Twins (Sri. K.N. Rao's response in jyotish-list)

[Guest guest]

Hi all:

I am a member of both the emails lists - jyotish-list where Sri. Since

Sri.K.N. Rao's emails appear only in jyotish-list and Sri. PVR's emails

appear only in this list, I thought I will re-post Sri. K.N. Rao's mail

related to this topic for the benefit of members of this forum.

 

Btw, who plagiarised the double-transit concept and planetary transits at

child birth concepts of Sri. K.N. Rao? It is difficult for people like me

to follow as Sri. K.N. Rao does not name names. The reason I am interested

in this is that plagiarism is a serious issue that needs to be tackled if

we want any research in astrology to progress. Please find Sri. K.N. Rao's

mail below.

 

Thanks,

Siva.

 

**************

 

"knrao" <jyotish-list@p...>

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:03 am

[jyotish-list] Plagiarism

 

25 Nov 2003

It is necessary to discuss the issue of plagiarism in astrology. It

has been there and will be there. It appears that Ranjan forwarded my

letter in the list to Narasimha who wrote a personal letter to me.

When plagiarism is done, it is of ideas, of the content and substance

of a research and sometimes even the language. The most blatant example in

recent years was the plagiarism by the English Intelligence from a thesis

on Iraq by an American. World came to know of it as a "sexed up" report in

a different context. There cannot be a more scandalous example of

plagiarism than this.

India's scientists have been accused often of plagiarising the

researches of westerners and even getting their PhDs.

In astrology such plagiarism has become more widespread now because

more and more writers know the craft of writing but not research of theirs.

They have to lift their ideas and substance of research from somewhere.

Is there any doubt that the double transit and the planetary transits

at child birth is mine and only my research (read my UPS AND DOWNS and

PLANETS AND CHILDREN). If it is lifted wholesale and different example

charts are given, does it cease to be plagiarism ? Mr. Praveen Kumar

brought such instances to my notice.

I will cite a Russian example later. And later how the class notes

taken from my lecture have been used for astrology workshops in USA.

 

Yours,

K.N.Rao.

Editor, Journal of Astrology,

F291 Saraswati Kunj, Patparganj, Plot No 25,

I.P.Extension,

Delhi 110092

Phone 2272-1624/2272-1625

Distributor of my books in USA

stellargroup

 

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...>

wrote:

> Om Gurave Namah

> Namaste Sri Rao,

>

> I was not allowed to join the j-list and Ranjan ji forwarded my mail

there. You seemed to be responding to that mail when you wrote the

following. I am sending my reply to you personally and also cc'ing it to

vedic astrology , which is the biggest Vedic astrology list on

the internet and where all views are tolerated.

>

> > 23 Nov. 2003

> > There is a good reason for my not participating in this discussion.

> > There is a much easer way and infallible one at that of making

> > use of varga charts and explaining the destinites of these brothers

> > and showing how both charts show the events of parents exactly.

> > The interlinking is absolutely fantastically. All that can be

> > explained through Vimshottari mahadasha. It is easy.

>

> I do not deny the interlinking of destinies. But, I still insist that D-

12 shows the destiny of parents from the child's perspective only. Each

child's D-12 may offer a different perspective on the destinies of parents.

>

> My sister's D-12 has Jupiter in 4th. From her perspective, my mother is a

wise and religious lady. But, my D-12 has Mercury in 4th in a Venusian

sign. From my perspective, my mother is a very smart, easy-going and

worldly wise lady.

>

> Thus, D-12's of two children may throw up different perspectives on the

same parent. And, in reality, it may so happen that neither perspective

matches what the parent's own rasi chart shows!

>

> If a native's mother or father has an important event in life (e.g.

becoming a nation's prime minister or having a big accident), it does show

up in their D-12 and Vimsottari dasa (or Narayana dasa works even better),

because the event affects the native's "parental environment". So,

interlinks in destiny do work, but they work thru the paradigm of "parental

environment" that I outlined. It is wrong, in my view, to think that one's

D-12 shows the complete destiny of parents. It only shows the aspect of

parental destiny that expresses itself thru one's parental environment.

>

> > Mr. Pravin refers to interlinked destinies which is a chapter in

> > my book "RISKS AND TRICKS OF PREDICTION" which he had

> > read thoroughly, in fact very thoroughly.

> > But I will not disclose it yet till a book comes out showing the

> > research. It will take time may be a year or more.

>

> Disclose what? If it is in a chapter in the above-mentioned book, I'd

imagine it's already "disclosed".

>

> If you have further "secrets", I look forward to your "disclosing" them

in a future book.

>

> > Mr. Praveen Kumar wrote to me a private mail recently showing

> > how a book on Transits in English carries heavy plagiarism from my

> > researches. I got the book and found out that the plagiarism was also

> > from the books of some other published works of writers of the

> > Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan who are my colleagues. There were pieces

> > also lifted from different issues of the Journal of Astrology.

>

> Plagiarism is a serious issue. If you are sure that somebody "plgiarized"

your "researches", please do take some action.

>

> Talking about plagiarism, Mr. Praveen Kumar copied a few sentences on the

Gaur twins from a copyrighted article on my website. He copied the

sentences *verbatim*. Neither did he get my permission to reproduce the

copyrighted material, nor did he acknowledge the source. I did not want to

antagonize him and so ignored it until this topic of plagiarism was brought

up by you!

>

> > That is the originality in the astrology of these writers !!

>

> So, what's the point? As long as you do not mention any names - of

writers or their works or your plagiarized works - what point does the

above assertion serve?

>

> > In fact I have now started feeling that I should not disclose

> > anything further. No one was using varga charts still I started the

> > trend many decades ago, first in private teaching and later in my

> > writings.

>

> Sri Seshidri Iyer was one of the first modern authors to show the

importance of varga charts. Then, books by you and your students really

popularized varga charts. You deserve kudos of the Jyotish community for

that! Popularization of varga charts was your monumental contribution to

modern Jyotish literature.

>

> However, in case you are thinking that the use of varga charts by others

is tantamount to "plagiarism", I beg to differ. Nobody has exclusive rights

over concepts such as divisional charts, bhava arudhas, graha arudhas,

chara karakas, varnadas, ghatika lagna, hora lagna, pranapada lagna, rasi

dasas etc.

>

> In fact, if you really have any important secrets with you and choose to

keep quiet, it will be a great loss for astrology.

>

> By God's grace, there has really been a renaissance in Vedic astrology

as you wrote once. You have made tremendous contributions with your books

and researches. Pt. Sanjay Rath also wrote books later and revealed some

brilliant secrets and insights.

>

> We - I am not saying this about anybody in particular - are all human and

have our own egos to pamper. But, if one rises above all this for a minute

and sees the works in Jyotish during the last decade impartially, one will

see that the renaissance in Vedic astrology is really coming. Several

persons - ranging from you to Pt. Rath - are playing a great role.

>

> Whether you are K.N. Rao or Sanjay Rath or P.V.R. Narasimha Rao, this is

not the time to keep queit and keep secrets. Nor is it the time to fight

amongst us and be distracted. This is the time to reveal secrets and

contribute to the renaissance, so that a future generation can put all the

pieces together and solve the puzzle! Because, I guarantee you, nobody

today has all the pieces!

>

> Personally, to me, it does not matter what I get out of it. What I give

is more important.

>

> > Incidentally what is this dedication to me and can anyone pass

> > on that article to me ?

> > K.N.Rao.

>

> If you go to the following page, you can read the article:

>

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/050200.htm

>

> It was written by me on April 8, 1998 and says at the top: "This article

is dedicated to Sri K.N. Rao, a living legend in the world of astrology." I

used to write small articles and dedicate them to accomplished scholars,

such as Dr. Raman, his grandfather, you, Mukunda Daivajna etc.

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

[Guest guest]

Hi all:

I am a member of both the emails lists - jyotish-list where Sri. Since

Sri.K.N. Rao's emails appear only in jyotish-list and Sri. PVR's emails

appear only in this list, I thought I will re-post Sri. K.N. Rao's mail

related to this topic for the benefit of members of this forum.

 

Btw, who plagiarised the double-transit concept and planetary transits at

child birth concepts of Sri. K.N. Rao? It is difficult for people like me

to follow as Sri. K.N. Rao does not name names. The reason I am interested

in this is that plagiarism is a serious issue that needs to be tackled if

we want any research in astrology to progress. Please find Sri. K.N. Rao's

mail below.

 

Thanks,

Siva.

 

**************

 

"knrao" <jyotish-list@p...>

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:03 am

[jyotish-list] Plagiarism

 

25 Nov 2003

It is necessary to discuss the issue of plagiarism in astrology. It

has been there and will be there. It appears that Ranjan forwarded my

letter in the list to Narasimha who wrote a personal letter to me.

When plagiarism is done, it is of ideas, of the content and substance

of a research and sometimes even the language. The most blatant example in

recent years was the plagiarism by the English Intelligence from a thesis

on Iraq by an American. World came to know of it as a "sexed up" report in

a different context. There cannot be a more scandalous example of

plagiarism than this.

India's scientists have been accused often of plagiarising the

researches of westerners and even getting their PhDs.

In astrology such plagiarism has become more widespread now because

more and more writers know the craft of writing but not research of theirs.

They have to lift their ideas and substance of research from somewhere.

Is there any doubt that the double transit and the planetary transits

at child birth is mine and only my research (read my UPS AND DOWNS and

PLANETS AND CHILDREN). If it is lifted wholesale and different example

charts are given, does it cease to be plagiarism ? Mr. Praveen Kumar

brought such instances to my notice.

I will cite a Russian example later. And later how the class notes

taken from my lecture have been used for astrology workshops in USA.

 

Yours,

K.N.Rao.

Editor, Journal of Astrology,

F291 Saraswati Kunj, Patparganj, Plot No 25,

I.P.Extension,

Delhi 110092

Phone 2272-1624/2272-1625

Distributor of my books in USA

stellargroup

 

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...>

wrote:

> Om Gurave Namah

> Namaste Sri Rao,

>

> I was not allowed to join the j-list and Ranjan ji forwarded my mail

there. You seemed to be responding to that mail when you wrote the

following. I am sending my reply to you personally and also cc'ing it to

vedic astrology , which is the biggest Vedic astrology list on

the internet and where all views are tolerated.

>

> > 23 Nov. 2003

> > There is a good reason for my not participating in this discussion.

> > There is a much easer way and infallible one at that of making

> > use of varga charts and explaining the destinites of these brothers

> > and showing how both charts show the events of parents exactly.

> > The interlinking is absolutely fantastically. All that can be

> > explained through Vimshottari mahadasha. It is easy.

>

> I do not deny the interlinking of destinies. But, I still insist that D-

12 shows the destiny of parents from the child's perspective only. Each

child's D-12 may offer a different perspective on the destinies of parents.

>

> My sister's D-12 has Jupiter in 4th. From her perspective, my mother is a

wise and religious lady. But, my D-12 has Mercury in 4th in a Venusian

sign. From my perspective, my mother is a very smart, easy-going and

worldly wise lady.

>

> Thus, D-12's of two children may throw up different perspectives on the

same parent. And, in reality, it may so happen that neither perspective

matches what the parent's own rasi chart shows!

>

> If a native's mother or father has an important event in life (e.g.

becoming a nation's prime minister or having a big accident), it does show

up in their D-12 and Vimsottari dasa (or Narayana dasa works even better),

because the event affects the native's "parental environment". So,

interlinks in destiny do work, but they work thru the paradigm of "parental

environment" that I outlined. It is wrong, in my view, to think that one's

D-12 shows the complete destiny of parents. It only shows the aspect of

parental destiny that expresses itself thru one's parental environment.

>

> > Mr. Pravin refers to interlinked destinies which is a chapter in

> > my book "RISKS AND TRICKS OF PREDICTION" which he had

> > read thoroughly, in fact very thoroughly.

> > But I will not disclose it yet till a book comes out showing the

> > research. It will take time may be a year or more.

>

> Disclose what? If it is in a chapter in the above-mentioned book, I'd

imagine it's already "disclosed".

>

> If you have further "secrets", I look forward to your "disclosing" them

in a future book.

>

> > Mr. Praveen Kumar wrote to me a private mail recently showing

> > how a book on Transits in English carries heavy plagiarism from my

> > researches. I got the book and found out that the plagiarism was also

> > from the books of some other published works of writers of the

> > Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan who are my colleagues. There were pieces

> > also lifted from different issues of the Journal of Astrology.

>

> Plagiarism is a serious issue. If you are sure that somebody "plgiarized"

your "researches", please do take some action.

>

> Talking about plagiarism, Mr. Praveen Kumar copied a few sentences on the

Gaur twins from a copyrighted article on my website. He copied the

sentences *verbatim*. Neither did he get my permission to reproduce the

copyrighted material, nor did he acknowledge the source. I did not want to

antagonize him and so ignored it until this topic of plagiarism was brought

up by you!

>

> > That is the originality in the astrology of these writers !!

>

> So, what's the point? As long as you do not mention any names - of

writers or their works or your plagiarized works - what point does the

above assertion serve?

>

> > In fact I have now started feeling that I should not disclose

> > anything further. No one was using varga charts still I started the

> > trend many decades ago, first in private teaching and later in my

> > writings.

>

> Sri Seshidri Iyer was one of the first modern authors to show the

importance of varga charts. Then, books by you and your students really

popularized varga charts. You deserve kudos of the Jyotish community for

that! Popularization of varga charts was your monumental contribution to

modern Jyotish literature.

>

> However, in case you are thinking that the use of varga charts by others

is tantamount to "plagiarism", I beg to differ. Nobody has exclusive rights

over concepts such as divisional charts, bhava arudhas, graha arudhas,

chara karakas, varnadas, ghatika lagna, hora lagna, pranapada lagna, rasi

dasas etc.

>

> In fact, if you really have any important secrets with you and choose to

keep quiet, it will be a great loss for astrology.

>

> By God's grace, there has really been a renaissance in Vedic astrology

as you wrote once. You have made tremendous contributions with your books

and researches. Pt. Sanjay Rath also wrote books later and revealed some

brilliant secrets and insights.

>

> We - I am not saying this about anybody in particular - are all human and

have our own egos to pamper. But, if one rises above all this for a minute

and sees the works in Jyotish during the last decade impartially, one will

see that the renaissance in Vedic astrology is really coming. Several

persons - ranging from you to Pt. Rath - are playing a great role.

>

> Whether you are K.N. Rao or Sanjay Rath or P.V.R. Narasimha Rao, this is

not the time to keep queit and keep secrets. Nor is it the time to fight

amongst us and be distracted. This is the time to reveal secrets and

contribute to the renaissance, so that a future generation can put all the

pieces together and solve the puzzle! Because, I guarantee you, nobody

today has all the pieces!

>

> Personally, to me, it does not matter what I get out of it. What I give

is more important.

>

> > Incidentally what is this dedication to me and can anyone pass

> > on that article to me ?

> > K.N.Rao.

>

> If you go to the following page, you can read the article:

>

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/050200.htm

>

> It was written by me on April 8, 1998 and says at the top: "This article

is dedicated to Sri K.N. Rao, a living legend in the world of astrology." I

used to write small articles and dedicate them to accomplished scholars,

such as Dr. Raman, his grandfather, you, Mukunda Daivajna etc.

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha