Guest guest Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 MillionPaths, Jason Spock <jedi_spock> wrote: Creations Columns by Nanditha Krishna The equals of men I was recently researching the women of ancient India when I came across a startling piece of information. Seventeen of the Seers to whom the hymns of the Rig Veda were revealed were women — Rishikas and Brahmavadinis. They were Romasa, Lopamudra, Apata, Kadru, Vishvavara, Ghosha, Juhu, Vagambhrini, Paulomi, Jarita, Shraddha- Kamayani, Urvashi, Sharnga, Yami, Indrani, Savitri and Devayani. The Sama Veda mentions another four: Nodha (or Purvarchchika), Akrishtabhasha, Shikatanivavari (or Utararchchika) and Ganpayana. This intrigued me so much that I had to learn more about them, but I drew a blank. Who were these wonderful women who were on par with their men and produced the greatest and longest living literature of the world? In the Vedic period, female brahmavadinis (students) went through the same rigorous discipline as their male counterparts, the brahmacharis. The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad describes a ritual to ensure the birth of a daughter who would become a pandita (scholar). The Vedas say that an educated girl should be married to an equally educated man. Girls underwent the upanayana or thread ceremony, Vedic study and savitri vachana (higher studies). Panini says that women studied the Vedas equally with men. According to the Shrauta and Grihya Sutras, the wife repeated the Vedic mantras equally with their husbands at religious ceremonies. The Purva Mimamsa gave women equal rights with men to perform religious ceremonies. Vedic society was generally monogamous, and women had an equal place. There are several instances of individual women who sought to educate themselves. Pathyasvasti went North to study and obtain titles. The well-known lady philosopher, brahmavadini Gargi Vachaknavi, was an invitee to the world's first conference on philosophy, convened by King Janaka of Videha, and challenged Yajnavalkya to a public debate. Her acknowledgement of defeat and praise of Yajnavalkya induced the king to gift him 1,000 cows and 10,000 gold pieces, which Yajnavalkya rejected and retired to the forest, followed by his wife Maitreyi, an equally educated and spirited woman. There were shaktikis or female spear bearers according to Patanjali's Mahabhashya, and women soldiers armed with bows and arrows in the Mauryan army, according to Kautilya's Arthashastra. The Greek Ambassador Megasthenes mentions Chandragupta Maurya's armed female bodyguard. Thus education was not the only vocation for women. The heroines of the epic period are better known. Sita and Draupadi were highly educated, powerful and determined women. But the debasement of the status of women had begun. Sita had to undergo an Agni pariksha — an ordeal through fire — to prove her purity. In the Uttara Ramayana, a later interpolation that is illustrative of changing mores, she was cast off by her husband to assuage palace gossip. She finally "entered the earth", a euphemism for suicide. In spite of her five husbands, Draupadi was staked and lost in a game of dice, disrobed and publicly humiliated. The men of the Ramayana and Mahabharata had several wives, an indication of the lowering status of women. Rules of morality were stringent for women, and even the fact that she was deceived could not save Ahalya from her husband's curse. Kannagi, in the Tamil epic Silappadigaram, is married to Kovalan, who abandons her for a dancing girl Madhavi. On losing all his money, he is kicked out by Madhavi. His faithful wife takes him back and they go to Madurai, where he visits the public parks filled with dancing girls and later pawns Kannagi's anklet. When he is falsely accused of theft and executed, Kannagi should have heaved a sigh of relief. Instead, she curses the city to be destroyed by fire. Thus a wonderful city and its inhabitants were destroyed for a useless man. Jayalalithaa, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, did well to remove Kannagi's statue from Marina Beach in Chennai. She was no role model. Manimekhalai, daughter of Kovalan and Madhavi, was far better. Refusing to become a courtesan, the profession of her birth, she became a nun and Buddhist philosopher. Kannagi is used as a role model to justify polygamy and a patriarchal society, teaching women that suffering and patience is synonymous with goodness. To escape the growing harshness of society, many women joined the Buddhist and Jaina orders of nuns, which gave them opportunities for social service and public life. Vishakha, Amrapali and Supriya gave the Buddha hospitality and financial support. Uppalavanna became a teacher of younger bhikkunis. There were thirteen theiris among the Buddha's chief disciples, the most famous being Dhammadinna, a teacher of religion, Soma of Rajagriha, the beautiful heiresses Anupama and Sundari, queen Khema, wealthy Sujata, Chapa the chastened wife, Patachara the bereaved mother, Sukka the preacher, and Kisagautami, superintendent of the Jetavana convent. Ajja Chandana was Mahavira's first female disciple, the others being Mallinatha the Mithila princess, Jayanti and Mrigavati of Kaushambi, Sthulabhadra's seven sisters and Yakkini Mahattara. The new faiths gave them a freedom and dignity they missed as wives, mothers, daughters and concubines. The most interesting women are the panchakanya, five women immortalized for their chastity and purity: Ahalya (wife of sage Gautama), Draupadi, Tara (wife of both Vali and Sugriva), Kunti and Mandodari. Four of these women were forced to marry, or be associated with, more than one man by forces beyond their control. The idea developed that a pure heart was stronger than physical chastity. But the freedom of choice given to the Vedic women had gone. Women had to follow the dictates of their family and society, while men had the freedom to have several wives and concubines. Creativity came to the rescue for many women, as religion and temple building were their only refuge. Shaiva and Vaishnava saint- poetesses of the early bhakti movement in Tamil Nadu include great women like the Shaivites Avvai, Tilakavati, Mangaiyarkarasi and Karaikkal Ammaiyar, and the Vaishnava mystic Andal. Rajasimha Pallava and his wife Rangapataka jointly built the Kailasanatha temple at Kanchipuram. Sembiyan Mahadevi, widow of Gangaraditya Chola, renovated and built several temples. Kundavai, sister of Rajaraja Chola I, built temples at Rajarajapuram. Lokamahadevi, wife of Vikramaditya II Chalukya of Badami, built the Lokeshwara temple at Pattadakkal. But these were fortunate women who had education, wealth and status. The vast majority were wives and chattels. Islamic rule in North India saw a sharp decline in the status of women, now relegated to the veil, both as an influence of the new dispensation as well as for their personal protection. Jauhar protected Rajput women from captivity. If women came out of the confines of the home, the new court culture made them either entertainers or chattels, both highly degrading positions. Thousand years of the purdah was to have a highly detrimental effect on women, something from which the northern states have yet to recover. Religion and creativity, once again, came to the rescue of a few. Lalla, a Kashmiri Shaivite ascetic, preached absolute dependence on divine will and devotion to one's duty. The Rajput princess Meera is the best known, composing beautiful and eternal poetry. All the states of India had great women saint-poetesses, such as Mahadaisa, Muktibai, Janabai, Bahinabai, Venabai and Akkabai of Maharashtra who composed abhangs and kirtans. There were few women rulers: Razia Sultana, Chand Bibi, Rani Chinnammal, Rani Lakshmibai, and perhaps a couple more. But they were left out of civil society and development. We had to wait for the 20th century to achieve that. So next time we look for role models, let us look carefully and make sure the message they convey is correct. We have to go back 5000 years to find women who fit 21st century hopes and aspirations. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. --- End forwarded message --- Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Namaste, Sri Tonyji, The article is very informative. <<<Kannagi should have heaved a sigh of relief. Instead, she curses the city to be destroyed by fire. Thus a wonderful city and its inhabitants were destroyed for a useless man. Jayalalithaa, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, did well to remove Kannagi's statue from Marina Beach in Chennai. She was no role model. >> Very correct. The statue, it seems, will now be reinstalled by the successors of Jayalalitha! Warm Regards Tony OClery <aoclery > wrote: MillionPaths, Jason Spock <jedi_spock> wrote: Creations Columns by Nanditha Krishna The equals of men I was recently researching the women of ancient India when I came across a startling piece of information. Seventeen of the Seers to whom the hymns of the Rig Veda were revealed were women — Rishikas and Brahmavadinis. They were Romasa, Lopamudra, Apata, Kadru, Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice. --- End forwarded message --- Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Moderator's Note: The discussions on this thread seems to be drifting away from the original intent. We are all bounded by our subjective perceptions and such perceptions vary between individuals and we perceive differently at different points of time. Ref 31352 Dear Mani-ji, Thanx for bringing this wonderful article to our attention. Tony-ji thanx for posting tjhis informative article here ! May i have your consent to post it in our group 'divinely female'? Thanx in anticiptation! Now , as far as the sentence on 'Kannagi' being a useless Role model, i beg to differ ..... One has to know the entire context of the story ( Silapathikaram) to pass judgement on a woman like Kannagi! It is all about knowing the 'culture' of those times in the Sangam period. As far as Smt. Jayalalitha is concerned, Amma ( as she is called) is no great role model, either. How can you expect me to have any respect for Smt. Jayalalitha who sent the Shankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti mutt Jayendra Saraswathy Swamigal, to jail , under a false pretext ? so , it makes no difference to me whether she removed the statue of Kannagi from the Marina Beach for i am happy Smt. Jayalalitha herself has been 'removed' from her leadership role in Tamizhnadu. Many supporters of Smt.Jayalalitha may claim she did a lot of 'good' to the citizens of Tamizhnadu but obviously the 'bad' she did outweighed the 'good' - so she is out of power and out of 'luck' - sorry! Forgive me , if i am hurting the sentiments of Amma's supporters! As far as 'Kannagi' is concerned , it is true that her husband Kovalan committed a one-time aberration of leaving Kannagi and falling into the hands of dancing girl Madhavi! Here is the story in a nutshell and you please decide whether Kannagis wrath and anger was unjustified! When Kovalan lost all his wealth and property to his concubine Madhavi, the dancing girl dumped him. Kannagi , the faithful wife , accepted Kovalan back into her life and tried to help him start a new business by giving Kovalan all her personal jewellery including her Silver Anklets. (Siambu) In the meantime, the queen of Pandiyan King Nedunchezhiyan,lost her anklets ("Silambu"). Actually, the court Jeweller had robbed the queen's anklets. Once the wicked jeweller happened to see Kovalan with Kannagi's anklets in the market. He seized the anklet from Kovalan and informed the king about it. The king sent gaurds to arrest Kovalan. Kovalan was accused of having stolen the queen's anklets and was killed as per the king's order. When Kannagi came to know about the news, she went out into the town,with her eyes ablaze with anger, carrying the remaining anklet in her hand as proof of her husband's innocence. She made the king realise the truth by breaking her anklet which was made of Manickam. (gem)When Pandiyan king came to know that he had punished an innocent ,he died in his throne by saying "Oh! I am the thief and he is not the thief". The queen also died at that spot.Kannagi burnt Madurai into ashes in consequence to the injustice caused to her husband Kovalan. so, Tonyji , have you not heard of the saying ' Nothing like a woman scorned' So, it is not that Kannagi burnt Madurai city for a uselss man ! The city was burnt out of wrath and anger for punishing unjustly an innocent and loyal woman's husband for a crime he did not commit ! This was more a judgement on the faulty and shortsighted Ruler Neduncheziyan who as a king did not conduct a proper probe before killing an innocent man like Kovalan! Kaanagi was a 'pativrata' stri who was willing to forgive her husband for his moral trespasses but she was unable to forgive the ruler of Madurai for his lack of judgement and dereliction of his duties as a Royal king ! so , the statue was to honor her role mole as an *ideal woman* ?(faithful wife-pativrata sthri) who stood by her husband in good times and bad ! Silapathikaram ( the story of the Anklets) is considered classic sangam literature ! it is poetry at its best. A simple story told in a classic style with moral overtones. Kannagi , the heroine, of the story is very popular and every good actress wants to do this role! Maniji and Tonyji, Why did the Mahabharata war take place? Have you all forgotton the 'disrobing' of Draupadi by the Kauravas ?The entire clan of kuru dynasty and pandu dynasty perished in that war over an unjust humiliation caused to Draupadi, the queen of pandavas ! What about Helen of Troy ? Her beautiful face launched a thousand ships. The moral of the Silapathikaram story is this 1) a ruler should always rule justly . 2) an ideal woman always defends her husband against injustice. 3) It was bad Karma that a whole city had to pay for meting out injustice to a woman in all fairness, in defence of a woman scorned > The article is very informative. > <<<Kannagi should have heaved a sigh of relief. Instead, she curses the city to be destroyed by fire. Thus a > wonderful city and its inhabitants were destroyed for a useless man. Jayalalithaa, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, did well to remove Kannagi's statue from Marina Beach in Chennai. She was no role model. >> > Very correct. Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani > wrote: Namaste, Sri Tonyji, The article is very informative. <<<Kannagi should have heaved a sigh of relief. Instead, she curses the city to be destroyed by fire. Thus a wonderful city and its inhabitants were destroyed for a useless man. Jayalalithaa, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, did well to remove Kannagi's statue from Marina Beach in Chennai. She was no role model. >> Very correct. The statue, it seems, will now be reinstalled by the successors of Jayalalitha! From Sankarraman The action of Kannaki should not be judged from Western standards. The view is very biased in judging Kannaki. Nor can we appreciate the chicanery of politicians whose standards are continuously changing to curry the favour of the gullible. Let people not sit in judgment of the tradition of Hindus. If we superficially study the lives of people, we can make similar statements about Jesus, which would only smack of our ignorance. We can confine ourselves to philosophical thoughts, and not indulge in insinuations of individuals. Sankarraman Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Hari OM!. > Dear DhyanaSaraswathiji, Well said, but nowadays very rarely seen this kind of woman! may be can count with our fingers! Now a days Tamizhnadu, even India is paying back for the arrest of our Kanchi Acharyal, like tsunami... and what are all things to be seen in future only GOD knows. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad The moral of the Silapathikaram story is this > > 1) a ruler should always rule justly . > > 2) an ideal woman always defends her husband against injustice. > > 3) It was bad Karma that a whole city had to pay for meting out > injustice to a woman > > in all fairness, in defence of a woman scorned > > > > > > > Krishna Prasad > > Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' > if we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. > > As Poojya Gurudev said it, > > "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. > Spread your wings and fly!" > > Swami Chinmayananda > > Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an > excess of hatred." > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Namaste, Yes please. I fully agree and we should refrain from such approach. I make a note and will be careful not to subject myself to any provacation. Warm regards Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran > wrote: "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani > wrote: Namaste, Sri Tonyji, The article is very informative. <<<Kannagi should have heaved a sigh of relief. Instead, she curses the city to be destroyed by fire. Thus a wonderful city and its inhabitants were destroyed for a useless man. Jayalalithaa, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, did well to remove Kannagi's statue from Marina Beach in Chennai. She was no role model. >> Very correct. The statue, it seems, will now be reinstalled by the successors of Jayalalitha! From Sankarraman The action of Kannaki should not be judged from Western standards. The view is very biased in judging Kannaki. Nor can we appreciate the chicanery of politicians whose standards are continuously changing to curry the favour of the gullible. Let people not sit in judgment of the tradition of Hindus. If we superficially study the lives of people, we can make similar statements about Jesus, which would only smack of our ignorance. We can confine ourselves to philosophical thoughts, and not indulge in insinuations of individuals. Sankarraman Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 advaitin, "dhyanasaraswati" <dhyanasaraswati> wrote: > Thanx for bringing this wonderful article to our attention. Tony-ji > thanx for posting tjhis informative article here ! May i have your > consent to post it in our group 'divinely female'? Thanx in > anticiptation! Namaste All, I posted this article without prejudice, so anybody can post it as it is from the Veda. Of course women and men are equal to think otherwise is dualistic to the extreme..............ONS....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 congrats for the article On Tue, 16 May 2006 Tony OClery wrote : >advaitin, "dhyanasaraswati" ><dhyanasaraswati> wrote: > > Thanx for bringing this wonderful article to our attention. Tony-ji > > thanx for posting tjhis informative article here ! May i have your > > consent to post it in our group 'divinely female'? Thanx in > > anticiptation! > >Namaste All, > >I posted this article without prejudice, so anybody can post it as it >is from the Veda. Of course women and men are equal to think otherwise >is dualistic to the extreme..............ONS....Tony. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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