Thumb rules on debilitation & retrograde and SJC methodology

[Guest guest]

My post was regarding Imrans's post where he wrote:

 

Once Sanjay Rath told on discussing the matter of Debilitation and

Retrogression, that,

 

<b> 1) If natural benefics in quadrant or trine when retrograde and

debiliated are curse from past birth.

2) Natural malefics in quadrant or trine when retrograde and

debiliated are a blessing from past birth.

But opposite occurs in dushtana bhavas </b>

 

vedic astrology, "schinnas" <schinnas>

wrote:

> Has any statistical study been done to validate that concept that

is

> attributed to Sanjay ji?

>

> I know one chart that has a debilated benefic (Guru) in dusthana

> (12th) and it has proven to be a curse for the native. The V dasa

of

> Guru was the WORST in terms of all matters associated with Guru

and

> in matters of the houses that Guru lords in the native's horoscope.

>

> I dont have permission of the native to put her horoscope online

or

> discuss the issues. Moreover, I am yet to find one chart that

proves

> the theory mentioned. The only chart I found disproves the theory.

I

> know that one chart doesnt constitute any statistical merit, but I

> would like to know whether any statistical study has been done on

> such thumb rules.

>

> I have respect for Sanjay ji, but all astrological theories and

> thumb rules need to be subjected to reasonable statistical test

and

> must be accepted if and only if they work on majority of cases.

>

> Some might argue for validity of thumbrules based on some assumed

> theoretical reasoning (based on what they assume to be the reason

> why a planet is retrograde or debilitated in someone's char), but

> what use is theoretical reasoning if such thumb rules fails

> miserably in practise?

>

> I know it is taboo to discuss about other astrologers. However, I

> admire some astrological schools (esp. Sri. K. N. Rao) for

> periodically testing validity of thumb rules on hundreds of random

> horoscopes and publishing the results. I wish SJC methodology

> involves more statistical analysis rather than relying fully on

> theoretical logic, which may not be correct at all times. SJC

>

> We all know SJC under Jyotish gurus such as Sri. Sanjay, Sri. PVR,

> etc., does tremendous work in spread of jyotish, but it is my

> opinion that not all of its principles are fully tested and

> validated before it is taught to hundreds of students.

>

> If people want to call jyotish a science, then such rules of

jyotish

> must be subjectable to statistical and probablistic tests.

>

> Please understand that this is just my humble opinion.

>

> Thanks,

> -Siva.

[Guest guest]

|| Om Gurave Namah ||

Dear Siva,

Yes ofcourse one has to apply all principles intelligently. I dont

think that SriJagannath Center encourages applying principles

blindly. One has to test the principles on many chart to really

understand what Maharishis mean in their classics.

As for this principle, I found another chart which could be used for

your research. The chart is of Princess of Wales ,she died on Sunday,

31 August 1997 in Jupiter-Rahu-Rahu.

 

Warm Regards

S. Prabhakaran

 

 

--

These calculations were made using the free "Jagannatha Hora Lite"

software, which can be downloaded from the website of its author

P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (www.VedicAstrologer.org) or from the website

of Sri Jagannath Centre (www.SriJagannath.org).

--

 

Princess Diana

 

Natal Chart

 

July 1, 1961

Time: 13:10:00

Time Zone: 0:00:00 (West of GMT)

Place: 0 W 10' 00", 51 N 30' 00"

Altitude: 0.00 meters

 

Lunar Yr-Mo: Plava - Nija Jyeshtha

Tithi: Krishna Chaturthi (Me) (48.63% left)

Vedic Weekday: Saturday (Sa)

Nakshatra: Dhanishtha (Ma) (62.79% left)

Yoga: Priti (Me)

Karana: Balava (Mo)

Hora Lord: Mars (5 min sign: Aq)

Mahakala Hora: Saturn (5 min sign: Pi)

Kaala Lord: Mercury (Mahakala: Mars)

 

Sunrise: 3:53:07

Sunset: 20:15:04

Janma Ghatis: 23.2033

 

Ayanamsa: 23-19-00.79

Sidereal Time: 7:46:43

 

Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa

 

Lagna 25 Vi 28' 15.90" Chit 1 Vi Le

Sun - BK 16 Ge 07' 48.05" Ardr 3 Ge Aq

Moon - AK 28 Cp 17' 41.71" Dhan 2 Cp Vi

Mars - PK 8 Le 11' 54.06" Makh 3 Le Ge

Mercury ® - PiK 9 Ge 59' 46.10" Ardr 1 Ge Sg

Jupiter ® - MK 11 Cp 48' 06.54" Srav 1 Cp Ar

Venus - DK 0 Ta 50' 59.20" Krit 2 Ta Cp

Saturn ® - GK 4 Cp 30' 33.78" USha 3 Cp Aq

Rahu - AmK 6 Le 24' 42.93" Makh 2 Le Ta

Ketu 6 Aq 24' 42.93" Dhan 4 Aq Sc

Maandi 27 Ge 38' 46.51" Puna 3 Ge Ge

Gulika 15 Ge 29' 51.90" Ardr 3 Ge Aq

Bhava Lagna 4 Sc 58' 51.81" Anu 1 Sc Le

Hora Lagna 24 Pi 12' 02.49" Reva 3 Pi Aq

Ghati Lagna 21 Ta 51' 34.53" Rohi 4 Ta Cn

Vighati Lagna 10 Pi 09' 14.74" UBha 3 Pi Li

Varnada Lagna 19 Vi 40' 18.39" Hast 3 Vi Ge

Sree Lagna 9 Aq 26' 02.09" Sata 1 Aq Sg

Dhooma 29 Li 27' 48.05" Visa 3 Li Ge

Vyatipata 0 Vi 32' 11.95" UPha 2 Vi Cp

Parivesha 0 Pi 32' 11.95" PBha 4 Pi Cn

Indra Chapa 29 Ar 27' 48.05" Krit 1 Ar Sg

Upaketu 16 Ta 07' 48.05" Rohi 2 Ta Ta

Kaala 11 Le 21' 59.34" Makh 4 Le Cn

Mrityu 24 Vi 40' 21.14" Chit 1 Vi Le

Artha Prahara 16 Li 11' 38.50" Swat 3 Li Aq

Yama Ghantaka 7 Sc 58' 51.76" Anu 2 Sc Vi

 

\ | | /

\ | | /

\ GL | | /

\ | | /

Su \ Ve | | HL / Ke

\ | | /

MeR Md \ | | /

Gk \ | | /

----------------+---------------+----------------

| |

| | Mo JuR

| | SaR

| Rasi |

| |

| |

| |

----------------+---------------+----------------

/ | | \

Ra / | | \

/ | | \

Ma / As | | \ AL

/ | | \

/ | | \

/ | | \

/ | | \

 

\ | | /

\ | | /

\ AL | JuR | /

\ | | /

Ma \ Ra | | / Su

\ | | /

Md \ | | / HL SaR

\ | | / Gk

----------------+---------------+----------------

| |

GL | | Ve

| |

| Navamsa |

| |

| |

| |

----------------+---------------+----------------

/ | | \

/ | | \

/ | | \

As / Mo | | Ke \ MeR

/ | | \

/ | | \

/ | | \

/ | | \

 

Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

 

Mars Mars 1958-11-24 Rah 1959-04-19 Jup 1960-05-07

Sat 1961-04-12 Merc 1962-05-23 Ket 1963-05-20

Ven 1963-10-19 Sun 1964-12-17 Moon 1965-04-22

Rah Rah 1965-11-24 Jup 1968-08-06 Sat 1970-12-29

Merc 1973-11-06 Ket 1976-05-22 Ven 1977-06-10

Sun 1980-06-10 Moon 1981-05-04 Mars 1982-11-06

Jup Jup 1983-11-24 Sat 1986-01-10 Merc 1988-07-24

Ket 1990-10-31 Ven 1991-10-07 Sun 1994-06-05

Moon 1995-03-23 Mars 1996-07-24 Rah 1997-06-29

Sat Sat 1999-11-24 Merc 2002-11-27 Ket 2005-08-06

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "schinnas" <schinnas>

wrote:

> My post was regarding Imrans's post where he wrote:

>

> Once Sanjay Rath told on discussing the matter of Debilitation and

> Retrogression, that,

>

> <b> 1) If natural benefics in quadrant or trine when retrograde and

> debiliated are curse from past birth.

> 2) Natural malefics in quadrant or trine when retrograde and

> debiliated are a blessing from past birth.

> But opposite occurs in dushtana bhavas </b>

>

> vedic astrology, "schinnas" <schinnas>

> wrote:

> > Has any statistical study been done to validate that concept that

> is

> > attributed to Sanjay ji?

> >

> > I know one chart that has a debilated benefic (Guru) in dusthana

> > (12th) and it has proven to be a curse for the native. The V dasa

> of

> > Guru was the WORST in terms of all matters associated with Guru

> and

> > in matters of the houses that Guru lords in the native's

horoscope.

> >

> > I dont have permission of the native to put her horoscope online

> or

> > discuss the issues. Moreover, I am yet to find one chart that

> proves

> > the theory mentioned. The only chart I found disproves the

theory.

> I

> > know that one chart doesnt constitute any statistical merit, but

I

> > would like to know whether any statistical study has been done on

> > such thumb rules.

> >

> > I have respect for Sanjay ji, but all astrological theories and

> > thumb rules need to be subjected to reasonable statistical test

> and

> > must be accepted if and only if they work on majority of cases.

> >

> > Some might argue for validity of thumbrules based on some assumed

> > theoretical reasoning (based on what they assume to be the reason

> > why a planet is retrograde or debilitated in someone's char), but

> > what use is theoretical reasoning if such thumb rules fails

> > miserably in practise?

> >

> > I know it is taboo to discuss about other astrologers. However, I

> > admire some astrological schools (esp. Sri. K. N. Rao) for

> > periodically testing validity of thumb rules on hundreds of

random

> > horoscopes and publishing the results. I wish SJC methodology

> > involves more statistical analysis rather than relying fully on

> > theoretical logic, which may not be correct at all times. SJC

> >

> > We all know SJC under Jyotish gurus such as Sri. Sanjay, Sri.

PVR,

> > etc., does tremendous work in spread of jyotish, but it is my

> > opinion that not all of its principles are fully tested and

> > validated before it is taught to hundreds of students.

> >

> > If people want to call jyotish a science, then such rules of

> jyotish

> > must be subjectable to statistical and probablistic tests.

> >

> > Please understand that this is just my humble opinion.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > -Siva.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shiva,

While I agree that periodical testing has to be done, it is also necessary to

understand basic concepts of Jyotish before applying them to charts. For

example Guru could be in 12th in debilitation in case of Aquarius Lagna where

he is also lord of 2nd and 11th.Therefore before applying the rule of thumb the

effects of Lord of income and wealth posited in 12th should also be factored in.

This would save much agony when rules of thumb go wrong.Blind application of any

empirical formula or as you call it thumb rule, leads one to draw wrong

conclusions, not only in Jyotish but all sciences.

Chandrashekhar.

schinnas [schinnas ]Sent:

Friday, October 10, 2003 10:21 PMvedic astrologySubject:

[vedic astrology] Thumb rules on debilitation & retrograde and SJC

methodologyHas any statistical study been done to validate that concept that is

attributed to Sanjay ji?I know one chart that has a debilated benefic (Guru) in

dusthana (12th) and it has proven to be a curse for the native. The V dasa of

Guru was the WORST in terms of all matters associated with Guru and in matters

of the houses that Guru lords in the native's horoscope.I dont have permission

of the native to put her horoscope online or discuss the issues. Moreover, I am

yet to find one chart that proves the theory mentioned. The only chart I found

disproves the theory. I know that one chart doesnt constitute any statistical

merit, but I would like to know whether any statistical study has been done on

such thumb rules.I have respect for Sanjay ji, but all astrological theories

and thumb rules need to be subjected to reasonable statistical test and must be

accepted if and only if they work on majority of cases.Some might argue for

validity of thumbrules based on some assumed theoretical reasoning (based on

what they assume to be the reason why a planet is retrograde or debilitated in

someone's char), but what use is theoretical reasoning if such thumb rules

fails miserably in practise?I know it is taboo to discuss about other

astrologers. However, I admire some astrological schools (esp. Sri. K. N. Rao)

for periodically testing validity of thumb rules on hundreds of random

horoscopes and publishing the results. I wish SJC methodology involves more

statistical analysis rather than relying fully on theoretical logic, which may

not be correct at all times. SJC We all know SJC under Jyotish gurus such as

Sri. Sanjay, Sri. PVR, etc., does tremendous work in spread of jyotish, but it

is my opinion that not all of its principles are fully tested and validated

before it is taught to hundreds of students.If people want to call jyotish a

science, then such rules of jyotish must be subjectable to statistical and

probablistic tests. Please understand that this is just my humble

opinion.Thanks,-Siva.Archives:

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