Pt. Rath & other Astrologers... My 2 cents worth. To Sri Pradeep

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep ji,

 

Self is no scholar. He is a student of Astrology like any one of you.

 

In a Mundane chart of a country,10H is Rajyasthana or Karmasthana,

the seat of governence.Simhasana etc.

 

Lagna is the Karta/head,meaning King /President.

 

4th house may represent the house /palace etc but it also signifies

Praja.Karma sthana cannot be society.

It is the 4th house that would make up praja.

 

Sometimes we give too much importance to deeper meanings of aroodha

padas and various amsas from D1 to D60 and further on.

In this process we start neglacting basic philosophy.

 

Why not start with looking at astrology with a child's eye and start

adopting/using simpler approach first and then if we fail to arrive

at an answer, proceed further ?

 

A PROBLEM IS AS COMPLICATED AS WE MAKE IT TO BE.

 

Tatvam-Asi

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Tatwam asi ji

>

> I am no scholar to question the views expressed by scholars like

you

> and Shri Narashima Rao ji.

> Kindly treat this as doubts.

>

> Pandit Sanjay Rath's words do reveal the humility and flexibility

> that every astrologer should strive for. Respect for him as fixed

> realms is no help towards the unfolding of any knowledge.Knowledge

> is dynamic and not static.

>

> Division three(drekkana) represnts Siblings.Thus 3 houses after our

> lagna represents our younger siblings as they are born later.

> Similarly 3 houses prior to lagna(11th house) represent our elder

> siblings as they arrived earlier.

>

> Division 2 (Hora) represents wealth.Thus 2nd house represents the

> resources we have in possession while 12th house( second prior to

> lagna), represent the resources which have been used up.

>

> Division 4 (chathuramsha) represents environment ,properties,

> happiness(manasukha etc). Thus 4th house represents our home or

> the environment which is closer to us, having relevance and

relation

> after our birth as far as we are concerned and providing the said

> happiness.

>

> 10th house represent 4 houses prior to our birth in other words the

> environment which has been existing before, providing happiness at a

> macro level or in other words the society.

>

> Karmas are evaluated in a relative fashion, ie our actions with

> respect to other members of society.For the same reason 10th house

> is Karma sthana or the playing field for exercising ones actions.

>

> Thus my understanding takes 4th house as home or palace or

> throne.Fourth lord represents the owner of it? Thus 4th house, the

> planets there and 4th lord will show the nature of throne and kind

of

> throne.

>

> Thus I believe 10th house represents Karma sthana or society.Kindly

> correct me.

>

> Thanks & Regds

> Pradeep

>

>

> vedic astrology, "nameisego"

<nameisego>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Chi. Narasimha,

> >

> > Self would like to reply to your posting and Sri. Raman's also

> > starting with a

> > quote by Sri. Sanjay Rath.

> >

> >

> > QUOTE......

> >

> > ""None of us has a perfect understanding of

> > Jyotish and our tools are far from perfect. Some may

> > be too proud to

> > accept this, but this is the truth. We are all trying

> > to improve

> > constantly. I too have attempted many puzzles before,

> > some

> > successfully and some with failure and know the

> > limitations very

> > well. Let us show respect for someone for trying and

> > improve

> > collectively, rather than criticizing

> > someone.".............. UNQUOTE

> > Chi. Narasimha has also written almost same thing sometime back.

> >

> >

> > When self took up answering Mr. Poolaat's posting, it was with a

> view

> > to read the charts posted by Pt. Rath from a different

perspective.

> > And that is what has been done. It is not an exercise to show

> someone

> > in bad light.

> >

> > Chi. Narasimha has given arguement that 10th house denotes King.

> > May be you have that understanding. But self thinks that 10th

> house

> > is KARMASTHANAM/RAJYASTHANAM and it denotes RAJYA and not Raja.

> > 10H denotes karma and not Karta.

> > King's praja must be seen from the 4th house.

> >

> > Karta/king is be seen from Lagna and lagnadhipati.

> > Nature of King is to be seen from planets in Lagna.

> > To run a kingdom, kruratva is very essential in Kaliyug.

> > Hence presence of Krura Planets in Lagna shows more successful

> king.

> > When looking for result of an election, looking at 6th house

> > is essential as 6H denotes Shatrus/Rivals.

> >

> > You may not agree with anything that is written by self because

> ways

> > and means adopted by

> > self are radically different with what you have been used to

> seeing.

> > You have rightly said that my observation of US annual charts is

> NOT

> > LOGICAL AT ALL. !!

> > Astrology by itself defies Logic to scientists and people at

large.

> >

> > When a plan of a building is seen,

> >

> > An engineer has a different perspective,

> > A robber has a different perspective,

> > A terrorist has a different perspective.

> > (One looks for strength and others looks for weakness in plan.)

> >

> > A Vastu shastri/Feng-shui practitioner has a different

> > perspective .... and so on.

> >

> >

> > Coming to your observation about Nation,

> > 1st house denotes the Head of the nation,(Karta)

> > 4th house denotes Nation

> > and 10th house denotes Pentagon/ (In case of USA).

> >

> > If you have your ideas different from self, you are welcome to

> have

> > them.

> > Same thing goes to Grahas and Houses arguement put forth by you.

> >

> > Self treats TP chart/Prasna chart or any aroodha chart with the

> same

> > yardstick

> > and is getting contantly good result.

> >

> > Let us stick to our ways which might differ at many points.

> > What is important is to find out easier method of prognostication.

> >

> > Tatvam-Asi

> >

> >

> > -- In vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

> > <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > > Namaste Sir,

> > >

> > > IMHO, your interpretation of US annual charts is not logical at

> > all. In natal/annual charts of individuals (e.g. competing

> > politicians), 1st shows the native and 6th shows the rival. That

> is

> > perfect. However, in the chart of the nation itself, the 1st

house

> > shows the entire nation and the 6th house shows the

rivals/enemies

> of

> > the nation. Using the 1st and 6th for the rulers and the

> opposition

> > is not at all logical. A nation and its leader are different. US

> > annual chart belongs to the nation and not just to its leader.

> > >

> > > Application of 1st/6th criterion to the Republican nomination

> chart

> > is fine. But, applying it to the annual charts of USA is not

> logical.

> > >

> > > The criterion used by Sanjay ji (10th showing rulers and 3rd

> > showing opposition) is quite logical in mundane astrology.

> > >

> > > However, I am not 100% sure if houses should be seen or if

graha

> > arudhas of those house lords would be more appropriate. The 10th

> > house shows the overall administration experienced by the nation.

> The

> > 10th lord shows the application of intelligence towards that end.

> > Always, houses are inanimate and house lords are animate. House

> lords

> > show the animated life force (or engine) driving the matters of a

> > house. Arudhas of house lords show the tangible manifestation of

> the

> > driving force, i.e. real people in flesh. If the 10th house in an

> > annual chart of a nation is bad, administration in a year is

poor.

> If

> > the 10th lord is bad, the thinking and attitude of the

> administration

> > is poor. If the graha arudha of 10th lord is afflicted, it is bad

> for

> > the ruler(s).

> > >

> > > Arudhas are always tangible things. Arudhas of houses are

> tangible

> > inanimate things (e.g. A5 can be an award). Arudhas of house

lords

> > are tangible animated things (i.e. persons).

> > >

> > > In any case, I must make one very basic point regarding the

> > original question raised. With due respect to Sanjay ji and

others

> > involved in this discussion, I must point out the data used is

> > extremely suspect. Do you honestly think that the USA chart used

> is

> > correct? God knows. There are so many versions. Sanjay ji himself

> > earlier talked about a mundane chart becoming invalid after 144

> years

> > and used the 1920 chart (cast after 144 years from 1776) for

> timing

> > the Iraq war. God knows why he still uses the 1776 chart for TP.

> This

> > whole approach he outlined in the article quoted is interesting,

> but

> > there are too many questions regarding it.

> > >

> > > In general, it is wise to use data that we are confident of.

> This

> > includes natal charts of leaders, nomination acceptance charts,

> > lunar/solar new year charts and lunar/solar eclipse charts.

> > Independence charts of nations are usually suspect. USA chart is

> the

> > worst (i.e. most controversial) in that respect.

> > >

> > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > Narasimha

> > >

> > > > Dear Mr. Poolaat,

> > > >

> > > > Knowledge of self is very limited . But simple principles

read

> in

> > > > simple manner give true picture.

> > > >

> > > > Only thing that self always considers in win/lose contests or

> > > > elections is,Take 1st house and 6th house as two contestants.

> > > > (7th house may be considered as opposition but it does not

> apply

> > in

> > > > contests )

> > > >

> > > > One must take contestants as enemies.

> > > > Hence take 6th lord as opposit of 1st lord.

> > > > Now see if 1st house has more number of Natural Krura planets

> > like

> > > > Mars, Saturn Rahu Sun etc.

> > > > If Lagna has them and 6th lord is either Shubha graha or 6th

> lord

> > is

> > > > weak etc, or if 6th house is rendered powerless by

papakartari

> > yoga

> > > > etc , then the candidate signifying Lagna will win.

> > > >

> > > > 1st case,

> > > >

> > > > Lets take the case of REPUBLICAN NOMINATION CHART as

displayed

> in

> > the

> > > > above mentioned article, you will note that Lagna has Rahu

and

> > Moon

> > > > whereas 6th house is occupied by Guru which is rendered weak

> by

> > > > Papakartari yoga.This much is enough to indicate Democrat

> > candidate

> > > > will lose.Hence Bush won the election.

> > > >

> > > > 2nd case of 2001 election,

> > > >

> > > > 2000 TP chart clearly shows 6th house is more powerful than

> > > > ascendent . Saturn and Jupiter are in 6th and Lagna is having

> no

> > > > planets. Lagna lord is in 6th with Saturn. 6th lord venus is

> with

> > > > Sun, Mercury and Mars, thus Bush had an upper hand . So

> Democrats

> > > > were pushed out at the end from white house.

> > > >

> > > > 3rd case

> > > >

> > > > Take 1996 election.

> > > > Apply the rule and you will notice that Lagna has Mars and is

> > fully

> > > > aspected by Saturn from 11th house.

> > > > 6th lord Venus has surrendered in Lagna . 6th house has no

> > planets .

> > > > Sitting president Bill clinton won the re-election easily.

> > > >

> > > > Do one needs to prove this more?

> > > >

> > > > If Gurus have suggestions/corrections , please correct the

> > > > undersigned.

> > > >

> > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > >

> > > > > Dear astrologers,

> > > > >

> > > > > Could anybody share his view points as what is the wrong in

> the

> > > > > following prediction:

> > > > >

> > > > > http://parasara.blogspot.com/

> > > > >

> > > > > Really the approach of prediction in the above is new and

> very

> > > > > impressive.Please treat this for learning , not for any

> > criticisims.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Poolaat.

[Guest guest]

Dear Tatwam Asi ji

 

Kindly call me pradeep.

I am yet to read the mundane principles explained by

Varahamihira.Thus i may be wrong.

 

After your mail i did think again - house and home are

different ,hence family members at micro level form the praja at

home while the society forms the praja at macro level.In the second

case whole country becomes home. Thanks for the correction.

 

But Simhasana - Isnt it a special position among praja.Based on ones

Karma one may attain or retain that position.

 

In an individuals chart do we have a different consideration for

throne?

 

Another thing that i have noted from your previous mail was krura

planets in lagna.You are right that benefic planets cannot control

the Kaliyuga Manavas.Benefic planets may help in advising or

counselling or in other words spreading peace.This is the job of a

spiritual leader.

But when you are a ruler you are supposed to ensure it rather than

request.

 

But does that mean in Kaliyuga a benefic planet has to undergo a

role reversal.I am unable to follow it properly there is a role

conflict.

 

Thanks

Pradeep

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "nameisego" <nameisego>

wrote:

>

>

> Dear Pradeep ji,

>

> Self is no scholar. He is a student of Astrology like any one of

you.

>

> In a Mundane chart of a country,10H is Rajyasthana or

Karmasthana,

> the seat of governence.Simhasana etc.

>

> Lagna is the Karta/head,meaning King /President.

>

> 4th house may represent the house /palace etc but it also

signifies

> Praja.Karma sthana cannot be society.

> It is the 4th house that would make up praja.

>

> Sometimes we give too much importance to deeper meanings of

aroodha

> padas and various amsas from D1 to D60 and further on.

> In this process we start neglacting basic philosophy.

>

> Why not start with looking at astrology with a child's eye and

start

> adopting/using simpler approach first and then if we fail to

arrive

> at an answer, proceed further ?

>

> A PROBLEM IS AS COMPLICATED AS WE MAKE IT TO BE.

>

> Tatvam-Asi

>

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Tatwam asi ji

> >

> > I am no scholar to question the views expressed by scholars like

> you

> > and Shri Narashima Rao ji.

> > Kindly treat this as doubts.

> >

> > Pandit Sanjay Rath's words do reveal the humility and

flexibility

> > that every astrologer should strive for. Respect for him as

fixed

> > realms is no help towards the unfolding of any

knowledge.Knowledge

> > is dynamic and not static.

> >

> > Division three(drekkana) represnts Siblings.Thus 3 houses after

our

> > lagna represents our younger siblings as they are born later.

> > Similarly 3 houses prior to lagna(11th house) represent our

elder

> > siblings as they arrived earlier.

> >

> > Division 2 (Hora) represents wealth.Thus 2nd house represents the

> > resources we have in possession while 12th house( second prior

to

> > lagna), represent the resources which have been used up.

> >

> > Division 4 (chathuramsha) represents environment ,properties,

> > happiness(manasukha etc). Thus 4th house represents our home or

> > the environment which is closer to us, having relevance and

> relation

> > after our birth as far as we are concerned and providing the

said

> > happiness.

> >

> > 10th house represent 4 houses prior to our birth in other words

the

> > environment which has been existing before, providing happiness

at a

> > macro level or in other words the society.

> >

> > Karmas are evaluated in a relative fashion, ie our actions with

> > respect to other members of society.For the same reason 10th

house

> > is Karma sthana or the playing field for exercising ones actions.

> >

> > Thus my understanding takes 4th house as home or palace or

> > throne.Fourth lord represents the owner of it? Thus 4th house,

the

> > planets there and 4th lord will show the nature of throne and

kind

> of

> > throne.

> >

> > Thus I believe 10th house represents Karma sthana or

society.Kindly

> > correct me.

> >

> > Thanks & Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "nameisego"

> <nameisego>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Chi. Narasimha,

> > >

> > > Self would like to reply to your posting and Sri. Raman's also

> > > starting with a

> > > quote by Sri. Sanjay Rath.

> > >

> > >

> > > QUOTE......

> > >

> > > ""None of us has a perfect understanding of

> > > Jyotish and our tools are far from perfect. Some may

> > > be too proud to

> > > accept this, but this is the truth. We are all trying

> > > to improve

> > > constantly. I too have attempted many puzzles before,

> > > some

> > > successfully and some with failure and know the

> > > limitations very

> > > well. Let us show respect for someone for trying and

> > > improve

> > > collectively, rather than criticizing

> > > someone.".............. UNQUOTE

> > > Chi. Narasimha has also written almost same thing sometime

back.

> > >

> > >

> > > When self took up answering Mr. Poolaat's posting, it was with

a

> > view

> > > to read the charts posted by Pt. Rath from a different

> perspective.

> > > And that is what has been done. It is not an exercise to show

> > someone

> > > in bad light.

> > >

> > > Chi. Narasimha has given arguement that 10th house denotes

King.

> > > May be you have that understanding. But self thinks that 10th

> > house

> > > is KARMASTHANAM/RAJYASTHANAM and it denotes RAJYA and not Raja.

> > > 10H denotes karma and not Karta.

> > > King's praja must be seen from the 4th house.

> > >

> > > Karta/king is be seen from Lagna and lagnadhipati.

> > > Nature of King is to be seen from planets in Lagna.

> > > To run a kingdom, kruratva is very essential in Kaliyug.

> > > Hence presence of Krura Planets in Lagna shows more successful

> > king.

> > > When looking for result of an election, looking at 6th house

> > > is essential as 6H denotes Shatrus/Rivals.

> > >

> > > You may not agree with anything that is written by self

because

> > ways

> > > and means adopted by

> > > self are radically different with what you have been used to

> > seeing.

> > > You have rightly said that my observation of US annual charts

is

> > NOT

> > > LOGICAL AT ALL. !!

> > > Astrology by itself defies Logic to scientists and people at

> large.

> > >

> > > When a plan of a building is seen,

> > >

> > > An engineer has a different perspective,

> > > A robber has a different perspective,

> > > A terrorist has a different perspective.

> > > (One looks for strength and others looks for weakness in plan.)

> > >

> > > A Vastu shastri/Feng-shui practitioner has a different

> > > perspective .... and so on.

> > >

> > >

> > > Coming to your observation about Nation,

> > > 1st house denotes the Head of the nation,(Karta)

> > > 4th house denotes Nation

> > > and 10th house denotes Pentagon/ (In case of USA).

> > >

> > > If you have your ideas different from self, you are welcome to

> > have

> > > them.

> > > Same thing goes to Grahas and Houses arguement put forth by

you.

> > >

> > > Self treats TP chart/Prasna chart or any aroodha chart with

the

> > same

> > > yardstick

> > > and is getting contantly good result.

> > >

> > > Let us stick to our ways which might differ at many points.

> > > What is important is to find out easier method of

prognostication.

> > >

> > > Tatvam-Asi

> > >

> > >

> > > -- In vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

> > > <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > > > Namaste Sir,

> > > >

> > > > IMHO, your interpretation of US annual charts is not logical

at

> > > all. In natal/annual charts of individuals (e.g. competing

> > > politicians), 1st shows the native and 6th shows the rival.

That

> > is

> > > perfect. However, in the chart of the nation itself, the 1st

> house

> > > shows the entire nation and the 6th house shows the

> rivals/enemies

> > of

> > > the nation. Using the 1st and 6th for the rulers and the

> > opposition

> > > is not at all logical. A nation and its leader are different.

US

> > > annual chart belongs to the nation and not just to its leader.

> > > >

> > > > Application of 1st/6th criterion to the Republican

nomination

> > chart

> > > is fine. But, applying it to the annual charts of USA is not

> > logical.

> > > >

> > > > The criterion used by Sanjay ji (10th showing rulers and 3rd

> > > showing opposition) is quite logical in mundane astrology.

> > > >

> > > > However, I am not 100% sure if houses should be seen or if

> graha

> > > arudhas of those house lords would be more appropriate. The

10th

> > > house shows the overall administration experienced by the

nation.

> > The

> > > 10th lord shows the application of intelligence towards that

end.

> > > Always, houses are inanimate and house lords are animate.

House

> > lords

> > > show the animated life force (or engine) driving the matters

of a

> > > house. Arudhas of house lords show the tangible manifestation

of

> > the

> > > driving force, i.e. real people in flesh. If the 10th house in

an

> > > annual chart of a nation is bad, administration in a year is

> poor.

> > If

> > > the 10th lord is bad, the thinking and attitude of the

> > administration

> > > is poor. If the graha arudha of 10th lord is afflicted, it is

bad

> > for

> > > the ruler(s).

> > > >

> > > > Arudhas are always tangible things. Arudhas of houses are

> > tangible

> > > inanimate things (e.g. A5 can be an award). Arudhas of house

> lords

> > > are tangible animated things (i.e. persons).

> > > >

> > > > In any case, I must make one very basic point regarding the

> > > original question raised. With due respect to Sanjay ji and

> others

> > > involved in this discussion, I must point out the data used is

> > > extremely suspect. Do you honestly think that the USA chart

used

> > is

> > > correct? God knows. There are so many versions. Sanjay ji

himself

> > > earlier talked about a mundane chart becoming invalid after

144

> > years

> > > and used the 1920 chart (cast after 144 years from 1776) for

> > timing

> > > the Iraq war. God knows why he still uses the 1776 chart for

TP.

> > This

> > > whole approach he outlined in the article quoted is

interesting,

> > but

> > > there are too many questions regarding it.

> > > >

> > > > In general, it is wise to use data that we are confident of.

> > This

> > > includes natal charts of leaders, nomination acceptance

charts,

> > > lunar/solar new year charts and lunar/solar eclipse charts.

> > > Independence charts of nations are usually suspect. USA chart

is

> > the

> > > worst (i.e. most controversial) in that respect.

> > > >

> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr. Poolaat,

> > > > >

> > > > > Knowledge of self is very limited . But simple principles

> read

> > in

> > > > > simple manner give true picture.

> > > > >

> > > > > Only thing that self always considers in win/lose contests

or

> > > > > elections is,Take 1st house and 6th house as two

contestants.

> > > > > (7th house may be considered as opposition but it does not

> > apply

> > > in

> > > > > contests )

> > > > >

> > > > > One must take contestants as enemies.

> > > > > Hence take 6th lord as opposit of 1st lord.

> > > > > Now see if 1st house has more number of Natural Krura

planets

> > > like

> > > > > Mars, Saturn Rahu Sun etc.

> > > > > If Lagna has them and 6th lord is either Shubha graha or

6th

> > lord

> > > is

> > > > > weak etc, or if 6th house is rendered powerless by

> papakartari

> > > yoga

> > > > > etc , then the candidate signifying Lagna will win.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1st case,

> > > > >

> > > > > Lets take the case of REPUBLICAN NOMINATION CHART as

> displayed

> > in

> > > the

> > > > > above mentioned article, you will note that Lagna has Rahu

> and

> > > Moon

> > > > > whereas 6th house is occupied by Guru which is rendered

weak

> > by

> > > > > Papakartari yoga.This much is enough to indicate Democrat

> > > candidate

> > > > > will lose.Hence Bush won the election.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2nd case of 2001 election,

> > > > >

> > > > > 2000 TP chart clearly shows 6th house is more powerful

than

> > > > > ascendent . Saturn and Jupiter are in 6th and Lagna is

having

> > no

> > > > > planets. Lagna lord is in 6th with Saturn. 6th lord venus

is

> > with

> > > > > Sun, Mercury and Mars, thus Bush had an upper hand . So

> > Democrats

> > > > > were pushed out at the end from white house.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3rd case

> > > > >

> > > > > Take 1996 election.

> > > > > Apply the rule and you will notice that Lagna has Mars and

is

> > > fully

> > > > > aspected by Saturn from 11th house.

> > > > > 6th lord Venus has surrendered in Lagna . 6th house has no

> > > planets .

> > > > > Sitting president Bill clinton won the re-election easily.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do one needs to prove this more?

> > > > >

> > > > > If Gurus have suggestions/corrections , please correct the

> > > > > undersigned.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear astrologers,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Could anybody share his view points as what is the wrong

in

> > the

> > > > > > following prediction:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://parasara.blogspot.com/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Really the approach of prediction in the above is new

and

> > very

> > > > > > impressive.Please treat this for learning , not for any

> > > criticisims.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Poolaat.