Guest guest Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Dear Marcus, This has been another issue of discussion for years. However, I have been using the 12th with great success, based on C.S. Patels's "Arudha system of prediction" and Sanjay Rath teachings and Jaimini's "Upadesa Sutras". Here is a short "cut and paste" from one of Sanjay Raths articles. <The arudha of the bhava preceding the lagna (12th bhava) is the Upapada. This reckoing of the Upapada has been debated and scholars hold divergent views ins this regard. These views are as follows:-(a) ‘Anuchara’ means following/preceding and, hence, is 12th house for all signs.(b) ‘Anuchara’ means following/preceding and is the 12th house counted directly for odd signs and counted reverse for even signs i.e. the 12th bhava for odd sings ascending and the 2nd bhava for even signs ascending.© ‘Anuchara’ means following/preceding and, is the 12th house counted direct for Vimsapada lagna and reverse for samapada lagna. (The signs Mesha, Vrisab, Mithun, Tula, Vrischika and Dhanus are Vimsapada Rasis. The remaing are Samapada Rasi).(d) “Upapadam Padam Labhaditi” i.e. Upapada is the Darapada or the Arodha pada of the 7th bhava. To arrive at a conclusion as to the correct method of reckoning Upapada, it is necessary to eliminate those methods in which the result do not appear in the given cases. The upapads calculated by the four methods have been shown in the charts as UA, UB, UC, & UD respectively. Firstly, we may argue that the pada reckoning as per (D) is contrary to the teaching of Parasara or Jaimini. Secondly, the pada of the 7th house is studies for determining the (physical) relationship and sexual instincts and differs from the upapada as the latter views the spouse as a ‘life partner’ (Ardhangani) and includes progenic happiness as well.> Hopes this helps. Kind regards /Jay Weiss - Jyotish vedic astrology Saturday, October 04, 2003 11:56 AM [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear learned members, in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra which is included in the PL6 I found a comment on Upapada. "However if we study other commentaries on Jaimini (Chaukhambh Hindi edition) we are taught that it is the 12th house in the case of odd rasi ascending, and it is the 2nd house in the case of an even rasi ascending. According the Pad for the 12th or 2nd from Lagna is called Upa Pada." Could any of the learned members clarify this issue as it is calculated in all programs from the 12th house and no one seems to use this rule mentioned above. Hoping for your valued response MarcusArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Dear Marcus, You are right.It should so be calculated. Further the regular and reverse count is not applicable to some Rasis, as indicated by Jaimini in his Sutra 27 Adhyaya1 Pada 1 "na kvacita".The sign are Vrishabha and Vrishchika(Count in regular order) and Kumbha and Simha (Count reverse).This is the comment of B. Suryanarayana Rao on the Sutra. Chandrashekhar. Jyotish [jyotish (AT) ihug (DOT) com.au]Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 3:26 PMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear learned members, in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra which is included in the PL6 I found a comment on Upapada. "However if we study other commentaries on Jaimini (Chaukhambh Hindi edition) we are taught that it is the 12th house in the case of odd rasi ascending, and it is the 2nd house in the case of an even rasi ascending. According the Pad for the 12th or 2nd from Lagna is called Upa Pada." Could any of the learned members clarify this issue as it is calculated in all programs from the 12th house and no one seems to use this rule mentioned above. Hoping for your valued response MarcusArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">|| Jaya Jagannath || Dear Chandrashekhar and Marcus, Namaste 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> However according to the teachings of Pt. Sanjay Rath, the count is always regular irrespective of the signs involved. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hope this helps. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Best Wishes 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Sarajit 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk] Sunday, October 05, 2003 4:45 AM vedic astrology RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear Marcus, You are right.It should so be calculated. Further the regular and reverse count is not applicable to some Rasis, as indicated by Jaimini in his Sutra 27 Adhyaya1 Pada 1 "na kvacita".The sign are Vrishabha and Vrishchika(Count in regular order) and Kumbha and Simha (Count reverse).This is the comment of B. Suryanarayana Rao on the Sutra. Chandrashekhar. 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> font-family:Tahoma"> Jyotish [jyotish (AT) ihug (DOT) com.au] Saturday, October 04, 2003 3:26 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear learned members, in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra which is included in the PL6 I found a comment on Upapada. "However if we study other commentaries on Jaimini (Chaukhambh Hindi edition) we are taught that it is the 12th house in the case of odd rasi ascending, and it is the 2nd house in the case of an even rasi ascending. According the Pad for the 12th or 2nd from Lagna is called Upa Pada." Could any of the learned members clarify this issue as it is calculated in all programs from the 12th house and no one seems to use this rule mentioned above. Hoping for your valued response Marcus Archives: vedic astrology To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Dear Sarajit, What is his interpretatopn of the Sutra "Na kvachit"? I am asking this is because I have always wondered what the sage meant by this other than that the regular and reverse order of counting are not always so. I do not have Pt. Rath"s Upadesha sutra Commentary with me , hence the request. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarajit Poddar [sarajit (AT) (DOT) org]Monday, October 06, 2003 5:57 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada || Jaya Jagannath ||Dear Chandrashekhar and Marcus, Namaste However according to the teachings of Pt. Sanjay Rath, the count is always regular irrespective of the signs involved. Hope this helps. Best Wishes Sarajit Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk] Sunday, October 05, 2003 4:45 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear Marcus, You are right.It should so be calculated. Further the regular and reverse count is not applicable to some Rasis, as indicated by Jaimini in his Sutra 27 Adhyaya1 Pada 1 "na kvacita".The sign are Vrishabha and Vrishchika(Count in regular order) and Kumbha and Simha (Count reverse).This is the comment of B. Suryanarayana Rao on the Sutra. Chandrashekhar. Jyotish [jyotish (AT) ihug (DOT) com.au]Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 3:26 PMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear learned members, in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra which is included in the PL6 I found a comment on Upapada. "However if we study other commentaries on Jaimini (Chaukhambh Hindi edition) we are taught that it is the 12th house in the case of odd rasi ascending, and it is the 2nd house in the case of an even rasi ascending. According the Pad for the 12th or 2nd from Lagna is called Upa Pada." Could any of the learned members clarify this issue as it is calculated in all programs from the 12th house and no one seems to use this rule mentioned above. Hoping for your valued response Marcus Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">|| Jaya Jagannath || Dear Chandrashekhar, Namaste 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Here I am giving you the translation and meaning of the sutras of the context where Na Kvacit has appeared. This is being used for the calculation of the dasa years for the Narayana Dasa. Arial;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:navy;mso-ansi-language: EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"> Sutra 1.1.25 Translation 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The dasa (period in years) of the signs are determined by counting from a sign to sign occupied by its lord. This count is zodiacal if the signs are odd and reverse if the sign is even. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Meaning 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Count from the sign to its lord (both inclusive) and minus one. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Sutra 1.1.27 na color:navy"> kvacit | Translation 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">There are exception (to the rule vide preceding stanza). 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Meaning 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The exception to the general rules vide stanza 1.1.25 & 26 have been explained by Parasara as follows:- 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The exceptions are the fixed signs Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius. Taurus and Scorpio are even, yet the count is zodiacal while Leo and Aquarius are odd and yet the count is reverse. Then the signs having zodiacal count are called vimsopada (odd footed) and the signs with reverse count are called sampada (even footed). 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If the Lord is exalted, a year is added and if debilitated, a year is subtracted. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Rahu and Saturn are the Lords of Aquarius, while Ketu and Mars are the Lords of Scorpio. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If both Co-Lords are in the sign, it contributes 12 years (e.g. If Ketu and Mars are in Scorpio, it gives 12 years). 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If one is placed elsewhere, determine the period from this separately placed co-lords. (If Ketu is in Scorpio and Mars in Aries, the dasa should be reckoned through Mars. Counting from Scorpio to Aries, we have six signs, minus one gives 5 years). 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If both are placed in different signs, the stronger shall determine the dasa. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If both are equally strong, the larger period should be adopted. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Best Wishes 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Sarajit 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk] 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Tuesday, October 07, 2003 font-family:Tahoma">3:55 AM To: vedic astrology RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear Sarajit, What is his interpretatopn of the Sutra "Na kvachit"? I am asking this is because I have always wondered what the sage meant by this other than that the regular and reverse order of counting are not always so. I do not have Pt. Rath"s Upadesha sutra Commentary with me , hence the request. Regards, Chandrashekhar. 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> font-family:Tahoma"> Sarajit Poddar [sarajit (AT) (DOT) org] 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Monday, October 06, 2003 font-family:Tahoma">5:57 AM To: vedic astrology RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada || Jaya Jagannath || Dear Chandrashekhar and Marcus, Namaste However according to the teachings of Pt. Sanjay Rath, the count is always regular irrespective of the signs involved. Hope this helps. Best Wishes Sarajit Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk] 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Sunday, October 05, 2003 font-family:Tahoma">4:45 AM To: vedic astrology RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear Marcus, You are right.It should so be calculated. Further the regular and reverse count is not applicable to some Rasis, as indicated by Jaimini in his Sutra 27 Adhyaya1 Pada 1 "na kvacita".The sign are Vrishabha and Vrishchika(Count in regular order) and Kumbha and Simha (Count reverse).This is the comment of B. Suryanarayana Rao on the Sutra. Chandrashekhar. 12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in"> font-family:Tahoma"> Jyotish [jyotish (AT) ihug (DOT) com.au] 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Saturday, October 04, 2003 font-family:Tahoma">3:26 PM To: vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear learned members, in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra which is included in the PL6 I found a comment on Upapada. "However if we study other commentaries on Jaimini (Chaukhambh Hindi edition) we are taught that it is the 12th house in the case of odd rasi ascending, and it is the 2nd house in the case of an even rasi ascending. According the Pad for the 12th or 2nd from Lagna is called Upa Pada." Could any of the learned members clarify this issue as it is calculated in all programs from the 12th house and no one seems to use this rule mentioned above. Hoping for your valued response Marcus Archives: vedic astrology To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Archives: vedic astrology To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Dear Sarajit, I think you have given worng sutra as sutra 1.1.25. I am pasting below the Sutras 19 to 27 for your ready reference with their meanings. SU. 19.-Matra saha putrameke samamananthi.Some Acharyas or authors hold that the Matruand putrakarakas may be represented by one andthe same planet, that is these two Bhavas, lordshipof mother and children may be judged by the sameplanet. SU. 20.-Bhaginyarathassyalaha kaniyajjananee cheti.Some say that from Kuja should be ascertainedparticulars regarding brothers and sisters, brother-in-law, younger brothers and step-mothers. Someothers hold that predictions relating to step-mothershould be made from the 8th house. However thislatter view is not approved by all. SU. 21.-Mathuladayo bandhavo matrusojatiya ittyuttarataha.From Mercury should be ascertained detailsrelating to maternal uncles, maternal aunts andother maternal relations. SU. 22.-Pitamahou pathiputraviti gurumukhadeva janiyat.From Guru the paternal grandmother andgrandfather, the husband and children must befound out. SU. 23.-Patnipitarau swasurou matamaha ityante vasinaha. >From the next planet from Guru, viz., Sukra, the parents of the wife, or parents-in-law, paternal and maternal aunts, maternal grandfather and grandmother, and Ante Vasina or disciples must be found out. SU. 24.-Mandojyayan Graheshu. Among all the planets, Ravi, Chandra, Kuja, Budha, Guru, Sukra and Sani, Saturn is the least powerful. SU. 25.-Pracheevruttirvishamabheshu. In all odd signs the counting must be in the right direction. SU. 26.-Paravrutyottareshu. In even signs the counting must be in the reverse order. SU. 27.-Nakwachit. In some places or signs this does not apply. The reference does not any where mention that what is being said is with reference to Dashas.Whereas the sage gives the opinion of other Acharyas re. Charakarakas/Karakas and goes on about the strengths of Grahas and counting of rasis. The Sutra you mention appears after the Sutra 27 "Nakvachit", and is, SU. 28.-Nathaanthaha samaprayena.Many of the writers are of opinion, that theRasi Dasa (Period of the sign) extends over suchnumber of years which are counted from the Rasito the place where its lord is located. And even here there is no mention of counting of dasas.Sutras that follow give the details of calcilations of Aarudha Lagnas. I agree that the interpretation of "Nakvachit" is derived from Parashara's interpretation.Jaimini, to my knowledge mentions Rasi Dasas, navamsa Rasi Dasas, Chara, SDthra and Dual Rasi Dasas and Shoola Dasas as also Yugardhadasa and Nakshtradasas. About Rasi Dasa he indicates that the regular and revberse order be followed, as does Pt Rath. I am of the opinion that the Sutra "Nakvchita" is not applicable to these as suggested by you. But the original thread is about counting in case of counting for Pada Lagna and my response was in that regard. And here "Na Kvachta" is very much applicable.If I am wrong kindly correct me. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarajit Poddar [sarajit (AT) (DOT) org]Wednesday, October 08, 2003 5:15 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada || Jaya Jagannath ||Dear Chandrashekhar, Namaste Here I am giving you the translation and meaning of the sutras of the context where Na Kvacit has appeared. This is being used for the calculation of the dasa years for the Narayana Dasa. Sutra 1.1.25 Translation The dasa (period in years) of the signs are determined by counting from a sign to sign occupied by its lord. This count is zodiacal if the signs are odd and reverse if the sign is even. Meaning Count from the sign to its lord (both inclusive) and minus one. Sutra 1.1.27 na kvacit | Translation There are exception (to the rule vide preceding stanza). Meaning The exception to the general rules vide stanza 1.1.25 & 26 have been explained by Parasara as follows:- The exceptions are the fixed signs Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius. Taurus and Scorpio are even, yet the count is zodiacal while Leo and Aquarius are odd and yet the count is reverse. Then the signs having zodiacal count are called vimsopada (odd footed) and the signs with reverse count are called sampada (even footed). If the Lord is exalted, a year is added and if debilitated, a year is subtracted. Rahu and Saturn are the Lords of Aquarius, while Ketu and Mars are the Lords of Scorpio. If both Co-Lords are in the sign, it contributes 12 years (e.g. If Ketu and Mars are in Scorpio, it gives 12 years). If one is placed elsewhere, determine the period from this separately placed co-lords. (If Ketu is in Scorpio and Mars in Aries, the dasa should be reckoned through Mars. Counting from Scorpio to Aries, we have six signs, minus one gives 5 years). If both are placed in different signs, the stronger shall determine the dasa. If both are equally strong, the larger period should be adopted. Best Wishes Sarajit Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk] Tuesday, October 07, 2003 3:55 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear Sarajit, What is his interpretatopn of the Sutra "Na kvachit"? I am asking this is because I have always wondered what the sage meant by this other than that the regular and reverse order of counting are not always so. I do not have Pt. Rath"s Upadesha sutra Commentary with me , hence the request. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sarajit Poddar [sarajit (AT) (DOT) org]Monday, October 06, 2003 5:57 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada || Jaya Jagannath ||Dear Chandrashekhar and Marcus, Namaste However according to the teachings of Pt. Sanjay Rath, the count is always regular irrespective of the signs involved. Hope this helps. Best Wishes Sarajit Chandrashekhar Sharma [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk] Sunday, October 05, 2003 4:45 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear Marcus, You are right.It should so be calculated. Further the regular and reverse count is not applicable to some Rasis, as indicated by Jaimini in his Sutra 27 Adhyaya1 Pada 1 "na kvacita".The sign are Vrishabha and Vrishchika(Count in regular order) and Kumbha and Simha (Count reverse).This is the comment of B. Suryanarayana Rao on the Sutra. Chandrashekhar. Jyotish [jyotish (AT) ihug (DOT) com.au]Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 3:26 PMvedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Upa Pada Dear learned members, in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra which is included in the PL6 I found a comment on Upapada. "However if we study other commentaries on Jaimini (Chaukhambh Hindi edition) we are taught that it is the 12th house in the case of odd rasi ascending, and it is the 2nd house in the case of an even rasi ascending. According the Pad for the 12th or 2nd from Lagna is called Upa Pada." Could any of the learned members clarify this issue as it is calculated in all programs from the 12th house and no one seems to use this rule mentioned above. Hoping for your valued response Marcus Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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