Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//

August 26, 2003

Dear Amolmandar,

I will give you an example outside astrology and religion.Guru represents

Minister or the teacher . Now teacher tells that which is right. Students many

a times feel unconfortable in the presence of the Teacher as he monitors their

behaviour, specially if in their youth they want to do something which the Guru

forbids being bad.Simialr is the case with the king whose ministers forbids him

from doing something that is against RajDharma. Now imagine House where Jupiter

is posited being the student/King and Jupiter being the Teacher. The results for

the house would be clear.

Of course , as I said earlier this is only my way at looking at it in order to

understand why this happens, and the Sages' principles are given to us as such

without the reasons behind them. We have to apply our Viveka to fathom the

logic behind it.Other worthies might hold different views.

Hope this helps understand the concept.

Chandrashekhar.

amolmandar [amolmandar ]Sent:

Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 PMvedic astrologySubject:

[vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and

Saturn Protects//Chandrashekharji NamsteAs usual you explained the things very

lucidly but just slight doubt. It is said many times that Guru is Dharma (not

religion) and it is as well said that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually

fails. Hence Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru should also

never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does MAYA play any role in

this?Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMAndarArchives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

August 26, 2003

Dear Pradeep,

The confusion arises because of the fact that some Sanskrita words loose their

import when translated to English. The shloka does not say Damage or Harm. It

says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations depending on the context.

Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like loosing one's place whereas

Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are loose. The same when said to be

done by other would mean harming or damaging other's modesty.

Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in conveyance of the

corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said many a times that

Astrology is better understood if one learns it in Sanskrit or Sanskrit based

Indian languages.

Hope this helps,

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep

[vijayadas_pradeep ]Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PMTo:

vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter

capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//Dear Chandrashekar jiI

now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult outcomes.Do you

mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the individuals can be

intelligent but their children will suffer.This is just to make sure, if i have

understood your example.But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding

the statement -'Jupiter destroys or harms'.This statement makes us puzzled

about the meaning vis-a-vis the nature of Jupiter.Because when we say it

destroys - it means jupiter's action was intented towards destruction.But that

is not the case.Jupiter tends to stick to principles even during adverse

situations.This behaviour makes him unable to protect.But his intention was

never to destroy nor the behaviour deserves destruction.But if you take another

exampleWhen Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction.Though both

the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of the 'houses',the means are

not the same.Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house

in which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less ambigue

-vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended.Though the end

result is same i feel there is a difference in the inherent meaning.Kindly

correct me if i am wrong.Also should one learn something from this lesson - to

live in Kali Yuga!Thanks and respectPradeep--- In

vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:>

Dear Pradeep,> Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be

true in their> application. Having said that, have you observed that the

children living> with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what

happens with> Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants to

go to> Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more often than>

other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas invariably got> defeated

and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc. Saturn> usually sided with

the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their Senapati.> About Saturn being good

in bad houses has to do with his ability to protect.> He protects one from bad

indications of that house. These are my personal> opinions and other worthies

might have different opinions.> Chandrashekhar.> > -------Original

Message-------> > vedic astrology> Monday, August

25, 2003 08:17:02 PM> vedic astrology> Subject:

[vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house> it and

Saturn Protects//> > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members.> > I have seen

from the archives ,where you had participated in> discussions,that Jupiter has

the capacity to destroy the bhava in > which> it is placed and Saturn

Protects.> > Here I have some queries.> > What is the reason for a benevolent

planet like jupiter to try and > harm> or destroy.> > Also i have read that

saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12 etc) -> because ,saturn by nature is

bad and hence bad and bad> (negative,negative results in positive) should bring

good. But if > saturn> can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the

above > statement> loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of

this> 'negative-negative' is wrong.> > When i try to understand the nature of

jupiter - I feel it can test > the> individual always on the path of life,which

can be painfull and hard > as> well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an

individual can > combat> the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of

patience and > other> mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right?

> > But why is it trying to destroy? > > Also doesn't other considerations like

strength,position etc come > into> play while deciding on this?> > If you can

explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of > which > it> is trying to

behave like this, it would be helpful. > > Moreover i can give input on my real

experiences (good and bad) about> jupiter placed in ascendant.> > Thanks a lot

> Pradeep> > > > Sponsor> > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-> > ........ May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu

|| > > Terms of

Service.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

August 26, 2003

|| Om Gurave Namah ||

Dear Jyotishas,

Regarding Jupiter in various houses and signs below is something

from Saaraavalli. It seems that Jupiter enhances the both the Sign

qualities and house qualities.

Warm Regards

S. Prabhakaran

Ch. 27. Effects of Jupiter in Various Signs

1-2. JUPITER IN ARIES. If Jupiter is posited in Aries at birth, one

will be argumentative in disposition, will acquire precious stones

and ornaments out of his efforts, will be endowed with strength, sons

and wealth, will have eminent and famous profession, be splendourous,

will have many enemies, much expenses and an injured body and will

confer fierce and cruel punishments.

3-4. Should Jupiter be in Taurus, one will be endowed with a broad

body, be corpulent, will honour Brahmins and Gods, be splendourous,

fortunate, attached to his wife, be endowed with good appearance,

profession, cows and abundant wealth; will possess good articles and

ornaments, be distinguished in speech, intelligence and skill; will

have political / judicial wisdom, be modest, be endowed with medical

accomplishments and be skillful in experiments.

5-6. Should Jupiter be in Gemini, the native will be affluent,

scholarly, proficient, will possess attractive eyes, be eloquent,

courteous, skillful, virtuous, will honour elders and relatives, will

be able to utter "bejeweled" words (be literally rich in words),

which are benevolent in nature, be devoted to his duties and be a

good poet.

7-8. If Jupiter be in Cancer at birth, the native will be a scholar,

be beautiful, be highly learned, charitable, good-natured, be very

strong, be famous, will possess abundant grains and riches, be

endowed with truth and penance, will have long-living sons, be

honoured by all, will be a king, will have a distinguished profession

and will be attached to his friends.

9-10. Should Jupiter be in Leo at the time of birth, the native will

be lastingly inimical, be strong, courageous, will show abundant

friendship, be learned, rich, will have eminent relatives, be a king,

will have heroism akin to that of a king, will be recognizable in an

assembly, will destroy the entire band of his enemies, will possess a

strong physique and will live in hills, fortresses, forests and

temples.

11-12. If Jupiter occupies Virgo at birth, one will be a scholar, be

virtuous, be skillful in his work, be fond of scents, robes and

flowers, will firmly gain in undertakings, will have rich experience

in Śāstras and fine arts, be affluent, charitable, pure-hearted,

skillful and wonderfully learned.

13-14. If Jupiter occupies Libra at birth, one will be a scholar,

will have many sons, be endowed with foreign assignments, will be

very affluent, interested in ornaments, modest, will earn money

through dance and drama, be pleasing in appearance, be splendourous,

learned in Śāstras, be superior among his colleague-businessmen, will

honour Gods and guests and be very learned.

15-16. Should Jupiter at the time of one's birth be in Scorpio, he

will be expert in Śāstras, be a king, will be a commentator of many

Bhāşyas (a commentary, which explains Sūtras word by word with

comments of its own, for example, on Vedas), be skillful, will

construct temples and towns, will have many wives, but few sons, be

troubled by diseases, will undergo many difficulties, be very fierce,

be ostentatious in his performance, be virtuous and will indulge in

contemptuous acts.

17-18. If Jupiter occupies Sagittarius at birth, one will be a

preceptor, will conduct religious vows, initiations, sacrifices etc.,

will have lasting wealth, be charitable, be friendly to his own men,

be fond of helping others, interested in Shastras, be the head of a

zone, or a minister, will live in many countries, will prefer

loneliness and be interested in visiting shrines.

19-20. JUPITER IN CAPRICORN. Jupiter in Capricorn denotes, that the

native will be less virile, will experience much grief and

difficulties, will be mean in conduct, be a dunce, will meet a bad

end, will suffer from penury, will serve others, will be bereft of

auspiciousness, mercy, purity, affection to his relatives and of

religion, will have an emaciated body, be timid, interested in living

in other countries and be depressed of spirits.

21-22. JUPITER IN AQUARIUS. If Jupiter falls in Aquarius at the time

of birth, one will be a tale-bearer, be ill disposed, interested in

evil jobs, be chief among his race men, be always attached to base

men, be malicious, miserly, will suffer from diseases, will lose

wealth on account his own utterances, be devoid of intelligence and

virtues and will violate elder's beds.

23-24. JUPITER IN PISCES. If Jupiter is in Pisces at birth, one will

be expert in knowing the meanings of Vedas and other Shastras, will

be honoured by friends and virtuous people, will be a headsman in the

king's employ, be praiseworthy, unconquerable, rich, devoid of fear,

be proud, firm in undertakings, be a king, be skillful in policies,

training, behavior and war tactics, be famous and will be calm in his

doings.

>From Chapter 27 for Saturn

74. If Saturn happens to be in the Ascendant identical with

exaltation, or own House, the native will equal a king in status, or

will head a country, or city. If Saturn is in the Ascendant in other

Rāśis, then his own, or exaltation Rāśi, the planet will

give misery

in boyhood, dirty disposition and indolence.

75. If Saturn occupies the 2nd, the native will have an ugly face,

will enjoy worldly prosperity, be devoid of his own men, will render

justice, will later on (in the course of his life) go to other

countries and will earn money and conveyances.

76. If Saturn occupies the 3rd, the native will be dark in

complexion, will maintain physical cleanliness, be base, will have

indolent attendants, be courageous, charitable and will have great

intelligence.

77. SATURN IN THE 4th. If Saturn occupies the 4th Bhava, the native

will suffer heart disease, or be broken-hearted, be devoid of

relatives, conveyances, wealth, intelligence and happiness, will

suffer sickness in boyhood and will have (prominent) nails and hair.

78. SATURN IN THE 5th. Should Saturn occupy the 5th Bhava, the native

will be bereft of happiness, sons, friends, intelligence and

kindness, be agitated and be poor.

79. If Saturn occupies the 6th, the native will be very licentious,

be beautiful, courageous, will eat abundantly, be crooked and will

conquer many of his enemies.

80. If Saturn is posited in the 7th, the native will always be

subjected to ill health, will lose his wife, be bereft of wealth,

will present himself ugly, be sinful and will do very mean acts.

81. If Saturn occupies the 8th, the native will suffer from leprosy

and fistula in the anus, or pudendum, will have short life and will

fail in his undertakings.

82. If Saturn occupies the 9th, the native will be devoid of

religious merits, will not have much wealth, be bereft of co-born,

sons and happiness and will cause sorrow to others.

83. If Saturn occupies the 10th, the native will be wealthy, learned,

valorous and be a minister, or a justice, or be the leader of a

group, city, or village.

84. If Saturn occupies the 11th, the native will be long-lived,

endowed with lasting riches, be courageous, will have knowledge of

arts, be devoid of sickness and be endowed with money, people and

wealth.

85. If Saturn occupies the 12th, the native will be distressed,

fallen in moral sense, talkative, will have defective eyesight, be

unkind, shameless, will spend much and be insulted.

Chapter 30

---------

50. If Jupiter occupies the 1st, the native will be attractive in

appearance, energetic, long-lived, will act after assessing

consequences, be learned, courageous and great.

51. Jupiter in the 2nd. If Jupiter occupies the 2nd, the native will

be rich, will enjoy good food, be an eloquent speaker, be fortunate,

be charitable and will have a beautiful body and face.

52. If Jupiter occupies the 3rd, the native will be greatly

humiliated, be vile, ever successful, will have digestive

deficiencies, be defeated by women and be sinful in acts.

53. If Jupiter occupies the 4th, the native will be endowed with

relatives, paraphernalia, conveyance, happiness, intelligence,

pleasures and wealth, be great and be a source of misery to his

enemies.

54. If Jupiter occupies the 5th, the native will have abundant

happiness, many sons and friends, be learned, courageous, wealthy and

will always be happy.

55. If Jupiter is in the 6th, the native will lack digestive fire and

masculine virile, be humiliated, weak, indolent, will become famous

on account of females, will destroy his enemies and be widely famous.

56. If Jupiter occupies the 7th, the native will be charming, will

acquire a beautiful wife, be greater than his father, be an eloquent

speaker, a poet, a superior person and be learned and famous.

57. If Jupiter occupies the 8th, the native will be insulted, long-

lived, be a servant, will serve his own people, be pitiable and will

have union with dirty women.

58. If Jupiter is in 9th, the native will be attached to divine and

paternal duties, be learned, fortunate, be a king's minister, or a

leader and be chief.

59. If Jupiter occupies the 10th, the native will attain successful

beginning in his undertaking, be honourable, effortful and will be

endowed with abundant welfare, happiness, wealth, relatives,

conveyances and fame.

60. If Jupiter occupies the 11th, the native will enjoy many gains,

many conveyances and many servants, be virtuous, but will have

limited education and few sons.

61. If Jupiter occupies the 12th, the native will be indolent,

odious, be devoid of speech and luck and will be in all probability

in servitude.

Ch. 29. Effects of Saturn in Various Rāśis

1-2. SATURN IN ARIES. If Saturn occupies Aries at the time of one's

birth one will be miserable due to his vices and hard labor, be

deceitful will hate his relatives, be blameworthy, garrulous,

reprobated, poor, bad in appearance, ill-tempered, inimical to his

people, will do base acts, be jealous and sinful.

3-4. If Saturn occupies Taurus at the time of one's birth, he will be

bereft of wealth, be a servant, will speak undesirable words, be

untruthful, will win the hearts of old women, will have bad friends,

will be addicted to women, will serve other women, be not outspoken,

will have strong sight, be related to numerous assignments and be a

fool.

5-6. If Saturn occupies Gemini, one will contract debts and

imprisonments, will toil, will have vanity in disposition will

consecrate by hymns and prayers, be bereft of virtues, be always in

hide-out, be libidinous, cunning, wicked and fond of wandering and of

sports.

7-8. SATURN IN CANCER. If Saturn is in Cancer, one will possess a

beloved wife, be devoid of wealth in boyhood, will suffer many

diseases, be learned, motherless, soft-spoken, distinguished in acts,

will always contract diseases, will trouble others, be inimical to

relatives, crooked, be kingly in his mid-life and will enjoy growing

pleasures.

9-10. SATURN IN LEO. If Saturn occupies Leo, one will be interested

in writing and reading, be skillful, be disdained, devoid of virtues

and wife, will live by servitude, be devoid of his own men and

happiness, be interested in doing base acts, ill-tempered, be mad

with (undue) desires, will carry loads, will toil hard and will have

a wrinkled body.

11-12. SATURN IN VIRGO. If Saturn occupies Virgo at birth the subject

will resemble a eunuch, be very crafty, will depend on others for

food, be addicted to prostitutes, will have a few friends, be

unacquainted with arts, be desirous of indulging in ugly acts, will

possess sons and wealth, be indolent, helpful to others, will intent

upon spoiling virgins and be cautious in his actions.

13-14. Saturn posited in Libra at birth indicates, that the subject

will be rich, soft-spoken, will earn money and honours from foreign

countries, be a king, or a scholar, will have his wealth protected by

his relatives, be senior in the circle, will attain a high status

owing to his gracious speech in an assemblage, be good and will join

corrupt female dancers and prostitutes.

15-16. SATURN IN SCORPIO. If Saturn occupies Scorpio at birth, the

native will be hostile, be crooked, affected by poison and weapons,

very ill-tempered, miserly, egoistic, rich, capable of stealing

others' money, averse to instruments played on festive occasions,

malicious, very miserable and will face destruction, misery and

diseases.

17-18. SATURN IN SAGITTARIUS. If Saturn occupies Sagittarius, one

will be skillful in behavior, teaching, Vedic meanings, learning and

denotation, (i.e. he will be best placed in these respects), be

famous due to virtuous children, family profession and his own

virtues, will enjoy excellent affluence in his old age, will speak

less, will have many names and be soft in disposition.

19-20. If Saturn is posited at birth in Capricorn, the native will

lord over the lands of others' females, will be endowed with Vedic

knowledge, virtues and knowledge of many branches of fine arts, be

excellent among his caste-men, be honourable, will respect others, be

famous, be interested in bathing and decoration, will be skillful in

performance, will live in foreign places, be courageous and be polite

in behavior.

21-22. If Saturn is in Aquarius, the native will be a great liar, be

eminent, be addicted to women and wine, be wicked, crafty, will fall

prey to evil friendship, be very ill-tempered, be averse to

knowledge, conversation and traditional law, be addicted to other

women, be harsh in speech and will attempt at many undertakings.

23-24. SATURN IN PISCES. If Saturn occupies Pisces at birth, one will

be fond of Sacrifices and arts, be chief among his relatives and

friends, be calm, will have increasing wealth, be skillful in policy-

making, be capable of diamond testing, be virtuous, modest and will

later on acquire an authoritative position.

August 26, 2003

Dear Chandrashekar ji

This suggestion is really good.

I too feel one should learn astrology from the original textual

language or its derivatives, after reading your mail.

But now after seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still having some

doubts.

As you have said, even though your example-regarding student,guru

and all cannot be generalised - I am taking that example to clear my

doubts.

Here i believe the nature of the students and guru has to be

considered - Similarly the king and minister.

If both are of the same nature - then no one has to

suffer,'Bhrashta'.

1)Similarly if jupiter is placed in a friendly house or deeptha or

swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal circumstances.

2)But as the lagna or the individual is subject to various

influences within the chart - there can be disharmony.

Hence do you consider my point(1) as haaving some relevance?

or shld we always give importance only to point (2).

Please pardon me from asking questions like this as i am no person

to debate with you - either by knowledge or age.

Thanks again

Pradeep

vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma"

<boxdel> wrote:

> Dear Pradeep,

> The confusion arises because of the fact that some Sanskrita words

loose

> their import when translated to English. The shloka does not say

Damage or

> Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different conotations

depending on the

> context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be something like loosing one's

place

> whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are loose. The

same when

> said to be done by other would mean harming or damaging other's

modesty.

> Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a problem in

conveyance of

> the corect meaning of sanskrita words. This is why I have said

many a times

> that Astrology is better understood if one learns it in Sanskrit

or Sanskrit

> based Indian languages.

> Hope this helps,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep]

> Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of

destroying the

> house it and Saturn Protects//

>

> Dear Chandrashekar ji

>

> I now understand why Jupiter placement can result in difficult

> outcomes.

>

> Do you mean to say if jupiter is placed in puthrasthana ,then the

> individuals can be intelligent but their children will

suffer.This is

> just to make sure, if i have understood your example.

>

> But i have one slight difference in opinion regarding the

statement -

> 'Jupiter destroys or harms'.

>

> This statement makes us puzzled about the meaning vis-a-vis the

> nature of Jupiter.

>

> Because when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's action was

> intented towards destruction.But that is not the case.Jupiter

tends

> to stick to principles even during adverse situations.This

behaviour

> makes him unable to protect.But his intention was never to

destroy

> nor the behaviour deserves destruction.

>

> But if you take another example

> When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved destruction.

>

> Though both the behaviours resulted(ends) in the destruction of

> the 'houses',the means are not the same.

>

> Hence i believe if we say Jupiter is unable to protect the house

in

> which it is placed,during all circumstances, it becomes less

ambigue -

> vis-a-vis its nature,because destruction was never intended.

>

> Though the end result is same i feel there is a difference in the

> inherent meaning.

>

> Kindly correct me if i am wrong.

>

> Also should one learn something from this lesson - to live in

Kali

> Yuga!

>

> Thanks and respect

> Pradeep

>

> vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma"

> <boxdel> wrote:

> > Dear Pradeep,

> > Certain principles are given by the sages and are found to be

true

> in their

> > application. Having said that, have you observed that the

children

> living

> > with highly intelligent parents rarely suceed? This is what

happens

> with

> > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also not ,if one wants

to go

> to

> > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the Daanaavas more

often

> than

> > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there. Devas

invariably

> got

> > defeated and had to be rescued by Mahadeva, Vishnu, Durga etc.

> Saturn

> > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi Rahu was their

> Senapati.

> > About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do with his

ability to

> protect.

> > He protects one from bad indications of that house. These are

my

> personal

> > opinions and other worthies might have different opinions.

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > ----

> >

> > vedic astrology

> > Monday, August 25, 2003 08:17:02 PM

> > vedic astrology

> > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter capable of

destroying

> the house

> > it and Saturn Protects//

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekar ji and learned members.

> >

> > I have seen from the archives ,where you had participated in

> > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to destroy the bhava

in

> > which

> > it is placed and Saturn Protects.

> >

> > Here I have some queries.

> >

> > What is the reason for a benevolent planet like jupiter to try

and

> > harm

> > or destroy.

> >

> > Also i have read that saturn can be good in bad houses (6,8,12

> etc) -

> > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad and bad

> > (negative,negative results in positive) should bring good. But

if

> > saturn

> > can protect all the houses where it is placed ,then the above

> > statement

> > loses ist significance.Pls correct if my understanding of this

> > 'negative-negative' is wrong.

> >

> > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter - I feel it can

test

> > the

> > individual always on the path of life,which can be painfull and

> hard

> > as

> > well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an individual

can

> > combat

> > the tests and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots of patience

and

> > other

> > mental strengths or more concern for others? Am i right?

> >

> > But why is it trying to destroy?

> >

> > Also doesn't other considerations like strength,position etc

come

> > into

> > play while deciding on this?

> >

> > If you can explain the inherent nature of Jupiter, by virtue of

> > which

> > it

> > is trying to behave like this, it would be helpful.

> >

> > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences (good and bad)

> about

> > jupiter placed in ascendant.

> >

> > Thanks a lot

> > Pradeep

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > Terms of

Service.

>

> Sponsor

>

> Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release 8/19/03

August 27, 2003

dear chandershekarji,

does this mean that jupiter fails to protect the

house in which is is located? iirespective of good or bad? what about

the house it aspects. does this hold good even if jupiter is involved

in yagas like hansa yoga or gajakesari yoga.? what about debilited

jupiter?

now what about saturn in good houses does it protect the

sigindicanes of that house as well/ what about debilited saturn?what

about the houses it aspects?

with respect

ajoy

August 30, 2003

Dear Pradeep,

If you remember my posts on various subjects on this list, you will remember

that I have said, it is very easy to ignore that which faces you and

concentrate on only one factor. This leads one to draw wrong conclusions. In

the case of Jupiter in 1st house your question though right, misses out on one

important fact. This is that Jupiter in 1st aspects 5th 7th and 9th. Look at

the names given to these houses and the answer is obvious. I have already said

that Jupiter's aaspect protects whereas Saturn's ( barring exception already

mentioned earlier) harms.

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep

[vijayadas_pradeep ]Saturday, August 30, 2003 2:49 AMTo:

vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter

capable of destroying the house it and Saturn Protects//Dear

ChandrashekarjiThanks for the detailed reply.So i understand jeevaha and

mandaha references are jupiter and saturn respectively.No statement can stand

own its own.What is the circumstance in which this shloka is told by Parashara.

Jupiter placement in first house(in own sign) ofcourse puts one under tremendous

pressure to be just to everyone and react fast to things which one think are not

correct.Thus this placement might help others more, than the self, atleast in

certain aspects(because you have to lose something to balance the other)But at

the same time i should say this gives one great craving for knowledge and also

the blessing named luck.Really helps fifth and ninth houses.So i feel though

there are difficulties due to the strictness,overall it is a blessing,if in

strength plus other factors .The brevity of sanskrit is amazing.Also your

statement ' Guru for Sagittarius' is neutral - keeps me thinking.Plus Papa for

some 6 rashis!Thanks a lotPradeepvedic astrology,

"Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Pradeep.> It is "Sthana

bhrashta karoti jeevaha. sthana rakshati mandaha.". I have not> said that

Jupiter damages all indications of a house. Astrology is not a> mathematical

science, though projected as such by many. The Astrologer has> to assess the

chart as a whole and arrive at the impact the relative> planetary position will

have on the horoscope as a whole.> > About 2nd house placement of Jupiter , it

does cause problems to 2nd house> unless placed in his own Rasi.About his

placement in 1st house ,as you say> you have own experience.> > I have nowhere

said that nature of Guru is Bhrashtra. I have said that Guru> causes the

indication of the sthana in which he is placed to become>

blemished(Bharashtra).I am emphasising on word Bhrashta, because that is> what

the shloka says and its translation into english is indeed difficult. I> look

at astrological principles from an analytical point of view. I> ,generally, do

not try to associate them with Scriptural stories.> > The reason is that the

meaning depends on one's own interpretation of> scriptures.And believe me they

are capable of different interpretations,> because of brevity of Sanskrit

language. The sanskrit grammar has undergone> many changes over the thousands

of years that it has been in existence. It> is said " Laksham Vyakaranam

Proktam, Chaturlaksham Tu Jyotisham."> > However some tend to think that the

planets have fixed nature ( and they> might have their own experiences to

believe such), whereas the nature> vis-a-vis a Jataka would depend on many

factors such as house ownership,> placement,aspects, Varga positions and so

on.> > The theory being advanced that Jupiter always protects, though

attractive> does not explain why his place ment in 5th in strength is harmful

to getting> progeny or 2nd house placement gives not favourable results. It

also tends> to ridicule the Great parashara who says that Jupiter is said to be

"Papa" a> malefic for Taurus,Gemini,Virgo,Libra,Capricorn and Aquarius.In

addition ,> the reason of his being neutral to his Moola trikona Rasi

Sagitarius as> stated by parashara would be wrong if we accept the hypothessis

of Jupiter> being auscpicious no matter what and where.> > You could find out

whether the principle is right or wrong by applying to> real life charts. This

is the only way to ascertain whether a hypothesis is> correct or not.> > Hope

this helps,> Chandrashekhar.> > > >

vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep]> Friday, August 29,

2003 9:50 PM> vedic astrology> [vedic astrology]

Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the> house it and Saturn

Protects//> > > > Dear chandrashekar ji> > Could you kindly quote the

shloka related to guru.This is just out> of curiosity.> > Then from your

mails i have understood that,you are very particular> about the 'Bhrashta'

while speaking about jupiter.> > I believe apart from understanding the

inherent meaning, you might> be having some experience related to the Guru

and Bhrashta,perhaps> with people whom you know well.> > If you could quote

some real life experiences it would become more> useful.> Because if we

consider a person having jupiter in 2nd house - The> person should have

problem related to money> savings,speech,family,and other aspects reprsntd by

2nd house.How is> this possible for all the aspects?> > I am totally with

you regarding the strictness which guru might> impose on the houses in which

he is placed - at least regarding> first house (because of own

experience,also forming hamsa yoga).> > But again first house represents ->

physique,appearance,intellect,complexion,happiness etc.But could you> explain

how or why gurus prescence should result in damage of all> these aspects.> >

I dont want to conclude anything for me.I want to wait and> understand what

the sages have said.> > So from your experience and knowledge i am trying to

gain some real> understanding regarding this.> > Also Zoranjis mail was

conveying the message - one should> differentiate the nature of the planets

from other factors.> But i understood from your mails that the very nature of

guru is> resulting in 'Bhrashta'.So how do we relate this.> > regds &

thanks> Pradeep> > vedic astrology, Zoran

Radosavljevic> <ahimsa@N...> wrote:> > Om Namo Narayanaya,> > Dear

Chandrakeshar,> > I see.. I was relying upon a subject.. This hypotesyse

given as> the> > subject " Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and

Saturn> > protects" is highly dubious and should not be followed...> > Best

wishes> > Zoran> >> > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote:> >> > > Dear

Zoran,> > >> > > You are perhaps misinterpreting the Sanskrita word Guru

with the> word> > > Guru as planet used in the original post.I was just

trying to> clear> > > the misunderstanding when Guru as in planet was being

taken as> Gur as> > > in the master by explaining the principles from both

the> hypothesis.> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > > Chandrashekhar.> > >>

> > > > > Zoran Radosavljevic

[ahimsa@N...]> > > Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:50 AM> > >

vedic astrology> > > Re: [vedic astrology]

Re: Why is // Jupiter capable> of> > > destroying the house it and

Saturn Protects//> > >> > > Om Namo Narayanaya,> > > Dear

Chandrakeshar and members,> > > Sorry for butting in so abrubtly without

the following of the> > > previous mails... It has been experience among

my students> and> > > those who learn Jyotish> > > that some

basic confusion is very strong. One should never> mix> > > the natural

tendency of a Graha and functional role of the> Graha..> > > Natural

benefics as Guru who is the Bhagwan of the chart will> > > NEVER harm

any point but on the contrary will IMPROVE all> points> > > he touches>

> > in the chart by means of his NATURE. However, each graha has> a> >

> role and different states. For instance, such guru may rule> 8th> > >

house which is> > > Randra or the vulnarable place, the worst house. It

is akin> to a> > > good person having a negative role. E.G> suppose, a

good> neigbhour> > > has to tell you that> > > someone who is

dear has passed away... it will never change> his> > > nature, he will

still remain a good neigbour.. Furthermore,> graha> > > may give bad

results even if benefic if placed in bad> avastas.> > > However, it

doesnot again change its nature.. The malefic> results> > > are given

due to graha bad mood. Thus, if guru gives bad> results, it> > > may

give only on the bases of its rulership of bad houses, or> > > being

placed in bad avastas. It can never change his natural> > > benefic

tendency..> > > Hope this may help> > > Best wishes> > >

Zoran> > >> > > Chandrashekhar Sharma wrote:> > >> > >> Dear

Pradeep,> > >>> > >> The analogy of student/king is misunderstood. It

was an> aside to> > >> the main topic and just to understand the idea

of why the> > >> student's hous e would feel unconfortable by presence

of> Guru.> > >>> > >> It is well to understand that the results that

Jupiter will> give> > >> in each case would vary depending on his house

lordship and> house> > >> of placement. However the streak of

damage(Bhrashta) to the> house> > >> would remain, though modified.If

he house is bad the results> > >> could actually be good as the bad

efects get lessened.> > >>> > >> Chandrashekhar.> > >>> > >>> >

>>> > >> > > >>

vijayadas_pradeep [> vijayadas_pradeep ]> > >> Sent:

Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:39 AM> > >> To:

vedic astrology> > >> [vedic astrology] Re:

Why is // Jupiter> capable of> > >> destroying the house it and

Saturn Protects//> > >>> > >> Dear Chandrashekar ji> > >>> > >>

This suggestion is really good.> > >> I too feel one should

learn astrology from the original> textual> > >> language or its

derivatives, after reading your mail.> > >>> > >> But now after

seeing your mail for amol ji,i am still> having> > >> some> > >>

doubts.> > >>> > >> As you have said, even though your

example-regarding> > >> student,guru> > >> and all cannot

be generalised - I am taking that> example to> > >> clear my> >

>> doubts.> > >>> > >> Here i believe the nature of the

students and guru has> to be> > >> considered - Similarly the king

and minister.> > >>> > >> If both are of the same nature - then no

one has to> > >> suffer,'Bhrashta'.> > >> 1)Similarly if

jupiter is placed in a friendly house or> > >> deeptha or> > >>

swakshethra - harmony is not troubled ,under normal> > >>

circumstances.> > >>> > >> 2)But as the lagna or the individual is

subject to> various> > >> influences within the chart - there can

be disharmony.> > >>> > >> Hence do you consider my point(1) as

haaving some> relevance?> > >> or shld we always give importance

only to point (2).> > >>> > >> Please pardon me from asking

questions like this as i> am no> > >> person> > >> to

debate with you - either by knowledge or age.> > >>> > >> Thanks

again> > >> Pradeep> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> --- In

vedic-> astrology , "Chandrashekhar Sharma"> > >>

<boxdel> wrote:> > >> > Dear Pradeep,> > >> > The

confusion arises because of the fact that some> > >> Sanskrita words>

> >> loose> > >> > their import when translated to English.

The shloka> does> > >> not say> > >> Damage or> > >>

> Harm. It says"Bhrashta". The word has different> conotations> > >>

depending on the> > >> > context. Like Sthanabhrashta would be

something like> > >> loosing one's> > >> place> > >>

> whereas Sheelabhrashta would mean one whose moral are> > >>

loose. The> > >> same when> > >> > said to be done by other

would mean harming or> damaging> > >> other's> > >>

modesty.> > >> > Limitations of the language does sometimes pose a>

problem in> > >> conveyance of> > >> > the corect meaning of

sanskrita words. This is why I> have said> > >> many a times> > >>

> that Astrology is better understood if one learns it> in> > >>

Sanskrit> > >> or Sanskrit> > >> > based Indian

languages.> > >> > Hope this helps,> > >> >

Chandrashekhar.> > >> > > > >>

> vijayadas_pradeep [> vijayadas_pradeep@y ...]> > >>

> Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:38 PM> > >> > To:

vedic astrology> > >> > [vedic astrology]

Re: Why is // Jupiter> capable of> > >> destroying the> > >>

> house it and Saturn Protects//> > >> >> > >> >> > >>

> Dear Chandrashekar ji> > >> >> > >> > I now

understand why Jupiter placement can result in> > >> difficult> >

>> > outcomes.> > >> >> > >> > Do you mean to

say if jupiter is placed in> puthrasthana> > >> ,then the> > >>

> individuals can be intelligent but their children> will> > >>

suffer.This is> > >> > just to make sure, if i have understood

your> example.> > >> >> > >> > But i have one slight

difference in opinion> regarding the> > >> statement -> > >>

> 'Jupiter destroys or harms'.> > >> >> > >> > This

statement makes us puzzled about the meaning> > >> vis-a-vis the> >

>> > nature of Jupiter.> > >> >> > >> > Because

when we say it destroys - it means jupiter's> > >> action was> > >>

> intented towards destruction.But that is not the> > >>

case.Jupiter> > >> tends> > >> > to stick to principles

even during adverse> situations.This> > >> behaviour> > >>

> makes him unable to protect.But his intention was> never to> > >>

destroy> > >> > nor the behaviour deserves destruction.> > >>

>> > >> > But if you take another example> > >> >

When Ravana abducted Sita ,his behaviour deserved> > >> destruction.>

> >> >> > >> > Though both the behaviours resulted(ends)

in the> > >> destruction of> > >> > the 'houses',the

means are not the same.> > >> >> > >> > Hence i believe

if we say Jupiter is unable to> protect> > >> the house> > >>

in> > >> > which it is placed,during all circumstances, it>

becomes less> > >> ambigue -> > >> > vis-a-vis its

nature,because destruction was never> intended.> > >> >> > >>

> Though the end result is same i feel there is a> > >>

difference in the> > >> > inherent meaning.> > >> >> >

>> > Kindly correct me if i am wrong.> > >> >> > >>

> Also should one learn something from this lesson -> to> > >>

live in> > >> Kali> > >> > Yuga!> > >> >> >

>> > Thanks and respect> > >> > Pradeep> > >>

>> > >> > vedic-> astrology ,

"Chandrashekhar> > >> Sharma"> > >> > <boxdel>

wrote:> > >> > > Dear Pradeep,> > >> > > Certain

principles are given by the sages and are> found> > >> to be> >

>> true> > >> > in their> > >> > > application.

Having said that, have you observed> that the> > >> children> > >>

> living> > >> > > with highly intelligent parents rarely

suceed?> This is> > >> what> > >> happens> > >>

> with> > >> > > Jupiter placement in a house. You will also>

not ,if one> > >> wants> > >> to go> > >> > to>

> >> > > Puranas that Deva's abode was attacked by the> Daanaavas>

> >> more> > >> often> > >> > than> > >>

> > other way round, though Brihaspati resided there.> Devas> > >>

invariably> > >> > got> > >> > > defeated and had to

be rescued by Mahadeva,> Vishnu,> > >> Durga etc.> > >> >

Saturn> > >> > > usually sided with the danavas and his samdharmi>

Rahu> > >> was their> > >> > Senapati.> > >> >

> About Saturn being good in bad houses has to do> with his> > >>

ability to> > >> > protect.> > >> > > He protects one

from bad indications of that> house.> > >> These are> > >>

my> > >> > personal> > >> > > opinions and other

worthies might have different> opinions.> > >> > >

Chandrashekhar.> > >> > >> > >> > > -------Original

Message-------> > >> > >> > >> > >

vedic astrology> > >> > > Monday, August 25,

2003 08:17:02 PM> > >> > > vedic astrology> >

>> > > [vedic astrology] Why is // Jupiter> capable of> >

>> destroying> > >> > the house> > >> > > it and

Saturn Protects//> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Chandrashekar

ji and learned members.> > >> > >> > >> > > I have seen

from the archives ,where you had> > >> participated in> > >>

> > discussions,that Jupiter has the capacity to> destroy> > >>

the bhava> > >> in> > >> > > which> > >> > >

it is placed and Saturn Protects.> > >> > >> > >> > >

Here I have some queries.> > >> > >> > >> > > What is

the reason for a benevolent planet like> jupiter> > >> to try> >

>> and> > >> > > harm> > >> > > or destroy.>

> >> > >> > >> > > Also i have read that saturn can be

good in bad> houses> > >> (6,8,12> > >> > etc) -> >

>> > > because ,saturn by nature is bad and hence bad> and bad> >

>> > > (negative,negative results in positive) should> bring> > >>

good. But> > >> if> > >> > > saturn> > >>

> > can protect all the houses where it is> placed ,then the> > >>

above> > >> > > statement> > >> > > loses ist

significance.Pls correct if my> understanding> > >> of this> > >>

> > 'negative-negative' is wrong.> > >> > >> > >>

> > When i try to understand the nature of jupiter -> I feel> > >>

it can> > >> test> > >> > > the> > >> > >

individual always on the path of life,which can be> > >> painfull

and> > >> > hard> > >> > > as> > >> > >

well at times. Why is this? Is it because such an> > >> individual>

> >> can> > >> > > combat> > >> > > the tests

and hardships,as jupiter gives him lots> of> > >> patience> > >>

and> > >> > > other> > >> > > mental strengths or

more concern for others? Am i> right?> > >> > >> > >> >

> But why is it trying to destroy?> > >> > >> > >> > >

Also doesn't other considerations like> > >> strength,position etc>

> >> come> > >> > > into> > >> > > play while

deciding on this?> > >> > >> > >> > > If you can

explain the inherent nature of> Jupiter, by> > >> virtue of> > >>

> > which> > >> > > it> > >> > > is trying to

behave like this, it would be> helpful.> > >> > >> > >>

> > Moreover i can give input on my real experiences> (good> > >>

and bad)> > >> > about> > >> > > jupiter placed in

ascendant.> > >> > >> > >> > > Thanks a lot> > >>

> > Pradeep> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >

>> > >> > > Sponsor> > >> > >> > >>

> >> > >> > >> > >> > > Archives:

vedic-> astrology> > >> > >> > >>

> > Group info: vedic-> > >>

astrology/info.html> > >> > >> > >> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > >> > > >

>> > >> > >> > > ........ May Jupiter's light shine on us

........> > >> > >> > >> > > || Om Tat Sat ||

Sarvam Sri> Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > >> > >> > >> >

> > > >> Terms of>

> >> Service.> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >

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mail to vedic astrology-> > >> > > >>

>> > >> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > >>

>> > >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri>

Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > >> >> > >> > Your use of

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mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

August 30, 2003

Thank you for this thread. I realize it's not easy to clearly get point accross

in complex issues like this one is- My understanding is- Ju can be both 'papa'

and 'benefic', depending on H.Lordship and aspects. And it's quite a success

that you've lead this thread without falling into black and white trap.

As a result, I also understand better your point, you've consistently

communicated to us, re bravity of shlokas- Ju in 1st for Ta and Ge /for

example/ brings benefits to fifth and seventh house, but not first . It seems

to be easily verifiable.

Thank you for all of this,

Chandrashekhar,

Best Regards,

AnnaChandrashekhar Sharma <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Amolmandar,

I had already said that the example of Guru/student/king is an aside from

astrology. However I am amazed at your interpretation of Bhagvadgita.Could you

intereprete what is the meaning of "Ashochyananva shochastvam pradnyavadasch

bhaashse, gatasunagatasunscha nanushochanti panditah"? Adhyaya2 Shloka 11 and

the subsequent shlokas 15,28 and so on. It would ,indeed, be interesting to see

the interpretation of these.

I am aware that there are many interpretations of the Holy Gita and that

sometimes people like to distort it to suit their meaning to the circumstances.

However this does not add to knowledge which we seek. I have seen people

claiming someone's being happy on receiving news of death of other as a mark of

yogi per Gita. I do not find the Lord saying this anywhere.

Anyway since you have decided that Jupiter helps the house in which he is

situated, without exception it is your prerogative and I would not like to

comment on it. I had only given what has been stated by Sages.

Hope this helps

Chandrashekhar.

amolmandar [amolmandar ]Sent:

Saturday, August 30, 2003 2:19 PMvedic astrologySubject:

[vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and

Saturn Protects//Chandrashekhar ji Namaste>I have said student /king feels

disturbed in presence of the Guru, >him being a displinaranian regarding study

and Dharma.This statement is not clear with the astrological context. In the

non-astrological sense as well why would student feel 'distrubed' in the

presence of Guru? It is ok if student has gone to Guru's place. i.e. School but

when Guru has come to the student house why student should feel distrubed? I

suppose it should be a occasion to celebrate. Your argument is valid only if

student has gone to Gurus

place. When Guru has come to your place student will never think of anything

that his Guru does not like. So there is no question of 'distrubed' feeling for

the student. So when Guru goes to a House(student) it must get protection from

the Guru. The capabilities of the House should become more expressive with the

blessings from the Guru. So Guru can be 'Anistha' unfavorable( and not harmful)

but certainly not when in your house.When I said all Gurus except Krishna faild

I wanted to say that in all the incidences of Mahabharat whenever there was a

conflict between 'good' and 'bad' in the presence of the Gurus, 'bad'

prevailed. Draupadi vastraharan, Dyuta-krida, Abhimanyu Vadha, and several

other things can be put, where, in the presence of all learned gurus, these

things happened. Possibly because of their lack of courage or big Ego. Krishna

did not fail because of Gita. He could change Arjunas mind to fight.As far as

Arjunas shoka is concerned, I think there is absolutly nothing wrong in Arjunas

reaction. Krishna never said not to grief on the death of near and dear ones.

Rather in the VAlmiki Ranmayana Rama himself grieved like a child so much so

that Lakshaman had to say some strong words to Rama. To express grief at the

death of near and dear is a must for every grihastha. The intensity and medium

of expression may vary. when Krishna said "Sukha Dukkha sam krutwa...". he said

with reference to Yudha. If we see the complete shloka then it would be

clear.SukhaDukhe Same Krutwa Labhalaboo Jayajayoo |tato Yudhaya Yujuyaswa

naivam papamvapyasi ||2.38||Treating Sukha-Dukha, Labha(Gain)-Hani(loss),

Jaya-PArajaya as same you should be ready for the war. So when your relatives

are ready for the war you should not act as a klib. you should not feel grief

on these relatives. But that does not mean that Arjuna should not haved

greived over the death of his own son with whom he had no fights. HAd Arjuna

expressed any grief over the death of relatives whom he himelf killed the war

then it could have been failure of Krishna. On the contarary Krishna has

further said "Niyatam Kuru karma tvam karma jyayo ayhakarmanaH|shariyatrapi cha

te na prasidhyedkarmanaH||"So I think Krishna has not failed in imparting

knowledge to Arjuna and neither Arjuna failed in implementing it because

Krishna (guru) was with him. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMAndar---

In vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma" <boxdel>

wrote:> Dear Amolmandar,> You are again missing the point. I have not said that

student does anything> bad. I have said student /king feels disturbed in

presence of the Guru, him> being a displinaranian regarding study and Dharma.

Thus the house does

not> express itself fully hence the specific Bharashta while indicating effect

of> Guru's joining a house. I have already stated that the example is meant

only> to amplify the concept and the example, though based on astrological>

concepts is not from an astrological work. Again I do not understand the>

concept of all Gurus other than Krishna failing in Mahabharata. Their> shishyas

might have failed as indeed they did including Arjuna. You know> that I do not

generally enter into debates based on perception of> scriptures. But let me

make it clear what I mean by Arjuna having failed.> Read Bhagvadgita and see

what te Lord told him to achieve. The lord asked> him to be a Yogi and

described attributes of Yogi. This included"Sukha> Dukkha sam krutwa...". Still

he grieved on death of Abhimanyu and swore> death to Jayadratha before the Sun

sets, a situation out of

which the Lord> had to retrieve him.And later, on death of his other sons and

those of> others, at end of the Yuddha when they were slain by Ashwatthama he

grieved> again.Now would you interprete this to mean that the Lord failed to

impart> knowledge about the indestructibility of Atman to Arjuna? One has to>

understand the difference between physical Guru and the Guru principle>

represented by Jupiter.> Hope this helps.> Chandrashekhar.> -----Original

Message-----> amolmandar [amolmandar]> Thursday,

August 28, 2003 12:15 PM> vedic astrology> Subject:

[vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the> house it and

Saturn Protects//> > > Chandrashekharji NAmaste> > Yes there was no

explicit reference of student/king as bad but tone> I thought was implicit

towards classifying student/king as bad.> > > > something which the Guru

forbids being bad.> > So even if we now take the last post still I am not

clear about> student/king as house and its youth and bad activity. What is

the> youth of a house? And what bad it performs which Guru being placed>

their forbids it to do so? Dont you think Guru fails because of ego> and lack

of courage? MAhabharat is the best example. Every Guru> except for Shri

Krishna, failed in Mahabharat because of either of> these qualities . SO

when ideal Guru(Shri Krishna) is with you, you> are bound to succeed. But the

company of semi-guru will create> problems. Astrology

I suppose must be considering Guru as ideal one.> That is why I feel,Guru

should never fail.> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.> >

AmolMAndar> vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar Sharma">

<boxdel> wrote:> > Dear Amol Mandar,> > Read the previous mail

carefully again. I have not said that> Student/King is> > bad. I have said

to see what student / king feel about a> displinarian Guru> > living with

him, though he understands that the lessons are for> his own> > good.> >

Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > amolmandar

[amolmandar]> > Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:42 PM> >

vedic astrology> > [vedic astrology] Re: Why is

// Jupiter capable of> destroying the> > house it and Saturn Protects//>

>> >> > Chandrashekhar ji Namaste> >> > Now some confusion. In the

analogy of student/king and> > teacher/minister why do we consider by

default,student or king> > as 'bad'? The Susthanas represent good and Guru

in that should> > protect their good and at least should not spoil the

effect.> > Moreover, why should we asume that everytime in the

presence of> Guru,> > student would be interested in doing something bad?

A good> student> > i.e. good house i.e. Susthana in the presence of Guru

should> enhance> > its capability. Therefore Guru should enhance Sthanas

capabilty.> If> > in Susthanas with consent and in Dusthanas without. As

it would> fail> > to make 'bad' student 'good'. At least Guru should have

that much> > discremination power. Or is it that in the case of Susthanas

i.e.> > with good student Guru fails because of his elevated ego? In that>

> case we can say that Guru will always fail. In the company of>

good> > student because of his big EGO and in the company of bad student>

> because of his lack of courage. As a matter of fact, if student> is> >

really bad then Guru must make him good and in the case of good> > student

Guru must appriciate student.> >> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.>

>> > AmolMAndar> >> >> > vedic astrology,

"Chandrashekhar Sharma"> > <boxdel> wrote:> > > Dear Amolmandar,>

> > I will give you an example outside astrology and

religion.Guru> > represents> > > Minister or the teacher . Now teacher

tells that which is> right.> > Students> > > many a times feel

unconfortable in the presence of the Teacher> as he> > > monitors their

behaviour, specially if in their youth they> want to> > do> Simialr is

the case with> > the king> > > whose ministers forbids him from doing

something that is> against> > RajDharma.> > > Now imagine House where

Jupiter is posited being the> student/King> > and>

> > Jupiter being the Teacher. The results for the house would be> clear.>

> > Of course , as I said earlier this is only my way at looking> at it> >

in order> > > to understand why this happens, and the Sages' principles

are> given> > to us as> > > such without the reasons behind them. We

have to apply our> Viveka> > to fathom> > > the logic behind it.Other

worthies might hold different views.> > > Hope this helps understand the

concept.> > > Chandrashekhar.> > > -----Original

Message-----> > > amolmandar [amolmandar]> > >

Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:39 PM> > > To:

vedic astrology> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Why

is // Jupiter capable of> > destroying the> > > house it and Saturn

Protects//> > >> > >> > > Chandrashekharji Namste> > >> >

> As usual you explained the things very lucidly but just> slight> >

doubt.> > > It is said many times

that Guru is Dharma (not religion) and> it> > is as> > > well said

that Guru tries to uphold Dharma but usually fails.> > Hence> > >

Dharma fails. But many say Dharma never fails. So Guru> should also> > >

never fail. Then why it fails with respect to house? Does> MAYA> > play>

> > any role in this?> > >> > >> > > Thanks a lot for your

Time and Space.> > >> > > AmolMAndar> >

>> > >> > > Sponsor> > >

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vedic astrology> > >> > > Group info:

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August 30, 2003

Dear Anna,

You explained it right.

Chandrashekhar.

AR [bona_mente ]Sunday,

August 31, 2003 9:11 AMvedic astrologySubject: RE:

[vedic astrology] Re: Why is // Jupiter capable of destroying the house it and

Saturn Protects//

Dear AmolMAndar,

It seems 'age gap' here prevents us from understanding!

People of my age, and older than me, I guess, can easily

see the point in this statement:

'>I have said student /king feels disturbed in presence of the Guru, >him being

a displinaranian regarding study and Dharma."In presence of Guru /master

teacher/ we used to feel a special type of 'discomfort' about what we know and

how much we've learnt, for HE may/is request more. And sure that goes with

pleasure of having HIM with us.

I still feel that 'respect and distance out of respect' for my professors even

though I am no longer 'lower' in my knowledge, at least officially :)I will

stop now,

before I carry this too far,

and say, 'new generations don't have enough respect for anything',

as we all have heard at one time or another!

Regards,

Anna