Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Dear BhagavathAs, as for as adiyen, considering the question of Ms. Jyothsna on our Sitr pirAtiyArs' capability: " why did not Seetha kill Ravana for the deed he did? Is she not as powerful as Satyabhama? Or is she also afraid to face Ravana? What are the reasons why she could not save herself and reach her Lord feet Shri Ramachandra*? " Here sitA pirAtiyAr, is the extreme in showing kArunyam towards jeevAthma. Even when Rama dhoothan Anjaneyan curses the arakikal who were the gaurds to SitA pirAttiyAr at ashOka vanam, our beloved mother SitA pirAttiyAr, interrupts Anjaneyar and says "Oh AnjaneyA, please dont curse these pitiable persons. They are only doing their duty on behalf of Ravana. They are doing this only to show that they are slaves to Ravana ( As like Kumbhakarna). Actually they dont have any intention and they aren't responsible for any happenings!". Second thing to note is that, even when Ravana often comes and visits the ashOka vanam to see pirAttiyAr, our mother SitA pirAttiyAr was pitty on Ravana and says that, " If YOU DONT WANT TO GET VANISHED BY the great purushottaman, who is the RESCUER to all those WHO SURRENDERS AT HIS LOTUS FEET, hand over me immediately to HIM! Otherwise IT IS SURE THAT, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED WELL BY HIM !!. This too I AM SAYING TO YOU ATLEAST TO SAVE you from the pApam that you have DONE by separating me from HIM, WITHOUT KNOWING THE FUTURE CONSEQUENCE !!! " Here SitA pirAttiyAr knows that due to kAmA, Ravana lost his Jnanam which is the unique quality of JeevAthmA, and so advices Ravana and remembers him about what the mistake he has done to them (divya thampathis). Also pirAttiyAr says that " It's the duty of HIM to rescue me from Ravana, and surely HE will do that by punishing Ravana which adds quality to HIS characters, and one of HIS kalyAna gunam (Raavananidamirunthu ennai meetpathe avarukku ugantha seiyal; athuvE avarukku thagum) " when Anjaneyar presents kanaiyaazhi to pirAttiyAr. Also, she intimates that " Say to HIM that I am waiting for HIS act of rescuing me from Ravana". This clearly shows that she is only waiting for RAMA for the act of rescue. She dont want herself to use the power and rescue herself from Ravana, which wont brings fame to her pathi Rama. ALso if one attempts to rescue themselves, it wont be fruitfull and may ends up in tragedy. How? Infact here in this, there is *one sootsumam inferred behind this drama of divya dhampathis! * Consider Rama as paramAthmA, pirAttiyAr as JeevAthmA, Anjaneyar as Guru --- This is one team ! Ravana with 10 heads as igaparasugangal that you can get from this earthly world, which will always try to pull up our desires, mind and spoils us in all ways. This has the bad quality of growing like any as the growth of heads of Ravana. NO-STOP! -- THe second team (Raavana and his associates) !! Now the war is with both the teams. Here the JeevAthma loses its Jananam and fell into the trap of kAmA as like pirAttiyAr insists that she want to have that golden deer, even when the Lord is nearer to HER! This is like even enjoying by accompanying with paramAthmA, the jeevAthma has some desire. So the lord leaves the jeevAthma alone to fulfill it's desire by giving birth into this world as some living being. When the Lord left Her(JeevAthma) alone, now the worldly things will take over the JeevAthmA, as did by the Ravana taking pirAttiyAr as refuge. Once caught up into the trap of the samsAric ocean, now its the jeevAthmA through its jnAnam should not fall into this worldly things as did by our pirAttiyAr by not paying any attention towards Ravana, eventhough Ravana is the King and parakiramasALi, and should wait for paramAthmA to rescue from these deadly samsAric ocean. For rescueing the jeevathmA from this samsAric ocean, GURU has to be there, who is creating a LINK between the PARAMATHMA and JEEVATHMA. Without the GURU, jeevAthma cannot attain salvation or moksham or reaching paramathma (this is the key point in Vaishnavam). Here enters, our GURU Anjaneyar. This is point where the Lord Rama suffers without the presence of our pirAttiyAr, and the same case with pirAttiyAr also. She also suffers lot without the presence of HIM! THIS IS THE SAME WITH JEEVATHMAA(us) also. HE is waiting for, to rescue us from samsAric ocean and the jeevAthmA also suffers lot without the paramAthmA. Our AacharyAs(GURU), bringing us close to the paramAthmA. Coming to the point again, now as GURU, ANjaneyar enters and makes both paramAthmA (Lord Raama) and pirAttiyAr (jeevAthmA) feels happy. With the information from ANjanEyar (GURU), Rama (paramAthmA) moves to rescue pirAttiyAr (jeevAthmA) from Raavana (samsAric ocean and other deadlier things). Finally, Raama conquers and wins in retrieving pirAttiyAr from Raavana. This is like, the jeevAthmA finally attains moksham by paramAthmA( as HE is upAyam and upEyam for prapatti) through the help of guru (our AachAryAs!) Here the pirAttiyAr shows us how to perform prapatti and only with the help of HIM we can be rescued from the eveil things. By self- protecting ourselves wont yield good results which may end up in tragedy as like Raavana wants to protect himself finally in the war from Raama ("Indru poi naalai vaa") even after the apachAram done by him. Hence its the duty of Raama to rescue SitA pirAttiyAr from Raavana. This was well shown indirectly by our divya dhampathis during this RaamavathAram. Hence its not good for our pirAttiyAr (and not the duty also) to kill Raavana, NOR she is afraid, NOR she is uncapable. This is NOT THE GOOD PLACE where she can show HER power or capability!!@#@ This only shows HER kArunyam towards HER child. THis only shows how one (jeevAthma) should surrender at the feet of Lord, till HE comes and rescue from this samsAric ocean.!!!! (Adiyen hopes, adiyen didnt made any mistakes. If theres any, please forgive adiyens writings, and suggest if theres any correction!!!) ShrImathE RAmAnujAya namaha: adiyen: senthil.b Oppiliappan, "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv wrote: > > Post 1 > Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, > > Even though Ms.Jyothsna asked this question in 2005, I still have this fresh in my memory and when I get a 'new point' on seethaa's capability in srimadh raamaayaNam, I shared with all of you. I wrote a 5 part series first time titled 'is she not capable', a 4 part series second time as a continuation to the first series. Now I begin the third part and let us see how many parts it takes to conclude. So that part slokam "seethaayaas charitham mahath" is really very great and more apt. > > Just to recollect the question. Quote from part 1 of the first series - Quote - Ms. Jyothsna asked this beautiful question in raamabhakthi list. > RaamaBhakthi on behalf of jyothsna lakshmi [jyothsna_music] > Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:07 PM > raamabhakthi > [RaamaBhakthi] question > Jai shri Ram, Dear learned members.... while i was going through sundarakanda i had a doubt' why did not Seetha kill Ravana for the deed he did? Is she not as powerful as Satyabhama? Or is she also afraid to face Ravana? What are the reasons why she could not save herself and reach her Lord feet Shri Ramachandra*? Regards Jyothsna - unquote. > > Let us see the Sreemadh raamaayaNam incident of "raama observed a fast on the shores of ocean on the opposite side of lanka. He wanted the ocean to allow his team of vaanaraas led by his friend and king sugreeva and himself, to cross over to lanka to win back seetha, the beloved wife of raama. Even after three days the ocean king - the samudhra raajan - did not turn up. Raama was angry and asked lakshmaNa to bring the bow and arrows, so that he will shoot arrows, which will dry up the ocean and leave all the ocean born creatures dead, thereby making it safe for the vaanaraas to crossover to lanka on the ocean bed easily. When lakshmaNa did as directed by the elder, raama shot an arrow into the ocean. Before raama could shoot the second arrow to dry up the ocean, the ocean king appeared accompanied by ganga and sindhu his two wives [among many the important or main ones]". > > Now let us see a set of slOkams from Srimadh raamaayaNam - > > gangaa sindhu pradhaanaabhi aapagaabhi: samaavrutha: | > dhEvathaanaam saroopaabhi: naanaa roopaabhi: eesvara: || 6-22-23 > > saagara: samathikramya poorvam aamanthraya veeryavaan | > abraveeth praanjalir vaakyam raaghavam sara paaNinam || 6-22-24 > [as already written 6 is yudhdha kaaNdam 22 is sargam and 23, 24 are slOkam numbers] > saagara: eesvara:= the ocean [who is] the lord of rivers > samaavrutha: = escorted > aapagaabhi: = by rivers > gangaa sindhu pradhaanaabhi: = mainly Ganga and Sindhu > saroopaabhi: = equal in form > dhevathaanaam = to deities > naanaa roopaabhi: = and endowed with diverse forms > samuprakramya = approached > raaghavam sarapaaNinam = Rama who stood with arrows in hand > aamanthraya = addressing as "Raama!' > praanjali: = with joined palms > poorvam = first > abraveeth = spoke > vaakyam = (the following) words > > meaning: The valiant ocean, the lord of rivers, escorted by rivers mainly the Ganga and Sindhu, endowed with diverse forms resembling various deities, approached Raama who stood with arrows in hand, addressing him first as 'Raama!' with joined palms, and spoke the following words: > > Point: Many a times, it is said the samudhra raajan did surrender to raama at the shores. There is also a krithi by sri aruNaachala kaviraayar in his raama naataka keerthanaigaL on this ocean king episode in raagam asaavEri - we enjoyed the krithi by way of an article in 3 parts earlier. > > "saraNam saraNam raghu raamaa nee ennai > thaRkaaththu aruL paranthaamaa [saraNam] > > virikadal vEndhaa un thiruvadi sErntha en > mEl enna apachaaram aaiyira namaskaaram [saraNam] > > maddi meen onROdu onRu mallaadi amar pooNum > vazhakku theerkkap pOnEn idhaRkO un manam kONum > ettum reNdum theriyaadha enakku iththanaiyO kaaNum > enna pizhai seidhaalum neeyE poRuththal vENum [saraNam] > > But the point here is the ocean king did not surrender but did 'anjali' only and after that started talking. This I pointed out earlier also and that is a variation from vaalmeeki. Similarly kamban also places that varuNan took asylum or surrendered saying "abayam nin abayam". > > Perhaps you may ask what is the relationship between is seethaa capable of killing raavaNa and ocean surrendering to raama or not. You may have to wait till next post. > > Dhasan > Vasudevan m.g. > > > > DISCLAIMER: > This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary.Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC DIVISION > ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click./_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> Oppiliappan/ <*> Oppiliappan <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 This reminds one of the krti by Thyagaraja ' Maajaanaki' where he says why seetha did not destroy Ravana even thiugh she was quite capable ' srinaayaka yasamu neeke galga seyaledha',that is she wanted to give the clory to Rama for killing Ravana, which was the idea expressed in Sundarakanda, though not in so many words as our worthy member has quoted. Saroja Ramanujam "B.Senthil kumar" <b_senthil2002 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear BhagavathAs, as for as adiyen, considering the question of Ms. Jyothsna on our Sitr pirAtiyArs' capability: " why did not Seetha kill Ravana for the deed he did? Is she not as powerful as Satyabhama? Or is she also afraid to face Ravana? What are the reasons why she could not save herself and reach her Lord feet Shri Ramachandra*? " Here sitA pirAtiyAr, is the extreme in showing kArunyam towards jeevAthma. Even when Rama dhoothan Anjaneyan curses the arakikal who were the gaurds to SitA pirAttiyAr at ashOka vanam, our beloved mother SitA pirAttiyAr, interrupts Anjaneyar and says "Oh AnjaneyA, please dont curse these pitiable persons. They are only doing their duty on behalf of Ravana. They are doing this only to show that they are slaves to Ravana ( As like Kumbhakarna). Actually they dont have any intention and they aren't responsible for any happenings!". Second thing to note is that, even when Ravana often comes and visits the ashOka vanam to see pirAttiyAr, our mother SitA pirAttiyAr was pitty on Ravana and says that, " If YOU DONT WANT TO GET VANISHED BY the great purushottaman, who is the RESCUER to all those WHO SURRENDERS AT HIS LOTUS FEET, hand over me immediately to HIM! Otherwise IT IS SURE THAT, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED WELL BY HIM !!. This too I AM SAYING TO YOU ATLEAST TO SAVE you from the pApam that you have DONE by separating me from HIM, WITHOUT KNOWING THE FUTURE CONSEQUENCE !!! " Here SitA pirAttiyAr knows that due to kAmA, Ravana lost his Jnanam which is the unique quality of JeevAthmA, and so advices Ravana and remembers him about what the mistake he has done to them (divya thampathis). Also pirAttiyAr says that " It's the duty of HIM to rescue me from Ravana, and surely HE will do that by punishing Ravana which adds quality to HIS characters, and one of HIS kalyAna gunam (Raavananidamirunthu ennai meetpathe avarukku ugantha seiyal; athuvE avarukku thagum) " when Anjaneyar presents kanaiyaazhi to pirAttiyAr. Also, she intimates that " Say to HIM that I am waiting for HIS act of rescuing me from Ravana". This clearly shows that she is only waiting for RAMA for the act of rescue. She dont want herself to use the power and rescue herself from Ravana, which wont brings fame to her pathi Rama. ALso if one attempts to rescue themselves, it wont be fruitfull and may ends up in tragedy. How? Infact here in this, there is *one sootsumam inferred behind this drama of divya dhampathis! * Consider Rama as paramAthmA, pirAttiyAr as JeevAthmA, Anjaneyar as Guru --- This is one team ! Ravana with 10 heads as igaparasugangal that you can get from this earthly world, which will always try to pull up our desires, mind and spoils us in all ways. This has the bad quality of growing like any as the growth of heads of Ravana. NO-STOP! -- THe second team (Raavana and his associates) !! Now the war is with both the teams. Here the JeevAthma loses its Jananam and fell into the trap of kAmA as like pirAttiyAr insists that she want to have that golden deer, even when the Lord is nearer to HER! This is like even enjoying by accompanying with paramAthmA, the jeevAthma has some desire. So the lord leaves the jeevAthma alone to fulfill it's desire by giving birth into this world as some living being. When the Lord left Her(JeevAthma) alone, now the worldly things will take over the JeevAthmA, as did by the Ravana taking pirAttiyAr as refuge. Once caught up into the trap of the samsAric ocean, now its the jeevAthmA through its jnAnam should not fall into this worldly things as did by our pirAttiyAr by not paying any attention towards Ravana, eventhough Ravana is the King and parakiramasALi, and should wait for paramAthmA to rescue from these deadly samsAric ocean. For rescueing the jeevathmA from this samsAric ocean, GURU has to be there, who is creating a LINK between the PARAMATHMA and JEEVATHMA. Without the GURU, jeevAthma cannot attain salvation or moksham or reaching paramathma (this is the key point in Vaishnavam). Here enters, our GURU Anjaneyar. This is point where the Lord Rama suffers without the presence of our pirAttiyAr, and the same case with pirAttiyAr also. She also suffers lot without the presence of HIM! THIS IS THE SAME WITH JEEVATHMAA(us) also. HE is waiting for, to rescue us from samsAric ocean and the jeevAthmA also suffers lot without the paramAthmA. Our AacharyAs(GURU), bringing us close to the paramAthmA. Coming to the point again, now as GURU, ANjaneyar enters and makes both paramAthmA (Lord Raama) and pirAttiyAr (jeevAthmA) feels happy. With the information from ANjanEyar (GURU), Rama (paramAthmA) moves to rescue pirAttiyAr (jeevAthmA) from Raavana (samsAric ocean and other deadlier things). Finally, Raama conquers and wins in retrieving pirAttiyAr from Raavana. This is like, the jeevAthmA finally attains moksham by paramAthmA( as HE is upAyam and upEyam for prapatti) through the help of guru (our AachAryAs!) Here the pirAttiyAr shows us how to perform prapatti and only with the help of HIM we can be rescued from the eveil things. By self- protecting ourselves wont yield good results which may end up in tragedy as like Raavana wants to protect himself finally in the war from Raama ("Indru poi naalai vaa") even after the apachAram done by him. Hence its the duty of Raama to rescue SitA pirAttiyAr from Raavana. This was well shown indirectly by our divya dhampathis during this RaamavathAram. Hence its not good for our pirAttiyAr (and not the duty also) to kill Raavana, NOR she is afraid, NOR she is uncapable. This is NOT THE GOOD PLACE where she can show HER power or capability!!@#@ This only shows HER kArunyam towards HER child. THis only shows how one (jeevAthma) should surrender at the feet of Lord, till HE comes and rescue from this samsAric ocean.!!!! (Adiyen hopes, adiyen didnt made any mistakes. If theres any, please forgive adiyens writings, and suggest if theres any correction!!!) ShrImathE RAmAnujAya namaha: adiyen: senthil.b Oppiliappan, "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv wrote: > > Post 1 > Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, > > Even though Ms.Jyothsna asked this question in 2005, I still have this fresh in my memory and when I get a 'new point' on seethaa's capability in srimadh raamaayaNam, I shared with all of you. I wrote a 5 part series first time titled 'is she not capable', a 4 part series second time as a continuation to the first series. Now I begin the third part and let us see how many parts it takes to conclude. So that part slokam "seethaayaas charitham mahath" is really very great and more apt. > > Just to recollect the question. Quote from part 1 of the first series - Quote - Ms. Jyothsna asked this beautiful question in raamabhakthi list. > RaamaBhakthi on behalf of jyothsna lakshmi [jyothsna_music] > Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:07 PM > raamabhakthi > [RaamaBhakthi] question > Jai shri Ram, Dear learned members.... while i was going through sundarakanda i had a doubt' why did not Seetha kill Ravana for the deed he did? Is she not as powerful as Satyabhama? Or is she also afraid to face Ravana? What are the reasons why she could not save herself and reach her Lord feet Shri Ramachandra*? Regards Jyothsna - unquote. > > Let us see the Sreemadh raamaayaNam incident of "raama observed a fast on the shores of ocean on the opposite side of lanka. He wanted the ocean to allow his team of vaanaraas led by his friend and king sugreeva and himself, to cross over to lanka to win back seetha, the beloved wife of raama. Even after three days the ocean king - the samudhra raajan - did not turn up. Raama was angry and asked lakshmaNa to bring the bow and arrows, so that he will shoot arrows, which will dry up the ocean and leave all the ocean born creatures dead, thereby making it safe for the vaanaraas to crossover to lanka on the ocean bed easily. When lakshmaNa did as directed by the elder, raama shot an arrow into the ocean. Before raama could shoot the second arrow to dry up the ocean, the ocean king appeared accompanied by ganga and sindhu his two wives [among many the important or main ones]". > > Now let us see a set of slOkams from Srimadh raamaayaNam - > > gangaa sindhu pradhaanaabhi aapagaabhi: samaavrutha: | > dhEvathaanaam saroopaabhi: naanaa roopaabhi: eesvara: || 6-22-23 > > saagara: samathikramya poorvam aamanthraya veeryavaan | > abraveeth praanjalir vaakyam raaghavam sara paaNinam || 6-22-24 > [as already written 6 is yudhdha kaaNdam 22 is sargam and 23, 24 are slOkam numbers] > saagara: eesvara:= the ocean [who is] the lord of rivers > samaavrutha: = escorted > aapagaabhi: = by rivers > gangaa sindhu pradhaanaabhi: = mainly Ganga and Sindhu > saroopaabhi: = equal in form > dhevathaanaam = to deities > naanaa roopaabhi: = and endowed with diverse forms > samuprakramya = approached > raaghavam sarapaaNinam = Rama who stood with arrows in hand > aamanthraya = addressing as "Raama!' > praanjali: = with joined palms > poorvam = first > abraveeth = spoke > vaakyam = (the following) words > > meaning: The valiant ocean, the lord of rivers, escorted by rivers mainly the Ganga and Sindhu, endowed with diverse forms resembling various deities, approached Raama who stood with arrows in hand, addressing him first as 'Raama!' with joined palms, and spoke the following words: > > Point: Many a times, it is said the samudhra raajan did surrender to raama at the shores. There is also a krithi by sri aruNaachala kaviraayar in his raama naataka keerthanaigaL on this ocean king episode in raagam asaavEri - we enjoyed the krithi by way of an article in 3 parts earlier. > > "saraNam saraNam raghu raamaa nee ennai > thaRkaaththu aruL paranthaamaa [saraNam] > > virikadal vEndhaa un thiruvadi sErntha en > mEl enna apachaaram aaiyira namaskaaram [saraNam] > > maddi meen onROdu onRu mallaadi amar pooNum > vazhakku theerkkap pOnEn idhaRkO un manam kONum > ettum reNdum theriyaadha enakku iththanaiyO kaaNum > enna pizhai seidhaalum neeyE poRuththal vENum [saraNam] > > But the point here is the ocean king did not surrender but did 'anjali' only and after that started talking. This I pointed out earlier also and that is a variation from vaalmeeki. Similarly kamban also places that varuNan took asylum or surrendered saying "abayam nin abayam". > > Perhaps you may ask what is the relationship between is seethaa capable of killing raavaNa and ocean surrendering to raama or not. You may have to wait till next post. > > Dhasan > Vasudevan m.g. > > > > DISCLAIMER: > This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary.Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC DIVISION > Visit your group "Oppiliappan" on the web. Oppiliappan May god bless you, Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit. Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make your home page now. http://us.click./AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> <*> Oppiliappan/ <*> Oppiliappan <*> Your Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Dear Sri Senthil svAmin: I do not write this for starting any argument, but purely for information.. Your statement that "Consider Rama as paramAthmA, pirAttiyAr as JeevAthmA, Anjaneyar as Guru --- This is one team !" is not a view held by all bhagavad rAmAnuja sampradayam followrs, as you probably know. pirATTi is noit considered a jIvAtmA, but as an integral and inseparable part of the paramAtmA - the pair consisting of pernumAL and thAyAr. Once again, I am not writing this to start a negative discussion on this topic, but just to point out that your statement is one view by a segment of the rAmAnuja sampradAyam followers. I hope this is taken in the spirit of information, and does not start a negative discussion. -dAsan Krishnamachari Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18 > wrote: This reminds one of the krti by Thyagaraja ' Maajaanaki' where he says why seetha did not destroy Ravana even thiugh she was quite capable ' srinaayaka yasamu neeke galga seyaledha',that is she wanted to give the clory to Rama for killing Ravana, which was the idea expressed in Sundarakanda, though not in so many words as our worthy member has quoted. Saroja Ramanujam "B.Senthil kumar" wrote: Dear BhagavathAs, as for as adiyen, considering the question of Ms. Jyothsna on our Sitr pirAtiyArs' capability: " why did not Seetha kill Ravana for the deed he did? Is she not as powerful as Satyabhama? Or is she also afraid to face Ravana? What are the reasons why she could not save herself and reach her Lord feet Shri Ramachandra*? " Here sitA pirAtiyAr, is the extreme in showing kArunyam towards jeevAthma. Even when Rama dhoothan Anjaneyan curses the arakikal who were the gaurds to SitA pirAttiyAr at ashOka vanam, our beloved mother SitA pirAttiyAr, interrupts Anjaneyar and says "Oh AnjaneyA, please dont curse these pitiable persons. They are only doing their duty on behalf of Ravana. They are doing this only to show that they are slaves to Ravana ( As like Kumbhakarna). Actually they dont have any intention and they aren't responsible for any happenings!". Second thing to note is that, even when Ravana often comes and visits the ashOka vanam to see pirAttiyAr, our mother SitA pirAttiyAr was pitty on Ravana and says that, " If YOU DONT WANT TO GET VANISHED BY the great purushottaman, who is the RESCUER to all those WHO SURRENDERS AT HIS LOTUS FEET, hand over me immediately to HIM! Otherwise IT IS SURE THAT, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED WELL BY HIM !!. This too I AM SAYING TO YOU ATLEAST TO SAVE you from the pApam that you have DONE by separating me from HIM, WITHOUT KNOWING THE FUTURE CONSEQUENCE !!! " Here SitA pirAttiyAr knows that due to kAmA, Ravana lost his Jnanam which is the unique quality of JeevAthmA, and so advices Ravana and remembers him about what the mistake he has done to them (divya thampathis). Also pirAttiyAr says that " It's the duty of HIM to rescue me from Ravana, and surely HE will do that by punishing Ravana which adds quality to HIS characters, and one of HIS kalyAna gunam (Raavananidamirunthu ennai meetpathe avarukku ugantha seiyal; athuvE avarukku thagum) " when Anjaneyar presents kanaiyaazhi to pirAttiyAr. Also, she intimates that " Say to HIM that I am waiting for HIS act of rescuing me from Ravana". This clearly shows that she is only waiting for RAMA for the act of rescue. She dont want herself to use the power and rescue herself from Ravana, which wont brings fame to her pathi Rama. ALso if one attempts to rescue themselves, it wont be fruitfull and may ends up in tragedy. How? Infact here in this, there is *one sootsumam inferred behind this drama of divya dhampathis! * Consider Rama as paramAthmA, pirAttiyAr as JeevAthmA, Anjaneyar as Guru --- This is one team ! Ravana with 10 heads as igaparasugangal that you can get from this earthly world, which will always try to pull up our desires, mind and spoils us in all ways. This has the bad quality of growing like any as the growth of heads of Ravana. NO-STOP! -- THe second team (Raavana and his associates) !! Now the war is with both the teams. Here the JeevAthma loses its Jananam and fell into the trap of kAmA as like pirAttiyAr insists that she want to have that golden deer, even when the Lord is nearer to HER! This is like even enjoying by accompanying with paramAthmA, the jeevAthma has some desire. So the lord leaves the jeevAthma alone to fulfill it's desire by giving birth into this world as some living being. When the Lord left Her(JeevAthma) alone, now the worldly things will take over the JeevAthmA, as did by the Ravana taking pirAttiyAr as refuge. Once caught up into the trap of the samsAric ocean, now its the jeevAthmA through its jnAnam should not fall into this worldly things as did by our pirAttiyAr by not paying any attention towards Ravana, eventhough Ravana is the King and parakiramasALi, and should wait for paramAthmA to rescue from these deadly samsAric ocean. For rescueing the jeevathmA from this samsAric ocean, GURU has to be there, who is creating a LINK between the PARAMATHMA and JEEVATHMA. Without the GURU, jeevAthma cannot attain salvation or moksham or reaching paramathma (this is the key point in Vaishnavam). Here enters, our GURU Anjaneyar. This is point where the Lord Rama suffers without the presence of our pirAttiyAr, and the same case with pirAttiyAr also. She also suffers lot without the presence of HIM! THIS IS THE SAME WITH JEEVATHMAA(us) also. HE is waiting for, to rescue us from samsAric ocean and the jeevAthmA also suffers lot without the paramAthmA. Our AacharyAs(GURU), bringing us close to the paramAthmA. Coming to the point again, now as GURU, ANjaneyar enters and makes both paramAthmA (Lord Raama) and pirAttiyAr (jeevAthmA) feels happy. With the information from ANjanEyar (GURU), Rama (paramAthmA) moves to rescue pirAttiyAr (jeevAthmA) from Raavana (samsAric ocean and other deadlier things). Finally, Raama conquers and wins in retrieving pirAttiyAr from Raavana. This is like, the jeevAthmA finally attains moksham by paramAthmA( as HE is upAyam and upEyam for prapatti) through the help of guru (our AachAryAs!) Here the pirAttiyAr shows us how to perform prapatti and only with the help of HIM we can be rescued from the eveil things. By self- protecting ourselves wont yield good results which may end up in tragedy as like Raavana wants to protect himself finally in the war from Raama ("Indru poi naalai vaa") even after the apachAram done by him. Hence its the duty of Raama to rescue SitA pirAttiyAr from Raavana. This was well shown indirectly by our divya dhampathis during this RaamavathAram. Hence its not good for our pirAttiyAr (and not the duty also) to kill Raavana, NOR she is afraid, NOR she is uncapable. This is NOT THE GOOD PLACE where she can show HER power or capability!!@#@ This only shows HER kArunyam towards HER child. THis only shows how one (jeevAthma) should surrender at the feet of Lord, till HE comes and rescue from this samsAric ocean.!!!! (Adiyen hopes, adiyen didnt made any mistakes. If theres any, please forgive adiyens writings, and suggest if theres any correction!!!) ShrImathE RAmAnujAya namaha: adiyen: senthil.b Oppiliappan, "M.G.Vasudevan" wrote: > > Post 1 > Dear srivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, > > Even though Ms.Jyothsna asked this question in 2005, I still have this fresh in my memory and when I get a 'new point' on seethaa's capability in srimadh raamaayaNam, I shared with all of you. I wrote a 5 part series first time titled 'is she not capable', a 4 part series second time as a continuation to the first series. Now I begin the third part and let us see how many parts it takes to conclude. So that part slokam "seethaayaas charitham mahath" is really very great and more apt. > > Just to recollect the question. Quote from part 1 of the first series - Quote - Ms. Jyothsna asked this beautiful question in raamabhakthi list. > RaamaBhakthi on behalf of jyothsna lakshmi [jyothsna_music] > Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:07 PM > raamabhakthi > [RaamaBhakthi] question > Jai shri Ram, Dear learned members.... while i was going through sundarakanda i had a doubt' why did not Seetha kill Ravana for the deed he did? Is she not as powerful as Satyabhama? Or is she also afraid to face Ravana? What are the reasons why she could not save herself and reach her Lord feet Shri Ramachandra*? Regards Jyothsna - unquote. > > Let us see the Sreemadh raamaayaNam incident of "raama observed a fast on the shores of ocean on the opposite side of lanka. He wanted the ocean to allow his team of vaanaraas led by his friend and king sugreeva and himself, to cross over to lanka to win back seetha, the beloved wife of raama. Even after three days the ocean king - the samudhra raajan - did not turn up. Raama was angry and asked lakshmaNa to bring the bow and arrows, so that he will shoot arrows, which will dry up the ocean and leave all the ocean born creatures dead, thereby making it safe for the vaanaraas to crossover to lanka on the ocean bed easily. When lakshmaNa did as directed by the elder, raama shot an arrow into the ocean. Before raama could shoot the second arrow to dry up the ocean, the ocean king appeared accompanied by ganga and sindhu his two wives [among many the important or main ones]". > > Now let us see a set of slOkams from Srimadh raamaayaNam - > > gangaa sindhu pradhaanaabhi aapagaabhi: samaavrutha: | > dhEvathaanaam saroopaabhi: naanaa roopaabhi: eesvara: || 6-22-23 > > saagara: samathikramya poorvam aamanthraya veeryavaan | > abraveeth praanjalir vaakyam raaghavam sara paaNinam || 6-22-24 > [as already written 6 is yudhdha kaaNdam 22 is sargam and 23, 24 are slOkam numbers] > saagara: eesvara:= the ocean [who is] the lord of rivers > samaavrutha: = escorted > aapagaabhi: = by rivers > gangaa sindhu pradhaanaabhi: = mainly Ganga and Sindhu > saroopaabhi: = equal in form > dhevathaanaam = to deities > naanaa roopaabhi: = and endowed with diverse forms > samuprakramya = approached > raaghavam sarapaaNinam = Rama who stood with arrows in hand > aamanthraya = addressing as "Raama!' > praanjali: = with joined palms > poorvam = first > abraveeth = spoke > vaakyam = (the following) words > > meaning: The valiant ocean, the lord of rivers, escorted by rivers mainly the Ganga and Sindhu, endowed with diverse forms resembling various deities, approached Raama who stood with arrows in hand, addressing him first as 'Raama!' with joined palms, and spoke the following words: > > Point: Many a times, it is said the samudhra raajan did surrender to raama at the shores. There is also a krithi by sri aruNaachala kaviraayar in his raama naataka keerthanaigaL on this ocean king episode in raagam asaavEri - we enjoyed the krithi by way of an article in 3 parts earlier. > > "saraNam saraNam raghu raamaa nee ennai > thaRkaaththu aruL paranthaamaa [saraNam] > > virikadal vEndhaa un thiruvadi sErntha en > mEl enna apachaaram aaiyira namaskaaram [saraNam] > > maddi meen onROdu onRu mallaadi amar pooNum > vazhakku theerkkap pOnEn idhaRkO un manam kONum > ettum reNdum theriyaadha enakku iththanaiyO kaaNum > enna pizhai seidhaalum neeyE poRuththal vENum [saraNam] > > But the point here is the ocean king did not surrender but did 'anjali' only and after that started talking. This I pointed out earlier also and that is a variation from vaalmeeki. Similarly kamban also places that varuNan took asylum or surrendered saying "abayam nin abayam". > > Perhaps you may ask what is the relationship between is seethaa capable of killing raavaNa and ocean surrendering to raama or not. You may have to wait till next post. > > Dhasan > Vasudevan m.g. > > > > DISCLAIMER: > This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary.Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC DIVISION > ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Dear Krishnamachari Swamin! Thanks for your question. Its great bhAgyam to explain that concept of comparing Sita with jeevathmA and anjanEyar as achAryan. The same question was posted earlier by Sri Sadagopan Swamin on Sita As jeevAthmA and AnjanEyar as Acharya as follows: > --- gopan <yennappan (AT) computer (DOT) net> wrote: > >> SrI: >> >> Dear Sri Senthil: >> >> I am forwardign Sri M.G.Vasudevan >> for his comments on SithA PirAtti being equated to >> a Jeevan and AnjanEyar as Her AchAryan . >> >> I will wait for his comments . >> >> V.S Then after adiyEn sends some of the events in the life history of Swamy MudaliAndAn, the comparison is not a false one. ADiyen requests to read the following complete mails from adiyens to Sadagopan swamin. Eventhough adiyen doesn't know any Vedics, SmrithIs, etc., adiyen would like to follow our poorvAsiriyars, AchAryAs. From Swamy MudaliyAndAn vaibhavam, Swamy MudaliyAndAn, says clearly in his upadEsam to his sishyAs. Eventhough some feels that, its not good to compare sitA as jeevan and anjanEyan as Acharya, adiyEn will never considered adiyens own thought. Adiyen always considers our Acharya';s vaibhavam. In that way, Swamy MudaliyAndAn is in no way comparable with other sishyAs of Shrimath Ramanujar. Even Swamy KooraththAlwan praises Swamy MudaliyAndAn, since only swamy MudaliyAndAn has dEha sampandam with Swamy Ramanujar. If such a great sathsishyar of Swamy EmperumAnAr compares the position of sitA pirAttiyAr in ashOka vanam with jeevAthma and the act of anjanEyar with achAryars act of panchasamskaram, then WE are in no way to comment that!. Adiyen only followed Swamy MudaliyAndAn vaibhavam. And even Swamy Desikan in his stotram also declared the same thing. AdiyEn requests dont confuse with that, sitA is jeevan, anjanEyar is acharyan. Here that part of Sundara Kandam can be equalled with that of jeevathma's position in this world. Please go through the follwing mail. ---- Original Message ----- "senthil b" <b_senthil2002 (AT) (DOT) co.in> "gopan" <yennappan (AT) computer (DOT) net> Tuesday, May 16, 2006 12:18 AM pramAnam from Swamy Desikans stOtram and MudaliyAndAn vaibhavam! > > Swamin: > > Yesterday, adiyen comes across the same topic > in one of Swamy Desikans' stotram. In that > Swamy states that "...................... > LankAruDHa vivEka rAjadhanayA nyAyam:|" > > Adiyen mentioned only the last line > of the entire stotram. In that Swamy Desikan > clearly states that "the position of sItA > pirAttiyAr in ashOkavanam is EQUIVALENT to > the presence of jeevAthma in this sareeram. > This is nyAyam (true)!" Here Swamy founds the > new truth that both the positions of pirAttiyAr > and the jeevAthma are SAME. > >>From Swamy Desikans pramAnam its clear that > adiyens' words also matches with that. > > The same is expressed in MudaliyAnDAn vaibhavam > also. Swamy MudaliyAndAn is sathsishyar of > Shrimath Ramanujar. One day Swamy MudaliyAndAn > in his upanyAsam to his sishyAs, explained the > concept of sItA pirAttiyArs' position in ashOka > vanam. There Swamy MudaliyAndAn explained as: > " > 1) sitA pirAttiyAr in ashOkavanam is same as > (=)jeevAthma in this sareeram. > > 2) RAvanan with ten heads is same as (=)ten > (patthu)inthiriyangal which pulls the jeevAthma. > > 3) AnjanEyan gave kanaiyAzhi to sItA is > same as (=)AchAryan who perform panchasamskAram > (kanaiyAzhi=chanku chakram)to his sishyA. > > 4)As prathiyupakAram to AnjanEyan, sItA pirAttiyAr > gave HER choodAmani to AnjanEyan, same as (=) > sishyA after receiving panchasamskAram from his > Acharyan, as prathiyupakAram says that "there is > nothing to give you AchAryare! except adiyens > namaskAram". sishyA raises his hand above the HEAD > as like pirAttiyAr gave her Choodamani to AnjanEyan! > > 5) PirAttiyAr in Lanka surrounded by ocean is same > as (=) jeevAthma surrounded by samsAric ocean! > > 6) PirAttiyAr doesnt know about the position of > Sri Rama prabu is same as (=) jeevAthma also doesnt > know (no knowledge)about Paramapada nAthan in SrI > Vaikuntam. > > The only the two difference is that there in > rAmAyanam, Lord Raman doesn't know about the position > (Where about) of sItA pirAttiyAr, but here the > paramAthmA knows the jeevAthmA very well." > > The above was the upanyAsam given by Sri MudaliyAndAn > to his sishyAs which was explained well in his > vaibhavam. Actually there are two differences,Adiyen > forget to explain one more difference between the > pirAttiyArs position with jeevAthma. > > So from the Swamy Desikans stotram, Sri MudaliyAndAn > vaibhavam which adiyen knows, the posting contents > which equates the sitA pirAttiyArs position with > the jeevAthma is correct. > > Adiyen requests Swamin to verify and give Swamins > comments!. > > adiyen, > senthil.b > > > ------- Oppiliappan, Narasimhan Krishnamachari <champakam wrote: > > Dear Sri Senthil svAmin: > > I do not write this for starting any argument, but purely for information. Your statement that > > "Consider Rama as paramAthmA, pirAttiyAr as JeevAthmA, Anjaneyar > as Guru --- This is one team !" > > is not a view held by all bhagavad rAmAnuja sampradayam followrs, as you probably know. pirATTi is noit considered a jIvAtmA, but as an integral and inseparable part of the paramAtmA - the pair consisting of pernumAL and thAyAr. Once again, I am not writing this to start a negative discussion on this topic, but just to point out that your statement is one view by a segment of the rAmAnuja sampradAyam followers. I hope this is taken in the spirit of information, and does not start a negative discussion. > > -dAsan Krishnamachari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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