Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Dear Anil, Hare Rama Krsna! Any idea about the year the Rama of this kalpa- 28th maha-yuga of 7th Manu- was born? Yours, Dhira Krsna dasa, Jyotisha http://www.radhadesh.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Jaya Jagannatha Dear Sanjayji, Skanda Purana Book III Brahma Khand Section II: Dharmaranya-Khand Chapter 30 Sloka 12. In the twenty-seventh year of Rama, even as the King was to crown him heir apparent to the throne, Kaikeyi requested him for two boons. Slokas 13 - 14. With one of them Rama accompanied by Sita and Laksmana was to go in exile wearing matted hair, for fourteen years* "May my Bharata be the heir apparent" was the seocnd boon. It was due to being deluded by Manthara's words that she chose this boon. _________ * Valmiki Ramayana II.11.26a - 27b states that Kaikeyi wanted only Rama to be banished. "may Rama be an ascetic in the Dandaka forest for fourteen years. Sita and Laksmana were not mentioned. I had a look at my copy of Tulasidas' Sri Ramacharitamanasa, and it does not state which age he went in exile. [Ram came to Nandigram on vaishakh shukl 6th and became king on next day. SEETA was 35 and RAM was 42 at that time.] This timing seems to be out of sync. Best regards, Swee swee (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net www.brihaspati.net Sanjay Rath wrote: om namo bhagavate mahämatsyäya Dear Sarabani, Swee & Anilkumar, can you check this from your skanda purana and give me the sanskrit sloka for it. Check specifically if it is 22nd year or 27th year for vanvas.This is crucial in evaluation of strengths and our understanding. I always thought Rama went in His 25th year (alternative-2) but maybe wrong and stand to be corrected. That is the spirit of truth in seeking the truth in Jyotish. We should not hesitate to admit mistakes and correct our understanding. Understanding the strengths in Moola dasa is very tough. According to me the calculations should be Alternative -1 Moon 10 years Jupiter 11 years ----------------------- 21 years Saturn 14 years (Vanvas) - 35 years Rajyoga 2 SUN coronation 36 year Now as per this the reding can be Alternative -2 Moon 10 years Jupiter 11 years ----------------------- 21 years Mars 3 --------------------------- 24 years Saturn 14 years (Vanvas) - 38 years Rajyoga 2 SUN coronation 40 year Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana) Moon 10 years Jupiter 11 years ----------------------- 21 years Mars 3 --------------------------- 24 years Sun 2 ---------------------------- 26 years Saturn 14 years (Vanvas) - 40 years Venus 12 52 year ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath --------------------------- H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India, +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com --------------------------- aokedia [anilkedia (AT) indiatimes (DOT) com] Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:40 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Dear Friends RAM KRISHN HARE >From SKAND PURAN(brahm khand-dharmarany mahatmy),here are some details about SHREE RAM In 27th year RAM went to forest and stayed at Panchvati for 12.5 years. On Magh krishn 8,Seeta-haran took place. SEETA remained separated from RAM for 14 months and 10 days. HANUMAN burned lanka on margshirsh shukla 13. RAM started on margshirsh krishn 8,exact mid-day in vijay muhurt. Vibhishan met RAM on paush shukl 4. Setu-bandhan started on 10th and completed in 4 days on paush shukl 14. War started on magh shukl 2 and lasted till chaitr krishn 14 for 87 days. Ram came to Nandigram on vaishakh shukl 6th and became king on next day. SEETA was 35 and RAM was 42 at that time. BTW, as per observed tradition,Ravan was killed on Vijya-dashmi and SHREE RAM returned back on Diwali. These festivals are selebrated to remember these events since that time and named after these events. Dash-hara and vijaya-dashmi both means defeat of Ravan and Victory of SHREE RAM. Similarly rows of oil lamps were made to selebrate HIS arrival and hence the name DEEPAVALI. Above details do not match with traditional one and hence they may not be for present kalp.There are many more details about some minor events which I have skipped. some of them do not have complete information. THANKS Anilkumar OM TAT SAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 Attachment: (image/bmp) gurunamah.bmp [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 Pranaam Sanjay, When we don't even know Sree Rama's chart for sure, how can we use his chart for correcting our understanding of Moola dasa? Genuine research into Moola dasa (or any other technique for that matter) is possible only using charts that we know are accurate. Thus the charts of Sree Rama and Sree Krishna are ruled out. We discussed this earlier. Valmiki mentioned that Sree Rama was born in Punarvasu nakshatra. In order to "fix" Sun in Aries, you take Moon in Pushyami and explain that "being born in Punarvasu nakshatra" can also mean lagna being in Punarvasu and not Moon. Your stand is a valid stand to take, but most definitely not unquestionable. For all you know, lord Rama's Sun could be in Pisces (if you take Moon in Punarvasu, Sun must be in Pisces on Sukla Navami tithi). The only thing we know for sure is that Cancer rose and lagna contained Moon and Jupiter. We also know that 5 planets were in exaltation (we can also interpret "swochcha" differently and say that 5 planets were in own or exaltation signs!). There are so many ways in which all the constraints given by Valmiki can be satisfied. There are many candidate charts. The chart you are using could certainly be wrong. BTW, why is Jupiter dasa for 11 years in the table below? I thought the correction was 6-1+1=6 years and the dasa was for 16-6=10 years. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Jaya Guru > Dear Swee thank you for the confirmation. Then the Alternative -3 is correct.> Narasimha I hope you are reading this. The strengths of the signs for Moola dasa need to be reworked. I have taught whatever I knew. Now a team should be formed to study this seriously and arrive at the most accurate method of determination of the strengths of the kendras for the dasa order. This is the most important area of research and is crucial as it brings out the suffering in life. Without being able to time the suffering we cannot time end of suffering or suggest remedy correctly. I suggest we form a team of five people for this.> 1. Narasimha - he has to be there as he alone can do the JHora changes and also is aware of whatever I have to teach in this regard. None have learnt more than him in this matter of Moola dasa.> 2. Swee Chan and/or Anil Kumar Kedia: To check the Purana and give the correct interretations and any help in Jyotish or spirituality related matter as Moola dasa has a strong spirituality basis.> 3. Two more volunteers needed. Narasimha has to approve his team finally.> Please consider this as a service to Sri Rama as your work shall help us to understand the Ramayana better.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- > > > Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana)> > Moon 10 years> Jupiter 11 years> -----------------------> 21 years> Mars 3> ---------------------------> 24 years> Sun 2> ----------------------------> 26 years> Saturn 14 years (Vanvas)> -> 40 years> Venus 12> > 52 year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 |Bhargodevaasya|Dear Narasimha, Namaste. If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role?Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Narasimha P.V.R. Rao vedic astrology Sunday, July 20, 2003 4:58 PM [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Pranaam Sanjay, When we don't even know Sree Rama's chart for sure, how can we use his chart for correcting our understanding of Moola dasa? Genuine research into Moola dasa (or any other technique for that matter) is possible only using charts that we know are accurate. Thus the charts of Sree Rama and Sree Krishna are ruled out. We discussed this earlier. Valmiki mentioned that Sree Rama was born in Punarvasu nakshatra. In order to "fix" Sun in Aries, you take Moon in Pushyami and explain that "being born in Punarvasu nakshatra" can also mean lagna being in Punarvasu and not Moon. Your stand is a valid stand to take, but most definitely not unquestionable. For all you know, lord Rama's Sun could be in Pisces (if you take Moon in Punarvasu, Sun must be in Pisces on Sukla Navami tithi). The only thing we know for sure is that Cancer rose and lagna contained Moon and Jupiter. We also know that 5 planets were in exaltation (we can also interpret "swochcha" differently and say that 5 planets were in own or exaltation signs!). There are so many ways in which all the constraints given by Valmiki can be satisfied. There are many candidate charts. The chart you are using could certainly be wrong. BTW, why is Jupiter dasa for 11 years in the table below? I thought the correction was 6-1+1=6 years and the dasa was for 16-6=10 years. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Jaya Guru > Dear Swee thank you for the confirmation. Then the Alternative -3 is correct.> Narasimha I hope you are reading this. The strengths of the signs for Moola dasa need to be reworked. I have taught whatever I knew. Now a team should be formed to study this seriously and arrive at the most accurate method of determination of the strengths of the kendras for the dasa order. This is the most important area of research and is crucial as it brings out the suffering in life. Without being able to time the suffering we cannot time end of suffering or suggest remedy correctly. I suggest we form a team of five people for this.> 1. Narasimha - he has to be there as he alone can do the JHora changes and also is aware of whatever I have to teach in this regard. None have learnt more than him in this matter of Moola dasa.> 2. Swee Chan and/or Anil Kumar Kedia: To check the Purana and give the correct interretations and any help in Jyotish or spirituality related matter as Moola dasa has a strong spirituality basis.> 3. Two more volunteers needed. Narasimha has to approve his team finally.> Please consider this as a service to Sri Rama as your work shall help us to understand the Ramayana better.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- > > > Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana)> > Moon 10 years> Jupiter 11 years> -----------------------> 21 years> Mars 3> ---------------------------> 24 years> Sun 2> ----------------------------> 26 years> Saturn 14 years (Vanvas)> -> 40 years> Venus 12> > 52 yearArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 Dear Visti, Namaste. Are we sure that it is AL that shows how a person is remembered long after his material existence? Or is it lagna or BL or something else? Is rasi chart the chart for it or is there another chart? Also, kindly show me a principle in classical literature that says that a fiery graha should occupy Devaamsa for a divinity. Also, can those who suggest that Rama did not have Moon in Punarvasu show another occasion where Sage Valmiki or Sage Vyasa mentioned lagna nakshatra of a native instead of Moon's nakshatra? Just because lagna nakshatra is stronger in a particular chart than Moon's nakshatra, would you mention lagna nakshatra as the native's nakshatra? If Utpanna tara is stronger than Janma tara, we use it in Vimsottari dasa. If somebody was born in Revathi and Utpanna tara (Rohini) is stronger and Vimsottari dasa starts from Rohini, will you say that the native was born in Rohini nakshatra? Not at all. We still say that the native was born in Revathi. Starting of dasas is different and birth nakshatra is different. Birth nakshatra is always taken as Moon's nakshatra. If you extend the definition to lagna nakshatra because it can be used in dasas, it can be extended to Utpanna tara too! If you disagree, show me another example from classics that mentions lagna nakshatra as the nakshatra of birth. If one thinks clearly and without any compromises, it becomes clear that Lord Rama's Moon must be in Punarvasu and Sun at the end of Pisces (perhaps as AK). In fact, it makes far more sense to me to see Sun in dharma sthana (9th) as AK, considering that Rama's aatma was from the solar form of Paramatma and also he stood for dharma. He is known for his dharma. Talking about Mars in a quadrant from AL, we don't even know Mars was really in Cp. These are all guesses by scholars. For all you know, the real Rama chart could have Moon and Jupiter in Cancer lagna, Saturn in 4th, exalted Ketu in 6th, Sun and Venus in 9th, Mars in 10th (in AL in Devaamsa), Mercury in 11th and Rahu in 12th. It still has 5 planets in exaltation signs (including nodes) as Valmiki wrote (moreover, Valmiki might've meant that 5 planets occupy own or exaltation signs, in which case there are many more possibilities). With the hypothetical chart I gave, Moon dasa and Jupiter dasa run till 20 years. Based on the second source of strength, Aries wins over Libra and 7-year Mars dasa runs from 20 years of age to 27 years. Mars in AL in fiery Aries made him kill a lot of demons. He also learnt about a lot of weapons from Viswamitra. Due to UL also being in Aries with Mars, Mars dasa gave wedding too. With Mars being in 10th house, Mars dasa gave the coronation plan too. But, 14-year Saturn dasa took him to forests for 14 years. The above is just one hypothetical example. One can come up with many such variations. Bottomline is that I (and some other scholars) will find it very very hard to believe that Valmiki would say Rama was born in Punarvasu if his Moon was in Pushyami. This makes Sun's placement in Aries look highly dubious. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > |Bhargodevaasya|> Dear Narasimha, Namaste.> If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role?> Best wishes> Visti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 respected gurus, we discussed sri rama's chart in sjc class in context to moola dasa, there were two curses, one was jupiters curse, secondary was moon's curse. jupiters curse as we all know was muni narda's curse. we could not think of any kind of moon's curse except suffering due to kaikayi's vars.but as know moola dasa gives u suffering due to past kramas & curses this explaination doesn't fit well. ramacharitmanas gives a clue about the second curse which was given by vrinda -jullandhar's wife to lord vishnu . param sati asuradhip nari/ tehi bal tahi na jitahi purari// chhal kari tarau tasu brat prabhu sur karaj kinh/ jab tehi janau tab shraap kop kari dinh// tasu shraap hari dinh pramaana / kautuknidhi kripaal bhagvaana// taha jullandhar ravan bhayaun / ran hati ram param pad dayau// baalkaand doha 123 when jullandhar could not b defeated by lord siva, lord vishnu helped lord siva , he knew that the demon's power is all because of his wife's satitva. so, he caused his wife's sheela- bhanga thru maya or chhala. soon after that lord shiva defeated jullandhar. then vrinda cursed lord vishnu, that he will suffer from his wife's separation . jullandhar in his next birth bcame ravana & abducted lord ram's wife. another pauranic story tells taht vrinda gave two curses. in addition to teh above one he cursed to b'come a stone. that's how he bcame slaigrama. this is a very popular one & a must to read during kartik mas. since vrinda was divine pativrata lady, that's how she is represented by a swagrahi moon in the chart. but then of course there was no motherly relation... o, shouln't she have been rather represented by venus ? after all, in the from of tulsi, she is considered as lord's wife. with regards prashant vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > > |Bhargodevaasya| > Dear Narasimha, Namaste. > If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role? > Best wishes > Visti > --- > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org > - > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > vedic astrology > Sunday, July 20, 2003 4:58 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM > > > Pranaam Sanjay, > > When we don't even know Sree Rama's chart for sure, how can we use his chart for correcting our understanding of Moola dasa? > > Genuine research into Moola dasa (or any other technique for that matter) is possible only using charts that we know are accurate. Thus the charts of Sree Rama and Sree Krishna are ruled out. > > We discussed this earlier. Valmiki mentioned that Sree Rama was born in Punarvasu nakshatra. In order to "fix" Sun in Aries, you take Moon in Pushyami and explain that "being born in Punarvasu nakshatra" can also mean lagna being in Punarvasu and not Moon. Your stand is a valid stand to take, but most definitely not unquestionable. For all you know, lord Rama's Sun could be in Pisces (if you take Moon in Punarvasu, Sun must be in Pisces on Sukla Navami tithi). The only thing we know for sure is that Cancer rose and lagna contained Moon and Jupiter. We also know that 5 planets were in exaltation (we can also interpret "swochcha" differently and say that 5 planets were in own or exaltation signs!). There are so many ways in which all the constraints given by Valmiki can be satisfied. There are many candidate charts. The chart you are using could certainly be wrong. > > BTW, why is Jupiter dasa for 11 years in the table below? I thought the correction was 6-1+1=6 years and the dasa was for 16- 6=10 years. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > > > Jaya Guru > > Dear Swee thank you for the confirmation. Then the Alternative -3 is correct. > > Narasimha I hope you are reading this. The strengths of the signs for Moola dasa need to be reworked. I have taught whatever I knew. Now a team should be formed to study this seriously and arrive at the most accurate method of determination of the strengths of the kendras for the dasa order. This is the most important area of research and is crucial as it brings out the suffering in life. Without being able to time the suffering we cannot time end of suffering or suggest remedy correctly. I suggest we form a team of five people for this. > > 1. Narasimha - he has to be there as he alone can do the JHora changes and also is aware of whatever I have to teach in this regard. None have learnt more than him in this matter of Moola dasa. > > 2. Swee Chan and/or Anil Kumar Kedia: To check the Purana and give the correct interretations and any help in Jyotish or spirituality related matter as Moola dasa has a strong spirituality basis. > > 3. Two more volunteers needed. Narasimha has to approve his team finally. > > Please consider this as a service to Sri Rama as your work shall help us to understand the Ramayana better. > > Yours truly, > > Sanjay Rath > > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > > ----~om tat sat~-------------- > > > > > > Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana) > > > > Moon 10 years > > Jupiter 11 years > > ----------------------- > > 21 years > > Mars 3 > > --------------------------- > > 24 years > > Sun 2 > > ---------------------------- > > 26 years > > Saturn 14 years (Vanvas) > > - > > 40 years > > Venus 12 > > > > 52 year > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 |Bhargodevaasya|Dear Narasimha, Namaste. 1. Both Lagna and Arudha Lagna have a say on ones fame - the latter more temporarily, and we're taught to see Moon & Jupiter with reference to these 2. Your inference about Bhava Lagna is interesting - please share your thoughts. As far as i understand, the Vargas will determine the extent of fame, i.e. Vaisheshikamsa's. I can't comment on D-108 thou - you may know more. 2. You misunderstood me; let me explain. Whenever we run around in the mundane world, we are bound to be associated with our Arudha. You gave the example once of Yuddhistir needing Shani strong in Kendra from Arudha Lagna. Hence the image one portrays to soceity is also indicated, and if its associated with divinity, the name must fall in a ShastyAmsa like Deva, making one associated with divinity. Now a fiery planet was my own inference due to the Rama Taraka Mantra; Ram Ramaaya Namah - Soo much Agni due to the 'Ra'-beeja. 3. I don't live in Treta Yuga, and hence don't understand the lingo used then. How can one be so vague in expressing that 5 planets were in Swa or Ucche Rasi's? To me that sounds too vague to be considered as a planetary combination. Its like saying that the Lagna was either Cancer or housing Moon. Similarly i can accept due to this that the reference to Nakshatra could just as well be Lagna instead of Moon.. this is the understanding then. In this day and age we refer to Nakshatra as that of Moon. Some even refer to Janma Rasi as that of Moon Rasi instead of Lagna these days. 4. The Atmakaraka - as we're taught, does not show the expansion of the Paramatma, as then the possibility of being the expansion of Ketu occurs, and this is not possible. Instead the Chara Atmakaraka shows the reason for ones birth. i.e. Why one has come back. You may infer that Sri Rama came back to establish Eka Patni Dharma (Venus Exalted in 9th). Keep in mind that the planets in trines shows the dharma we will follow in life. The Shakti the Paramatma merges with before entering this world is not indicated by the Chara Atmakaraka. 5. I like your Vimshottari Dasa test. Couldn't it have been drawn from Lagna? Also Tara Dasa is applicable when all Kendra's are occupied. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Narasimha P.V.R. Rao vedic astrology Sunday, July 20, 2003 6:57 PM [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Dear Visti, Namaste. Are we sure that it is AL that shows how a person is remembered long after his material existence? Or is it lagna or BL or something else? Is rasi chart the chart for it or is there another chart? Also, kindly show me a principle in classical literature that says that a fiery graha should occupy Devaamsa for a divinity. Also, can those who suggest that Rama did not have Moon in Punarvasu show another occasion where Sage Valmiki or Sage Vyasa mentioned lagna nakshatra of a native instead of Moon's nakshatra? Just because lagna nakshatra is stronger in a particular chart than Moon's nakshatra, would you mention lagna nakshatra as the native's nakshatra? If Utpanna tara is stronger than Janma tara, we use it in Vimsottari dasa. If somebody was born in Revathi and Utpanna tara (Rohini) is stronger and Vimsottari dasa starts from Rohini, will you say that the native was born in Rohini nakshatra? Not at all. We still say that the native was born in Revathi. Starting of dasas is different and birth nakshatra is different. Birth nakshatra is always taken as Moon's nakshatra. If you extend the definition to lagna nakshatra because it can be used in dasas, it can be extended to Utpanna tara too! If you disagree, show me another example from classics that mentions lagna nakshatra as the nakshatra of birth. If one thinks clearly and without any compromises, it becomes clear that Lord Rama's Moon must be in Punarvasu and Sun at the end of Pisces (perhaps as AK). In fact, it makes far more sense to me to see Sun in dharma sthana (9th) as AK, considering that Rama's aatma was from the solar form of Paramatma and also he stood for dharma. He is known for his dharma. Talking about Mars in a quadrant from AL, we don't even know Mars was really in Cp. These are all guesses by scholars. For all you know, the real Rama chart could have Moon and Jupiter in Cancer lagna, Saturn in 4th, exalted Ketu in 6th, Sun and Venus in 9th, Mars in 10th (in AL in Devaamsa), Mercury in 11th and Rahu in 12th. It still has 5 planets in exaltation signs (including nodes) as Valmiki wrote (moreover, Valmiki might've meant that 5 planets occupy own or exaltation signs, in which case there are many more possibilities). With the hypothetical chart I gave, Moon dasa and Jupiter dasa run till 20 years. Based on the second source of strength, Aries wins over Libra and 7-year Mars dasa runs from 20 years of age to 27 years. Mars in AL in fiery Aries made him kill a lot of demons. He also learnt about a lot of weapons from Viswamitra. Due to UL also being in Aries with Mars, Mars dasa gave wedding too. With Mars being in 10th house, Mars dasa gave the coronation plan too. But, 14-year Saturn dasa took him to forests for 14 years. The above is just one hypothetical example. One can come up with many such variations. Bottomline is that I (and some other scholars) will find it very very hard to believe that Valmiki would say Rama was born in Punarvasu if his Moon was in Pushyami. This makes Sun's placement in Aries look highly dubious. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > |Bhargodevaasya|> Dear Narasimha, Namaste.> If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role?> Best wishes> Visti Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 Dear Sanjay, If you say that there is no controversy in Rama's chart, I disagree. There is enough controversy. Most scholars actually believe that Moon is in Punarvasu nakshatra (unlike you). Still, some accept Sun in Aries not realizing that it is impossible for Sun to be in Aries on a Sukla Navami day with Moon in Punarvasu. I am not the first to question it. In fact, I understand some scholars actually have totally different versions of Rama's chart. The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so. If tradition cannot even accurately remember the chart of Krishna, who came to earth just 5,000 years back, how can we expect it to accurately remember the chart of Rama, who came here a couple of millions of years ago? Obviously, it was the guesswork of some scholar some while ago. Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life events. In Rama's case, one can take a chart one likes and justify it with extremely erudite interpretations. But it serves little purpose. We cannot get a "real" chart based on real planetary movements. In Krishna's case, we can do more thorough and conclusive research, because we can find "real" charts based on real planetary movements. In Rama's case, due to the lack of astrology software that computes Treta yuga charts, we cannot find the correct date and time. I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart. If a team wants to do research, Krishna's chart is definitely a better starting point. We can find the charts of Krishna, Arjuna, Dharmaraja, Bheema etc and explain all the events of Mahabharata. THAT is something we may be able to do in the next few decades. Rama...I doubt it. As for researching Moola dasa rules vs Narayana dasa rules, we can definitely do far more reliable research using the charts of normal 19th and 20th century people. I agree that it will be nice to explain all the events of Ramayana and Mahabharata. But, if we just "manufacture" highly scholarly and convincing-sounding explanations based on dubious data, it serves little purpose. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha PS: Whenever I do Satya Narayana vratam, I notice when invoking Nava Grahas that the mantras refer to the tithi and nakshatra of the birth of each planet. For example, Sun's mantra says he was born on Prabhava Maagha Sukla Saptami on a Sunday in Aswini nakshatra. Moon's mantra says he was born on Saumya Kaartika Pournimasya on a Monday in Krittika nakshatra. One wonders how the tithi at the birth of Sun or Moon is defined. It is defined based on the angle made by Sun and Moon at earth. How do you define it when one of them is born and the other is not yet born? Moreover, Sun was not born on earth. He was born somewhere in space. How do you define tithi and nakshatra for Sun's birth? PPS: You used the mantra "Jaya Guru" below. You told me never to place Devata in 6th. But this is a 2-4-6 mantra with Devata in 6th. Why? > Jaya Guru > Dear Narasimha> That is precisely the point. The research is to be done on various charts so that we can understand the chart of Sri Rama. All those issues about exaltation, debilitation, addition, loss of years, destruction of the nodes by Jupiter etc which I know and have told have to be examined w.r.t their relevance to the Moola dasa as it is very different from Narayana dasa. Can we adopt those rules or not is my question and this is where real work is required.> The nakshatra does not alter the sequence of Sri Rama's chart. this is the chart which has been used since ages and at least in this chart there has not been any controversy (unlike Krishna's chart where each parampara has it s own chart and yet they enjoy discussing about krishna's chart and try to understand Bhagavan). The point is that just learning Moola dasa is one thing - learning spirituaity with jyotish is another. Of what use is it to me to know that I will die...I already know it. The real flavor of Jyotish is in understanding Ramayana & the Mahabharata. The day SJC is able to explain every event astrologically , that day our mission would have been achieved. till then we struggle.> That is why I wanted to form a team to study this seriously. Please consider and start on an auspicious day. May He guide you.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Jaya Guru Dear Narasimha, Dear Sanjay, If you say that there is no controversy in Rama's chart, I disagree. There is enough controversy. Most scholars actually believe that Moon is in Punarvasu nakshatra (unlike you). Still, some accept Sun in Aries not realizing that it is impossible for Sun to be in Aries on a Sukla Navami day with Moon in Punarvasu. I am not the first to question it. In fact, I understand some scholars actually have totally different versions of Rama's chart. The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so.[s.Rath:] Oh yes there is now. In my early days of Jyotish at least this was not refuted. I don't know how people can take Sun in Aries and Moon in Punarvasu on navami. They must have failed all classes in mathematics. I use sun in Aries and Lagna in Punarvasu. In any case the basic planetary positions continue in the signs as is required for Moola dasa. If tradition cannot even accurately remember the chart of Krishna, who came to earth just 5,000 years back, how can we expect it to accurately remember the chart of Rama, who came here a couple of millions of years ago? Obviously, it was the guesswork of some scholar some while ago.[s.Rath:] There are different versions - you can see the comments of Dr.B.V.Raman on this where he has disagreed with his grandfather. Sometime back I posted the chart of Lord Narasimhadeva as well. So, the charts are there but is our level of Jyotish good enough to pick the right one and draw it? The level will increase provided we work towards the objective. Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life events.[s.Rath:] Problem is in the definition of the divisions - the devalokamsa etc definitions need real research work. Until refuted, the chart that I use is very similar to that of Dr.Raman and has so far explained all the events. Maybe it will improve as my understanding grows. In Rama's case, one can take a chart one likes and justify it with extremely erudite interpretations. But it serves little purpose. We cannot get a "real" chart based on real planetary movements. In Krishna's case, we can do more thorough and conclusive research, because we can find "real" charts based on real planetary movements. In Rama's case, due to the lack of astrology software that computes Treta yuga charts, we cannot find the correct date and time.[s.Rath:] Fine but then a chart is given. Why should I disbelieve the writings of Valmiki or any of the seers unless harder proof is available. I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart.[s.Rath:] We will see krishna's chart - the day we understand the meaning of the divisions..Rama's chart is a different issue and till I get something better than what is already available, i will use it. Maybe not for the research, but then after the research is done, we can use the information to check the extent to which the chart of Sri Rama is correct. If a team wants to do research, Krishna's chart is definitely a better starting point. We can find the charts of Krishna, Arjuna, Dharmaraja, Bheema etc and explain all the events of Mahabharata. THAT is something we may be able to do in the next few decades. Rama...I doubt it.[s.Rath:] No not now. We will be jumping - let us first fix the Moola dasa rules. Then we do research on the divisions and then we will come back to these charts. As for researching Moola dasa rules vs Narayana dasa rules, we can definitely do far more reliable research using the charts of normal 19th and 20th century people.[s.Rath:] Of course. Please start and list your team for this work. Members of these lists who are interested should send their names to you and you can choose the team. I agree that it will be nice to explain all the events of Ramayana and Mahabharata. But, if we just "manufacture" highly scholarly and convincing-sounding explanations based on dubious data, it serves little purpose.[s.Rath:] Yes thats right. So lets try to approach this systematically. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha PS: Whenever I do Satya Narayana vratam, I notice when invoking Nava Grahas that the mantras refer to the tithi and nakshatra of the birth of each planet. For example, Sun's mantra says he was born on Prabhava Maagha Sukla Saptami on a Sunday in Aswini nakshatra. Moon's mantra says he was born on Saumya Kaartika Pournimasya on a Monday in Krittika nakshatra. One wonders how the tithi at the birth of Sun or Moon is defined. It is defined based on the angle made by Sun and Moon at earth. How do you define it when one of them is born and the other is not yet born? Moreover, Sun was not born on earth. He was born somewhere in space. How do you define tithi and nakshatra for Sun's birth?[s.Rath:] This is listed as partof the basic information for the planets. What you write for the Sun is different from my list. Sun was born in Kalinga in Kashyapa gotra, saptami tithi, Dhanistha naksatra, Kshyatriya Jaati, Rakta varna. He was seated in the middle of the graha mandala (madhya) and has two hands holding padma astra, adorned with rakta chandana gandha, kaniara flowers, rakta mala, rakta vastra. His abhushana is the kirita and his chariot has 7 horses. Shiva is pratyadhi and Agni is adhi devata; He rules the Kapila mukha of Agni, and faces east (purva mukha), while his drishti is upwards (urdhva dristi). His body is made of copper and he like gugula dhupa, manikya (ruby) ratna, foods of jagerry (Bali karma). Arka wood samhita is used for his mantras in yagya and his tapas sankhya is 6000 ...fruits etc etc.. this is a very long list. Don't you all know all this? Its basics. PPS: You used the mantra "Jaya Guru" below. You told me never to place Devata in 6th. But this is a 2-4-6 mantra with Devata in 6th. Why?[s.Rath:] This is not a mantra. It is a way of initiating writing which should be initiated after Narayanam namaskritya...etc. Always start writing after bowing to the guru with Jaya vani. Others use 'shri' which is the guru bija. Yours truly, Sanjay Rath Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India E-mail: srath (AT) srath (DOT) com srath (AT) vsnl (DOT) com daivagyna (AT) sify (DOT) com Web: http://srath.com http://.org ----~om tat sat~-------------- > Jaya Guru > Dear Narasimha> That is precisely the point. The research is to be done on various charts so that we can understand the chart of Sri Rama. All those issues about exaltation, debilitation, addition, loss of years, destruction of the nodes by Jupiter etc which I know and have told have to be examined w.r.t their relevance to the Moola dasa as it is very different from Narayana dasa. Can we adopt those rules or not is my question and this is where real work is required.> The nakshatra does not alter the sequence of Sri Rama's chart. this is the chart which has been used since ages and at least in this chart there has not been any controversy (unlike Krishna's chart where each parampara has it s own chart and yet they enjoy discussing about krishna's chart and try to understand Bhagavan). The point is that just learning Moola dasa is one thing - learning spirituaity with jyotish is another. Of what use is it to me to know that I will die...I already know it. The real flavor of Jyotish is in understanding Ramayana & the Mahabharata. The day SJC is able to explain every event astrologically , that day our mission would have been achieved. till then we struggle.> That is why I wanted to form a team to study this seriously. Please consider and start on an auspicious day. May He guide you.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Attachment: [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Dear Sanjayji and Narashimha Raoji, I am not one who is an expert in ganita part of astrology, but does this matter relate in anyway to the matter of krantipata being in Vaisakha in ancient times and now happening 20days earlier? I understand that it shifts earleir at the rate of 50 Vikala per year. Or does this have to do anything with the ancient practice of rationalising Saura and Chandramaas every five years in ancient times? Would there be a posibility of such situation arising if the Sayana sun position is reffered by the sages?Of course the mathematics applied today cannot give Punarvasu Moon and Aries Sun at Shukla Navami is just not possible. I am certain you will forgive me if I have put up irrelevant query. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath [daivagyna (AT) sify (DOT) com]Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:06 PMvedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Jaya Guru Dear Narasimha, Dear Sanjay, If you say that there is no controversy in Rama's chart, I disagree. There is enough controversy. Most scholars actually believe that Moon is in Punarvasu nakshatra (unlike you). Still, some accept Sun in Aries not realizing that it is impossible for Sun to be in Aries on a Sukla Navami day with Moon in Punarvasu. I am not the first to question it. In fact, I understand some scholars actually have totally different versions of Rama's chart. The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so.[s.Rath:] Oh yes there is now. In my early days of Jyotish at least this was not refuted. I don't know how people can take Sun in Aries and Moon in Punarvasu on navami. They must have failed all classes in mathematics. I use sun in Aries and Lagna in Punarvasu. In any case the basic planetary positions continue in the signs as is required for Moola dasa. If tradition cannot even accurately remember the chart of Krishna, who came to earth just 5,000 years back, how can we expect it to accurately remember the chart of Rama, who came here a couple of millions of years ago? Obviously, it was the guesswork of some scholar some while ago.[s.Rath:] There are different versions - you can see the comments of Dr.B.V.Raman on this where he has disagreed with his grandfather. Sometime back I posted the chart of Lord Narasimhadeva as well. So, the charts are there but is our level of Jyotish good enough to pick the right one and draw it? The level will increase provided we work towards the objective. Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life events.[s.Rath:] Problem is in the definition of the divisions - the devalokamsa etc definitions need real research work. Until refuted, the chart that I use is very similar to that of Dr.Raman and has so far explained all the events. Maybe it will improve as my understanding grows. In Rama's case, one can take a chart one likes and justify it with extremely erudite interpretations. But it serves little purpose. We cannot get a "real" chart based on real planetary movements. In Krishna's case, we can do more thorough and conclusive research, because we can find "real" charts based on real planetary movements. In Rama's case, due to the lack of astrology software that computes Treta yuga charts, we cannot find the correct date and time.[s.Rath:] Fine but then a chart is given. Why should I disbelieve the writings of Valmiki or any of the seers unless harder proof is available. I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart.[s.Rath:] We will see krishna's chart - the day we understand the meaning of the divisions..Rama's chart is a different issue and till I get something better than what is already available, i will use it. Maybe not for the research, but then after the research is done, we can use the information to check the extent to which the chart of Sri Rama is correct. If a team wants to do research, Krishna's chart is definitely a better starting point. We can find the charts of Krishna, Arjuna, Dharmaraja, Bheema etc and explain all the events of Mahabharata. THAT is something we may be able to do in the next few decades. Rama...I doubt it.[s.Rath:] No not now. We will be jumping - let us first fix the Moola dasa rules. Then we do research on the divisions and then we will come back to these charts. As for researching Moola dasa rules vs Narayana dasa rules, we can definitely do far more reliable research using the charts of normal 19th and 20th century people.[s.Rath:] Of course. Please start and list your team for this work. Members of these lists who are interested should send their names to you and you can choose the team. I agree that it will be nice to explain all the events of Ramayana and Mahabharata. But, if we just "manufacture" highly scholarly and convincing-sounding explanations based on dubious data, it serves little purpose.[s.Rath:] Yes thats right. So lets try to approach this systematically. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha PS: Whenever I do Satya Narayana vratam, I notice when invoking Nava Grahas that the mantras refer to the tithi and nakshatra of the birth of each planet. For example, Sun's mantra says he was born on Prabhava Maagha Sukla Saptami on a Sunday in Aswini nakshatra. Moon's mantra says he was born on Saumya Kaartika Pournimasya on a Monday in Krittika nakshatra. One wonders how the tithi at the birth of Sun or Moon is defined. It is defined based on the angle made by Sun and Moon at earth. How do you define it when one of them is born and the other is not yet born? Moreover, Sun was not born on earth. He was born somewhere in space. How do you define tithi and nakshatra for Sun's birth?[s.Rath:] This is listed as partof the basic information for the planets. What you write for the Sun is different from my list. Sun was born in Kalinga in Kashyapa gotra, saptami tithi, Dhanistha naksatra, Kshyatriya Jaati, Rakta varna. He was seated in the middle of the graha mandala (madhya) and has two hands holding padma astra, adorned with rakta chandana gandha, kaniara flowers, rakta mala, rakta vastra. His abhushana is the kirita and his chariot has 7 horses. Shiva is pratyadhi and Agni is adhi devata; He rules the Kapila mukha of Agni, and faces east (purva mukha), while his drishti is upwards (urdhva dristi). His body is made of copper and he like gugula dhupa, manikya (ruby) ratna, foods of jagerry (Bali karma). Arka wood samhita is used for his mantras in yagya and his tapas sankhya is 6000 ...fruits etc etc.. this is a very long list. Don't you all know all this? Its basics. PPS: You used the mantra "Jaya Guru" below. You told me never to place Devata in 6th. But this is a 2-4-6 mantra with Devata in 6th. Why?[s.Rath:] This is not a mantra. It is a way of initiating writing which should be initiated after Narayanam namaskritya...etc. Always start writing after bowing to the guru with Jaya vani. Others use 'shri' which is the guru bija. Yours truly, Sanjay Rath Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India E-mail: srath (AT) srath (DOT) com srath (AT) vsnl (DOT) com daivagyna (AT) sify (DOT) com Web: http://srath.com http://.org ----~om tat sat~-------------- > Jaya Guru > Dear Narasimha> That is precisely the point. The research is to be done on various charts so that we can understand the chart of Sri Rama. All those issues about exaltation, debilitation, addition, loss of years, destruction of the nodes by Jupiter etc which I know and have told have to be examined w.r.t their relevance to the Moola dasa as it is very different from Narayana dasa. Can we adopt those rules or not is my question and this is where real work is required.> The nakshatra does not alter the sequence of Sri Rama's chart. this is the chart which has been used since ages and at least in this chart there has not been any controversy (unlike Krishna's chart where each parampara has it s own chart and yet they enjoy discussing about krishna's chart and try to understand Bhagavan). The point is that just learning Moola dasa is one thing - learning spirituaity with jyotish is another. Of what use is it to me to know that I will die...I already know it. The real flavor of Jyotish is in understanding Ramayana & the Mahabharata. The day SJC is able to explain every event astrologically , that day our mission would have been achieved. till then we struggle.> That is why I wanted to form a team to study this seriously. Please consider and start on an auspicious day. May He guide you.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Attachment: (image/bmp) gurunamah.bmp [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Namaste Chandrashekhar ji, The tithi does not depend on the kranthi. Tithi does not depend on ayanamsa also. As long as you take Sun's and Moon's positions using the same ayanamsa, the tithi is the same. Regarding Sun's position, Sage Valmiki never specifically mentioned Sun's position. He only said that the nakshatra was Punarvasu, tithi was Chaitra Sukla Navami, Cancer was rising with Moon and Jupiter in it, and five planets were in "swochha" rasis. Swochcha (swa+uchcha) rasis can mean "own exaltation signs", i.e. simply exaltation signs (as interpreted commonly). This requires five planets to be exalted and so people think that Sun has to be one of the five planets (because they know that Moon is not exalted and both Venus and Mercury cannot be exalted together - BTW, this assumption may or may not be true in Treta yuga. I have to do some math to verify). Thus people concluded that Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn must be exalted. That is how they came up with the chart we know today. People don't recognize the possibility of Rahu and Ketu being two of the five exalted planets! That opens up more possibilities. Also, swochcha can mean swa or uchcha (own or exaltation) rasis. That means 3 planets can be in exaltation signs and 2 in own signs, for example. This opens up many more possibilities. One can also suggest that the Sage mixed nirayana positions with sayana positions and arrived at five planets. I don't buy that logic. I honestly don't think that the chart many use for Rama today is right. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Dear Sanjayji and Narashimha Raoji,> I am not one who is an expert in ganita part of astrology, but does this> matter relate in anyway to the matter of krantipata being in Vaisakha in> ancient times and now happening 20days earlier? I understand that it shifts> earleir at the rate of 50 Vikala per year. Or does this have to do anything> with the ancient practice of rationalising Saura and Chandramaas every five> years in ancient times? Would there be a posibility of such situation> arising if the Sayana sun position is reffered by the sages?Of course the> mathematics applied today cannot give Punarvasu Moon and Aries Sun at Shukla> Navami is just not possible.> I am certain you will forgive me if I have put up irrelevant query.> Regards,> Chandrashekhar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Pranaam Sanjay, > The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy > in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so.> [s.Rath:] Oh yes there is now. In my early days of Jyotish > at least this was not refuted. I don't know how people can take > Sun in Aries and Moon in Punarvasu on navami. They must have > failed all classes in mathematics. Or they must have not paid attention. The latter is more like it. > I use sun in Aries and Lagna in Punarvasu. For Lakshmana, Bharata etc, Valmiki mentioned Chandra nakshatra as the nakshatra. Why did he mention lagna nakshatra as the birth nakshatra only for Rama? Can you mention any other occasions when Valmiki or Vyasa mentioned lagna nakshatra as somebody's birth nakshatra? Would you say that you were born in Uttarabhadra nakshatra because your lagna in Pisces is stronger than your Moon in Aquarius? When your grandfather wrote your horoscope, did he write Uttarabhadra as your nakshatra? Whenever your grandfather got poojas performed at temples in your name, did he say "Uttarabhadra nakshatra jaatasya" regarding your nakshatra? > In any case the basic planetary positions continue > in the signs as is required for Moola dasa. Nope. If Sun goes to Pisces, it changes Moola dasa. If we take the position that five planets must be in exaltation, we will now have to compensate for Sun's non-exaltation by placing both the nodes in exaltation. That means another planet out of Venus, Saturn and Mars is not exalted (because Jupiter and nodes take 3 out of 5 slots). All this changes Moola dasa calculations considerably. > Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact > date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a > hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life > events.> [s.Rath:] Problem is in the definition of the divisions - the > devalokamsa etc definitions need real research work. Until refuted, Yes, but Krishna's is the only chart that promises genuine research and real results. In the case of Ramachandra, Narasimhadeva etc, one can construct any chart, give erudite explanations and be satisfied. There is no pudding and hence no proof. If you think research into Krishna's chart is a long shot, research into the charts of previous avataras is a much much much much longer shot. Here I am not referring to being satisfied with a hypothetical chart constructed by someone in the past. > the chart that I use is very similar to that of Dr.Raman and has so far > explained all the events. Maybe it will improve as my understanding > grows. I always look at the expression "explained all the events" with suspicion. It's a funny expression. You know better than hiding behind such an expression. I don't know the correct chart, but I guarantee you that the chart used by Dr. Raman cannot be the one. Whatever definition you use for Devalokamsa etc, you cannot get two raja yoga giving planets in Devalokamsa with that chart. It is certainly not the right chart. > [s.Rath:] No not now. We will be jumping - let us first fix the Moola > dasa rules. Then we do research on the divisions and then we will come > back to these charts. I re-iterate my stand. It is unwise to use Rama's hypothetical chart to "fix" Moola dasa rules. One should not over-react to criticism of some mistakes one made. If you want to fine-tune Moola dasa rules, use normal 19th and 20th century charts. > [s.Rath:] Fine but then a chart is given. Why should I disbelieve the > writings of Valmiki or any of the seers unless harder proof is available. This is very unfair, Sanjay. In order to undermine the argument of the other person, you are trying to put (hijack) the weight of Valmiki behind your position. How can anyone say that my position amounts to "disbelieving" Valmiki? Please realize that Valmiki did not give the chart you are using. Somebody else gave it. Valmiki only said that the tithi was Chaitra Sukla Navami, nakshatra (Moon's, by default) was Punarvasu, rising sign was Cancer with Moon and Jupiter in it, and, five planets were in "swochcha" rasis. He never gave any chart. In fact, please quote me the name of a seer who clearly gave the chart you are using. > [s.Rath:] This is listed as partof the basic information for the planets. > What you write for the Sun is different from my list. Sun was born in > Kalinga in Kashyapa gotra, saptami tithi, Dhanistha naksatra, Kshyatriya > Jaati, Rakta varna. He was seated in the middle of the graha mandala > (madhya) and has two hands holding padma astra, adorned with rakta > chandana gandha, kaniara flowers, rakta mala, rakta vastra. His > abhushana is the kirita and his chariot has 7 horses. Shiva is pratyadhi > and Agni is adhi devata; He rules the Kapila mukha of Agni, and faces > east (purva mukha), while his drishti is upwards (urdhva dristi). His > body is made of copper and he like gugula dhupa, manikya (ruby) > ratna, foods of jagerry (Bali karma). Arka wood samhita is used for his > mantras in yagya and his tapas sankhya is 6000 ...fruits etc etc.. this > is a very long list. Don't you all know all this? Its basics. Yes, it's basics and the invocation mantra I was referring to actually covers most of the things you mentioned. I did not mention the whole mantra and mentioned only the part related to tithi and nakshatra of Sun's birth. It is intersting to know that there are different versions of birthdata. Anyway, my curiosity was regarding the definition of tithi and nakshatra at the birth of Sun and Moon. You haven't said anything regarding that! May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Dear Narasimha raoji, I have not suggested that the chart is right. I was only trying to find out the mathematical possibility that it might be right. So with Sayana Sun ,is it likely that Moon and Sun can be squaring each other with Moon in Punarvasu? I asked this to increase my own knowledge about Ganita. I remember having read somewhere that in times by gone Aries fell in a different nakshtra than that indicated in modern times, and as you are an expert in ganita skanda, I asked the query. If you want my personal opinion, the posibility of Sun being in 9th in Prabhu Rama's chart is more likely based on ramayana. But this is my personal opinion and could be wrong.Kindly elaborate about different Nakshtra falling in ancient times than in modern times, is this information correct? Regards, Chandrashekhar. Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net]Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:37 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Namaste Chandrashekhar ji, The tithi does not depend on the kranthi. Tithi does not depend on ayanamsa also. As long as you take Sun's and Moon's positions using the same ayanamsa, the tithi is the same. Regarding Sun's position, Sage Valmiki never specifically mentioned Sun's position. He only said that the nakshatra was Punarvasu, tithi was Chaitra Sukla Navami, Cancer was rising with Moon and Jupiter in it, and five planets were in "swochha" rasis. Swochcha (swa+uchcha) rasis can mean "own exaltation signs", i.e. simply exaltation signs (as interpreted commonly). This requires five planets to be exalted and so people think that Sun has to be one of the five planets (because they know that Moon is not exalted and both Venus and Mercury cannot be exalted together - BTW, this assumption may or may not be true in Treta yuga. I have to do some math to verify). Thus people concluded that Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn must be exalted. That is how they came up with the chart we know today. People don't recognize the possibility of Rahu and Ketu being two of the five exalted planets! That opens up more possibilities. Also, swochcha can mean swa or uchcha (own or exaltation) rasis. That means 3 planets can be in exaltation signs and 2 in own signs, for example. This opens up many more possibilities. One can also suggest that the Sage mixed nirayana positions with sayana positions and arrived at five planets. I don't buy that logic. I honestly don't think that the chart many use for Rama today is right. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Dear Sanjayji and Narashimha Raoji,> I am not one who is an expert in ganita part of astrology, but does this> matter relate in anyway to the matter of krantipata being in Vaisakha in> ancient times and now happening 20days earlier? I understand that it shifts> earleir at the rate of 50 Vikala per year. Or does this have to do anything> with the ancient practice of rationalising Saura and Chandramaas every five> years in ancient times? Would there be a posibility of such situation> arising if the Sayana sun position is reffered by the sages?Of course the> mathematics applied today cannot give Punarvasu Moon and Aries Sun at Shukla> Navami is just not possible.> I am certain you will forgive me if I have put up irrelevant query.> Regards,> Chandrashekhar.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Dear Sanjay and Narasimha, Hare Rama Krsna! > I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this >lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart. Some additional info that might help in finding Krsna's chart I took from the Bible. In the chronology described in my school-Bible, it gives dates of the deluge, which happened roundabout 2200 BC, and it describes the arrival of Abraham, one of the descendants of Noach, who alone survived the great deluge. The Bible describes the longevity of Noach as 950 years, and he lived for 350 years after the great deluge. His sons also became about 800-900 years, then gradually and very quickly the descendants became more or less 700, 600, 400, 200, and lastly Abraham still became about 200 years, but others of his sons reached only to about 120-150 years. It is clear that the sandhya between dwapara and kali-yuga took place here around this timing in history, and that longevity in dwapara yuga was 1000 years. I don't see any reason why this part of Bible would be corrupted, since it is part of old Testament, and part of Jewish tradition, having little to do with modern Christian Church, who merely changed things in New Testament, describing the life of Jesus. So I believe that we have to look around this time of about 1900-1800 BC to find Lord Krishna's chart, since He lived a life of 125 years and is said to have appeared at the sandhya between Dwapara and Kali-yuga. Yours, Dhira Krsna dasa, Jyotisha http://www.radhadesh.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 |Daxinamurtaaye Namah|Dear Dhira, As much as i like your references to the Old Testament, the problem also lies in the definition of 'normal' lifespan. As you allready know, the lifespan of a Rishi/Saint is well beyond that of a normal mortal. So watch out and check whose lifespan your commenting on. Then we also have the paradox of why Sri Krishna only 'decided' to live for 125 years. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Dhira Krsna BCS vedic astrology Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:58 PM [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Dear Sanjay and Narasimha,Hare Rama Krsna!> I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this>lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart.Some additional info that might help in finding Krsna's chart I took fromthe Bible. In the chronology described in my school-Bible, it gives datesof the deluge, which happened roundabout 2200 BC, and it describes thearrival of Abraham, one of the descendants of Noach, who alone survivedthe great deluge. The Bible describes the longevity of Noach as 950 years,and he lived for 350 years after the great deluge. His sons also becameabout 800-900 years, then gradually and very quickly the descendantsbecame more or less 700, 600, 400, 200, and lastly Abraham still becameabout 200 years, but others of his sons reached only to about 120-150years. It is clear that the sandhya between dwapara and kali-yuga tookplace here around this timing in history, and that longevity in dwaparayuga was 1000 years.I don't see any reason why this part of Bible would be corrupted, since itis part of old Testament, and part of Jewish tradition, having little todo with modern Christian Church, who merely changed things in NewTestament, describing the life of Jesus. So I believe that we have to lookaround this time of about 1900-1800 BC to find Lord Krishna's chart, sinceHe lived a life of 125 years and is said to have appeared at the sandhyabetween Dwapara and Kali-yuga.Yours,Dhira Krsna dasa,Jyotishahttp://www.radhadesh.comArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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