Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Namaste friends, The following mails are from a different list and were forwarded to me. I wanted to to that list and post the following response, as the question raised was very important. However, to my surprise, my subscription was not approved in three days. Nor was I informed why. It is not that I am dying to to that list and I anyway don't have much time to contribute to that list or to any list for that matter. Nevertheless, I am dismayed that some list owners want to shut off people whose views differ from theirs. It's a shame, a total disgrace. Anyway, I am posting the reply I wanted to post there here instead. It is not my loss if I am not allowed to join a particular list. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha -------------------------------- Namaste Ranjan, > Unless you are already aware of it, this is dealt in an article > by PVR Narasimha Rao in an issue in the Astrological > Magazine and in his text book. Thank you for referring to me. But what I have addressed in my articles and book is one aspect and what Praveen ji mentioned is quite another. Praveen ji asked a profound question and I'll attempt to answer. You can read a small article by me on the charts of Gaur twins mentioned by Praveen ji at: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/050200.htm Incidentally, this article was dedicated to Sri K.N. Rao, who seems to be active on this list. In this article, I showed how differences in some divisional charts made them significantly different in some areas of life. * * * However, the other question raised by Praveen ji is very interesting. He wrote: > But, how to explain their parents' life, which is same for both > of them, through different Navamsas and Dwadasamsas ? He noted that the twins have a different lagna in dwadasamsa (D-12) and wondered why it is so, given that both have the same parents. In fact, we can have a similar problem with non-twin siblings too. My D-12, my sister's D-12 and my brother's D-12 are significantly different (not just lagna, but the whole charts!). How come we have the same parents then? The answer, to me, is quite simple. One's D-12 does _not_ show everything about one's parents. It is not the chart of one's parents. It is still the _native's_ chart. It simply shows the _parental environment_ supporting one's existence. Rasi chart shows one's physical existence and various divisional charts show various environments that surround and support one's existence. For example, hora chart (D-2) shows one's financial environment. Dasamsa (D-10) chart shows one's professional environment. Vimsamsa (D-20) chart shows one's spiritual environment. Siddhamsa (D-24) chart shows one's learning environment. And so on. Similarly, dwadasamsa (D-12) shows one's parental environment. If parents are physically the same for two people, it does not mean their "parental environment" is the same. Their relationships with parents can be different and their perspectives on their parents can be different. That is what "parental environment" is all about and that is what D-12 shows. The physical existence of parents, on the other hand, is shown by the rasi charts of parents. The same thing holds in the case of saptamsa (D-7), which shows one's children according to Parasara. A child's mother and father may have different indications regarding that same child, in their respective D-7's. It is perfectly fine. A father and a mother may have different perspectives on (and different relations with) the same child. Thus, just because two people have the same parents or the same children, you cannot expect their D-12 or D-7 to be the same or even similar. * * * When we explain the differences between twins, or, for that matter, when we explain any chart, one very important factor that most of us almost always ignore is shashtyamsa (D-60). I know twins who have all the divisional charts upto D-60 being the same, with only D-60 being different out of shodasa vargas (16 divisions). But they have totally varying fortunes and different lives! Clearly, D-60 is indispensable, if one were to be rational and scientific. In fact, Parasara also evidently felt the same. Parasara explained that the rasi chart shows physical existence, hora chart shows the financial environment under which one leads one's existence, dasamsa chart shows the professional environment under which one leads one's existence and so on. When he came to D-60, Parasara simply said: "shashtyamsekhilameekshayet" (everything be seen in D-60). He did not say that even regarding the rasi chart! If D-60 is a chart in which everything is seen, clearly it is an important chart. In fact, the importance of D-60 was brought out by Parasara clearly again, when he discussed vimsopaka bala. In dasa varga scheme (which is the most important in normal human births - shat, sapta and shodasa vargas are more important in mundane, electional and royal horoscopy), Parasara gave a weightage of 5 to D-60, 3 to rasi and 1.5 to navamsa. Thus, D-60 is more important than rasi and navamsa put together! Even in shodasa varga (important in royal horoscopy), D-60 gets a higher weightage in vimsopaka bala than rasi as well as navamsa. Clearly, Parasara gave indications in multiple places that D-60 is a very key chart. I was taught that the D-60 chart shows the exact karma that is to be experienced in one's lifetime, as a result of one's accumulated past karma. Rasi chart showing the physical existence and various divisional charts showing various environments merely show the *medium* through which this karma has to be experienced!! The karma to be experienced is seen clearly from D-60 alone. As long as we ignore D-60, we cannot hope to have a consistent, logical and rational set of principles. * * * I will give an example of D-60 analysis. Let us take the D-60 chart of Sri K.N. Rao. The chart is as follows: Lagna in Ar; Venus in Ta; Jupiter & Ketu in Le; Sun & Mars in Li; Saturn in Sg; Mercury in Cp; Rahu in Aq; Moon in Pi. Ketu is in the 5th house with Jupiter (just like in my D-60 chart). Ketu's Moola dasa during 1963-1968 must've given excellent scholarship and experiences in spiritual subjects and astrology. The 6th (service) lord Mercury is in 10th (career). His Moola dasa ran during 1953-1958. His career may have started then. Venus is in own sign in the 2nd house of astrology. He became a famous astrologer in Venus Moola dasa (1992-2004). Thus, D-60 shows "everything" as Parasara said and shows some karma that _must_ be experienced. It can be used in conjunction with other divisional charts and rasi chart, which show the medium (physical existence and various environments) through which this karma is experienced. Moola dasa taught by Varahamihira and Kalyana Verma is excellent for seeing when each karma shown by D-60 fructifies. Moola means "root" and moola dasa shows the root cause of whatever happens in one's life, viz the accumulated karma behind each event. May Jupiter's light shine on us, PVR Narasimha Rao > Praveen Kumar > Thursday, November 20, 2003 9:33 AM> Twin Problem> > Dear Members,> Problem of twins perplexes many in astrology. I too couldn't resolve it many times. Here is a case study of two brothers Satyam and Shivam born two minutes apart (picked from other source) :> > Time of Birth : 4:06 pm (Satyam), 4:08 pm (Sivam) ; DOB: 04.11.1970 ; POB : 76E53, 30N44 > (1) Satyam has a solid health. Sivam has a poor health and has several problems including some kidney problems (stones in kidneys). > (2) Satyam is easy-going, optimistic, friendly and jovial. Sivam is a gloomy and serious person without trust in others. Sivam is a skeptic with no trust in subjects like astrology. > (3) Satyam was a brilliant student. He was good at commerce and accounting. Sivam was a mediocre student except in Maths.> > Here lagna in Navamsa, Dwadasamsa and some other vargas change to the next one. Thus difference in their destiny can be explained well. But, how to explain their parents' life, which is same for both of them, through different Navamsas and Dwadasamsas ? Destinies are interlinked and we can peep into parents life, atleast to some extent, through their children's horoscopes. Similar other problems are often observed in twins' cases which is, I consider, acid-test for astrology and astrologers.> > Learned members are requested to comment upon.> > Praveen Kumar (Mumbai, India) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Dear Narasimha Raoji I was having this question in mind.Two children from the same parents and how to conclude about parents. Your answer was very informative.Moreover i would like to add that the parental environments mentioned by you is very relevant.Because even from my limited experience i could find that if Mars is present in mathrusthana for one child and moon for another child.Both will experience totally different environments. For example the first child may be deprived of certain motherly environments like breast milk, or has to stay away from the mother for some time.Also i have read Chandrashekarji saying that Mars could result in a ceasarian section. For the other child he may enjoy all the motherly environments and his birth could have been through a normal delivery. Thanks again Pradeep Thus In vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote: > Namaste friends, > > The following mails are from a different list and were forwarded to me. I wanted to to that list and post the following response, as the question raised was very important. However, to my surprise, my subscription was not approved in three days. Nor was I informed why. It is not that I am dying to to that list and I anyway don't have much time to contribute to that list or to any list for that matter. > > Nevertheless, I am dismayed that some list owners want to shut off people whose views differ from theirs. It's a shame, a total disgrace. > > Anyway, I am posting the reply I wanted to post there here instead. It is not my loss if I am not allowed to join a particular list. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > -------------------------------- > Namaste Ranjan, > > > Unless you are already aware of it, this is dealt in an article > > by PVR Narasimha Rao in an issue in the Astrological > > Magazine and in his text book. > > Thank you for referring to me. But what I have addressed in my articles and book is one aspect and what Praveen ji mentioned is quite another. Praveen ji asked a profound question and I'll attempt to answer. > > You can read a small article by me on the charts of Gaur twins mentioned by Praveen ji at: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/050200.htm > > Incidentally, this article was dedicated to Sri K.N. Rao, who seems to be active on this list. In this article, I showed how differences in some divisional charts made them significantly different in some areas of life. > > * * * > > However, the other question raised by Praveen ji is very interesting. He wrote: > > > But, how to explain their parents' life, which is same for both > > of them, through different Navamsas and Dwadasamsas ? > > He noted that the twins have a different lagna in dwadasamsa (D-12) and wondered why it is so, given that both have the same parents. > > In fact, we can have a similar problem with non-twin siblings too. My D-12, my sister's D-12 and my brother's D-12 are significantly different (not just lagna, but the whole charts!). How come we have the same parents then? > > The answer, to me, is quite simple. One's D-12 does _not_ show everything about one's parents. It is not the chart of one's parents. It is still the _native's_ chart. It simply shows the _parental environment_ supporting one's existence. Rasi chart shows one's physical existence and various divisional charts show various environments that surround and support one's existence. For example, hora chart (D-2) shows one's financial environment. Dasamsa (D-10) chart shows one's professional environment. Vimsamsa (D-20) chart shows one's spiritual environment. Siddhamsa (D-24) chart shows one's learning environment. And so on. > > Similarly, dwadasamsa (D-12) shows one's parental environment. If parents are physically the same for two people, it does not mean their "parental environment" is the same. Their relationships with parents can be different and their perspectives on their parents can be different. That is what "parental environment" is all about and that is what D-12 shows. The physical existence of parents, on the other hand, is shown by the rasi charts of parents. > > The same thing holds in the case of saptamsa (D-7), which shows one's children according to Parasara. A child's mother and father may have different indications regarding that same child, in their respective D-7's. It is perfectly fine. A father and a mother may have different perspectives on (and different relations with) the same child. > > Thus, just because two people have the same parents or the same children, you cannot expect their D-12 or D-7 to be the same or even similar. > > * * * > > When we explain the differences between twins, or, for that matter, when we explain any chart, one very important factor that most of us almost always ignore is shashtyamsa (D-60). I know twins who have all the divisional charts upto D-60 being the same, with only D-60 being different out of shodasa vargas (16 divisions). But they have totally varying fortunes and different lives! Clearly, D-60 is indispensable, if one were to be rational and scientific. > > In fact, Parasara also evidently felt the same. Parasara explained that the rasi chart shows physical existence, hora chart shows the financial environment under which one leads one's existence, dasamsa chart shows the professional environment under which one leads one's existence and so on. When he came to D-60, Parasara simply said: "shashtyamsekhilameekshayet" (everything be seen in D-60). He did not say that even regarding the rasi chart! If D-60 is a chart in which everything is seen, clearly it is an important chart. > > In fact, the importance of D-60 was brought out by Parasara clearly again, when he discussed vimsopaka bala. In dasa varga scheme (which is the most important in normal human births - shat, sapta and shodasa vargas are more important in mundane, electional and royal horoscopy), Parasara gave a weightage of 5 to D-60, 3 to rasi and 1.5 to navamsa. Thus, D-60 is more important than rasi and navamsa put together! Even in shodasa varga (important in royal horoscopy), D-60 gets a higher weightage in vimsopaka bala than rasi as well as navamsa. Clearly, Parasara gave indications in multiple places that D- 60 is a very key chart. > > I was taught that the D-60 chart shows the exact karma that is to be experienced in one's lifetime, as a result of one's accumulated past karma. Rasi chart showing the physical existence and various divisional charts showing various environments merely show the *medium* through which this karma has to be experienced!! The karma to be experienced is seen clearly from D-60 alone. As long as we ignore D-60, we cannot hope to have a consistent, logical and rational set of principles. > > * * * > > I will give an example of D-60 analysis. > > Let us take the D-60 chart of Sri K.N. Rao. The chart is as follows: > > Lagna in Ar; Venus in Ta; Jupiter & Ketu in Le; Sun & Mars in Li; Saturn in Sg; Mercury in Cp; Rahu in Aq; Moon in Pi. > > Ketu is in the 5th house with Jupiter (just like in my D-60 chart). Ketu's Moola dasa during 1963-1968 must've given excellent scholarship and experiences in spiritual subjects and astrology. The 6th (service) lord Mercury is in 10th (career). His Moola dasa ran during 1953-1958. His career may have started then. Venus is in own sign in the 2nd house of astrology. He became a famous astrologer in Venus Moola dasa (1992-2004). > > Thus, D-60 shows "everything" as Parasara said and shows some karma that _must_ be experienced. It can be used in conjunction with other divisional charts and rasi chart, which show the medium (physical existence and various environments) through which this karma is experienced. Moola dasa taught by Varahamihira and Kalyana Verma is excellent for seeing when each karma shown by D-60 fructifies. Moola means "root" and moola dasa shows the root cause of whatever happens in one's life, viz the accumulated karma behind each event. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > PVR Narasimha Rao > > > Praveen Kumar > > Thursday, November 20, 2003 9:33 AM > > Twin Problem > > > > Dear Members, > > Problem of twins perplexes many in astrology. I too couldn't resolve it many times. Here is a case study of two brothers Satyam and Shivam born two minutes apart (picked from other source) : > > > > Time of Birth : 4:06 pm (Satyam), 4:08 pm (Sivam) ; DOB: 04.11.1970 ; POB : 76E53, 30N44 > > (1) Satyam has a solid health. Sivam has a poor health and has several problems including some kidney problems (stones in kidneys). > > (2) Satyam is easy-going, optimistic, friendly and jovial. Sivam is a gloomy and serious person without trust in others. Sivam is a skeptic with no trust in subjects like astrology. > > (3) Satyam was a brilliant student. He was good at commerce and accounting. Sivam was a mediocre student except in Maths. > > > > Here lagna in Navamsa, Dwadasamsa and some other vargas change to the next one. Thus difference in their destiny can be explained well. But, how to explain their parents' life, which is same for both of them, through different Navamsas and Dwadasamsas ? Destinies are interlinked and we can peep into parents life, atleast to some extent, through their children's horoscopes. Similar other problems are often observed in twins' cases which is, I consider, acid-test for astrology and astrologers. > > > > Learned members are requested to comment upon. > > > > Praveen Kumar (Mumbai, India) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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