Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Thank you for patiently answering Mukund. Dear Narasimha, Can we stop people from posting anything which does not encourage the study of Astrology on this list. If people do not believe in Astrology they can go elsewhere and pursue their materialistic pleasures. Also, if they have some form of "IDENTITY CRISIS", I think they should find a different forum to get their problem fixed rather than wasting time/data/disk space/energy of many enthusiastic (to-be)astrologers on this list. Please consider. Regards, Sai Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com>Date: 2004/02/09 12:07:31Vedic Astrology <vedic astrology>Cc: moksha & Everything...Dear Mukund:You bring up some very interesting features of Jyotish.Please see below:> "monmuk111" <monmuk111 >> Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:29:02 -0000> vedic astrology> 2-[vedic astrology] & Venkat...2/6.... Re: Free will, karma and > moksha> > Hello Mark and other believers in astrology:> > You talk about "possiblities through each planet." How can a planet > millions and millons of light years away affect the lives of a human > being here on Earth.We see all the times,! how celestial objects though they're millions of miles awayeffect the Earth.The Moon we're the most aware of. It creates our Ocean's tides, for goodness sake.And any woman will tell you her very physiology is connected to the Moon. Lady's cycle is a lunar cycle.I was also watching a nature channel last year and they were discussing this particular shell fish and it's birthing habits. The show said that every full Moon in February, this particular sea animal swims back to this particular cove off the coast of Thailand every February Full Moon.Not only does the Moon effect the Earth, but this example alone...shows that the effects are unique and particular too.Then, there's the Sun...which all the news stations announced we should be aware because a certain Sun spot that was erupting would soon be arriving and hitting our Earth and previous experience has shown that these phenomena disturb communications satellite! s and even cable and communications locally.Now, I do understa nd your question though in terms of other Stars...which are literally billions and trillions of miles away. One day I came across an Astronomy book that talked about the main star Antares that's a red giant in the Sign of Scorpio which indeed, is in our Astrological loop. Well, it made the point that it's soooo huge... that literally millions of our Sun's would fit within it's circumference. In fact, it's so big that you'd have to visualize the space between the Sun..and the Planet Mars.. to be able to conceive about how big it is.I thought, well no wonder every month when the Moon moves into Scorpio...no wonder that we can feel it.And that gets to my next point.There is much that we don't understand about life. But, one thing I know for sure, Reality is much more strange and beautiful .... vast ...then we have any idea.The other thing I've done for over 16 years...is I've studied...the Jyotish/ the transi! ts of each and every day.This research...which anyone can follow...so vividly...shows...how real the predictable effects are according to Jyotish...and though we may not quite no the mechanism... how these results come to us... but we can verify their validity.> > There is nothing on these planets except dust and/or thick sheets of > ice. How can these have ANY effect on a human being?> > How can chanting mantras have any effect on a planet millions of > miles away.When we do anything of a remedial measure in hope's of improving the quality or strength of any Astrological planet...You have to remember.... this Astrological symbolism of the Planets... is not supposed...to move or effect this huge body outside of our Self...but to change and improve something about ourselves!The Planets and their Astrological symbolisms.... refer to us!The Sun...represe! nts our Self.....!...The Moon represents our feeling ....self. ....When we talk about the Moon... being out there...and having a relationship with in here!This means...that the Moon...is symbolic as well as literal, physical effecting...us....The Moon stands for our 'feeling nature'...and the idea is very simple... that the picture of the Moon on the exact day of our birth...is representative...of the status, strenghth and even quality...of our emotional nature.This 'idea' in Jyotish would be very easy to test. Make a list/group of 1,000 individuals.Give them a battery of common, modern psychological questions related to emotional stability,and we'll see an amazing correlation between their answers and their real emotional strength, and the Moons in their birth charts.Most mantras involve making ridiculous sounds from one's > mouth while sitting in front of a picture or a stone idol?Obviously here, you are just ignora! nt of the powerful and very real, positive effects ofVedic mantras. Anyone who's ever experienced meditation using mantras will tell youthey have very real and powerful effects.Also, if there's any area of Vedic wisdom that's been the most powerfully studied according to modern science, it's in the area of mantra repetition and meditation.check out, there are over 550 scientific studies that have been done, by very reputable, independent scientific groups and published in the best journals in the world, from Scientific American to Science magazine...on and on...And these show the power of mantra meditation to make tremendous, powerful changes in human physiology, lowering high blood pressure, to reducing stress, and even Psychological changes, and even IQ...is improved though this is a benfit that comes from slightly longer duration of mantra practice.These > planets appear human like in the pictures(Rahu w! ith a Black, angry > face and big moustche, Jupiter with a hand som face with no moustace--> does this mean Jupiter shaves and Rahu doesn't?). Why don't we > worship before a REAL picture of Jupiter or Saturn where they look > ROUND with astroid mark all over them. > > How about real pictures of Rahu and Ketu??? Well, Rahu and Ketu > are "pretend planets" so they won't have a real picture. And, if R&K > are "pretend planets," then why do they have a Mahadasa? -- Do you > guys realize how irrational this sound? > > How can wearing planetary stones have any effect on one's life or how > can it affect the planet itself?????Again, have you ever had any experience with these things?Many millions of people for centuries..have documented by there personal experiences...the beneficial effects of things like gems.Personally, I don't think gems are as powerful as some jyotish remedies but still they'revery real.Do you realize how ridiculous > the planetary stones are???? Jupiter looks yellowish red from Earth, > but the acutal color of Jupiter is same as the color of dust in any > other planet SO why is a YELLOW stone prescribed to FIX Jupiter > problems when the REAL color of Jupite isn't really yellow? > > Moon just appears WHITE, but the real color of MOON is brown so why > is a white pearl prescribed to FIX Moon problems, why isn't a BROWN > colored stone worn for Moon when Brown is its real color?> > How about the deaded sade-sati? How can world's 3/12 population just > began to have the wrost time of their life ALL AT THE SAME TIME? Sade sat doesn't mean everyone at the same time. But, if you watch the Moon,especially in terms of the Transits...you'd know that Saturn, for example has an extraordinary effect on the human heartand feeling! nature...(ie the Moon).I can send you dozens of my students w ho individually can verify these experiences...And > how can wearing of an iron ring or making ridiculous sounding noises > from one's mouth in form of mantras APEASE an INANIMATE planet of > dust and ice a million light years away?Don't forget the remedial measures...aren't meant to try and effect a celestial body..out there...but ...the nature of ourselves...inside,...here...But, this symbolism of Astrology.... that 'we' are made up out of Star stuff...That we, all have a nature...that Astrology quite nicely captures...speaks to the very heart of Astorlogy.I'm writing a book right now on Astrology...and the main aspect of this book is thatthere is an amazing correlation between the symbolisms....of Astrology...and the very real and undeniable nature of individuals...I'd challenge you to any test...regarding this...Put together a list o! f 10, 100 or 1,000 people and any good Jyotish Astrologerwill be able to guess what their human nature is like!> > Planets control nothing, planets harms nobody, planets help nobody. > And, it they do then how are we going to account for millions and > millions of other planets (in addition to the 7 known)in the galaxy.> > And, Moon isn't even a planet, it is a sattelite of the Earth. And, > how about the satellites of Jupiter--lots of them? Which Gods do they > represent? are they malefic or benefic?> > So people, forget this mumbo-jumbo about planet controlling your > live. You are the maker and the breaker of your own destiny--work > hard, live righteous and forget about these planets and Jyothishas.Now, finally, we can find something to agree about...We are the makers and creators of our destiny! and our fates...So,! yes, go for it!... But, that doesn't mean that we can't take advantag eof the tremendous wisdom that's there to help us...especially if we're in an area of our life that's challenging us and we're at lost quitehow to understand...I love the great Swami Yogananda's expression about Jyotish.Though he liked it and appreciated it's power...he was of the Consciousness approachto Vedic knowledge...and said:"Find me the worst day in this year, according to my chart...and I will accomplish anythingon that day!"I agree with that... though this is more shows the huge potential of Consciounsess...to transcend...the influences of one's past....and rise to a level of human dignity and potential...which is greatly hinted at by Vedic Wisdom!take careMark KincaidPS....I don't know if you've heard, but I also write a Jyotish newsletter. It includes a daily, Transits newsletter as well as other aspects of Jyotish as well. If! you, or anyone else in this group is interested, in subscribing, feel free to contact me personally at: m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com And the newsletter is free.> > Mukund> > > > vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> > wrote:>> Dear Venkat:>> >> >> >> I find that all possibilities are possible through each planet.>> >> The key is deciphering and learning how to get more in-tune with > that>> Planet.>> >> Saturn is hard only because we don't know how to get in-tune with > him.>> >> We live in a vata deranged world where rest and rejuvenation and > saturn's>> natural shiva silence is not followed.>> >> But, each step that you take towards Saturn. In hum! ility and > surrender,>> Saturn is appeased and pleas ed.>> >> Study the positive significations of Saturn and then aspire to be > more>> in-tune with those...>> >> Rest,>> rejuvenation,>> study the cyles of Nature,>> like the Moon cycle, for example...>> As I've watched that for years now, and then learned how to follow > the>> flowings of that cycle, I could sense that Saturn was happier.>> >> Saturn means the integrative part of us, between silence and > activity...>> so meditation,>> yoga,>> pranayama, >> Ayurved!>> many things promote stronger Saturn....>> >> The way you'll be able to tell that your Saturn's getting more > balanced...>> is the negative, malefic signs of it...will start diminishing...>> >> Good luck....>> >> I have Saturn sliding through my 9th! house, right now...and > normally it>> would have been more malefic, but since I've been desiring that my > Saturn>> too becomes more benefic,....>> >> even this transit is bringing me some great experiences...of the > 9th house>> variety...>> >> >> Take care>> >> >> >> Mark Kincaid>> >> >> >> >> PS....I don't know if you've heard, but I also write a Jyotish > newsletter.>> It includes a daily, Transits newsletter as well as other aspects > of Jyotish>> as well. If you, or anyone else in this group is interested, in>> subscribing, feel free to contact me personally at: m.kincaid@m... > And>> the newsletter is free.>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> "venka! tarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry>>>> F ri, 06 Feb 2004 14:58:12 -0000>>> vedic astrology>>> 2-[vedic astrology] & Mukund....2/5.... Re: Free will, > karma and>>> moksha>>> >>> Dear Prashant, >>> >>> Ah, I wish I was blessed with Jupiter and Saturn conjuction to>>> obtain the Brahma Yoga! My Saturn is in Jupiter's Rasi (Pisces), > in>>> the 9th house of Dharma, so maybe I will have some slight glimpse > of>>> this knowledge sometime in this lifetime! I hope so, I really hope>>> so. >>> >>> That was a great link, thanks for sending it out.>>> >>> Venkat>>> >>> vedic astrology, prashant narang>>> <prashantnarang> wrote:>>>> dear mark,>>>> that was really wonderfu! l !!>>>> those 3kind of karmas r drida(fixed), adridha(not fixed),>>> dridadrdha( semi fixed).>>>> jupiter & saturn conjunction makes brahma yoga which gives>>> knowledge of life /creation.>>>> >>>> & mukund , here is a link for u, this might b helpful>>>> http://spiritualseven.org/art_karma.htm>>>> >>>> regards>>>> prashant>>>> >>>> Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:>>>> Dear Mukund & All:>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Wow.... you're way jumping to the wrong conclusions here...>>>> >>>> Let me first say that you're mixing up destiny with something > that>>> can't be>>>> changed. Even Vedic! science...which comes from Lord Krishna..>>>> > ;>>> says...that there are basically 3 areas of karmas that can be>>> changed....>>>> >>>> Some that are more easy, others that are more difficult and still>>> others>>>> that are the most difficult.>>>> >>>> However,.... you make one good point that.... destiny doesn't > mean>>> lack of>>>> free will.>>>> >>>> Destiny means karma that we've produced from the past.>>>> >>>> As such we're meant to understand and grow through and with our>>> past karmas>>>> to evolve in the present and the future.>>>> >>>> If there was no choice..there would be no joy, we would be like>>> robots...>>>> >>>> If you're going to define destiny as what happens...then nothing>! >> can be>>>> changed... but... the whole universe is not the destiny of the>>> lord...>>>> he's not a slave to something...>>>> >>>> It came out beautifully.... profoundly wrapped in eternal > freedom.>>>> >>>> Man, who was born in God's image, means...born with the ability > to>>> reflect>>>> his own divine, Cosmic, enlightened...consciousness....>>>> >>>> and at every step along that path.... we have the potential to>>> express more>>>> and more freedom....of life...>>>> >>>> I think you're mixing up the will of God...destiny and man's will>>> and>>>> choices...>>>> >>>> What we are living...is both God's will and our will.>>>> >>>> ! It is 'we' who have chosen these actions and as a result produced&; gt;>> these>>>> consequences....>>>> >>>> God is within,...the ultimate source.... but... it's dangerous to>>> assume>>>> that God is the author...and we are not...>>>> >>>> God may be the ultimate source... but we are participating in > that>>> adventure>>>> and karma is all about actions haveing been done in the past...>>>> >>>> go out into the universe....striking every bit of the>>> creation...and then>>>> coming back...>>>> >>>> We do have and it's very important that we view our choices as > our>>> choices.>>>> >>>> We need to take responsibility..... and in responsibility we > grasp>>> the power>>>> to make any change ...that is possible.! >>>> >>>> In the west we say, after Lord Christ... if your faith was as>>> great as you>>>> bunyan seed.... you could move mountains...>>>> >>>> Well, in the east they have similar expressions....>>>> >>>> That man's Consciounsess is indeed unbounded...>>>> and the more that we reflect that unbounded potential of>>> consciounsess...>>>> we will gain the ability...>>>> to do anything, to accomplish everything...>>>> >>>> We should think how great is a man's nature and potential...and>>> not limit>>>> ourselves or our thinkings...as we're understanding...>>>> the power of destiny or fate...>>>> >>>> And finally....Saturn rules our fate or destiny....>>>> and yet...>&g;! t;>> Jupiter rules faith and freedom....>>>> >>>> >>>> Both planets together...make life...>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> take care>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mark Kincaid>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> "monmuk111" <monmuk111>>>>>> Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:59:01 -0000>>>>> To: vedic astrology>>>>> [vedic astrology] Re: Free will, karma and moksha>>>>> >>>>> Hello Siva:>>>>> >>>>> I've asked these same questions over and over and over again and>>>>> yours is the best reply I've ever received.>>>>> >>>>> No Jyotisha can make a predict! ion, if they can, itdefeats the>>> purpose>>>>> of destiny created by Lord Brahma (the creator) when we're > born.>>>>> >>>>> Even if some Jyotisha makes a prediction, theprediction itself>>> cannot>>>>> CHANGE the destiny nor the actual manifestation destiny of that>>>>> individual as only Lord Vishnu/Krishna (the operator) can decide>>> how>>>>> the destiny will manifest itself through ourmundane lives.>>>>> >>>>> And, even if some Jyotisha figured out a way to change destiny > or>>>>> change the means by with destiny manifest itself, NO Jyotisha > can>>>>> change the will of Lord Mahesh/Siva (the destroyer) as ALL > living>>>>> beings have to die/destruct and the cycle of life and birth>! >> continues.>>>>> >>>>> T o conclude, Jyotish CANNOT change the destiny of a person AND>>>>> Jyotish CANNOT change the way destiny manifest itself.>>>>> >>>>> It is useless to run after Jyotishs and "Godmen/Godwomen" as it>>>>> accomplishes NOTHING except temorary hopes of "raj yog" > and "this>>>>> yog" and "that yog" that thes Jyothish/Godmen/women predict > until>>>>> the individual realizes that destiny is unpredictable and EVEN>>> MORE,>>>>> if destiny could be predicted, it cannot be changed.>>>>> >>>>> So people, forget all this mumbo-jumbo about navamsha chart, > hora>>>>> chart, trishamsa chart, this chart, that chart and all the>>> million>>>>> other charts that these Jyotish invent as these charts CHANGE>>> NOTHING.>&g;! t;>>> >>>>> Lord Krishna told us to perform righteous karma in fulfilling > our>>>>> dharma towards our spouses, kids, parents, society, etc. and>>> that is>>>>> all that we need to do--perform righteous Karma to fulfill our>>> dharma>>>>> AND forget all these Jyotishis and God-people.>>>>> >>>>> Mukund>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> vedic astrology, "schinnas">>> <schinnas>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>> Dear Sharada-ji,>>>>>> >>>>>> Though this question is not for me, let me venture in with my>>>>>> opinions.>>>>>> >>>>>> Questions (1), (2) and (! 3) can (and should) be properly>>> explained>>&; gt;>>> only by self-realized a.k.a Sat Gurus. If you cannot find one > in>>>>>> person, you should read books by one. You can try books in > plain>>>>>> language from the Maths of Bagavan Ramana Maharishi, > Ramakrishna>>>>>> Paramahamsa, Mahavatar Babaji, Divine Life Society (Swami>>>>>> Sivananda), Sringeri or Kanchi math, etc. There are many living>>>>>> SatGurus in India (and probably elsewhere in the world aswell),>>> and>>>>>> if your desire for SatGuru is deep enough, you will>>> automatically>>>>>> find a Guru either in person or through His' teachings.>>>>>> >>>>>> Jyotish (astrology) is an apara-vidya like ayurveda (medicine)>>> or>>>>>> Vyakarana (grammer). Jyotish is mundane know! ledge - not the>>>>>> transendental knowledge of Self and may not even be needed for>>>>>> anyone that surrenders oneself totally to God. However, Jyotish>>>>> does >>>>>> have its own application in life as any other apara-vidya.>>>>>> >>>>>> For one indulging in agamic (ritualistic) worship and > performing>>>>>> vedic karmas, knowledge of Jyotish is needed to perform the>>> various>>>>>> pujas/rituals at the appropriate time.>>>>>> >>>>>> regards,>>>>>> -Siva.>>>>>> >>>>>> vedic astrology, "shar1904">>> <shar1904>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> Dear Narasimha Rao ji/ Pt. Sanjay Rath ji,&g;! t;>>>>>> >>>>>>> I read the article on Chara karaka(Sanjay Rath) on this site>>> and>>>>>> have >>>>>>> a few questions related to it. Could you please help?>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Is the exercise of Free will the main cause of karma and>>> human>>>>>>> suffering ?>>>>>>> 2. Can one attain moksha faster by surrendering one's free > will>>>>>> and >>>>>>> submitting to divine will?>>>>>>> 3. How do you put (2) into actual practice? We have to make>>>>>> decisions >>>>>>> everyday. Is it really possible to give up free will?>>>>>>> 4. If (2) and (3) are indeed possible, what is the relevance > of>>>>>>> jyotish as a science in this context?>>>>! ;>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time.>>>>>>> Sharada.>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Archives: vedic astrology>>>>> >>>>> Group info: vedic->>> astrology/info.html>>>>> >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology->>> >>>>> >>>>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ........>>>>> >>>>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||>>>>> Links>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>! ;>> >>>> >>>> >>>&g; t; >>>> Archives: vedic astrology>>>> >>>> Group info: vedic-> astrology/info.html>>>> >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology->>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||>>>> >>>> >>>> Sponsor>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Groups Links>>>> >>>> >>>> vedic astrology/>>>> >>>> To f! rom this group, send an email to:>>>> vedic astrology>>>> >>>> Your use of is subject to the Terms of>>> Service. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online>>> >>> >>> >>> Archives: vedic astrology>>> >>> Group info: vedic astrology/info.html>>> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >>> >>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......>>> >>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Kris! hnaarpanamastu ||>>> Links&; gt;>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~-->> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511> http://us.click./mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/.8XolB/TM> ---~->> > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > Links> > <*> > vedic astrology/> > <*> To from this group, send an email to:> vedic astrology> > <*> Your > > > Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... 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Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Dear Mr. Saikumar, The questions Mr. Mukund asked are very genuine because that is what is generally asked by almost everyone that first confronts astrology. Any open minded, rational thinking person would have got similar questions atleast once in his/her lifetime, unless they are blindly taught to believe right from their childhood. It is better to confront honest questions rather than run away from it and calling the questioner names! Since many call astrology a science, they cannot shy away from answering those questions. In fact, I am surprised that only Mark tried to answer those questions. These questions are probably more fundamental and more important than questions like combinations for court cases, predicting stock market, etc. To Mukund and others with similar questions: For me and probably many others, seeing is believing and we believe in astrology but I dont think there has ever been a *complete* explanation of how Jyotish works. There are many theories postulated by Jyotish teachers based on puranas, classics, etc. However to *reveal* (as opposed to interpreting from books) such knowledge would require a Sat-Guru that has fully realized the universe. Many SatGurus that do teach humanity after their realiation concentrate only on knowledge of Self and means to attain it. They mostly ignore Jyotish which probably pales before knowledge of Self, knowing which one knows everything. Be blessed! -Siva. vedic astrology, "Saikumar" <astrossk@c...> wrote: > > Dear Mark, > Thank you for patiently answering Mukund. > Dear Narasimha, > Can we stop people from posting anything which does not encourage the study of > Astrology on this list. If people do not believe in Astrology they can go > elsewhere and pursue their materialistic pleasures. > Also, if they have some form of "IDENTITY CRISIS", I think they should find a > different forum to get their problem fixed rather than wasting time/data/disk > space/energy of many enthusiastic (to-be)astrologers on this list. > Please consider. > Regards, > Sai > > > Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> > 2004/02/09 12:07:31 > Vedic Astrology <vedic astrology> > Cc: > moksha & Everything... > > Dear Mukund: > > You bring up some very interesting features of Jyotish. > > Please see below: > > > > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > > Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:29:02 -0000 > > vedic astrology > > 2-[vedic astrology] & Venkat...2/6.... Re: Free will, karma > and > > moksha > > > > Hello Mark and other believers in astrology: > > > > You talk about "possiblities through each planet." How can a planet > > millions and millons of light years away affect the lives of a human > > being here on Earth. > > We see all the times, how celestial objects though they're millions of miles > away > effect the Earth. > > The Moon we're the most aware of. It creates our Ocean's tides, for goodness > sake. > And any woman will tell you her very physiology is connected to the Moon. > Lady's cycle is a lunar cycle. > > I was also watching a nature channel last year and they were discussing this > particular shell fish and it's birthing habits. The show said that every > full Moon in February, this particular sea animal swims back to this > particular cove off the coast of Thailand every February Full Moon. > > Not only does the Moon effect the Earth, but this example alone...shows that > the effects are unique and particular too. > > Then, there's the Sun...which all the news stations announced we should be > aware because a certain Sun spot that was erupting would soon be arriving and > hitting our Earth and previous experience has shown that these phenomena > disturb communications satellites and even cable and communications locally. > > Now, I do understand your question though in terms of other Stars...which are > literally billions and trillions of miles away. > > One day I came across an Astronomy book that talked about the main star > Antares that's a red giant in the Sign of Scorpio which indeed, is in our > Astrological loop. Well, it made the point that it's soooo huge... that > literally millions of our Sun's would fit within it's circumference. In fact, > it's so big that you'd have to visualize the space between the Sun..and the > Planet Mars.. to be able to conceive about how big it is. > > I thought, well no wonder every month when the Moon moves into Scorpio...no > wonder that we can feel it. > > And that gets to my next point. > > There is much that we don't understand about life. But, one thing I know for > sure, Reality is much more strange and beautiful .... vast ...then we have any > idea. > > The other thing I've done for over 16 years...is I've studied...the Jyotish/ > the transits of each and every day. > > This research...which anyone can follow...so vividly...shows...how real the > predictable effects are according to Jyotish...and though we may not quite no > the mechanism... how these results come to us... but we can verify their > validity. > > > > > There is nothing on these planets except dust and/or thick sheets of > > ice. How can these have ANY effect on a human being? > > > > How can chanting mantras have any effect on a planet millions of > > miles away. > > When we do anything of a remedial measure in hope's of improving the quality > or strength of any Astrological planet... > > You have to remember.... this Astrological symbolism of the Planets... is not > supposed... > to move or effect this huge body outside of our Self... > > but to change and improve something about ourselves! > > The Planets and their Astrological symbolisms.... refer to us! > > The Sun...represents our Self.....!... > > The Moon represents our feeling ....self.... > > When we talk about the Moon... being out there...and having a relationship > with in here! > > This means...that the Moon...is symbolic as well as literal, physical > effecting...us.... > > The Moon stands for our 'feeling nature'...and the idea is very simple... > > that the picture of the Moon on the exact day of our birth...is > representative...of the status, > strenghth and even quality...of our emotional nature. > > This 'idea' in Jyotish would be very easy to test. Make a list/group of > 1,000 individuals. > > Give them a battery of common, modern psychological questions related to > emotional stability, > and we'll see an amazing correlation between their answers and their real > emotional strength, and the Moons in their birth charts. > > > Most mantras involve making ridiculous sounds from one's > > mouth while sitting in front of a picture or a stone idol? > > Obviously here, you are just ignorant of the powerful and very real, positive > effects of > Vedic mantras. Anyone who's ever experienced meditation using mantras will > tell you > they have very real and powerful effects. > > Also, if there's any area of Vedic wisdom that's been the most powerfully > studied according to modern science, it's in the area of mantra repetition and > meditation. > > check out, there are over 550 scientific studies that have been done, by very > reputable, independent scientific groups and published in the best journals in > the world, from Scientific American to Science magazine...on and on... > > And these show the power of mantra meditation to make tremendous, powerful > changes in > human physiology, lowering high blood pressure, to reducing stress, and even > Psychological changes, and even IQ...is improved though this is a benfit that > comes from slightly longer duration of mantra practice. > > > These > > planets appear human like in the pictures(Rahu with a Black, angry > > face and big moustche, Jupiter with a handsom face with no moustace-- > > does this mean Jupiter shaves and Rahu doesn't?). Why don't we > > worship before a REAL picture of Jupiter or Saturn where they look > > ROUND with astroid mark all over them. > > > > How about real pictures of Rahu and Ketu??? Well, Rahu and Ketu > > are "pretend planets" so they won't have a real picture. And, if R&K > > are "pretend planets," then why do they have a Mahadasa? -- Do you > > guys realize how irrational this sound? > > > > How can wearing planetary stones have any effect on one's life or how > > can it affect the planet itself????? > > Again, have you ever had any experience with these things? > > Many millions of people for centuries..have documented by there personal > experiences... > the beneficial effects of things like gems. > > Personally, I don't think gems are as powerful as some jyotish remedies but > still they're > very real. > > > > Do you realize how ridiculous > > the planetary stones are???? Jupiter looks yellowish red from Earth, > > but the acutal color of Jupiter is same as the color of dust in any > > other planet SO why is a YELLOW stone prescribed to FIX Jupiter > > problems when the REAL color of Jupite isn't really yellow? > > > > Moon just appears WHITE, but the real color of MOON is brown so why > > is a white pearl prescribed to FIX Moon problems, why isn't a BROWN > > colored stone worn for Moon when Brown is its real color? > > > > How about the deaded sade-sati? How can world's 3/12 population just > > began to have the wrost time of their life ALL AT THE SAME TIME? > > Sade sat doesn't mean everyone at the same time. But, if you watch the Moon, > especially in terms of the Transits... > you'd know that Saturn, for example has an extraordinary effect on the human > heart > and feeling nature...(ie the Moon). > > I can send you dozens of my students who individually can verify these > experiences... > > > > > And > > how can wearing of an iron ring or making ridiculous sounding noises > > from one's mouth in form of mantras APEASE an INANIMATE planet of > > dust and ice a million light years away? > > Don't forget the remedial measures...aren't meant to try and effect a > celestial body.. > out there... > > but ...the nature of ourselves...inside,...here... > > But, this symbolism of Astrology.... that 'we' are made up out of Star > stuff... > > That we, all have a nature...that Astrology quite nicely captures... > speaks to the very heart of Astorlogy. > > I'm writing a book right now on Astrology...and the main aspect of this book > is that > there is an amazing correlation between the symbolisms....of Astrology... > and the very real and undeniable nature of individuals... > > I'd challenge you to any test...regarding this... > > Put together a list of 10, 100 or 1,000 people and any good Jyotish Astrologer > will be able to guess what their human nature is like! > > > > > > > Planets control nothing, planets harms nobody, planets help nobody. > > And, it they do then how are we going to account for millions and > > millions of other planets (in addition to the 7 known)in the galaxy. > > > > And, Moon isn't even a planet, it is a sattelite of the Earth. And, > > how about the satellites of Jupiter--lots of them? Which Gods do they > > represent? are they malefic or benefic? > > > > So people, forget this mumbo-jumbo about planet controlling your > > live. You are the maker and the breaker of your own destiny-- work > > hard, live righteous and forget about these planets and Jyothishas. > > Now, finally, we can find something to agree about... > > We are the makers and creators of our destiny! and our fates... > > So, yes, go for it!... But, that doesn't mean that we can't take advantage > of the tremendous wisdom that's there to help us... > especially if we're in an area of our life that's challenging us and we're at > lost quite > how to understand... > > I love the great Swami Yogananda's expression about Jyotish. > > Though he liked it and appreciated it's power...he was of the Consciousness > approach > to Vedic knowledge...and said: > > "Find me the worst day in this year, according to my chart...and I will > accomplish anything > on that day!" > > I agree with that... though this is more shows the huge potential of > Consciounsess... > to transcend...the influences of one's past.... > > and rise to a level of human dignity and potential...which is greatly hinted > at by Vedic Wisdom! > > take care > > > Mark Kincaid > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Siva Ji, It's not the questions themselves, as much as the tone. Stating your belief or asking questions is quite different from attacking other's beliefs. If you read the archives, you will see multiple instances of this by the same person. Just compare the tone of your posting, which was forgiving and helpful, to the tone of the original email which was ridiculing the actions and beliefs of many. Or the patient and resonable tone of Mark's response.... Venkat vedic astrology, "schinnas" <schinnas> wrote: > Dear Mr. Saikumar, > The questions Mr. Mukund asked are very genuine because that is > what is generally asked by almost everyone that first confronts > astrology. Any open minded, rational thinking person would have got > similar questions atleast once in his/her lifetime, unless they are > blindly taught to believe right from their childhood. It is better > to confront honest questions rather than run away from it and > calling the questioner names! > > Since many call astrology a science, they cannot shy away from > answering those questions. In fact, I am surprised that only Mark > tried to answer those questions. These questions are probably more > fundamental and more important than questions like combinations for > court cases, predicting stock market, etc. > > To Mukund and others with similar questions: > > For me and probably many others, seeing is believing and we believe > in astrology but I dont think there has ever been a *complete* > explanation of how Jyotish works. There are many theories postulated > by Jyotish teachers based on puranas, classics, etc. However to > *reveal* (as opposed to interpreting from books) such knowledge > would require a Sat-Guru that has fully realized the universe. Many > SatGurus that do teach humanity after their realiation concentrate > only on knowledge of Self and means to attain it. They mostly ignore > Jyotish which probably pales before knowledge of Self, knowing which > one knows everything. > > Be blessed! > -Siva. > > vedic astrology, "Saikumar" <astrossk@c...> > wrote: > > > > Dear Mark, > > Thank you for patiently answering Mukund. > > Dear Narasimha, > > Can we stop people from posting anything which does not encourage > the study of > > Astrology on this list. If people do not believe in Astrology they > can go > > elsewhere and pursue their materialistic pleasures. > > Also, if they have some form of "IDENTITY CRISIS", I think they > should find a > > different forum to get their problem fixed rather than wasting > time/data/disk > > space/energy of many enthusiastic (to-be)astrologers on this list. > > Please consider. > > Regards, > > Sai > > > > > > Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> > > 2004/02/09 12:07:31 > > Vedic Astrology <vedic astrology> > > Cc: > > moksha & Everything... > > > > Dear Mukund: > > > > You bring up some very interesting features of Jyotish. > > > > Please see below: > > > > > > > > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111> > > > Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:29:02 -0000 > > > vedic astrology > > > 2-[vedic astrology] & Venkat...2/6.... Re: Free > will, karma > > and > > > moksha > > > > > > Hello Mark and other believers in astrology: > > > > > > You talk about "possiblities through each planet." How can a > planet > > > millions and millons of light years away affect the lives of a > human > > > being here on Earth. > > > > We see all the times, how celestial objects though they're > millions of miles > > away > > effect the Earth. > > > > The Moon we're the most aware of. It creates our Ocean's tides, > for goodness > > sake. > > And any woman will tell you her very physiology is connected to > the Moon. > > Lady's cycle is a lunar cycle. > > > > I was also watching a nature channel last year and they were > discussing this > > particular shell fish and it's birthing habits. The show said > that every > > full Moon in February, this particular sea animal swims back to > this > > particular cove off the coast of Thailand every February Full Moon. > > > > Not only does the Moon effect the Earth, but this example > alone...shows that > > the effects are unique and particular too. > > > > Then, there's the Sun...which all the news stations announced we > should be > > aware because a certain Sun spot that was erupting would soon be > arriving and > > hitting our Earth and previous experience has shown that these > phenomena > > disturb communications satellites and even cable and > communications locally. > > > > Now, I do understand your question though in terms of other > Stars...which are > > literally billions and trillions of miles away. > > > > One day I came across an Astronomy book that talked about the main > star > > Antares that's a red giant in the Sign of Scorpio which indeed, is > in our > > Astrological loop. Well, it made the point that it's soooo > huge... that > > literally millions of our Sun's would fit within it's > circumference. In fact, > > it's so big that you'd have to visualize the space between the > Sun..and the > > Planet Mars.. to be able to conceive about how big it is. > > > > I thought, well no wonder every month when the Moon moves into > Scorpio...no > > wonder that we can feel it. > > > > And that gets to my next point. > > > > There is much that we don't understand about life. But, one thing > I know for > > sure, Reality is much more strange and beautiful .... vast ...then > we have any > > idea. > > > > The other thing I've done for over 16 years...is I've > studied...the Jyotish/ > > the transits of each and every day. > > > > This research...which anyone can follow...so vividly...shows...how > real the > > predictable effects are according to Jyotish...and though we may > not quite no > > the mechanism... how these results come to us... but we can verify > their > > validity. > > > > > > > > There is nothing on these planets except dust and/or thick > sheets of > > > ice. How can these have ANY effect on a human being? > > > > > > How can chanting mantras have any effect on a planet millions of > > > miles away. > > > > When we do anything of a remedial measure in hope's of improving > the quality > > or strength of any Astrological planet... > > > > You have to remember.... this Astrological symbolism of the > Planets... is not > > supposed... > > to move or effect this huge body outside of our Self... > > > > but to change and improve something about ourselves! > > > > The Planets and their Astrological symbolisms.... refer to us! > > > > The Sun...represents our Self.....!... > > > > The Moon represents our feeling ....self.... > > > > When we talk about the Moon... being out there...and having a > relationship > > with in here! > > > > This means...that the Moon...is symbolic as well as literal, > physical > > effecting...us.... > > > > The Moon stands for our 'feeling nature'...and the idea is very > simple... > > > > that the picture of the Moon on the exact day of our birth...is > > representative...of the status, > > strenghth and even quality...of our emotional nature. > > > > This 'idea' in Jyotish would be very easy to test. Make a > list/group of > > 1,000 individuals. > > > > Give them a battery of common, modern psychological questions > related to > > emotional stability, > > and we'll see an amazing correlation between their answers and > their real > > emotional strength, and the Moons in their birth charts. > > > > > > Most mantras involve making ridiculous sounds from one's > > > mouth while sitting in front of a picture or a stone idol? > > > > Obviously here, you are just ignorant of the powerful and very > real, positive > > effects of > > Vedic mantras. Anyone who's ever experienced meditation using > mantras will > > tell you > > they have very real and powerful effects. > > > > Also, if there's any area of Vedic wisdom that's been the most > powerfully > > studied according to modern science, it's in the area of mantra > repetition and > > meditation. > > > > check out, there are over 550 scientific studies that have been > done, by very > > reputable, independent scientific groups and published in the best > journals in > > the world, from Scientific American to Science magazine...on and > on... > > > > And these show the power of mantra meditation to make tremendous, > powerful > > changes in > > human physiology, lowering high blood pressure, to reducing > stress, and even > > Psychological changes, and even IQ...is improved though this is a > benfit that > > comes from slightly longer duration of mantra practice. > > > > > > These > > > planets appear human like in the pictures(Rahu with a Black, > angry > > > face and big moustche, Jupiter with a handsom face with no > moustace-- > > > does this mean Jupiter shaves and Rahu doesn't?). Why don't we > > > worship before a REAL picture of Jupiter or Saturn where they > look > > > ROUND with astroid mark all over them. > > > > > > How about real pictures of Rahu and Ketu??? Well, Rahu and Ketu > > > are "pretend planets" so they won't have a real picture. And, if > R&K > > > are "pretend planets," then why do they have a Mahadasa? -- Do > you > > > guys realize how irrational this sound? > > > > > > How can wearing planetary stones have any effect on one's life > or how > > > can it affect the planet itself????? > > > > Again, have you ever had any experience with these things? > > > > Many millions of people for centuries..have documented by there > personal > > experiences... > > the beneficial effects of things like gems. > > > > Personally, I don't think gems are as powerful as some jyotish > remedies but > > still they're > > very real. > > > > > > > > Do you realize how ridiculous > > > the planetary stones are???? Jupiter looks yellowish red from > Earth, > > > but the acutal color of Jupiter is same as the color of dust in > any > > > other planet SO why is a YELLOW stone prescribed to FIX Jupiter > > > problems when the REAL color of Jupite isn't really yellow? > > > > > > Moon just appears WHITE, but the real color of MOON is brown so > why > > > is a white pearl prescribed to FIX Moon problems, why isn't a > BROWN > > > colored stone worn for Moon when Brown is its real color? > > > > > > How about the deaded sade-sati? How can world's 3/12 population > just > > > began to have the wrost time of their life ALL AT THE SAME TIME? > > > > Sade sat doesn't mean everyone at the same time. But, if you > watch the Moon, > > especially in terms of the Transits... > > you'd know that Saturn, for example has an extraordinary effect on > the human > > heart > > and feeling nature...(ie the Moon). > > > > I can send you dozens of my students who individually can verify > these > > experiences... > > > > > > > > > > And > > > how can wearing of an iron ring or making ridiculous sounding > noises > > > from one's mouth in form of mantras APEASE an INANIMATE planet > of > > > dust and ice a million light years away? > > > > Don't forget the remedial measures...aren't meant to try and > effect a > > celestial body.. > > out there... > > > > but ...the nature of ourselves...inside,...here... > > > > But, this symbolism of Astrology.... that 'we' are made up out of > Star > > stuff... > > > > That we, all have a nature...that Astrology quite nicely > captures... > > speaks to the very heart of Astorlogy. > > > > I'm writing a book right now on Astrology...and the main aspect of > this book > > is that > > there is an amazing correlation between the symbolisms....of > Astrology... > > and the very real and undeniable nature of individuals... > > > > I'd challenge you to any test...regarding this... > > > > Put together a list of 10, 100 or 1,000 people and any good > Jyotish Astrologer > > will be able to guess what their human nature is like! > > > > > > > > > > > > Planets control nothing, planets harms nobody, planets help > nobody. > > > And, it they do then how are we going to account for millions > and > > > millions of other planets (in addition to the 7 known)in the > galaxy. > > > > > > And, Moon isn't even a planet, it is a sattelite of the Earth. > And, > > > how about the satellites of Jupiter--lots of them? Which Gods do > they > > > represent? are they malefic or benefic? > > > > > > So people, forget this mumbo-jumbo about planet controlling your > > > live. You are the maker and the breaker of your own destiny-- > work > > > hard, live righteous and forget about these planets and > Jyothishas. > > > > Now, finally, we can find something to agree about... > > > > We are the makers and creators of our destiny! and our fates... > > > > So, yes, go for it!... But, that doesn't mean that we can't take > advantage > > of the tremendous wisdom that's there to help us... > > especially if we're in an area of our life that's challenging us > and we're at > > lost quite > > how to understand... > > > > I love the great Swami Yogananda's expression about Jyotish. > > > > Though he liked it and appreciated it's power...he was of the > Consciousness > > approach > > to Vedic knowledge...and said: > > > > "Find me the worst day in this year, according to my chart...and I > will > > accomplish anything > > on that day!" > > > > I agree with that... though this is more shows the huge potential > of > > Consciounsess... > > to transcend...the influences of one's past.... > > > > and rise to a level of human dignity and potential...which is > greatly hinted > > at by Vedic Wisdom! > > > > take care > > > > > > Mark Kincaid > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Siva Ji, May I comment on some of your observations? > > For me and probably many others, seeing is believing and we > believe > > in astrology but I dont think there has ever been a *complete* > > explanation of how Jyotish works. Siva, I don't think there is a *complete* explanation of how ANYTHING works in any science! Take the simple example of sight for instance. Our eyes produce an upside down image on the cornea. *How* does our brain turn it the right side up? Why do we percieve different wavelengths as colors? Or mathematical series of frequencies together as pleasing music and unrelated frequencies as noise? Or why a cell's DNA know when to make the correct RNA of two different kinds of RNA possible? There are really very few *complete* explanations. We are learning as we go, and frankly that is the thrill for me. If we knew it ALL, there will be nothing to strive for! The point is that we take those results and try to understand why that's so. Similarly, Jyotish may consistently give you the correct results, whether or not we understand WHY it works. There are many theories > postulated > > by Jyotish teachers based on puranas, classics, etc. However to > > *reveal* (as opposed to interpreting from books) such knowledge > > would require a Sat-Guru that has fully realized the universe. > Many > > SatGurus that do teach humanity after their realiation concentrate > > only on knowledge of Self and means to attain it. They mostly > ignore > > Jyotish which probably pales before knowledge of Self, knowing > which > > one knows everything. > > > > Be blessed! > > -Siva. Jyotish was "revealed" (at some point in the past you need someone to write/reveal the books that others use to interpret), by the sages like Parashara, Jaimini etc, i.e. they understood it, and made it available to the rest of us that are not as advanced as they are, and need some help. I agree with you about all wordly knowledge, jyotish, science, philosophy, logic etc. paling before the knowledge of the Self! Very true. Venkat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Dear Sundeep and list Thank you for this good discussion on observation, and the understanding of astrology as a science. What I would talk about is not very unfamiliar to the one that you already know but would however help us to dig deeper into the process of predictions. Vishnu is the all pervading consciousness, and he is talking to us all the times, so what I am proposing is not new but definitely a different understanding of Jyotish. Jyotish as we all seem to understand, is taking up charts, or horoscopes and trying to either establish a link between planets and causes, or the causes to planets, or whatever way one has defined it so far. Jyotish is the Third eye, or the eye that “Percieves” the linkages even to the microcosmic level. What we do with the two eyes is seeing, but the third eye is the one which “Percieves” the “Signals” for a holistic understanding that leads to awareness of the higher energies. I would not bore you guys to death, and would straight away come to the focus of this article. I would like to narrate an incident that recently took place while I was going to attend the Puri Conference. While I was going in the train, I saw a small station called Dusi, and I immediately calculated the vedic number for the station using Katapayadi varga, it came to 6. (Doosi, d- here is “the”, so doosi, comes to 87, reverse 78, divided by 12, remainder =6=virgo) I saw three passengers talking about murder of a student that took place in Srikakulam.( A town in coastal Andhra pradesh). They were talking about police etc, and the conversation was around 11 50 Am(7th Of January 2004). Then they got down at Srikakulam, and a policeman boarded the train and came and sat just next to me. He enquired about me and asked me what I do, I replied that I am an astrologer and do “timepass astrology”, and he then asked me to read the chart of his daughter. I checked up the time, it was around 12 35 Pm, and I guessed through manual calculation that aries would be rising with Rahu in it. Still I proceeded, and I found that she was Sagittarius Rising, with Aries moon sign, Bharani nakshatra. The hora lord sun was sitting right next to his buddy mercury in Sagittarius in the prasna chart. I asked the policeman , whether he got a promotion or something good related to job when the daughter was born, and he replied in affirmative. She was born in Sukra dasa, and currently she was running Sun dasa. I predicted marriage for her, and then he got down at the next station. All the events took place within the span of one hour. Now friends a few points here a) There are totally six guys here(3 passengers, a student, a policeman, and his daughter) b) Virgo a female sign is represented by the number 6. c) Lord of virgo is mercury who is a student, and also a child d) Hora lord at the time of first conversation was mars, and rahu was in second house in aries(Pisces rising), and mars is also the 2nd lord and the 9th lord. e) Hora lord at the time of conversation with the Policeman was sun, and sun is the fifth lord with child mercury(lord of virgo) in Sagittarius f) The whole story started with a station called dusi. Now guys, I can go on and on, and show you the link between signposts, signals, Vedic astrology, Nimitta etc etc. But the crucial point to understand is that there is a continuous stream of information that keeps bomarding us all the times, the constant stream of Vishnu, the all pervading Vishnu. If we restrict astrology to the definition given by medieval astrologers as the maverick science trying to understand marriages, nuptial bonds, and progeny then we are lost. Look at the broader picture, Jyotish i reiterate is the Third eye that helps us perceive the Microcosm in macrocosm, and understand the linkages, it is not establishing linkages, but getting aware of the linkages. Whether one shouts from the roof top claiming himself as scientist or a mathematicians, as most of the guys who criticize astrology do, we are not here to cool them down. The very fact that they are criticizing astrology shows that they are deeply interested and intrigued and bewildered by this fascinating human science, the science of the Vedas, the science of the “EXISTENCE”, Love Partha Dear Sundeep,Thats a very good point about observing first and then predicting.However, I am not sure about your second observation.I believe there are instances in Jyotish classics where the authors(rishis) indicate that planets cause so and so. For example, whiletalking about conjunction of planets and when sun hides the planets,I remember reading something like "rays" of planets dont reach theperson, etc. Please note that I am just basing it on my memory whichmay be incorrect.Such statements tend to give the opinion that the divine forceassociated with these planets "cause" and not just indicate.Otherwise remedies to Graha Lords may not make much sense.Now, here is a question for all: Are there instances where it isclearly and unambiguously said anywhere in classics that1. Planets cause an effect on us (based on our past karma) OR2. Planets just denote/indicate.Nimittas is a very different story altogether. I am referring toplanetary astrology here.-Siva.vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"<vedicastrostudent> wrote:> Siva,> I am forced to comment on one statement of yours, because I see> people misinterpreting this all the time. This is not directed at> you, but a general attitude I have seen which I think needs to be> corrected:>> > For me and probably many others, seeing is believing and we> believe> > in astrology but I dont think there has ever been a *complete*> > explanation of how Jyotish works.>>> The true scientist values empiricism above all else. This is the> unalterable sequence for any true scientist: OBSERVATION comesfirst,> then HYPOTHESIS, then PREDICTION based on hypothesis, thenpromotion> of HYPOTHESIS to EXPLANATION based on the VALIDATION of it's> PREDICTIONS. What I see many many people doing is debunkingJyotish> falsely under the covers of "science". When they say "how can a> planet millions of miles away affect our destiny", they are notbeing> scientific because they are FIRST looking for an EXPLANATION,BEFORE> accepting the OBSERVATIONS. A true scientist always observesfirst,> even if he has no theories or explanations, or worse, even if the> observations flatly contradict his pre-existing beliefs andtheories.> Einstein for example OBSERVED that the speed of light was a dead> constant in all directions BEFORE he hypothesized the theory that> explained it. The constancy of the speed of light was in stark> contradiction to then existing theories, but that didnt stopEinstein> from observing that constancy as a FACT.>> The true scientific approach to Jyotish is to observe first. *IS*> there a correlation between the movement of planets and our lives?> Once you get PAST that i.e have answered the question in YES orNO,> you can proceed to the hypothesis. People frequently go the other> way - they cant find a comfortable hypothesis, so they deny the> facts. That is not scientific.>> Secondly, the next biggest mistake I see people making, and yes I> have not seen ONE person point out this mistake is that when theysee> a correlation between A and B, they automatically assume that A> CAUSES B. That is an assumption - it is only ONE possibility of> potentially more. Case in point: Jyotish. When they see themovement> of planets correlating directly with the events in the lives of> people, people automatically assume that the movement of planets> CAUSES those events. Huh? Why? Say for example the mail in yourhouse> comes at 2pm. You keep watching the clock on the wall, and when it> hits 2pm you run to your mailbox and sure enough, there is themail.> Did the movement of the clock to the position 2pm CAUSE the mailto> come? No! Both the mailman and you are using a synchronized clock.> Neither caused the other. The same MAY be the case for JYOTISH. It> MAY - I dont know, I am simply not eliminating it as apossibility.> The planets may be like a complex clock in the sky (that can beread> only by competent astrologers of course), keeping time of eventsthat> occur in your life. They may only be the clock, not necessarilythe> process that causes the event. I find it funny when people say -we> know all the material forces e.g. gravity that emanate from all> planets, and none has enough magnitude to affect anything onearth.> My answer - So what? The planets may not be CAUSING the things on> earth, simply TIMING them.>>> Sundeep Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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