DAVID, RAYMOND, all members, on nodes: replies from wilhelm/trivedi

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dear raymond, david, and all esteemed group members, i had emailed

ernst wilhelm and prash trivedi on the vedic sources for their books

on the nodes as karmix axis, and i would like to share their replies.

below is

1. the email i sent to wilhelm (trivedi recieved the same email,

but with a reference to his book title instead, of course)

2. trivedi's reply

3. wilhelm's reply

 

i would like to hear anyone's opinion on their replies.

kalidas

 

1.MY EMAIL:

 

hello,

i am a member of a large vedic astrology internet forum, and somehow

became part of an ongoing discussion on the validity of interpreting

the lunar nodes and their dispositors as karmic axis control points,

indicating the future direction of ones growth, etc.

 

i had analized charts given to the forum, at times interpreting the

nodes in such a manner, and then a western member of the forum

indicated that he believed such interpretations are westernized, and

not true vedic interpretations, and that seeing the nodes as

indicating what one has done before and what one should do in ones

current life are simply western interpretations, not vedic.

 

this led to a heated discussion, and we ended up refering to you and

others,as having written books on the subject. (I sparked this off

by quoting your book).

 

my questions are, now that i have had to start thinking more about

it,

1. what are the hindu authoritative works that act as the basis for

intrepreting the nodes as a karmic axis?

2. if there is in fact no vedic basis, then how did the medieval

western astrologers possibly come up with such a concept on their

own? who did they take it from?

3. does the basis for interpreting the nodes as a karmic axis come

instead from an oral tantric tradition from india?

4. basically, what hindu authority did you rely on for your chapter

on rahu/ketu in your book vault of the heavens?

5. since the western astrologers use the karmic axis too, do both

zodiacs show one's past/future growth/direction, just differently?

 

i hope this is not a burden on your time, and i and many others

would greatly appreciate your wisdom on the matter.

 

om namah shivaya,

 

kalidas

 

 

 

2. TRIVEDI'S REPLY:

 

hello kali das,

 

let me startoff by saying that i don't believe in

this western-eastern division. they have a

common source which is vedic.

 

 

1. what are the hindu authoritative works that act as the basis for

intrepreting the nodes as a karmic axis?

 

i did it based on my personal experience using my vedic genepool.

 

a lot of ancient vedic texts (especially astrological)

are not available today. even the ones that are available

now ( like parashara hora shastra) are not present in their entirity.

 

one has to rely on ones ancient genetic memory to

recover the knowledge.

 

2. if there is in fact no vedic basis, then how did the medieval

western astrologers possibly come up with such a concept on their

own? who

did they take it from?

 

the so called medieval western astrologers used a sidereal zodiac.

they had all the vedic knowledge transmitted through

the following route

 

Vedic - Baylonian - Egyptian - Greek - Roman

 

in fact lot of the knowledge which was known in

middle ages is secret now.

 

3. does the basis for interpreting the nodes as a karmic axis come

instead from an oral tantric tradition from india?

 

all the puranic stories point towards it in a

pretty straightforward manner.

 

everyone confronts their rahu-ketu axis.

even vishnu got his head severed off once for

paying off for the initial cutting of the

swarbhanus head.

 

there is a lot more to it on a galactic level relating

to seperation of gemini (antigalactic center) - sagittarius

( galactic center) as signs

but that would take a whole book in itself

to explain.

 

4. basically, what hindu authority did you rely on for your book

rahu/ketu experience?

 

i relied on puranas and my experience and intuition.

my brahminic genepool ( from sage bharadwaja's gotra)

has all the knowledge memory of the original astrological knowledge.

thats the only book one can rely on.

 

5. since the western astrologers use the karmic axis too, do both

zodiacs show one's past/future growth/direction, just differently?

 

western system has a wrong zodiac. it is a trick played on

them by their founders ( who knew better)so that they grope in the

dark.

 

om sri durgaye namah,

 

prash

 

 

3. WILHELM'S REPLY:

 

Dear Kali Das,

thank you for thinking of me with your questions. First of all,

medievil western astrologers did not use the nodes, nodes are a

recent import from Hindu astrologers. Even Brihat Jataka, which is

largely based on yavanajataka, does not mention the nodes, which is

quite surprising.

 

There is very little even in Brihat Parashara bout the nodes. In

BPHS he gives the most important things about the grahas first, he

starts with giving the self qualaties Sun as atman, Moon as Manas,

etc - Rahu and Ketu are not given a self quality though authors

after Parashara tried coming up with stuff which does not work, some

of which I had put in Vault of the Heavens which I no longer hold

true. T

 

Next BPHS gives the different aspects of the people of the kingdom,

SUn and Moon are the royal planets, Mars the general, etc. Here we

get that Rahu and Ketu are the army, so the most important thing

about Rahu and Ketu is that they are the army. SO we have to study

the army to arrive at what Rahu and Ketu are responsible. Ketu means

flag, and in all cultures a flag or some similiar standard always

marked the established territory, we can look at this as what was

most established in a person, which means it was most established in

past life. All the Grahas reveal the results of one's previous

Karmas, Ketu just shows where we have been the most established.

Even Rahu shows the results of our past karmas - what we have to do

as a result of our past karmas. Ketu, being the flag, is the army

that maintains the fort, protects the occupied territories, protects

the king, etc. Rahu rules the army that seeks to expand the kingdom

beyond its present boundaries, thus Rahu rules all things foriegn,

all new things, all unexperienced things, the way soldiers march

into a new territory not knowing what to expect.

 

As far as the western astrologers using the same technique with a

different zodiac, that is the big question, isn't it? Which zodiac

is correct? Modern hindu astrology and western astrology have the

same roots, ancient greek texts have some similiarities to some of

the sanskrit texts, though the sanksrit texts are so much more

profound and filled with much more information. BUt if we study

ancient texts in respect to the sidereal or tropical zodiac, there

is a lot of information that points out to the tropical zodiac being

the correct or that the old astrologers had no idea of precession.

Even Varahamihira in his panchasiddhantika states that Aries rasi

begins at the vernal equinox and reading his texts make one think he

did not know about precession. We see the same problem in the Srimad

Bhagavatam where it relates the signs of the zodiac to the tropics

but then relates the nakshatras to the tropics as well, so the

current version of the srimad Bhagavatam that we have was also

unaware of precession. Araybhatia also relates the zodiac signs to

the tropics. The more a person studies the ancient texts, the more

questions arise. The Hindus have definetely made several calculation

errors in the past 1500 years, some of which I point out in my

Muhurta book. THe most significant is that of the Sankrantis, which

according to the Surya SIddhanta are meant to be done tropically.

Sri Yuktesvar also pointed this mistake out over 100 years ago, the

astrologers of his day would not listen, but the Indian Government

adopted the tropical Sankrantis as correct in the 1950's but still

none of the astrologers follow it and still at this time all the

Hindus are celebrating the Sun begining its northern movement on

Jan. 14 not realizing that the Sun has been moving north since Dec

21 when the Sun was at 0 tropical capricorn. The correct zodiac is a

very unclear proposition and we should not be quick to judge the

western astrologer nor the western astrologer the Hindu astrologer.

 

Jai Rama,

Ernst