Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 |Hare Räma Kåñëa| Dear Narasimha, Namaskar Baby steps are required in this matter – comments to all your statements below. Best wishes, bold">Visti Larsen color:#4E81C4"> visti (AT) (DOT) org Verdana;color:#4E81C4"> padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net] 30 June 2004 03:43 Vedic Astrology Group [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Hare Rama Krishna font-family:Arial">Namaste Visti and friends, font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">> 1.Is the formula given by you different to what's used in JHL > > [Visti] The Formula is the same, only it does not use degrees like JHora > does. font-family:Arial">As the author of JHora, I have to clarify one thing. Some people may be thinking that I have a disagreement with Sanjay ji and hence programmed this way. I will set the record straight. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">I programmed JHora the way I did, NOT because I believed in using degrees, but because Sanjay ji explicitly instructed me to program that way. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Based on the language used by Parasara, I strongly felt that signs should be counted and not degrees. I said that to Sanjay ji 2-3 years back. But he felt otherwise. Because I did not do much work on Varnada lagna and hence did not have much empirical data to support my interpretation, I went with Sanjay ji's interpretation and programmed it like that. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Probably Sanjay ji had a change of mind, but he never communicated that to me. I am glad Visti mentioned this. Just for the record, I have absolutely no disagreement with this "no degrees, only signs" interpretation. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Though I have already done a "code freeze" for the JHora and JHoraLite releases of Thursday and did not want to make any further code changes, I MAY try to get this VL computation in. If not, the next release will have the correct VL. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Now, regarding Visti's chart: font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">> [Visti] Räçi dåñöi and look at both the sign and lord. The Lord indicates that which font-family:Arial">> you are guided to do. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">> > > Your VL is in gemini. 11th lord from gemini is mars. Your mars is in > > > leo and does get sign aspect by Jupiter. > > > > > > So do we take it from this teaching jyotish will be more suited to > > > you than actually practicing it as a profession? font-family:Arial">> > > font-family:Arial">> > > Kasim > > font-family:Arial">> > Because of this position some have thought that my Hora Lagna could be in Libra font-family:Arial">> > which would change the Varëada Lagna to Sagittarius. But yes Jupiter’s influence font-family:Arial">> > clearly indicates teaching. font-family:Arial">> font-family:Arial">> Correction: Varëada Lagna would be in Aquarius incase of my Hora Lagna in Libra, hence making the 11th there-from Sagittarius. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Well, this principle is not from Parasara to the best of my knowledge. It is from Jaimini. My general advice is to be very careful with principles from Jaimini Sutram, as there is a good chance that our understanding is totally off. Jaimini Sutram is far more complex than BPHS. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Having said that, I will make some observations assuming that Sanjay ji's translation of Jaimini Sutram is perfect. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">It is not always the 11th from VL. Jaimini talks about the VL or the 7th from VL and says that the 11th from there shows the varna/class (varna bhedena labhabhyam mriga varnam - 4.1.32). In all likelihood, this means taking the stronger of VL and 7th from it and then taking the 11th from it. bold;font-style:italic">[Visti] I asked this same question to Guruji when he taught Varëada lagna, and he said that the 7th was only important when there’s talk of someone else being responsible for the actual income – i.e. take the example of house-wives. Similarly the 11th from the 7th is the 5th, and hence indicates the support you get incase of rulership. He hence told me to ignore this principle for the average charts. font-family:"URW Palladio IT";color:navy"> font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Even if Visti's VL is in Ge and not Aq, you have to take the 7th from VL (Sg) as it is stronger. From there, 11th is Libra. It contains Jupiter and it is owned by Venus. Your criteria are satisfied. bold;font-style:italic">[Visti] I get a lot of support from my students – your right. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">However, I want to caution against reading too much from the 11th from VL/7th. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">Take Dr. B.V. Raman's example. VL is in Cancer. The 11th is Taurus and owned by Venus. Jupiter does not have sign aspect (that is what you prescribed) on either Taurus or Venus. Does it mean he was not a teacher? The same holds for Sanjay ji. His VL is in Li. The 11th is Leo. The 11th lord is Sun. Neither has Jupiter's sign aspect. Both are known as great teachers. bold;font-style:italic">[Visti] Good – now can you count on your fingers how much money Sanjayji has earned from teaching? Remember this is a question of sustenance and not ability. Ability is seen from Navämça. KN Rao’s chart does not have the influence of Venus, but does have the influence of a strong Jupiter – and he has earned a lot from traveling and teaching. font-family:"URW Palladio IT";color:navy"> font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">The probability that Jupiter has a sign aspect on the 11th from VL or the 11th lord from VL in any random chart is about 8/9. The same probability holds for Venus. This probability is quite high. Thus, most people have this combination. If 89 out of 100 people have the combination required for being an astrology teacher (i.e. it is a common combination) and yet two of the greatest astrology teachers do not have it, what good is the combination? bold;font-style:italic">[Visti] Regarding the two great astrologers, I have clarified above. bold;font-style:italic">There are 9 grahas and 2 of them have been mentioned. They have been mentioned because they indicate the Brahmin Varëa! Incase of singers, actors, poets, writers, astronomers, mathematicians, priests and teachers – Jupiter must also have an association with the 11th from VL. Incase of psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors, astrologers, consultants and similar consultant professions which involves the interaction of other people – Venus must be involved.. color:navy"> font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">One should be careful not to read too much into any single parameter of Jyotish. If VL shows one's career, what are D-10, 10th from lagna, 10th from Moon and A10 etc for? VL probably shows one's varna (the class to which one belongs, by one's activities), i.e. whether one does Brahminical work or Kshatriya work or Vaisya work or Sudra work. But to read whether one predicts well or not and whether one is a teacher or not from it may be a bit of a stretch. In the related verses, Jaimini only talked about Brahmanas, Kshatriyas etc and no further classification! One should be very careful when extending or extrapolating Jaimini. I hope my criticism is taken in the right spirit. bold;font-style:italic">[Visti] Your passion is commended. bold;font-style:italic">Keep in mind that the Varëada lagna is specifically to see that which sustains you in this world, and is one among many variables. Once one has identified the Varëa the next step is to see the title the person holds within that Varëa. Titles are a definition of the self, and hence the Lagna and Ärüòha Lagna are perused (and the Navämça to see whether one is good at it), to determine the title the person holds within that Varëa. Next step is to see what the person does with that title – Dasamsa. A psychologist may use their expertise in the movie industry to determine which colors are appropriate for the viewers. Or they maybe a private practitioner for clients. Or they may use their skills in promoting the environment of companies – I have met some psychologists who are hired in companies to ensure the good work environment of the company. Similarly the versatility of other professions must be considered. Mars can indicate anything from soldier to engineer or cook – and there’s a big difference between each. bold;font-style:italic"> bold;font-style:italic">10th from Lagna, Moon, Sun and Ärüòha lagna, are use to see the direction of work and the overall fortune arising from them. Each of them requires separate clarification which we can talk about later. font-family:Arial"> font-family:Arial">May Jupiter's light shine on us, font-family:Arial">Narasimha 12.0pt"> 12.0pt"> Archives: vedic astrology To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Attachment: (image/jpeg) image001.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya:: Dear Narasimha Do not make changes. Let Visti, Barbara and others do their homework and study this hard. Let their doubts go ONLY after testing every option. Then alone should the change be made. With best regards, Sanjay Rath SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com - "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:13 AM [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification Hare Rama Krishna Namaste Visti and friends, > 1.Is the formula given by you different to what's used in JHL > > [Visti] The Formula is the same, only it does not use degrees like JHora > does. As the author of JHora, I have to clarify one thing. Some people may be thinking that I have a disagreement with Sanjay ji and hence programmed this way. I will set the record straight. I programmed JHora the way I did, NOT because I believed in using degrees, but because Sanjay ji explicitly instructed me to program that way. Based on the language used by Parasara, I strongly felt that signs should be counted and not degrees. I said that to Sanjay ji 2-3 years back. But he felt otherwise. Because I did not do much work on Varnada lagna and hence did not have much empirical data to support my interpretation, I went with Sanjay ji's interpretation and programmed it like that. Probably Sanjay ji had a change of mind, but he never communicated that to me. I am glad Visti mentioned this. Just for the record, I have absolutely no disagreement with this "no degrees, only signs" interpretation. Though I have already done a "code freeze" for the JHora and JHoraLite releases of Thursday and did not want to make any further code changes, I MAY try to get this VL computation in. If not, the next release will have the correct VL. Now, regarding Visti's chart: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Hare Rama Krishna Pranaam Sanjay, Actually, I changed the code within an hour of sending that mail. I cannot undo the change now. The release process is a bit cumbersome. I have to build the lite version, lite version with minimal help, 5.0-to-6.0 upgrade patch and finally the full 6.0 version. I have to build the installers and zip them and keep them ready for uploading tomorrow night after the Satya Narayana vratam. Also, I have to test them and make sure they are ok. It is a procedure that takes two hours. I changed the VL computation and rebuilt everything yesterday night. It is midnight already and I still have to update some internet pages related to this (for uploading tomorrow). Tomorrow will be tight, as I have office, then vratam and then uploading. So I cannot revert back to the old VL definition. That is ruled out. The new JH and JHLite will have VL computed by counting rasis and not degrees. In any case, this is my personal view too. I was and am fully convinced that signs must be counted and not degrees. When I heard Visti say the same thing, I assumed you had taught it to him and became happy that one more disagreement between us is gone. So I immediately made the change. :-) If you want the old degree-based computation back, I can add it back for the next release. Sorry... May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha - "Sanjay Rath" <guruji "Sanjay Rath" <guruji; "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology>; "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:52 PM Re: [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > > > ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya:: > Dear Narasimha > Do not make changes. Let Visti, Barbara and others do their homework and > study this hard. Let their doubts go ONLY after testing every option. Then > alone should the change be made. > With best regards, > Sanjay Rath > SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India > Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com > > - > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr > "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> > Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:13 AM > [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > > > Hare Rama Krishna > Namaste Visti and friends, > > > 1.Is the formula given by you different to what's used in JHL > > > > [Visti] The Formula is the same, only it does not use degrees like JHora > > does. > > As the author of JHora, I have to clarify one thing. Some people may be > thinking that I have a disagreement with Sanjay ji and hence programmed this > way. I will set the record straight. > > I programmed JHora the way I did, NOT because I believed in using degrees, > but because Sanjay ji explicitly instructed me to program that way. > > Based on the language used by Parasara, I strongly felt that signs should be > counted and not degrees. I said that to Sanjay ji 2-3 years back. But he > felt otherwise. Because I did not do much work on Varnada lagna and hence > did not have much empirical data to support my interpretation, I went with > Sanjay ji's interpretation and programmed it like that. > > Probably Sanjay ji had a change of mind, but he never communicated that to > me. I am glad Visti mentioned this. Just for the record, I have absolutely > no disagreement with this "no degrees, only signs" interpretation. > > Though I have already done a "code freeze" for the JHora and JHoraLite > releases of Thursday and did not want to make any further code changes, I > MAY try to get this VL computation in. If not, the next release will have > the correct VL. > > Now, regarding Visti's chart: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 |Hare Rama Krsna| Dear Narasimha, Guruji taught us both methods of calculation in Puri, and we tested both methods out on all the charts we encountered. The outcome was clearly in favor of the method without the use of degrees. Because Guruji didn't object to this use, and the evidence was clearly in favor of the method, I assumed that this was the correct method. But it would only be in 50% of charts that the VL's will differ in calculation. Simply add the degrees (expunging signs) of the Lagna and Hora Lagna. If this exceeds 30 degrees, know that there are two options for the VL. i.e. if Lagna is 14 degrees, and Hora Lagna is 2 degrees, then the VL will be the same in both cases. If Lagna is 14 degrees and Hora Lagna is 18 degrees, then VL will be different in both the mentioned calculations. So checking the above first can speed the process and give one the option of looking at both. Best wishes, Visti Larsen visti Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] 01 July 2004 06:15 Vedic Astrology Group [vedic astrology] Re: JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification Hare Rama Krishna Pranaam Sanjay, Actually, I changed the code within an hour of sending that mail. I cannot undo the change now. The release process is a bit cumbersome. I have to build the lite version, lite version with minimal help, 5.0-to-6.0 upgrade patch and finally the full 6.0 version. I have to build the installers and zip them and keep them ready for uploading tomorrow night after the Satya Narayana vratam. Also, I have to test them and make sure they are ok. It is a procedure that takes two hours. I changed the VL computation and rebuilt everything yesterday night. It is midnight already and I still have to update some internet pages related to this (for uploading tomorrow). Tomorrow will be tight, as I have office, then vratam and then uploading. So I cannot revert back to the old VL definition. That is ruled out. The new JH and JHLite will have VL computed by counting rasis and not degrees. In any case, this is my personal view too. I was and am fully convinced that signs must be counted and not degrees. When I heard Visti say the same thing, I assumed you had taught it to him and became happy that one more disagreement between us is gone. So I immediately made the change. :-) If you want the old degree-based computation back, I can add it back for the next release. Sorry... May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha - "Sanjay Rath" <guruji "Sanjay Rath" <guruji; "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology>; "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:52 PM Re: [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > > > ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya:: > Dear Narasimha > Do not make changes. Let Visti, Barbara and others do their homework and > study this hard. Let their doubts go ONLY after testing every option. Then > alone should the change be made. > With best regards, > Sanjay Rath > SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India > Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com > > - > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr > "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> > Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:13 AM > [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > > > Hare Rama Krishna > Namaste Visti and friends, > > > 1.Is the formula given by you different to what's used in JHL > > > > [Visti] The Formula is the same, only it does not use degrees like JHora > > does. > > As the author of JHora, I have to clarify one thing. Some people may be > thinking that I have a disagreement with Sanjay ji and hence programmed this > way. I will set the record straight. > > I programmed JHora the way I did, NOT because I believed in using degrees, > but because Sanjay ji explicitly instructed me to program that way. > > Based on the language used by Parasara, I strongly felt that signs should be > counted and not degrees. I said that to Sanjay ji 2-3 years back. But he > felt otherwise. Because I did not do much work on Varnada lagna and hence > did not have much empirical data to support my interpretation, I went with > Sanjay ji's interpretation and programmed it like that. > > Probably Sanjay ji had a change of mind, but he never communicated that to > me. I am glad Visti mentioned this. Just for the record, I have absolutely > no disagreement with this "no degrees, only signs" interpretation. > > Though I have already done a "code freeze" for the JHora and JHoraLite > releases of Thursday and did not want to make any further code changes, I > MAY try to get this VL computation in. If not, the next release will have > the correct VL. > > Now, regarding Visti's chart: Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya:: Dear Visti That evidence is not recorded..so you have to write in detail about it and the data used was not sufficient. You have to work on about 100 charts before coming to a conclusion. Then when you say what you are saying will everyone believe you and our study would be scientific. Do this first befire recording your conclusions. With best regards, Sanjay Rath SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com - "Visti Larsen" <visti <vedic astrology> Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:07 AM RE: [vedic astrology] Re: JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification |Hare Rama Krsna| Dear Narasimha, Guruji taught us both methods of calculation in Puri, and we tested both methods out on all the charts we encountered. The outcome was clearly in favor of the method without the use of degrees. Because Guruji didn't object to this use, and the evidence was clearly in favor of the method, I assumed that this was the correct method. But it would only be in 50% of charts that the VL's will differ in calculation. Simply add the degrees (expunging signs) of the Lagna and Hora Lagna. If this exceeds 30 degrees, know that there are two options for the VL. i.e. if Lagna is 14 degrees, and Hora Lagna is 2 degrees, then the VL will be the same in both cases. If Lagna is 14 degrees and Hora Lagna is 18 degrees, then VL will be different in both the mentioned calculations. So checking the above first can speed the process and give one the option of looking at both. Best wishes, Visti Larsen visti Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr] 01 July 2004 06:15 Vedic Astrology Group [vedic astrology] Re: JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification Hare Rama Krishna Pranaam Sanjay, Actually, I changed the code within an hour of sending that mail. I cannot undo the change now. The release process is a bit cumbersome. I have to build the lite version, lite version with minimal help, 5.0-to-6.0 upgrade patch and finally the full 6.0 version. I have to build the installers and zip them and keep them ready for uploading tomorrow night after the Satya Narayana vratam. Also, I have to test them and make sure they are ok. It is a procedure that takes two hours. I changed the VL computation and rebuilt everything yesterday night. It is midnight already and I still have to update some internet pages related to this (for uploading tomorrow). Tomorrow will be tight, as I have office, then vratam and then uploading. So I cannot revert back to the old VL definition. That is ruled out. The new JH and JHLite will have VL computed by counting rasis and not degrees. In any case, this is my personal view too. I was and am fully convinced that signs must be counted and not degrees. When I heard Visti say the same thing, I assumed you had taught it to him and became happy that one more disagreement between us is gone. So I immediately made the change. :-) If you want the old degree-based computation back, I can add it back for the next release. Sorry... May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha - "Sanjay Rath" <guruji "Sanjay Rath" <guruji; "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology>; "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:52 PM Re: [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > > > ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya:: > Dear Narasimha > Do not make changes. Let Visti, Barbara and others do their homework and > study this hard. Let their doubts go ONLY after testing every option. Then > alone should the change be made. > With best regards, > Sanjay Rath > SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India > Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com > > - > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr > "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> > Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:13 AM > [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > > > Hare Rama Krishna > Namaste Visti and friends, > > > 1.Is the formula given by you different to what's used in JHL > > > > [Visti] The Formula is the same, only it does not use degrees like JHora > > does. > > As the author of JHora, I have to clarify one thing. Some people may be > thinking that I have a disagreement with Sanjay ji and hence programmed this > way. I will set the record straight. > > I programmed JHora the way I did, NOT because I believed in using degrees, > but because Sanjay ji explicitly instructed me to program that way. > > Based on the language used by Parasara, I strongly felt that signs should be > counted and not degrees. I said that to Sanjay ji 2-3 years back. But he > felt otherwise. Because I did not do much work on Varnada lagna and hence > did not have much empirical data to support my interpretation, I went with > Sanjay ji's interpretation and programmed it like that. > > Probably Sanjay ji had a change of mind, but he never communicated that to > me. I am glad Visti mentioned this. Just for the record, I have absolutely > no disagreement with this "no degrees, only signs" interpretation. > > Though I have already done a "code freeze" for the JHora and JHoraLite > releases of Thursday and did not want to make any further code changes, I > MAY try to get this VL computation in. If not, the next release will have > the correct VL. > > Now, regarding Visti's chart: Sponsor ---------- ---- vedic astrology/ b.. vedic astrology c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Dear Sanjay Rath, Hare Rama Krsna! I had a discussion with Visti just prior to this list discussion regarding my Varnada Lagna, so I consider my chart a bit as a seed to the discussion, somehow or other, so let's make the analysis. I see the calculation has been changed in the latest JhoraLite. My chart had the Varnada Lagna in Pisces using the older calculation (with degrees), using only signs it would be Aquarius. In that case Varnada Lagna is in Taurus Navamsa with Jupiter! Indeed, brahminical service, I'm pujari of Jagannath. VL in Pisces at about 5 degrees would go into Leo Navamsa, which is empty and gives more administrative power? Not so likely. It appears older versions of JhoraLite had the sign only calculation as well. Yours, Dhira Krsna dasa, Jyotishi http://www.radhadesh.com http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Namaste all, Examples can be misleading especially if our understanding is imperfect. The "Jupiter in VL in navamsa" thing I mentioned was noticed by me in a handful of charts and I honestly did not do much research. It can be wrong, though it is based on solid logic (in my opinion :-). Secondly, Visti does not agree with me, but I do think one's varna does have something to do with one's abilities. A person is a Brahmana because of certain abilities. A person is a Kshatriya because of certain abilities. One's abilities decide one's dharma and varna dharma is part of one's dharma. One's varna is decided by one's varna dharma. Regarding the definition of VL, Parasara talks about counting (as in "counting signs") and not about measuring (as in "measuring distance"). He was clearly talking about counting rasis. Also, he used the word "meenaadeh". If he had wanted us to count the angle from the end of Meena, he would have used "Meenaantaat" or something like that. The expression "starting from Meena" without a reference to the "end of Meena" clearly shows that this is counting of signs and not measuring the angle from the end of Meena. I have no doubt. Counting signs IS correct. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha - "Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr; "Sanjay Rath" <guruji; "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:37 PM [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > Dear Sanjay Rath, > > Hare Rama Krsna! > > I had a discussion with Visti just prior to this list discussion regarding > my Varnada Lagna, so I consider my chart a bit as a seed to the > discussion, somehow or other, so let's make the analysis. I see the > calculation has been changed in the latest JhoraLite. My chart had the > Varnada Lagna in Pisces using the older calculation (with degrees), using > only signs it would be Aquarius. In that case Varnada Lagna is in Taurus > Navamsa with Jupiter! Indeed, brahminical service, I'm pujari of > Jagannath. VL in Pisces at about 5 degrees would go into Leo Navamsa, > which is empty and gives more administrative power? Not so likely. > > It appears older versions of JhoraLite had the sign only calculation as > well. > > Yours, > Dhira Krsna dasa, > Jyotishi > http://www.radhadesh.com > http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 |Hare Räma Kåñëa| Dear Narasimha, Namaskar To clarify; I do not disagree with the concept of Varna being linked to ones abilities, but throughout the discussion i have only talked about 11th from Varëada Lagna which specifically deals with the opportunities for the acquisition of wealth. If we are talking about Varna as a definition of self and abilities then we are no longer talking about the 11th from Varëada Lagna, but the Varëada Lagna itself. This was for clarification of my opinion. Yours, bold">Visti Larsen color:#4E81C4"> visti (AT) (DOT) org Verdana;color:#4E81C4"> padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net] 05 July 2004 21:09 Dhira Krsna BCS; Sanjay Rath; Vedic Astrology Group [vedic astrology] Re: JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification 12.0pt"> 10.0pt">Namaste all, Examples can be misleading especially if our understanding is imperfect. The "Jupiter in VL in navamsa" thing I mentioned was noticed by me in a handful of charts and I honestly did not do much research. It can be wrong, though it is based on solid logic (in my opinion :-). Secondly, Visti does not agree with me, but I do think one's varna does have something to do with one's abilities. A person is a Brahmana because of certain abilities. A person is a Kshatriya because of certain abilities. One's abilities decide one's dharma and varna dharma is part of one's dharma. One's varna is decided by one's varna dharma. Regarding the definition of VL, Parasara talks about counting (as in "counting signs") and not about measuring (as in "measuring distance"). He was clearly talking about counting rasis. Also, he used the word "meenaadeh". If he had wanted us to count the angle from the end of Meena, he would have used "Meenaantaat" or something like that. The expression "starting from Meena" without a reference to the "end of Meena" clearly shows that this is counting of signs and not measuring the angle from the end of Meena. I have no doubt. Counting signs IS correct. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha - "Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>; "Sanjay Rath" <guruji (AT) srath (DOT) com>; "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:37 PM [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > Dear Sanjay Rath, > > Hare Rama Krsna! > > I had a discussion with Visti just prior to this list discussion regarding > my Varnada Lagna, so I consider my chart a bit as a seed to the > discussion, somehow or other, so let's make the analysis. I see the > calculation has been changed in the latest JhoraLite. My chart had the > Varnada Lagna in Pisces using the older calculation (with degrees), using > only signs it would be Aquarius. In that case Varnada Lagna is in Taurus > Navamsa with Jupiter! Indeed, brahminical service, I'm pujari of > Jagannath. VL in Pisces at about 5 degrees would go into Leo Navamsa, > which is empty and gives more administrative power? Not so likely. > > It appears older versions of JhoraLite had the sign only calculation as > well. > > Yours, > Dhira Krsna dasa, > Jyotishi > http://www.radhadesh.com > http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Attachment: (image/jpeg) image001.jpg [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya:: Dear Narasimha & Dhira Krsna Yes your points are right about reckoning signs and JH v6.0 has this done correctly so that it becomes easy for people. Navamsa is the dharma amsa and is a reflection of the inner self. Narasimha's research is very novel and does show the inner nature of a person. To what extent this is going to manifest will depend on the dasa, rasi position etc. However the placement of VL in rasi is very important and cannot be ignored. The signs occupied by lord of VL and more importantly lord of 11th from VL are crucial. Reckoning of signs is right as in another reference to the varna of the signs, the term used is w.r.t. counting from Mina rasi i.e. entire pisces is brahmin, then aries is kshatriya, then taurus is vaishya and then gemini is sudra and this continues for the other signs as well. sign boundaries define the social boundaries or natural boundaries. Once again, Narasimha's research is very novel and I am requesting him to write a paper outlining the method used as well as various examples for the Jyotish Digest. This will be for good record and all references of slokas etc will be readily available for all readers. With best regards, Sanjay Rath SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com - "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr "Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS; "Sanjay Rath" <guruji; "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:39 AM Re: JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification Namaste all, Examples can be misleading especially if our understanding is imperfect. The "Jupiter in VL in navamsa" thing I mentioned was noticed by me in a handful of charts and I honestly did not do much research. It can be wrong, though it is based on solid logic (in my opinion :-). Secondly, Visti does not agree with me, but I do think one's varna does have something to do with one's abilities. A person is a Brahmana because of certain abilities. A person is a Kshatriya because of certain abilities. One's abilities decide one's dharma and varna dharma is part of one's dharma. One's varna is decided by one's varna dharma. Regarding the definition of VL, Parasara talks about counting (as in "counting signs") and not about measuring (as in "measuring distance"). He was clearly talking about counting rasis. Also, he used the word "meenaadeh". If he had wanted us to count the angle from the end of Meena, he would have used "Meenaantaat" or something like that. The expression "starting from Meena" without a reference to the "end of Meena" clearly shows that this is counting of signs and not measuring the angle from the end of Meena. I have no doubt. Counting signs IS correct. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha - "Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr; "Sanjay Rath" <guruji; "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology> Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:37 PM [vedic astrology] JHora and Varnada Lagna Clarification > Dear Sanjay Rath, > > Hare Rama Krsna! > > I had a discussion with Visti just prior to this list discussion regarding > my Varnada Lagna, so I consider my chart a bit as a seed to the > discussion, somehow or other, so let's make the analysis. I see the > calculation has been changed in the latest JhoraLite. My chart had the > Varnada Lagna in Pisces using the older calculation (with degrees), using > only signs it would be Aquarius. In that case Varnada Lagna is in Taurus > Navamsa with Jupiter! Indeed, brahminical service, I'm pujari of > Jagannath. VL in Pisces at about 5 degrees would go into Leo Navamsa, > which is empty and gives more administrative power? Not so likely. > > It appears older versions of JhoraLite had the sign only calculation as > well. > > Yours, > Dhira Krsna dasa, > Jyotishi > http://www.radhadesh.com > http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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