More on Scorpio and Guhya (Organs or body lords?)

June 17, 2004

Dear Learned Friends,

The undersigned is rather simple in his approach and understanding.

So some point sneed to get clearified, it is hoped that they will be

answered.

1) When an organ is mentioned,it generally means a collection of

various systems to make an organ.

2) If this is the case, for example, Yoni is an organ. It consists of

various systems like Muscular, blood, sexual ,nervous and so on.

Do we understand as per our shastras that Vrischika Rasi stands for

only reproductive system but Outer sexual organs like Labia Majora

orwhatever, are ruled by different planet?

4th house denotes vehicle. Shall we say that doors are ruled by

Rahu , engine is ruled Mars, Fuel system is represented by Surya,

body is represented by Sani.

Exhaust is again Vrischik rasi, but exhaust pipe is Tula Rasi etc

and , so on and so forth ???

If this is the case, what about the Lord of 4th house?

Hope that we are able to reach a consensus soon.

Tatvam-Asi

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

wrote:

> Dear Sarbani,

>

> You are right, We should wait for Sanjay's comments. In the

meanwhile,

> since you have no problems discussing human anatomy, let me clarify

the

> difference between various organs in order to remove confusion

about

> their function. Here is what Cambridge dictionary says about

Clitoris.

> "clitoris [show phonetics] <define.asp?dict=CALD&key=14250&ph=on>

> noun [C]

> a sexual organ above the vagina which can give a woman sexual

pleasure

> when it is touched" and what it says about Urethra."urethra [show

> phonetics] <define.asp?dict=CALD&key=87461&ph=on>

> noun [C] plural urethras or SPECIALIZED urethrae

> the tube in most mammals which carries urine from the bladder out

of the

> body. In males it also carries sperm.

> "

> I am attaching two diagrams showing Male and female reproductive

> systems. They will clarify that clitoris is not an excretory organ

and

> Urethra and clitoris are different organs, both located in Vagina.

Study

> them and then we can revert back to the discussion. You will also

find

> similarity in the urethra and seminal fluid carrying in male and

female

> reproductory systems, and the route though apparently different

follows

> similar delivery systems. This would also clarify any confusion

about

> Vagina being exclusively reserved for reproductive purposes as

there are

> three sections of it each with different functions.

> I trust this would remove any confusion about clitoris being the

organ

> of delivery of excreta.

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

>

> >Dear Chandrashekharji,

> >

> >I agree with you as its highly likely that I have not understood

this

> >properly. I was not attentive I must confess; I happen to listen

in to a lot

> >of things - though not at all carefully - when Sanjayji was

teaching Visti,

> >Freedom and Eric. This was not part of the regular class, but the

snatch of

> >a conversation that I overhead. So it's best if Sanjayji

clarifies.

> >

> >But let me comment upon a couple of things. The vagina is an organ

> >equivalent to the phallus but EXCLUSIVELY for reproductive

purposes. It is

> >used for mating in order that the seminal fluid may be deposited

there,

> >which may be then carried to the uterus via the cervix for

conception. It is

> >used for menstruation. It is NOT used for urinary excretion, which

is

> >through the clitoris, the urethra being the internal channel and

the

> >clitoris the outer organ through which the urine is ejected. The

phallus on

> >the other hand is for BOTH reproductive and urinary. This is the

difference

> >between a male and a female. This is probably because the female

has very

> >exclusive reproductive functions: the vagina is the medium through

which the

> >child is delivered to the world and through which menstruation

takes place.

> >So its unimaginable that it should be also used for urinary

purposes. The

> >male on the other hand have no reproductive functions except for

depositing

> >the seminal fluid. So the phallus doubles as urinary and the

channel through

> >which the seminal fluid is ejected.

> >

> >I still think the division is between visible and hidden and not

between

> >reproductive and excretory...but I think it may be wise to wait

for Sanjayji

> >to download his mails and clarify this to us. I hope you do not

mind my

> >discussing physical anatomy but we are all educated adults and I

have no

> >problems in discussing these things openly academically.

> >

> >Best regards,

> >

> >Sarbani

> >

> >Chandrashekhar [boxdel]

> >Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:41 AM

> >Sarbani Sarkar

> >Cc: 'Vedic Astrology Group'

> >Re: [vedic astrology] More on Scorpio and Guhya

> >

> >Dear Sarbani,

> >There appears to be some confusion here. It would be better if

Sanjay

> >comments on this. I am certain he was trying to explain something

else.

> >The reason I say this is, there is contradiction in the

categorisation

> >of organs and also understanding of Human anatomy in the

explanation. I

> >had not wanted to discuss human anatomy on the list and had

indicated

> >this in my message to Visti. However you have done so now, I think

it is

> >better we set the record straight.

> >If Libra indicates excretory organ and therefore Phallus is ruled

by it,

> >why anus the other excretory organ be ruled by Scorpio and not

Libra.

> >The Mollier dictionary translates Guhya as pudenda( mfn. (Pa1n2. 3-

1 ,

> >109 Ka1s3. g. %{daNDA7di}) to be covered or concealed or hidden or

kept

> >secret , concealable , private , secret , mysterious , mystical

RV. AV.

> >&c.* the pudenda *Sus3r. VarBr2S. Katha1s. ii , 56 (cf. 1. %

{gR4hya})

> >the anus W.) amongst other meanings and it means per English

dictionary:

> >*Definitions*

> >*pudenda*

> >/plural noun/

> >

> > /pudendum/

> > 1. The external sexual organs, especially those of a woman.

> >

> >*/Etymology/*: 17c: Latin, literally `things to be ashamed

of',

> >from /pudere/ to be ashamed.

> >

> >There also appears to be some confusion about Anatomy and

reproduction

> >here. Clitoris is not urinary excretory organ but Urethra

definitely is.

> >The former is female equivalent of a Male Phallus. The dictionary

> >meaning of the former is:

> >*Definitions*

> >*clitoris*

> >/noun/

> >

> > /clitorises/

> > 1. /_anatomy._/

> > In female mammals: a small highly sensitive organ

located in

> > front of the opening of the vagina, which like the

penis in

> > males, becomes erect when sexually stimulated.

> >

> >*/Derivative/*: clitoral

> >/adj/

> >*/Etymology/*: 17c: from Greek /kleitoris/.

> >

> >Again if one calls testicles as reproductive organ but excludes

Phallus

> >from that category then Vagina should also be excluded as

reproductive

> >organ and Ovary substituted for it. I think the confusion is about

> >external reproductive organs and internal reproductive organs,

which

> >together constitute the entire reproductive system. I think what

Sanjay

> >was trying to convey was that the internal reproductive and

excretory

> >organs are governed by Libra and the External ones by Scorpio.

That is

> >an absolutely correct statement. Basti is the region of internal

> >reproductive and excretory organs and External Reproductive and

> >Excretory organs ( also known as Sexual organs) are the Guhyas.

> >..

> >Regards,

> >Chandrashekhar.

> >Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

> >

> >>Dear Narasimha,

> >>

> >>I do not wish to butt into a discussion among gurus but if I

recollect

> >>correctly, what Sanjayji was trying to tell us at that point is

that

> >>Libra represents the visible organs of the pelvic region. This

> >>includes the clitoris (excretory (urinary) organ) and the phallus

> >>(excretory (urinary) and reproductive organ). Scorpio represents

the

> >>organs which are not visible, rather they are hidden…or that they

> >>ought to be hidden. These include the anus (excretory organ),

vagina

> >>(reproductive organ) and the testicles (reproductive organs). The

> >>phallus is primarily excretory, sometimes used for discharging

seminal

> >>fluid; the testicles are on the other hand purely reproductive

organs.

> >>So the classification is more on the lines of

> >>visibility/hiding/enshrouding. Scorpio hides both reproductive

and

> >>excretory organs. This is as far as I understood.

> >>

> >>Best regards,

> >>

> >>Sarbani

> >>

------

> >>

> >>** Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr@c...]

> >>*Sent:* Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:35 AM

> >>*To:* Vedic Astrology Group

> >>*Subject:* [vedic astrology] More on Scorpio and Guhya

> >>

> >>Namaste Visti,

> >>

> >>>Dear Chandrashekhar and Narasimha, Namaskar

> >>>The highlighted portion about people's minds was not meant for

you,

> >>>

> >>but all

> >>

> >>>the other translators of the word Guhya in the classical books.

I'm

> >>>

> >>sorry if

> >>

> >>>you took this phrase wrongly upon you.

> >>>

> >>Well, thanks for the clarification. But I am even more offended

now.

> >>

> >>It is well within your right to believe in what you *think* your

guru

> >>taught you. But, you have no business speculating about the

mindsets

> >>of people who translate otherwise. Scholars translated Guhya the

way

> >>they did because it is the only correct way and because other

classics

> >>used far less ambiguous words to make things clearer. They did so

for

> >>valid and intelligent reasons. It is certainly not because

their "mind

> >>is on sex" as your slur says. Your phrase is offensive even if it

was

> >>not meant for Chandrashekhar ji and me.

> >>

> >>For example, the great Dr. B. Suryanarain Row (grandfather of Dr.

> >>Raman) associated the term "sexual organs" with Scorpio in his

> >>translations of Brihajjatakam and Sarvartha Chintamani. In fact,

this

> >>is the standard view of most scholars. If you disagree with them,

do

> >>so respectfully. There is no need for arrogant slurs.

> >>

> >>>Now keep in mind that I did not come up with this idea - This is

the

> >>>explanation given to me by Guruji, here goes; Guhya means hidden

and

> >>>

> >>refers

> >>

> >>>to those parts of the body which one cannot see - not those one

> >>>

> >>should hide.

> >>

> >>>If you stand up straight and look at the mirror the genitals

will be

> >>>perfectly visible, however the anus will not and is hidden by

the

> >>>

> >>buttocks.

> >>

> >>>This is what is meant by hidden.

> >>>

> >>In Sanskrit, the suffixes -ya and -ta are different. Looks

like you

> >>do not understand the difference between them. For example, pooj

means

> >>"to pray to". Poojita means "prayed to". OTOH, "poojya" means

> >>"prayable" or "one who is worthy of being prayed to". Similarly,

laksh

> >>means "to view". Lakshita means "viewed". Lakshya means "one that

is

> >>worthy of being viewed". That is why lakshya means target. Sish

means

> >>"to refine, discipline and culture". Sishta means a cultured

person

> >>(i.e. one who has been refined and cultured). OTOH, sishya means

one

> >>who needs to be refined and cultured. That is why sishya means a

> >>student. Similarly, gupta means hidden (e.g. gupta dhana=hidden

> >>treasure). But guhya means one that needs to be hidden. In

mantras,

> >>secretive mantras that need to be hidden are said to be "guhyam".

> >>Anyone who knows Sanskrit well will know that gupta means hidden

and

> >>guhya means "one that needs to be hidden".

> >>

> >>So guhyas are not parts that you cannot see in the mirror or

something

> >>like that. They are parts that need to be hidden. Basically they

are

> >>the secretive parts of the body (that is why Jataka Parijatam

uses the

> >>term "rahasya desa" (secret area) instead of Guhya).

> >>

> >>Even if you disagree, please see my earlier quotes from other

classics

> >>which are far less ambiguous. Other scholars such as

Varahamihira,

> >>Kalyana Verma and Mantreswara used clearer words in the place of

> >>Guhya. If one looks at all the classics, all doubts should be

cleared.

> >>

> >>>Libra is the natural 7th house and deals

> >>>

> >>>with mating, and this being for the sake of producing children.

> >>>

> >>>Now I never said that Päräçara said this, I said my Guruji said

this.

> >>>

> >>Take

> >>

> >>>it or leave it.

> >>>

> >>Visti, had you said just that, it would've been a perfectly

acceptable

> >>stand. But there is a huge difference between following one's

guru and

> >>*insulting* other great scholars. You have made great

contributions to

> >>this list, including the recent postings on celibacy. But slurs

on

> >>scholars such as this "mind on sex" thing are unbecoming of you.

> >>Please control yourself in future. You have been such a great

> >>contributor and I do not want to punish you. I do not even want

to

> >>have to warn you again. Please co-operate..

> >>

> >>Also, kindly make sure that you are not misrepresenting your guru

> >>here. I say it especially because all the classics are in

agreement on

> >>Scorpio and you are contradicting all of them in the name of your

guru

> >>(who is my guru too)!

> >>

> >>Libra does represent the pelival region that includes some body

parts

> >>that are important for sexual activity, but the classics are

clear in

> >>saying that genitals themselves are represented by Scorpio and

not Libra..

> >>

> >>>As for celibacy, I have AGAIN quoted my Guruji. The rest is up

to you.

> >>>

> >>I have no complaints with you in that matter! :-)

> >>

> >>Role of Mars in celibabcy (or lack of it) is quite complicated

and

> >>dualistic.

> >>

> >>For example, Parasara and Jaimini both taught that Venus and Mars

in

> >>2nd from swamsa make one very licentious in sexual matters. This

is

> >>the opposite of celibabcy! At the same time, Mars rules over

> >>Brahmacharyashrama.. He has a dual role to play and various

scholars,

> >>including you, have pointed out various factors very nicely. It

was a

> >>nice discussion. Keep it up!

> >>

> >>May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> >>

> >>Narasimha

> >>

> >>>Monier Williams gives the following for Basti (vasti);

> >>>lower belly , abdomen VarBr2S. Ka1s3i1Kh. the pelvis MW.

> >>>

> >>>Visti Larsen

> >>>visti@s <visti@s>...

> >>>

> >>>Chandrashekhar [boxdel]

> >>>14 June 2004 23:05

> >>>Visti @ Denmark

> >>>Cc: vedic astrology

> >>>

> >><vedic astrology>

> >>

> >>>Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Mars.... is he really karaka

for

> >>>

> >>celebecy

> >>

> >>>? To Sjt.Visti Larsen

> >>>

> >>>Dear Visti,

> >>>You wrote" As for sexual organs, Scorpio represents the private

parts...

> >>>this is not

> >>>the sexual organs but the anus, which is hidden and hence

private -* when

> >>>ones mind is on sex then even private parts become sexual organs!

*

> >>>Now I quote Guruji and again state; the 8th house indicates the

Anus

> >>>

> >>(it is

> >>

> >>>private because it is hidden) whilst the 7th house shows the

reproductive

> >>>organs."

> >>>Your statement which I have made in bold types is utterly

uncalled for

> >>>and crosses the boundaries of decency.Desist from such comments

in

> >>>future.They are not in good taste.

> >>>As to what is 8th house, I wish some body takes pains to read

BPHS

> >>>Chapter 4 and Shloka3 and 4 before attributing something to

Parashara.I

> >>>would like to know what is your English translation of Sanskrit

word

> >>>Basti and Guhya that are said to be the body parts of Kalapurusha

> >>>represented by Tula and Vrishchika rasi by the Venerated Sage.

> >>>Perhaps I am not as good at English as others, but I do not

think that

> >>>Private parts does not refer to sexual organs.Perhaps some

gentleman

> >>>having good command over English language would like to comment.

As for

> >>>Deha-vivar, the hole you are reffering to, do I really need to

teach

> >>>anatomy on the list? Please check up the meaning of Navadwara.

> >>>Regards,

> >>>Chandrashekhar.

> >>>

> >>

> >>Archives: http://www...comvedic astrology

> >><vedic astrology>

> >>

> >>To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >>

> >>....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ........

> >>

> >>|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >>

> >>To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >>

> >>|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >>

> >>* Sponsor*

> >>

>

><http://us.ard./SIG=129he2tcb/M=298184.5022502.6152625.30011

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://www.

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> >

> >>

------

> >>* Links*

> >>

> >> *

> >> vedic astrology/

> >> *

> >> vedic astrology

> >>

> ><vedic astrology?

subject=Un>

> >

> >> * Terms of

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> >

> > Links

> >

June 18, 2004

Respected Chandrashekhar Sharma ji, Sarbani Sarkar ji and dear

friends,

Very informative and open discussion is taking place here. Please

pardon my interjection.

Do we really need to dissect the human anatomy in such fine details?

The word Guhya is etymologically derived from Guha, which means Cave

generally meaning 'what is Gupt'. Hence 'Guptang' or Guhya bhaag

would include all body parts that are covered by lower undergarment,

both generative and excretory organs.

The connection of Vrischika with reproductive organs is not limited

to astrology. Even in hath-yoga, Vrischikasana (Scorpion Pose) is

recommended for toning up the reproductive organs.

with warm regards,

Arun

vedic astrology, "nameisego" <nameisego>

wrote:

>

> Dear Learned Friends,

>

> The undersigned is rather simple in his approach and understanding.

> So some point sneed to get clearified, it is hoped that they will

be

> answered.

>

> 1) When an organ is mentioned,it generally means a collection of

> various systems to make an organ.

>

> 2) If this is the case, for example, Yoni is an organ. It consists

of

> various systems like Muscular, blood, sexual ,nervous and so on.

>

> Do we understand as per our shastras that Vrischika Rasi stands

for

> only reproductive system but Outer sexual organs like Labia Majora

> orwhatever, are ruled by different planet?

>

> 4th house denotes vehicle. Shall we say that doors are ruled by

> Rahu , engine is ruled Mars, Fuel system is represented by Surya,

> body is represented by Sani.

> Exhaust is again Vrischik rasi, but exhaust pipe is Tula Rasi etc

> and , so on and so forth ???

> If this is the case, what about the Lord of 4th house?

>

> Hope that we are able to reach a consensus soon.

>

> Tatvam-Asi

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> wrote:

> > Dear Sarbani,

> >

> > You are right, We should wait for Sanjay's comments. In the

> meanwhile,

> > since you have no problems discussing human anatomy, let me

clarify

> the

> > difference between various organs in order to remove confusion

> about

> > their function. Here is what Cambridge dictionary says about

> Clitoris.

> > "clitoris [show phonetics] <define.asp?dict=CALD&key=14250&ph=on>

> > noun [C]

> > a sexual organ above the vagina which can give a woman sexual

> pleasure

> > when it is touched" and what it says about Urethra."urethra

[show

> > phonetics] <define.asp?dict=CALD&key=87461&ph=on>

> > noun [C] plural urethras or SPECIALIZED urethrae

> > the tube in most mammals which carries urine from the bladder

out

> of the

> > body. In males it also carries sperm.

> > "

> > I am attaching two diagrams showing Male and female reproductive

> > systems. They will clarify that clitoris is not an excretory

organ

> and

> > Urethra and clitoris are different organs, both located in

Vagina.

> Study

> > them and then we can revert back to the discussion. You will

also

> find

> > similarity in the urethra and seminal fluid carrying in male and

> female

> > reproductory systems, and the route though apparently different

> follows

> > similar delivery systems. This would also clarify any confusion

> about

> > Vagina being exclusively reserved for reproductive purposes as

> there are

> > three sections of it each with different functions.

> > I trust this would remove any confusion about clitoris being the

> organ

> > of delivery of excreta.

> > Regards,

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

> >

> > >Dear Chandrashekharji,

> > >

> > >I agree with you as its highly likely that I have not

understood

> this

> > >properly. I was not attentive I must confess; I happen to

listen

> in to a lot

> > >of things - though not at all carefully - when Sanjayji was

> teaching Visti,

> > >Freedom and Eric. This was not part of the regular class, but

the

> snatch of

> > >a conversation that I overhead. So it's best if Sanjayji

> clarifies.

> > >

> > >But let me comment upon a couple of things. The vagina is an

organ

> > >equivalent to the phallus but EXCLUSIVELY for reproductive

> purposes. It is

> > >used for mating in order that the seminal fluid may be

deposited

> there,

> > >which may be then carried to the uterus via the cervix for

> conception. It is

> > >used for menstruation. It is NOT used for urinary excretion,

which

> is

> > >through the clitoris, the urethra being the internal channel

and

> the

> > >clitoris the outer organ through which the urine is ejected.

The

> phallus on

> > >the other hand is for BOTH reproductive and urinary. This is

the

> difference

> > >between a male and a female. This is probably because the

female

> has very

> > >exclusive reproductive functions: the vagina is the medium

through

> which the

> > >child is delivered to the world and through which menstruation

> takes place.

> > >So its unimaginable that it should be also used for urinary

> purposes. The

> > >male on the other hand have no reproductive functions except

for

> depositing

> > >the seminal fluid. So the phallus doubles as urinary and the

> channel through

> > >which the seminal fluid is ejected.

> > >

> > >I still think the division is between visible and hidden and

not

> between

> > >reproductive and excretory...but I think it may be wise to wait

> for Sanjayji

> > >to download his mails and clarify this to us. I hope you do not

> mind my

> > >discussing physical anatomy but we are all educated adults and

I

> have no

> > >problems in discussing these things openly academically.

> > >

> > >Best regards,

> > >

> > >Sarbani

> > >

> > >Chandrashekhar [boxdel]

> > >Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:41 AM

> > >Sarbani Sarkar

> > >Cc: 'Vedic Astrology Group'

> > >Re: [vedic astrology] More on Scorpio and Guhya

> > >

> > >Dear Sarbani,

> > >There appears to be some confusion here. It would be better if

> Sanjay

> > >comments on this. I am certain he was trying to explain

something

> else.

> > >The reason I say this is, there is contradiction in the

> categorisation

> > >of organs and also understanding of Human anatomy in the

> explanation. I

> > >had not wanted to discuss human anatomy on the list and had

> indicated

> > >this in my message to Visti. However you have done so now, I

think

> it is

> > >better we set the record straight.

> > >If Libra indicates excretory organ and therefore Phallus is

ruled

> by it,

> > >why anus the other excretory organ be ruled by Scorpio and not

> Libra.

> > >The Mollier dictionary translates Guhya as pudenda( mfn.

(Pa1n2. 3-

> 1 ,

> > >109 Ka1s3. g. %{daNDA7di}) to be covered or concealed or hidden

or

> kept

> > >secret , concealable , private , secret , mysterious , mystical

> RV. AV.

> > >&c.* the pudenda *Sus3r. VarBr2S. Katha1s. ii , 56 (cf. 1. %

> {gR4hya})

> > >the anus W.) amongst other meanings and it means per English

> dictionary:

> > >*Definitions*

> > >*pudenda*

> > >/plural noun/

> > >

> > > /pudendum/

> > > 1. The external sexual organs, especially those of a

woman.

> > >

> > >*/Etymology/*: 17c: Latin, literally `things to be ashamed

> of',

> > >from /pudere/ to be ashamed.

> > >

> > >There also appears to be some confusion about Anatomy and

> reproduction

> > >here. Clitoris is not urinary excretory organ but Urethra

> definitely is.

> > >The former is female equivalent of a Male Phallus. The

dictionary

> > >meaning of the former is:

> > >*Definitions*

> > >*clitoris*

> > >/noun/

> > >

> > > /clitorises/

> > > 1. /_anatomy._/

> > > In female mammals: a small highly sensitive organ

> located in

> > > front of the opening of the vagina, which like the

> penis in

> > > males, becomes erect when sexually stimulated.

> > >

> > >*/Derivative/*: clitoral

> > >/adj/

> > >*/Etymology/*: 17c: from Greek /kleitoris/.

> > >

> > >Again if one calls testicles as reproductive organ but excludes

> Phallus

> > >from that category then Vagina should also be excluded as

> reproductive

> > >organ and Ovary substituted for it. I think the confusion is

about

> > >external reproductive organs and internal reproductive organs,

> which

> > >together constitute the entire reproductive system. I think

what

> Sanjay

> > >was trying to convey was that the internal reproductive and

> excretory

> > >organs are governed by Libra and the External ones by Scorpio.

> That is

> > >an absolutely correct statement. Basti is the region of

internal

> > >reproductive and excretory organs and External Reproductive and

> > >Excretory organs ( also known as Sexual organs) are the Guhyas.

> > >..

> > >Regards,

> > >Chandrashekhar.

> > >Sarbani Sarkar wrote:

> > >

> > >>Dear Narasimha,

> > >>

> > >>I do not wish to butt into a discussion among gurus but if I

> recollect

> > >>correctly, what Sanjayji was trying to tell us at that point

is

> that

> > >>Libra represents the visible organs of the pelvic region. This

> > >>includes the clitoris (excretory (urinary) organ) and the

phallus

> > >>(excretory (urinary) and reproductive organ). Scorpio

represents

> the

> > >>organs which are not visible, rather they are hidden…or that

they

> > >>ought to be hidden. These include the anus (excretory organ),

> vagina

> > >>(reproductive organ) and the testicles (reproductive organs).

The

> > >>phallus is primarily excretory, sometimes used for discharging

> seminal

> > >>fluid; the testicles are on the other hand purely reproductive

> organs.

> > >>So the classification is more on the lines of

> > >>visibility/hiding/enshrouding. Scorpio hides both reproductive

> and

> > >>excretory organs. This is as far as I understood.

> > >>

> > >>Best regards,

> > >>

> > >>Sarbani

> > >>

> > >>------------------------------

---

> ------

> > >>

> > >>** Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr@c...]

> > >>*Sent:* Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:35 AM

> > >>*To:* Vedic Astrology Group

> > >>*Subject:* [vedic astrology] More on Scorpio and Guhya

> > >>

> > >>Namaste Visti,

> > >>

> > >>>Dear Chandrashekhar and Narasimha, Namaskar

> > >>>The highlighted portion about people's minds was not meant

for

> you,

> > >>>

> > >>but all

> > >>

> > >>>the other translators of the word Guhya in the classical

books.

> I'm

> > >>>

> > >>sorry if

> > >>

> > >>>you took this phrase wrongly upon you.

> > >>>

> > >>Well, thanks for the clarification. But I am even more

offended

> now.

> > >>

> > >>It is well within your right to believe in what you *think*

your

> guru

> > >>taught you. But, you have no business speculating about the

> mindsets

> > >>of people who translate otherwise. Scholars translated Guhya

the

> way

> > >>they did because it is the only correct way and because other

> classics

> > >>used far less ambiguous words to make things clearer. They did

so

> for

> > >>valid and intelligent reasons. It is certainly not because

> their "mind

> > >>is on sex" as your slur says. Your phrase is offensive even if

it

> was

> > >>not meant for Chandrashekhar ji and me.

> > >>

> > >>For example, the great Dr. B. Suryanarain Row (grandfather of

Dr.

> > >>Raman) associated the term "sexual organs" with Scorpio in his

> > >>translations of Brihajjatakam and Sarvartha Chintamani. In

fact,

> this

> > >>is the standard view of most scholars. If you disagree with

them,

> do

> > >>so respectfully. There is no need for arrogant slurs.

> > >>

> > >>>Now keep in mind that I did not come up with this idea - This

is

> the

> > >>>explanation given to me by Guruji, here goes; Guhya means

hidden

> and

> > >>>

> > >>refers

> > >>

> > >>>to those parts of the body which one cannot see - not those

one

> > >>>

> > >>should hide.

> > >>

> > >>>If you stand up straight and look at the mirror the genitals

> will be

> > >>>perfectly visible, however the anus will not and is hidden by

> the

> > >>>

> > >>buttocks.

> > >>

> > >>>This is what is meant by hidden.

> > >>>

> > >>In Sanskrit, the suffixes -ya and -ta are different. Looks

> like you

> > >>do not understand the difference between them. For example,

pooj

> means

> > >>"to pray to". Poojita means "prayed to". OTOH, "poojya" means

> > >>"prayable" or "one who is worthy of being prayed to".

Similarly,

> laksh

> > >>means "to view". Lakshita means "viewed". Lakshya means "one

that

> is

> > >>worthy of being viewed". That is why lakshya means target.

Sish

> means

> > >>"to refine, discipline and culture". Sishta means a cultured

> person

> > >>(i.e. one who has been refined and cultured). OTOH, sishya

means

> one

> > >>who needs to be refined and cultured. That is why sishya means

a

> > >>student. Similarly, gupta means hidden (e.g. gupta

dhana=hidden

> > >>treasure). But guhya means one that needs to be hidden. In

> mantras,

> > >>secretive mantras that need to be hidden are said to

be "guhyam".

> > >>Anyone who knows Sanskrit well will know that gupta means

hidden

> and

> > >>guhya means "one that needs to be hidden".

> > >>

> > >>So guhyas are not parts that you cannot see in the mirror or

> something

> > >>like that. They are parts that need to be hidden. Basically

they

> are

> > >>the secretive parts of the body (that is why Jataka Parijatam

> uses the

> > >>term "rahasya desa" (secret area) instead of Guhya).

> > >>

> > >>Even if you disagree, please see my earlier quotes from other

> classics

> > >>which are far less ambiguous. Other scholars such as

> Varahamihira,

> > >>Kalyana Verma and Mantreswara used clearer words in the place

of

> > >>Guhya. If one looks at all the classics, all doubts should be

> cleared.

> > >>

> > >>>Libra is the natural 7th house and deals

> > >>>

> > >>>with mating, and this being for the sake of producing

children.

> > >>>

> > >>>Now I never said that Päräçara said this, I said my Guruji

said

> this.

> > >>>

> > >>Take

> > >>

> > >>>it or leave it.

> > >>>

> > >>Visti, had you said just that, it would've been a perfectly

> acceptable

> > >>stand. But there is a huge difference between following one's

> guru and

> > >>*insulting* other great scholars. You have made great

> contributions to

> > >>this list, including the recent postings on celibacy. But

slurs

> on

> > >>scholars such as this "mind on sex" thing are unbecoming of

you.

> > >>Please control yourself in future. You have been such a great

> > >>contributor and I do not want to punish you. I do not even

want

> to

> > >>have to warn you again. Please co-operate..

> > >>

> > >>Also, kindly make sure that you are not misrepresenting your

guru

> > >>here. I say it especially because all the classics are in

> agreement on

> > >>Scorpio and you are contradicting all of them in the name of

your

> guru

> > >>(who is my guru too)!

> > >>

> > >>Libra does represent the pelival region that includes some

body

> parts

> > >>that are important for sexual activity, but the classics are

> clear in

> > >>saying that genitals themselves are represented by Scorpio and

> not Libra..

> > >>

> > >>>As for celibacy, I have AGAIN quoted my Guruji. The rest is

up

> to you.

> > >>>

> > >>I have no complaints with you in that matter! :-)

> > >>

> > >>Role of Mars in celibabcy (or lack of it) is quite complicated

> and

> > >>dualistic.

> > >>

> > >>For example, Parasara and Jaimini both taught that Venus and

Mars

> in

> > >>2nd from swamsa make one very licentious in sexual matters.

This

> is

> > >>the opposite of celibabcy! At the same time, Mars rules over

> > >>Brahmacharyashrama.. He has a dual role to play and various

> scholars,

> > >>including you, have pointed out various factors very nicely.

It

> was a

> > >>nice discussion. Keep it up!

> > >>

> > >>May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > >>

> > >>Narasimha

> > >>

> > >>>Monier Williams gives the following for Basti (vasti);

> > >>>lower belly , abdomen VarBr2S. Ka1s3i1Kh. the pelvis MW.

> > >>>

> > >>>Visti Larsen

> > >>>visti@s <visti@s>...

> > >>>

> > >>>Chandrashekhar [boxdel]

> > >>>14 June 2004 23:05

> > >>>Visti @ Denmark

> > >>>Cc: vedic astrology

> > >>>

> > >><vedic astrology>

> > >>

> > >>>Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Mars.... is he really

karaka

> for

> > >>>

> > >>celebecy

> > >>

> > >>>? To Sjt.Visti Larsen

> > >>>

> > >>>Dear Visti,

> > >>>You wrote" As for sexual organs, Scorpio represents the

private

> parts...

> > >>>this is not

> > >>>the sexual organs but the anus, which is hidden and hence

> private -* when

> > >>>ones mind is on sex then even private parts become sexual

organs!

> *

> > >>>Now I quote Guruji and again state; the 8th house indicates

the

> Anus

> > >>>

> > >>(it is

> > >>

> > >>>private because it is hidden) whilst the 7th house shows the

> reproductive

> > >>>organs."

> > >>>Your statement which I have made in bold types is utterly

> uncalled for

> > >>>and crosses the boundaries of decency.Desist from such

comments

> in

> > >>>future.They are not in good taste.

> > >>>As to what is 8th house, I wish some body takes pains to read

> BPHS

> > >>>Chapter 4 and Shloka3 and 4 before attributing something to

> Parashara.I

> > >>>would like to know what is your English translation of

Sanskrit

> word

> > >>>Basti and Guhya that are said to be the body parts of

Kalapurusha

> > >>>represented by Tula and Vrishchika rasi by the Venerated Sage.

> > >>>Perhaps I am not as good at English as others, but I do not

> think that

> > >>>Private parts does not refer to sexual organs.Perhaps some

> gentleman

> > >>>having good command over English language would like to

comment.

> As for

> > >>>Deha-vivar, the hole you are reffering to, do I really need

to

> teach

> > >>>anatomy on the list? Please check up the meaning of Navadwara.

> > >>>Regards,

> > >>>Chandrashekhar.

> > >>>

> > >>

> > >>Archives: http://www...comvedic astrology

> > >><vedic astrology>

> > >>

> > >>Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> > >>

> > >>To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> > >>

> > >>....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ........

> > >>

> > >>|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > >>

> > >>Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> > >>

> > >>To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> > >>

> > >>|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > >>

> > >>* Sponsor*

> > >>

> >

>

><http://us.ard./SIG=129he2tcb/M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001

1

> 76/D=gr

> >

>

>oups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1087483022/A=2164339/R=0/SIG=11e2d64in/*htt

p

> ://www.

> > >netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183348>

> > >

> > >>

> > >>------------------------------

---

> ------

> > >>* Links*

> > >>

> > >> *

> > >> vedic astrology/

> > >> *

> > >> vedic astrology

> > >>

> > ><vedic astrology?

> subject=Un>

> > >

> > >> * Terms

of

> > >> Service <>.

> > >>

> > >

> > >Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> > >

> > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> > >

> > > Links

> > >

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