Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Dear Panditji Thanks for the clarification.I did not know the reason for 12 signs. I have only read about sign system being adopted from yavanas and indian system being having roots in nakshathras.Also the sign divison boundaries are imaginary. Your opinion will be appreciated. Thanks Pradeep vedic astrology, Panditji <navagraha@g...> wrote: > Namaste, > > I can answer why we have 12 rashis, ask yourself why we have 12 months > ? The reason ravi and chandra the two luminaries meet in the sky 12 > times in a year approximately while completing one roatation. > > ... > > > On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:33:38 -0000, vijayadas_pradeep > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > Dear Hari > > > > [Hari] I should point out that I referred to kalachakra dasa and not > > kalachakra, which is a separate topic by itself. > > I do not understand how after reading on kalachakra dasa, you became > > more worried about the rasi cakra and the progression of time. > > > > (Pradeep)In fact,though dasha was missing, I was referring to > > kalachakra dasha. For me the Rashi chakra is the main mandala and it > > is just one.Earth is just like a sand particle w.r to the rashi > > chakra. Irrespective of dasha systems - the fundamental divisions > > should have a common base. Thus navamshas should have a common link > > (if not same - If you understand what I mean by tattwa or belonging > > to a lord,it will be clear) - no matter- kalachakra or varga > > navamsha. The worry was, relating kalachAkra navamsha with varga > > navamsha. Relations are possible. But our understanding of varga > > navamshas have to be restructured - similar to shri Narasimhas > > opinion. > > > > > > [Hari] I agree with you here; even I am also stuck in some of the > > basics but my experience is to move on and read other chapters to > > gain a perspective. Usually the basics get resolved as I read more > > and more. > > > > (Pradeep) - It is not that i am not reading further. If i am > > revisiting this topic again and again, it means I am looking for a > > clarification and satisfactory answer. I just want to know how this > > is possible,when there is neither sanction nor astronomical > > possibility. Also as you have said, After Vimshottari, Kalachakra > > and Yogini are the dashas which can > > be used universally. > > > > [Hari] There are three cakras spoken of; the bha cakra which is the > > geo-centric zodiac, the Vishnu cakra or the tropical (sayana) zodiac > > and the Narayana cakra (nirayana or sidereal zodiac). In kalachakra > > dasa, there are two cakras spoken of: savya & apasavya cakras. > > > > (Pradeep)Hari you are bringing in something which is out of > > context.Precession of equinoxes and muddle of ayanamsha's have no > > relevance here. There is only one zodiac ,and starting point is your > > choice. > > > > Now for Kalachakra dasha too, there are no two zodiacs. Savya and > > Apasavya are for nakshathra's and refers to right and left. I cannot > > tell you more on this at the moment. But it is like this. Start from > > Ashwathi and count 3 stars on 3 fingers(2nd 3rd and 4th fingers) of > > your right hand and next three stars on 3 fingers of your left hand. > > Next three again on your right hand and so on. We will end up with > > 15 and 12 for right and left respectively.Again for right hand > > nakshathras (15) seperate the ones falling on 2 nd and 4th fingers > > as ashvathi group and middle finger ones as bharani > > group. Similarly there is a law for left hand nakshathras. How this > > comes is a question - it can be symbolically the fingers of Lord > > Shiva.I have to read more and I need time for this. > > > > [Hari] Has the sage defined the rasi cakra? I thought he said `after > > explaining about the rasi (which means rasisvarupadhayah or the > > properties of rasi (sign)). Please point me the shloka where he says > > this. > > > > (1)Right, the first division of the zodiac (can we call it as > > cakra?) is the division of 360 deg space into 12 signs of 30 degs > > each. But why is this 12 signs only? Why not divide into 8 or 14 > > signs instead? > > > > (2)Then from there, we don't again divide the zodiac further (this > > is the point which you seek to make) but instead divide the sign > > further.The question is why? > > > > (Pradeep) Chakra was inadvertently used. I can answer your point (1) > > only upon a condition. Condition is - you should not ask me why we > > have only 12 signs? I will be helpless. Now if we agree about 12 > > signs - where will the sage go to get extra 2 > > signs(when 14) for making you happy? Or what will the sage do with > > the 4 remaining signs(when 8) - again to make you happy. > > Thus within the zodiac ,which is 360 degrees, if you have 12 signs > > one sign has to be 30 degrees. After defining such rashi's (together > > constituting the zodiac), sage explained divisions of such > > individual rashis - and named them as vargas. Each rashi becomes a > > bhava and such bhavas lords fall in vargas. As Lagna too is having a > > sphuta it too will fall in different vargas. > > > > As you have said, I have been explaining this umpteen times. But > > still everyone is coming with the same question again & again. > > > > Thanks for the Guru advise. I am not ready yet. > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, Hari M <onlyhari> wrote: > > > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah|| > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > Thanks for mentioning Kalachakra. I am infact reading > > > on Kalachakra at the moment.To be honest,after that, I > > > feel more worried about Rashi chakra and progression > > > of time. Also it is not that I am not reading other > > > books. I am stressing more on Shri Narasimhas point > > > (regarding amsha definitions), because of kalachakra. > > > > > > [Hari] I should point out that I referred to > > > kalachakra dasa and not kalachakra, which is a > > > separate topic by itself. I do not understand how > > > after reading on kalachakra dasa, you became more > > > worried about the rasi cakra and the progression of > > > time. > > > > > > It is not at all a waste of time or getting stuck on a > > > topic. Without understanding the basics we cannot > > > build anything. If one is happy with 10 succesul > > > predictions then one can ignore basics. > > > > > > [Hari] I agree with you here; even I am also stuck in > > > some of the basics but my experience is to move on and > > > read other chapters to gain a perspective. Usually the > > > basics get resolved as I read more and more. I am not > > > sure about the last line of above para as it is my > > > contention that to predict correctly & consistently, > > > one needs to have understood the basics properly. > > > > > > Kalachakra has to be read carefully and it will take > > > time to understand.It should tell us how or in what > > > order, with the progression of time, rashis of rashi > > > chakra will influence us. In another view itcan be a > > > progression of time along rashi chakra. There are no > > > different zodiacs or rashi chakras. It is the various > > > movements of kaala that makes us think of different > > > zodiacs. > > > > > > [Hari] There are three cakras spoken of; the bha cakra > > > which is the geo-centric zodiac, the Vishnu cakra or > > > the tropical (sayana) zodiac and the Narayana cakra > > > (nirayana or sidereal zodiac). In kalachakra dasa, > > > there are two cakras spoken of: savya & apasavya > > > cakras. You are right in the sense that kalachakra > > > dasa is not an easy topic and requires much time > > > (maybe years) to make sense of it. But Parasara gave > > > it a lot of respect. I wont go into the rest of the > > > details that you raised about kalacakra dasa in the > > > following paragraphs (deleted here) but hopefully > > > revisit it at some point of time later. > > > > > > > > > Now under all these circumstances, we are finding > > > divisional lords within a sign. For example Hora - > > > Though the full sign is lorded by a planet, the horas > > > within that sign are lorded by sun and moon > > > respectively. Similarly individual signs are again > > > divided and allotted to different planets. > > > > > > Your query regarding rashi being the first divisional > > > : We have to understand it differently. One is the > > > zodiac with 12 signs. Next is the division of each of > > > those signs. In the second case you are dividing > > > individual rashis and in the first case it is an > > > 'imaginary > > > division' of rashi chakra. > > > > > > After defining the Rashi chakra, Sage clearly says > > > ''now I will explain the various divisions of a > > > rashi''. Thus please do not misunderstand the natural > > > sign divisions with divisions of a rashi. Now the > > > first division is the full 30 degree itself and is > > > called > > > Kshethra/Rashi lorded by a planet. Then we again > > > divide that sign into two to get Hora, ruled by sun > > > and moon. Again we divide it into 3 for drekkana > > > lorded by planets falling under 1,5,9 rule. Etc etc. > > > > > > [Hari] Has the sage defined the rasi cakra? I thought > > > he said `after explaining about the rasi (which means > > > rasisvarupadhayah or the properties of rasi (sign)). > > > Please point me the shloka where he says this. > > > > > > (1)Right, the first division of the zodiac (can we > > > call it as cakra?) is the division of 360 deg space > > > into 12 signs of 30 degs each. But why is this 12 > > > signs only? Why not divide into 8 or 14 signs instead? > > > > > > (2)Then from there, we don't again divide the zodiac > > > further (this is the point which you seek to make) but > > > instead divide the sign further. The question is why? > > > > > > Regarding Guru :I have people in my mind at Gurusthana > > > while I am learning.Now if it is regarding Mantra - I > > > am not ready yet.There is a time for everything and it > > > will come.For example my wife got her > > > Guru(Aatmeeya) and Mantra(whispered on her ears) very > > > early. > > > > > > [Hari] I hope you get a Guru worthy of you. It is a > > > great blessing to have a diksha Guru. I did not mean > > > for mantra but for learning in general. > > > > > > Regards > > > Hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Links > > > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Namaste, Yes, I have heard that too and may be it is how it was. But later 12 signs were adopted based on where the full moon will occur. Chaitra for full moon in Chitra etc. and the exact conjunction points were given sign names .... On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:24:05 -0000, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Panditji > > Thanks for the clarification.I did not know the reason for 12 signs. > I have only read about sign system being adopted from yavanas and > indian system being having roots in nakshathras.Also the sign divison > boundaries are imaginary. > > Your opinion will be appreciated. > > Thanks > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, Panditji <navagraha@g...> wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > I can answer why we have 12 rashis, ask yourself why we have 12 months > > ? The reason ravi and chandra the two luminaries meet in the sky 12 > > times in a year approximately while completing one roatation. > > > > ... > > > > > > On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:33:38 -0000, vijayadas_pradeep > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Hari > > > > > > [Hari] I should point out that I referred to kalachakra dasa and not > > > kalachakra, which is a separate topic by itself. > > > I do not understand how after reading on kalachakra dasa, you became > > > more worried about the rasi cakra and the progression of time. > > > > > > (Pradeep)In fact,though dasha was missing, I was referring to > > > kalachakra dasha. For me the Rashi chakra is the main mandala and it > > > is just one.Earth is just like a sand particle w.r to the rashi > > > chakra. Irrespective of dasha systems - the fundamental divisions > > > should have a common base. Thus navamshas should have a common link > > > (if not same - If you understand what I mean by tattwa or belonging > > > to a lord,it will be clear) - no matter- kalachakra or varga > > > navamsha. The worry was, relating kalachAkra navamsha with varga > > > navamsha. Relations are possible. But our understanding of varga > > > navamshas have to be restructured - similar to shri Narasimhas > > > opinion. > > > > > > > > > [Hari] I agree with you here; even I am also stuck in some of the > > > basics but my experience is to move on and read other chapters to > > > gain a perspective. Usually the basics get resolved as I read more > > > and more. > > > > > > (Pradeep) - It is not that i am not reading further. If i am > > > revisiting this topic again and again, it means I am looking for a > > > clarification and satisfactory answer. I just want to know how this > > > is possible,when there is neither sanction nor astronomical > > > possibility. Also as you have said, After Vimshottari, Kalachakra > > > and Yogini are the dashas which can > > > be used universally. > > > > > > [Hari] There are three cakras spoken of; the bha cakra which is the > > > geo-centric zodiac, the Vishnu cakra or the tropical (sayana) zodiac > > > and the Narayana cakra (nirayana or sidereal zodiac). In kalachakra > > > dasa, there are two cakras spoken of: savya & apasavya cakras. > > > > > > (Pradeep)Hari you are bringing in something which is out of > > > context.Precession of equinoxes and muddle of ayanamsha's have no > > > relevance here. There is only one zodiac ,and starting point is your > > > choice. > > > > > > Now for Kalachakra dasha too, there are no two zodiacs. Savya and > > > Apasavya are for nakshathra's and refers to right and left. I cannot > > > tell you more on this at the moment. But it is like this. Start from > > > Ashwathi and count 3 stars on 3 fingers(2nd 3rd and 4th fingers) of > > > your right hand and next three stars on 3 fingers of your left hand. > > > Next three again on your right hand and so on. We will end up with > > > 15 and 12 for right and left respectively.Again for right hand > > > nakshathras (15) seperate the ones falling on 2 nd and 4th fingers > > > as ashvathi group and middle finger ones as bharani > > > group. Similarly there is a law for left hand nakshathras. How this > > > comes is a question - it can be symbolically the fingers of Lord > > > Shiva.I have to read more and I need time for this. > > > > > > [Hari] Has the sage defined the rasi cakra? I thought he said `after > > > explaining about the rasi (which means rasisvarupadhayah or the > > > properties of rasi (sign)). Please point me the shloka where he says > > > this. > > > > > > (1)Right, the first division of the zodiac (can we call it as > > > cakra?) is the division of 360 deg space into 12 signs of 30 degs > > > each. But why is this 12 signs only? Why not divide into 8 or 14 > > > signs instead? > > > > > > (2)Then from there, we don't again divide the zodiac further (this > > > is the point which you seek to make) but instead divide the sign > > > further.The question is why? > > > > > > (Pradeep) Chakra was inadvertently used. I can answer your point (1) > > > only upon a condition. Condition is - you should not ask me why we > > > have only 12 signs? I will be helpless. Now if we agree about 12 > > > signs - where will the sage go to get extra 2 > > > signs(when 14) for making you happy? Or what will the sage do with > > > the 4 remaining signs(when 8) - again to make you happy. > > > Thus within the zodiac ,which is 360 degrees, if you have 12 signs > > > one sign has to be 30 degrees. After defining such rashi's (together > > > constituting the zodiac), sage explained divisions of such > > > individual rashis - and named them as vargas. Each rashi becomes a > > > bhava and such bhavas lords fall in vargas. As Lagna too is having a > > > sphuta it too will fall in different vargas. > > > > > > As you have said, I have been explaining this umpteen times. But > > > still everyone is coming with the same question again & again. > > > > > > Thanks for the Guru advise. I am not ready yet. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Pradeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, Hari M <onlyhari> wrote: > > > > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah|| > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > Thanks for mentioning Kalachakra. I am infact reading > > > > on Kalachakra at the moment.To be honest,after that, I > > > > feel more worried about Rashi chakra and progression > > > > of time. Also it is not that I am not reading other > > > > books. I am stressing more on Shri Narasimhas point > > > > (regarding amsha definitions), because of kalachakra. > > > > > > > > [Hari] I should point out that I referred to > > > > kalachakra dasa and not kalachakra, which is a > > > > separate topic by itself. I do not understand how > > > > after reading on kalachakra dasa, you became more > > > > worried about the rasi cakra and the progression of > > > > time. > > > > > > > > It is not at all a waste of time or getting stuck on a > > > > topic. Without understanding the basics we cannot > > > > build anything. If one is happy with 10 succesul > > > > predictions then one can ignore basics. > > > > > > > > [Hari] I agree with you here; even I am also stuck in > > > > some of the basics but my experience is to move on and > > > > read other chapters to gain a perspective. Usually the > > > > basics get resolved as I read more and more. I am not > > > > sure about the last line of above para as it is my > > > > contention that to predict correctly & consistently, > > > > one needs to have understood the basics properly. > > > > > > > > Kalachakra has to be read carefully and it will take > > > > time to understand.It should tell us how or in what > > > > order, with the progression of time, rashis of rashi > > > > chakra will influence us. In another view itcan be a > > > > progression of time along rashi chakra. There are no > > > > different zodiacs or rashi chakras. It is the various > > > > movements of kaala that makes us think of different > > > > zodiacs. > > > > > > > > [Hari] There are three cakras spoken of; the bha cakra > > > > which is the geo-centric zodiac, the Vishnu cakra or > > > > the tropical (sayana) zodiac and the Narayana cakra > > > > (nirayana or sidereal zodiac). In kalachakra dasa, > > > > there are two cakras spoken of: savya & apasavya > > > > cakras. You are right in the sense that kalachakra > > > > dasa is not an easy topic and requires much time > > > > (maybe years) to make sense of it. But Parasara gave > > > > it a lot of respect. I wont go into the rest of the > > > > details that you raised about kalacakra dasa in the > > > > following paragraphs (deleted here) but hopefully > > > > revisit it at some point of time later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now under all these circumstances, we are finding > > > > divisional lords within a sign. For example Hora - > > > > Though the full sign is lorded by a planet, the horas > > > > within that sign are lorded by sun and moon > > > > respectively. Similarly individual signs are again > > > > divided and allotted to different planets. > > > > > > > > Your query regarding rashi being the first divisional > > > > : We have to understand it differently. One is the > > > > zodiac with 12 signs. Next is the division of each of > > > > those signs. In the second case you are dividing > > > > individual rashis and in the first case it is an > > > > 'imaginary > > > > division' of rashi chakra. > > > > > > > > After defining the Rashi chakra, Sage clearly says > > > > ''now I will explain the various divisions of a > > > > rashi''. Thus please do not misunderstand the natural > > > > sign divisions with divisions of a rashi. Now the > > > > first division is the full 30 degree itself and is > > > > called > > > > Kshethra/Rashi lorded by a planet. Then we again > > > > divide that sign into two to get Hora, ruled by sun > > > > and moon. Again we divide it into 3 for drekkana > > > > lorded by planets falling under 1,5,9 rule. Etc etc. > > > > > > > > [Hari] Has the sage defined the rasi cakra? I thought > > > > he said `after explaining about the rasi (which means > > > > rasisvarupadhayah or the properties of rasi (sign)). > > > > Please point me the shloka where he says this. > > > > > > > > (1)Right, the first division of the zodiac (can we > > > > call it as cakra?) is the division of 360 deg space > > > > into 12 signs of 30 degs each. But why is this 12 > > > > signs only? Why not divide into 8 or 14 signs instead? > > > > > > > > (2)Then from there, we don't again divide the zodiac > > > > further (this is the point which you seek to make) but > > > > instead divide the sign further. The question is why? > > > > > > > > Regarding Guru :I have people in my mind at Gurusthana > > > > while I am learning.Now if it is regarding Mantra - I > > > > am not ready yet.There is a time for everything and it > > > > will come.For example my wife got her > > > > Guru(Aatmeeya) and Mantra(whispered on her ears) very > > > > early. > > > > > > > > [Hari] I hope you get a Guru worthy of you. It is a > > > > great blessing to have a diksha Guru. I did not mean > > > > for mantra but for learning in general. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > Sponsor > > > ________________________________ > Links > > > vedic astrology/ > > > vedic astrology > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Dear Panditji Thanks for clearing them again. Regds Pradeep vedic astrology, Panditji <navagraha@g...> wrote: > Namaste, > > Yes, I have heard that too and may be it is how it was. But later 12 > signs were adopted based on where the full moon will occur. Chaitra > for full moon in Chitra etc. and the exact conjunction points were > given sign names > > ... > > > On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:24:05 -0000, vijayadas_pradeep > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > Dear Panditji > > > > Thanks for the clarification.I did not know the reason for 12 signs. > > I have only read about sign system being adopted from yavanas and > > indian system being having roots in nakshathras.Also the sign divison > > boundaries are imaginary. > > > > Your opinion will be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, Panditji <navagraha@g...> wrote: > > > Namaste, > > > > > > I can answer why we have 12 rashis, ask yourself why we have 12 months > > > ? The reason ravi and chandra the two luminaries meet in the sky 12 > > > times in a year approximately while completing one roatation. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:33:38 -0000, vijayadas_pradeep > > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Hari > > > > > > > > [Hari] I should point out that I referred to kalachakra dasa and not > > > > kalachakra, which is a separate topic by itself. > > > > I do not understand how after reading on kalachakra dasa, you became > > > > more worried about the rasi cakra and the progression of time. > > > > > > > > (Pradeep)In fact,though dasha was missing, I was referring to > > > > kalachakra dasha. For me the Rashi chakra is the main mandala and it > > > > is just one.Earth is just like a sand particle w.r to the rashi > > > > chakra. Irrespective of dasha systems - the fundamental divisions > > > > should have a common base. Thus navamshas should have a common link > > > > (if not same - If you understand what I mean by tattwa or belonging > > > > to a lord,it will be clear) - no matter- kalachakra or varga > > > > navamsha. The worry was, relating kalachAkra navamsha with varga > > > > navamsha. Relations are possible. But our understanding of varga > > > > navamshas have to be restructured - similar to shri Narasimhas > > > > opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Hari] I agree with you here; even I am also stuck in some of the > > > > basics but my experience is to move on and read other chapters to > > > > gain a perspective. Usually the basics get resolved as I read more > > > > and more. > > > > > > > > (Pradeep) - It is not that i am not reading further. If i am > > > > revisiting this topic again and again, it means I am looking for a > > > > clarification and satisfactory answer. I just want to know how this > > > > is possible,when there is neither sanction nor astronomical > > > > possibility. Also as you have said, After Vimshottari, Kalachakra > > > > and Yogini are the dashas which can > > > > be used universally. > > > > > > > > [Hari] There are three cakras spoken of; the bha cakra which is the > > > > geo-centric zodiac, the Vishnu cakra or the tropical (sayana) zodiac > > > > and the Narayana cakra (nirayana or sidereal zodiac). In kalachakra > > > > dasa, there are two cakras spoken of: savya & apasavya cakras. > > > > > > > > (Pradeep)Hari you are bringing in something which is out of > > > > context.Precession of equinoxes and muddle of ayanamsha's have no > > > > relevance here. There is only one zodiac ,and starting point is your > > > > choice. > > > > > > > > Now for Kalachakra dasha too, there are no two zodiacs. Savya and > > > > Apasavya are for nakshathra's and refers to right and left. I cannot > > > > tell you more on this at the moment. But it is like this. Start from > > > > Ashwathi and count 3 stars on 3 fingers(2nd 3rd and 4th fingers) of > > > > your right hand and next three stars on 3 fingers of your left hand. > > > > Next three again on your right hand and so on. We will end up with > > > > 15 and 12 for right and left respectively.Again for right hand > > > > nakshathras (15) seperate the ones falling on 2 nd and 4th fingers > > > > as ashvathi group and middle finger ones as bharani > > > > group. Similarly there is a law for left hand nakshathras. How this > > > > comes is a question - it can be symbolically the fingers of Lord > > > > Shiva.I have to read more and I need time for this. > > > > > > > > [Hari] Has the sage defined the rasi cakra? I thought he said `after > > > > explaining about the rasi (which means rasisvarupadhayah or the > > > > properties of rasi (sign)). Please point me the shloka where he says > > > > this. > > > > > > > > (1)Right, the first division of the zodiac (can we call it as > > > > cakra?) is the division of 360 deg space into 12 signs of 30 degs > > > > each. But why is this 12 signs only? Why not divide into 8 or 14 > > > > signs instead? > > > > > > > > (2)Then from there, we don't again divide the zodiac further (this > > > > is the point which you seek to make) but instead divide the sign > > > > further.The question is why? > > > > > > > > (Pradeep) Chakra was inadvertently used. I can answer your point (1) > > > > only upon a condition. Condition is - you should not ask me why we > > > > have only 12 signs? I will be helpless. Now if we agree about 12 > > > > signs - where will the sage go to get extra 2 > > > > signs(when 14) for making you happy? Or what will the sage do with > > > > the 4 remaining signs(when 8) - again to make you happy. > > > > Thus within the zodiac ,which is 360 degrees, if you have 12 signs > > > > one sign has to be 30 degrees. After defining such rashi's (together > > > > constituting the zodiac), sage explained divisions of such > > > > individual rashis - and named them as vargas. Each rashi becomes a > > > > bhava and such bhavas lords fall in vargas. As Lagna too is having a > > > > sphuta it too will fall in different vargas. > > > > > > > > As you have said, I have been explaining this umpteen times. But > > > > still everyone is coming with the same question again & again. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the Guru advise. I am not ready yet. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Hari M <onlyhari> wrote: > > > > > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah|| > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for mentioning Kalachakra. I am infact reading > > > > > on Kalachakra at the moment.To be honest,after that, I > > > > > feel more worried about Rashi chakra and progression > > > > > of time. Also it is not that I am not reading other > > > > > books. I am stressing more on Shri Narasimhas point > > > > > (regarding amsha definitions), because of kalachakra. > > > > > > > > > > [Hari] I should point out that I referred to > > > > > kalachakra dasa and not kalachakra, which is a > > > > > separate topic by itself. I do not understand how > > > > > after reading on kalachakra dasa, you became more > > > > > worried about the rasi cakra and the progression of > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > It is not at all a waste of time or getting stuck on a > > > > > topic. Without understanding the basics we cannot > > > > > build anything. If one is happy with 10 succesul > > > > > predictions then one can ignore basics. > > > > > > > > > > [Hari] I agree with you here; even I am also stuck in > > > > > some of the basics but my experience is to move on and > > > > > read other chapters to gain a perspective. Usually the > > > > > basics get resolved as I read more and more. I am not > > > > > sure about the last line of above para as it is my > > > > > contention that to predict correctly & consistently, > > > > > one needs to have understood the basics properly. > > > > > > > > > > Kalachakra has to be read carefully and it will take > > > > > time to understand.It should tell us how or in what > > > > > order, with the progression of time, rashis of rashi > > > > > chakra will influence us. In another view itcan be a > > > > > progression of time along rashi chakra. There are no > > > > > different zodiacs or rashi chakras. It is the various > > > > > movements of kaala that makes us think of different > > > > > zodiacs. > > > > > > > > > > [Hari] There are three cakras spoken of; the bha cakra > > > > > which is the geo-centric zodiac, the Vishnu cakra or > > > > > the tropical (sayana) zodiac and the Narayana cakra > > > > > (nirayana or sidereal zodiac). In kalachakra dasa, > > > > > there are two cakras spoken of: savya & apasavya > > > > > cakras. You are right in the sense that kalachakra > > > > > dasa is not an easy topic and requires much time > > > > > (maybe years) to make sense of it. But Parasara gave > > > > > it a lot of respect. I wont go into the rest of the > > > > > details that you raised about kalacakra dasa in the > > > > > following paragraphs (deleted here) but hopefully > > > > > revisit it at some point of time later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now under all these circumstances, we are finding > > > > > divisional lords within a sign. For example Hora - > > > > > Though the full sign is lorded by a planet, the horas > > > > > within that sign are lorded by sun and moon > > > > > respectively. Similarly individual signs are again > > > > > divided and allotted to different planets. > > > > > > > > > > Your query regarding rashi being the first divisional > > > > > : We have to understand it differently. One is the > > > > > zodiac with 12 signs. Next is the division of each of > > > > > those signs. In the second case you are dividing > > > > > individual rashis and in the first case it is an > > > > > 'imaginary > > > > > division' of rashi chakra. > > > > > > > > > > After defining the Rashi chakra, Sage clearly says > > > > > ''now I will explain the various divisions of a > > > > > rashi''. Thus please do not misunderstand the natural > > > > > sign divisions with divisions of a rashi. Now the > > > > > first division is the full 30 degree itself and is > > > > > called > > > > > Kshethra/Rashi lorded by a planet. Then we again > > > > > divide that sign into two to get Hora, ruled by sun > > > > > and moon. Again we divide it into 3 for drekkana > > > > > lorded by planets falling under 1,5,9 rule. Etc etc. > > > > > > > > > > [Hari] Has the sage defined the rasi cakra? I thought > > > > > he said `after explaining about the rasi (which means > > > > > rasisvarupadhayah or the properties of rasi (sign)). > > > > > Please point me the shloka where he says this. > > > > > > > > > > (1)Right, the first division of the zodiac (can we > > > > > call it as cakra?) is the division of 360 deg space > > > > > into 12 signs of 30 degs each. But why is this 12 > > > > > signs only? Why not divide into 8 or 14 signs instead? > > > > > > > > > > (2)Then from there, we don't again divide the zodiac > > > > > further (this is the point which you seek to make) but > > > > > instead divide the sign further. The question is why? > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Guru :I have people in my mind at Gurusthana > > > > > while I am learning.Now if it is regarding Mantra - I > > > > > am not ready yet.There is a time for everything and it > > > > > will come.For example my wife got her > > > > > Guru(Aatmeeya) and Mantra(whispered on her ears) very > > > > > early. > > > > > > > > > > [Hari] I hope you get a Guru worthy of you. It is a > > > > > great blessing to have a diksha Guru. I did not mean > > > > > for mantra but for learning in general. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Links > > > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Terms of Service. 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