Multiple replies / Shri Saurav-brilliant

[Guest guest]

That was a brilliant mail.

I am especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you kindly for the

benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a detailed

interpretation.

best wishes

partha

 

On 4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury <sourav12 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

|| Hare Rama Krishna |||| Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Pradeep-ji,

Namaskar. As per your request, I have reread the

postions of the BPHS which is relevent to your and my arguments oncemore so that

I am confident in giving this reply. I wish not towrite any more in this subject

as it is useless to argue against illformed hypotheses, some of which is in your

reply.

You wrote:"You should also carefully read all my mails before

commenting.Everyvarga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

againstvarga ''charts''."My argument: I will only use BPHS in my argument.

1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of his era and later eras)wrote in clear,

unequivocal but also pithy form so save space but todeliver the message

clearly. So each word is very relevant andimportant.Now

let us see the arrangement of chapters in the BPHS.C.1 - The CreationC.2 - Great

Incarnations of the LordC.3 - Planetary Characters and DescriptionC.4 - Zodiacal

SignsC.5 - Finding Planetary Positions

C.6 - Special AscendantsC.7 - The Sixteen Divisions of a SignC.8 - Divisional

ConsiderationC.9 - Aspects of the SignsC.10- Surroundings at the Time of

BirthC.11- Evils at BirthC.12- Antidotes for Evil

C.13- Judgement of HousesC.14- Effects of the 1st HouseC.15- Effects of the 2nd

House(etc.)From the scheme of things, it is very clear that Vargas are of

primeimportance. Explanations are given for Rasi Chakra Analysis **only

after** defining in details all the sixteen divisions of a sign, theformulation

of these vargas and the presiding deities. This issignificant.You again

said:"If you read those chapters with caution and fresh mind all your

doubts will be cleared. How to analyse Vargas has been clearlyexplained.Read

vimshopaka strength in BPHS."Are you implying the Parasara went into all the

trouble of detailsof vargas and presiding deities just to give us a clue for

Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a completely mistaken argument.I will tell

you why.BPHS C.7.2-3Kshetram hora cha dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |Navamso

dasaamamsascha suryamsah shodasamsaka ||

Vimsamso vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |khavedamshokhsabedamsah

sasthiamsascha tatah param ||"These vargas are: Griha (rasi or sign), Hora,

Drekkana,Chaturthamsa, Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa,

Shodasamamsa, Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa, Trimsamsa,Khavedamsa,

Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."Rasi (see the words Kshetram hora cha ..) is

clearly clubbedtogether with other vargas. Hence if we treat rasi's as bhavas

and

perform bhava analysis, why shouldn't we do the same with othervargas which are

only higher divisions of the zodiac just as rasialso is ?!? Thus Rasi Chart is

definitely a divisional chart (calledD-1) and the way it is going to be

analysed (from C.13 onwards) willshow us the way other varga charts should be

analysed.I will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:BPHS

C.8.16 (last line)Trimsamsake vichintyayevamatrapi grihabat smritam ||

Here the Sage gives clear instruction that Chaturthamsa, Navamamsa,Trimsamsa

etc. vargas chakras will be studies **like the 12 houses**in the birth chart

(rasi chakra).Thus it is doubtless that Maharshi indicated that all 16 vargas

are

to be analysed as individual "charts" just like the most popular ofthem i.e. the

rasi varga chart. I hope this expunges all doubt.2. Your next argument is trying

to show that varga charts cannot

exist because it becomes difficult to apply bhava significances invarga

charts.You stated:"In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

and 4thfor mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you pls

tell me what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not achart- so are

other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has tosee the planets Hora

placement.BPHS explains the strength of planetsin Hora."

BPHS C.8.37-38Tanurdhanam cha sahaje bandhuputrarayastatha

|Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah kramat ||Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad

budhyayanusaaratah |Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha brahmamukhaachhrutam ||

" Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati, Randhra, Dharma,Karma, Laabha

and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12 houses.Other things than these should

be understood according to one's own

intelligence. Now I will try to tell you some new things which Iheard from the

speech of Lord Brahma"Carefully read this part ** Other things than these

should beunderstood according to one's own intelligence ** Thus in each

divisional chart each house can potentially mean different thingsdepending on

the particular varga chart in question !!This responds to your second argument.

Refer to Message # 55218 byGuru Narasimha-ji for further understanding what

house can mean what

in a particular Varga. Parasari Hora Chart has two houses only.Infact this is an

exceptional chart in that sense and thus youcannot really ask for the

significance for the 4H or 9H as they dontexist in this particular chart!! In

case of other kinds of Hora

charts like Kashinatha Hora, 4H can mean sukha regarding wealth and9H can mean

fortune regarding wealth, the dharma followed in earningwealth or the guidence

(or mis-guidence) received in earning wealthof things of sustenance etc.

As per Parasara, you should intelligently ask and assign thesignificance of a

particular house in a Varga Chakra. Note thatLagna in that Chakra represents

the native in the particular aspectof life this Varga Chakra is Drawn. Ex. D-10

is a career Varga

chakra and La in D-10 shows the native himself in the field ofcareer. 9H here

will show the nature of guidence and relationshipwith the guide (read 'boss' or

'authority') in the career field.I ask you to exercise your intelligence and

derive the significance

of each divisional chart. It will help you immensely and show youhow deep the

above quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!3. I will end my prolonged

monologue by answering your last argument.You said:

"So is [sic, 'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in beneficshstyamsha

willflourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakraor shastyamsha? Ask

this last question and you will not have anymore

doubts."The referred statement in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the context ofwhat

Maharshi was talking about in that portion you will see that hewas speaking

about what various vargas signify. In the end he says

this statement. Your translation of the statement is misleading. Iwill take what

Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is no doubt in thedestruction of the house

whose lord is in a malefic Sashtiamsa" This

clearly means that no matter what divisional chart you consider, ifany house

lord in any such chart is in a bad Sashtiamsa (read ruledby a malefic deity),

that house in that varga chart is definitelygoing to suffer. He didnt say if

it is Rasi chart, thereby

indicating any divisional chart.Hope this discussion helps. It doesn't matter if

I am new to thisdiscussion. I need not read all your previous e-mails. You seem

tobe too attached to your own line of thinking and shutting away

others. It's best to challenge your own self in understanding ratherthan jump up

and challange other's understandings especially ofthe learned and experienced

like Guru Narasimha-ji.Regards,Sourav

===================================================================--- In

vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"<vijayadas_pradeep@y

....> wrote:>> Dear shri Saurav>> You can address me without a ji.>> I think you

are new to this series of discussion on vargas.It hasbeen> going on since

long.More than a year.Shri Narasimha knows what i am> saying.Also this thread

started when shri Narasimha had analysednew> popes chart without giving

importance to Rashi chart.>> You should also carefully read all my mails before

commenting.Every> varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

againstvarga> ''charts''.If you read those chapters with caution and fresh mind

-> all your doubts will be cleared.> How to analyse Vargas has been clearly

explained.Read vimshopaka> strength in BPHS.>> In bhava analysis - Parashara

advises 9th house for father and 4thfor> mother - This is for rashi chakra not

for vargas. Can you pls tellme

> what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not a chart-so> are

other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has to see the> planets Hora

placement.BPHS explains the strength of planets in

Hora.>> So is shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in benefic shstyamsha will>

flourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakra orshastyamsha?> Ask this

last question and you will not have anymore doubts.

>> Thanks> Pradeep>>> vedic astrology, "Sourav

Chowdhury"> <sourav12@h...> wrote:

> >> > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> >> > Dear Pradeep-ji,> > Namaskar. Your

arguments are ill founded and you> > haven't carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's

comments.

> >> > 1. He never undermined the need to analyse rasi chart. Infact he> >

always say in this mp3 lessons that if Rasi chart doesn't allowan> > event, it

will not happen even if indications are there in the

> > higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi Parasara> > has

first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e. effectivelydefining> > the varga

charts) and then went on into bhava analysis. Why so

much> > importance to varga charts by the Sage himself ?!?> >> > 2. Rasi chart's

houses have so many significances, the same 4Hshows> > motherly relationship,

house, heart, vehicles happiness and so

on.> > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi chart and then go> > into

vargas for a secondary check, you might be mislead. Theideal> > is to mix and

match both of them.> >

> > 3. There is the beautiful example of twins who are born veryclose> > in time

to each other and have completely different capabilitiesand> > personalities.

You can read the details that Guru Narasimha-ji

has> > posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly read it> > before

making further comments.> >> > I like to see many schools of thought. It is

beneficial to

learning.> > But when arguments are made to a Guru's remark for the same of> >

argument, I think it doesn't stand good for the purpose oflearning.> > I hope I

will be taken based on what I wrote and meant and not

> > merely as blind defender of faith in my Guru.> >> > Regards,> >> > Sourav>

>=====================================================================> >

> >> > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"> >

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:> > >

> > > Dear Narasimha ji> > >> > > You are very right in pointing the

imperfections.Now you havesaid> > > Rashi chakra is very simple - Atleast not

for me.I have noteven

> > > understood 10 % of the basics on how to analyse rashi chakra> > >

properly.It will take many years to master.Also on one handyou> > say> > >

combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas and on the other hand -

> > > there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra is not the main why doyou> > > want

to use them in combination with Vargas?.> > > Also if Rashi chakra is not the

main why do you give so many

yogas> > > in your software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to all> > >

aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will we seethe> > >

qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi chakra? How will we

see> > > Saraswati yoga - the yoga for learning.If 10 th house and 10th> > lord>

> > in Rashi chakra is physical ,what is 10th ''house'' and lordin> > >

dashamsha.

> > >> > >> > > Thanks> > > Pradeep> > >> > > --- In

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"> > > <pvr@c...> wrote:>

> > > Namaste friends,> > > >> > > > I will quickly try to respond to multiple

mails on multiple> > lists.

> > > These days I've been really busy and cannot give a moredetailed> > >

reply. I may not actually be able to give any further replieson> > > this

thread.> > > >

> > > > > Can you explain why you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,> > Germany?> > >

At 12 degrees> > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ 1.> > > >

> > > > Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone should be 1:00,please> > >

change the birthtime to 6:33:40 am to 5:33:40 am.> > > >> > > > Bottomline is:

I did not know the time and rectified lagna

in> > rasi> > > and various divisions by retro-fitting.> > > >> > > > > You

wrote:> > > > > Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa in Venus mahadasa!

> > > > > Please check, it is Sat Mahadasa and Moon Antardasa.> > > >> > > >

Praveen, you are right. There is a bug in my software in the> > > second cycle

of Shashtihayani dasa. Thanks for pointing this

out.> > > I'll fix this.> > > >> > > > Technically, BTW, whether we can use

Shashtihayani dasaafter> > the> > > age of 60 has passed is debatable. The same

holds for other

dasas.> > > >> > > > > It has been observed that the Rashi chakra was not

givendue> > > respect> > > > > during your analysis.Results were decided on the

basis of

> > varga -> > > > > which is derived from Rashi chakra.> > > > >> > > > > As

thousands of students are observing this analysis - Pls> > make

> > > it> > > > > clear is it possible to deduce results from varga of a> > >

planet/lagna> > > > > alone.When Panditji had questioned a similar analysis on>

> > saptamsha -

> > > > > One could find Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in andcorrecting -> > > > >

Significance of Rashi chakra.I would be pleased to know ifyou> > > hold a> > >

> > different position.

> > > >> > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify MY position.> > > >> >

> > For perfection, multiple divisional charts should be judged> > > together.

We are often doing imperfect astrology for the sake

of> > > simplicity and look at only one chart. The best answer is notany> > >

single chart, but a combination of charts.> > > >> > > > But, if I have to

choose a single chart, I'll choose the

> > > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for educationetc)> > > rather

than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it works waybetter> > > for me than rasi

chart alone.

> > > >> > > > While combining rasi with divisions leads to better results,it> >

is> > > still away from perfection. Perfection can come only when> > >

shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood correctly and used.

> > > >> > > > When Parasara defined the matters seen in various divisions> >

(e.g.> > > physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,professional> > >

matters in D-10), he said that "everything" is seen in D-60.

Also> > in> > > vimsopaka bala computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a higher> >

> weightage than rasi and navamsa combined!> > > >> > > > I am fully convinced

that the Jyotish is an imperfect

subject> > and> > > just an art as long as one ignores D-60, which was given

somuch> > > importance by Parasara. Jyotish can be established as ascience> >

only

> > > when we master D-60.> > > >> > > > > Kalyan verma states - one who is not

considering thevargas> > > cannot> > > > > make good predictions.What

does this mean? Doesn't it mean> > that> > > there> > > > > is someother place -

(other than vargas) - to read the> > results?> > > Which> > > > > is this other

MAIN place? Is it not the Rashi chakra?

Division> > by> > > > > meaning should have a main to get divided.So which is

this> > main?> > > If we> > > > > consider Rashi chakra as the first division -

then where

is> > the> > > main?> > > >> > > > Rasi is a divisional chart too. It is one of

the vargas> > according> > > to Parasara.> > > >

> > > > There is nothing called main and secondary. If you ask me to> > pick> >

> the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60. As I> > mentioned> > >

above, Parasara said everything can be seen in D-60 and gave

it> > more> > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining

dasavarga> > > vimsopaka bala.> > > >> > > > > Dear Pradeep,> > > > > Correct !

If we apply common sense, we can see Vargas

repeating> > > > > with lagna as it is a few hours before. Only the Moonchanges>

> its> > > >> > > > Vargas do not exactly repeat. Different divisions have

different> > > patterns. The navamsa, dasamsa, vimsamsa, chaturvimsamsa and> > >

shashtyamsa combination I identified in Aries rasi lagna doesnot> > > repeat in

Pisces rasi or Taurus rasi.

> > > >> > > > > position fast. Then, touchstone of any predictiveprinciple is>

> > advance> > > > > predictions, which they always elude. Veteran astrologers

of> > > Jyotish> > > > > Group like Shri K.N.Rao and Satya Prakash ji too

advisedthem,> > > but> > > > > of no avail. A whole generation is being

misguided. Most

> > > unfortunate !> > > > > But then, as Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of

the God.> > > >> > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that "a

whole

> > > generation is being misguided". Whether a generation is being> > >

misguided or guided in the correct direction to fully discoverthe> > >

teachings of maharshis and establish astrology as a science is

> > > something that the coming generations will judge. Neither Inor> > you> > >

are in a position to pre-judge it.> > > >> > > > Let me do my work and you do

your work. There is no need to

talk> > > about misguided generations.> > > >> > > > > [Visti] Parasara states

that if eighth lord is well placedor> > > even exalted,> > > > > then longevity

will be long - This is also applied in the

> > method> > > of three> > > > > pairs. You may argue that the eighth lord when

strong will> > cause> > > problems,> > > > > but Harihara states in Prasna

Marga, that when the planets

are> > > strong they> > > > > will give their auspicious results - he states

that this> > applies> > > to both> > > > > natal and prasna charts. Further

being Vara lord and in

the> > > fifth house, it> > > > > means the digestive fire is excellent and

excellent healthis> > > promised. This> > > > > is not the problem.> > > >

> > > > Visti, I do not look at only the placement of vaaresha butalso> > > the

ownership of the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in amuhurta> > > happens to be

randhresha, I do not consider it auspicious.

This is> > > just my view and not explicitly granted by classics. If youhave a>

> > different view, I can respect it.> > > >> > > > > [Visti] What is your

current view on the use of the

arudha> > > lagna in the> > > > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?> > > >> > > >

Hmm, I don't have any view. I spent so much time mullingover> > > Parasara's

vaiseshikamsa clause "swaaroodhaat kendra

naathaanaam> > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa", but could not come to

aconclusion.> > > >> > > > When I wrote that Sun is in Brahmalokamsa in Pope

BenedictXVI's

> > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat" criterion. I used onlythe> > >

standard definition and ignoring the additional clause.> > > >> > > > When Lord

Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will understand this

> > clause> > > correctly. When I do, I will share my understanding with

all.For> > > now, I have no view.> > > >> > > > > [Visti] In concur with your

choice for the popes chart -

good> > > rectification.> > > >> > > > Thank you very much Visti. I am glad a

Jyotish scholar ofyour> > > knowledge and abilities has concurred with my

rectification.

> > > >> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,> > > > Narasimha> > > >

-------------------------------> > > > Free

Jyotish lessons (MP3):

http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > Free Jyotish software

(Windows):http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > >

----------

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082

[Guest guest]

I would like to add my 2 cent...

 

following argument Appealed me and convinced me about the 'Importance' of Varga chart

 

1) Each House in Rashi chart stands for so many matters. how to diifferntiate?

(pl. i know karka technology)

 

2) If rishi says that d9 is chart for dharma/spouse, d10 for respect and work in

, d12 for parents and so on & so forth then it automatically brings the

important of Vargas as 'Charts' and not merely tool to see Vimshopak bal,

Vaiseshikamsha etc..

 

3) Major difference in lives of Twins can be most fittingly justied only by

Difference in Varga charts.

 

regards,

 

utpal pathak

 

 

 

Partha Sarathy <partvinu > wrote:

Dear Sourav

 

That was a brilliant mail.

I am especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you kindly for the

benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a detailed

interpretation.

best wishes

partha

 

On 4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury <sourav12 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: || Hare Rama Krishna

|||| Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Pradeep-ji, Namaskar. As per your

request, I have reread the postions of the BPHS which is relevent to your and

my arguments oncemore so that I am confident in giving this reply. I wish not

towrite any more in this subject as it is useless to argue against illformed

hypotheses, some of which is in your reply. You wrote:"You should also

carefully read all my mails before commenting.Everyvarga defined by sage

parashara is important - i am only againstvarga ''charts''."My argument: I will

only use BPHS in my argument. 1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of his era

and later eras)wrote in clear, unequivocal but also pithy form so save space

but todeliver the

message clearly. So each word is very relevant andimportant.Now let us see the

arrangement of chapters in the BPHS.C.1 - The CreationC.2 - Great Incarnations

of the LordC.3 - Planetary Characters and DescriptionC.4 - Zodiacal SignsC.5 -

Finding Planetary Positions C.6 - Special AscendantsC.7 - The Sixteen Divisions

of a SignC.8 - Divisional ConsiderationC.9 - Aspects of the SignsC.10-

Surroundings at the Time of BirthC.11- Evils at BirthC.12- Antidotes for Evil

C.13- Judgement of HousesC.14- Effects of the 1st HouseC.15- Effects of the 2nd

House(etc.)From the scheme of things, it is very clear that Vargas are of

primeimportance. Explanations are given for Rasi Chakra Analysis **only after**

defining in details all the sixteen divisions of a sign, theformulation of these

vargas and the presiding deities. This issignificant.You again said:"If you read

those chapters with

caution and fresh mind all your doubts will be cleared. How to analyse Vargas

has been clearlyexplained.Read vimshopaka strength in BPHS."Are you implying

the Parasara went into all the trouble of detailsof vargas and presiding

deities just to give us a clue for Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a

completely mistaken argument.I will tell you why.BPHS C.7.2-3Kshetram hora cha

dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |Navamso dasaamamsascha suryamsah shodasamsaka

|| Vimsamso vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |khavedamshokhsabedamsah

sasthiamsascha tatah param ||"These vargas are: Griha (rasi or sign), Hora,

Drekkana,Chaturthamsa, Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa,

Shodasamamsa, Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa, Trimsamsa,Khavedamsa,

Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."Rasi (see the words Kshetram hora cha ..) is

clearly clubbedtogether with other vargas. Hence if we treat rasi's as bhavas

and perform bhava analysis, why shouldn't we do the same with othervargas which

are only higher divisions of the zodiac just as rasialso is ?!? Thus Rasi Chart

is definitely a divisional chart (calledD-1) and the way it is going to be

analysed (from C.13 onwards) willshow us the way other varga charts should be

analysed.I will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:BPHS

C.8.16 (last line)Trimsamsake vichintyayevamatrapi grihabat smritam || Here the

Sage gives clear instruction that Chaturthamsa, Navamamsa,Trimsamsa etc. vargas

chakras will be studies **like the 12 houses**in the birth chart (rasi

chakra).Thus it is doubtless that Maharshi indicated that all 16 vargas are to

be analysed as individual "charts" just like the most popular ofthem i.e. the

rasi varga chart. I hope this expunges all doubt.2. Your next argument is

trying to show that varga charts cannotexist because it

becomes difficult to apply bhava significances invarga charts.You stated:"In

bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father and 4thfor mother -

This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you pls tell me what is 4th and

9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not achart- so are other vargas.After

seeing 2nd house matters,one has tosee the planets Hora placement.BPHS explains

the strength of planetsin Hora." BPHS C.8.37-38Tanurdhanam cha sahaje

bandhuputrarayastatha |Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah kramat

||Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad budhyayanusaaratah |Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha

brahmamukhaachhrutam || " Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati,

Randhra, Dharma,Karma, Laabha and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12

houses.Other things than these should be understood according to one's

ownintelligence. Now I will try to tell you some new things which Iheard from

the

speech of Lord Brahma"Carefully read this part ** Other things than these should

beunderstood according to one's own intelligence ** Thus in each divisional

chart each house can potentially mean different thingsdepending on the

particular varga chart in question !!This responds to your second argument.

Refer to Message # 55218 byGuru Narasimha-ji for further understanding what

house can mean what in a particular Varga. Parasari Hora Chart has two houses

only.Infact this is an exceptional chart in that sense and thus youcannot

really ask for the significance for the 4H or 9H as they dontexist in this

particular chart!! In case of other kinds of Hora charts like Kashinatha Hora,

4H can mean sukha regarding wealth and9H can mean fortune regarding wealth, the

dharma followed in earningwealth or the guidence (or mis-guidence) received in

earning wealthof things of sustenance etc. As per Parasara, you should

intelligently ask and assign thesignificance of a particular house in a Varga

Chakra. Note thatLagna in that Chakra represents the native in the particular

aspectof life this Varga Chakra is Drawn. Ex. D-10 is a career Varga chakra and

La in D-10 shows the native himself in the field ofcareer. 9H here will show the

nature of guidence and relationshipwith the guide (read 'boss' or 'authority')

in the career field.I ask you to exercise your intelligence and derive the

significance of each divisional chart. It will help you immensely and show

youhow deep the above quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!3. I will end my

prolonged monologue by answering your last argument.You said: "So is [sic,

'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in beneficshstyamsha willflourish -

where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakraor shastyamsha? Ask this last

question and you will not have anymore doubts."The referred

statement in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the context ofwhat Maharshi was talking

about in that portion you will see that hewas speaking about what various

vargas signify. In the end he says this statement. Your translation of the

statement is misleading. Iwill take what Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is

no doubt in thedestruction of the house whose lord is in a malefic Sashtiamsa"

This clearly means that no matter what divisional chart you consider, ifany

house lord in any such chart is in a bad Sashtiamsa (read ruledby a malefic

deity), that house in that varga chart is definitelygoing to suffer. He didnt

say if it is Rasi chart, thereby indicating any divisional chart.Hope this

discussion helps. It doesn't matter if I am new to thisdiscussion. I need not

read all your previous e-mails. You seem tobe too attached to your own line of

thinking and shutting away others. It's best to challenge your own self in

understanding ratherthan jump up and challange other's understandings especially

ofthe learned and experienced like Guru Narasimha-ji.Regards,Sourav

===================================================================--- In

vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"<vijayadas_pradeep@y ...>

wrote:>> Dear shri Saurav>> You can address me without a ji.>> I think you are

new to this series of discussion on vargas.It hasbeen> going on since long.More

than a year.Shri Narasimha knows what i am> saying.Also this thread started when

shri Narasimha had analysednew> popes chart without giving importance to Rashi

chart.>> You should also carefully read all my mails before commenting.Every>

varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only againstvarga>

''charts''.If you read

those chapters with caution and fresh mind -> all your doubts will be cleared.>

How to analyse Vargas has been clearly explained.Read vimshopaka> strength in

BPHS.>> In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father and 4thfor>

mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you pls tellme > what is

4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not a chart-so> are other

vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has to see the> planets Hora

placement.BPHS explains the strength of planets in Hora.>> So is shastyamsha -

the bhava whose lord in benefic shstyamsha will> flourish - where is this bhava

found? In Rashi chakra orshastyamsha?> Ask this last question and you will not

have anymore doubts. >> Thanks> Pradeep>>> --- In

vedic astrology, "Sourav

Chowdhury"> <sourav12@h...> wrote: > >> > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> >> > Dear

Pradeep-ji,> > Namaskar. Your arguments are ill founded and you> > haven't

carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's comments. > >> > 1. He never undermined the

need to analyse rasi chart. Infact he> > always say in this mp3 lessons that if

Rasi chart doesn't allowan> > event, it will not happen even if indications are

there in the > > higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi

Parasara> > has first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e.

effectivelydefining> > the varga charts) and then went on into bhava analysis.

Why so much> > importance to varga charts by the Sage himself ?!?> >> > 2. Rasi

chart's houses have so many significances, the same 4Hshows> > motherly

relationship, house, heart, vehicles

happiness and so on.> > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi chart and

then go> > into vargas for a secondary check, you might be mislead. Theideal> >

is to mix and match both of them.> > > > 3. There is the beautiful example of

twins who are born veryclose> > in time to each other and have completely

different capabilitiesand> > personalities. You can read the details that Guru

Narasimha-ji has> > posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly read

it> > before making further comments.> >> > I like to see many schools of

thought. It is beneficial to learning.> > But when arguments are made to a

Guru's remark for the same of> > argument, I think it doesn't stand good for

the purpose oflearning.> > I hope I will be taken based on what I wrote and

meant and

not > > merely as blind defender of faith in my Guru.> >> > Regards,> >> >

Sourav> >=====================================================================>

> > >> > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"> >

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Narasimha ji> > >> > > You are

very right in pointing the imperfections.Now you havesaid> > > Rashi chakra is

very simple - Atleast not for me.I have noteven > > > understood 10 % of the

basics on how to analyse rashi chakra> > > properly.It will take many years to

master.Also on one handyou> > say> > > combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas

and on the other hand - > > > there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra is

not the main why doyou> > > want to use them in combination with Vargas?.> > >

Also if Rashi chakra is not the main why do you give so many yogas> > > in your

software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to all> > > aspects.If Rashi chakra

is just for physique - how will we seethe> > > qualities of Mahapurusha from

the Rashi chakra? How will we see> > > Saraswati yoga - the yoga for

learning.If 10 th house and 10th> > lord> > > in Rashi chakra is physical

,what is 10th ''house'' and lordin> > > dashamsha. > > >> > >> > > Thanks> > >

Pradeep> > >> > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R.

Rao"> > > <pvr@c...> wrote:> > > > Namaste friends,> > >

>> > > > I will quickly try to respond to multiple mails on multiple> > lists. >

> > These days I've been really busy and cannot give a moredetailed> > > reply.

I may not actually be able to give any further replieson> > > this thread.> > >

> > > > > > Can you explain why you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,> > Germany?> > >

At 12 degrees> > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ 1.> > > > > > > >

Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone should be 1:00,please> > > change the

birthtime to 6:33:40 am to 5:33:40 am.> > > >> > > > Bottomline is: I did not

know the time and rectified lagna in> > rasi> > > and various divisions by

retro-fitting.> > > >> > > > > You wrote:> > > >

> Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa in Venus mahadasa! > > > > > Please

check, it is Sat Mahadasa and Moon Antardasa.> > > >> > > > Praveen, you are

right. There is a bug in my software in the> > > second cycle of Shashtihayani

dasa. Thanks for pointing this out.> > > I'll fix this.> > > >> > > >

Technically, BTW, whether we can use Shashtihayani dasaafter> > the> > > age of

60 has passed is debatable. The same holds for other dasas.> > > >> > > > > It

has been observed that the Rashi chakra was not givendue> > > respect> > > > >

during your analysis.Results were decided on the basis of > > varga -> > > > >

which is derived from Rashi chakra.> > > > >> > > > > As thousands of students

are

observing this analysis - Pls> > make> > > it> > > > > clear is it possible to

deduce results from varga of a> > > planet/lagna> > > > > alone.When Panditji

had questioned a similar analysis on> > > saptamsha - > > > > > One could find

Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in andcorrecting -> > > > > Significance of Rashi

chakra.I would be pleased to know ifyou> > > hold a> > > > > different

position. > > > >> > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify MY

position.> > > >> > > > For perfection, multiple divisional charts should be

judged> > > together. We are often doing imperfect astrology for the sake of> >

> simplicity and look at only one chart. The best answer is notany> > > single

chart, but a combination of

charts.> > > >> > > > But, if I have to choose a single chart, I'll choose the >

> > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for educationetc)> > > rather

than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it works waybetter> > > for me than rasi

chart alone.> > > >> > > > While combining rasi with divisions leads to better

results,it> > is> > > still away from perfection. Perfection can come only

when> > > shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood correctly and used. > > > >> > > >

When Parasara defined the matters seen in various divisions> > (e.g.> > >

physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,professional> > > matters in

D-10), he said that "everything" is seen in D-60. Also> > in> > > vimsopaka bala

computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a

higher> > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined!> > > >> > > > I am fully

convinced that the Jyotish is an imperfect subject> > and> > > just an art as

long as one ignores D-60, which was given somuch> > > importance by Parasara.

Jyotish can be established as ascience> > only> > > when we master D-60.> > >

>> > > > > Kalyan verma states - one who is not considering thevargas> > >

cannot> > > > > make good predictions.What does this mean? Doesn't it mean> >

that> > > there> > > > > is someother place - (other than vargas) - to read

the> > results?> > > Which> > > > > is this other MAIN place? Is it not the

Rashi chakra? Division> > by> > > > > meaning should have a main to get

divided.So which is this> > main?> > > If we> > > > > consider Rashi chakra as

the first division - then where is> > the> > > main?> > > >> > > > Rasi is a

divisional chart too. It is one of the vargas> > according> > > to Parasara.> >

> > > > > > There is nothing called main and secondary. If you ask me to> >

pick> > > the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60. As I> >

mentioned> > > above, Parasara said everything can be seen in D-60 and gave it>

> more> > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining dasavarga> >

> vimsopaka bala.> > > >> > > > > Dear Pradeep,> > > > > Correct ! If we apply

common sense, we can see Vargas repeating> > > > >

with lagna as it is a few hours before. Only the Moonchanges> > its> > > >> > >

> Vargas do not exactly repeat. Different divisions have different> > >

patterns. The navamsa, dasamsa, vimsamsa, chaturvimsamsa and> > > shashtyamsa

combination I identified in Aries rasi lagna doesnot> > > repeat in Pisces rasi

or Taurus rasi. > > > >> > > > > position fast. Then, touchstone of any

predictiveprinciple is> > > advance> > > > > predictions, which they always

elude. Veteran astrologers of> > > Jyotish> > > > > Group like Shri K.N.Rao and

Satya Prakash ji too advisedthem,> > > but> > > > > of no avail. A whole

generation is being misguided. Most > > > unfortunate !> > > > > But then, as

Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of the

God.> > > >> > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that "a whole > >

> generation is being misguided". Whether a generation is being> > > misguided

or guided in the correct direction to fully discoverthe> > > teachings of

maharshis and establish astrology as a science is > > > something that the

coming generations will judge. Neither Inor> > you> > > are in a position to

pre-judge it.> > > >> > > > Let me do my work and you do your work. There is no

need to talk> > > about misguided generations.> > > >> > > > > [Visti] Parasara

states that if eighth lord is well placedor> > > even exalted,> > > > > then

longevity will be long - This is also applied in the > > method> > > of three>

> > > > pairs. You

may argue that the eighth lord when strong will> > cause> > > problems,> > > > >

but Harihara states in Prasna Marga, that when the planets are> > > strong they>

> > > > will give their auspicious results - he states that this> > applies> > >

to both> > > > > natal and prasna charts. Further being Vara lord and in the> >

> fifth house, it> > > > > means the digestive fire is excellent and excellent

healthis> > > promised. This> > > > > is not the problem.> > > > > > > > Visti,

I do not look at only the placement of vaaresha butalso> > > the ownership of

the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in amuhurta> > > happens to be randhresha, I

do not consider it auspicious. This is> > > just my view and not explicitly

granted

by classics. If youhave a> > > different view, I can respect it.> > > >> > > > >

[Visti] What is your current view on the use of the arudha> > > lagna in the> >

> > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?> > > >> > > > Hmm, I don't have any view. I

spent so much time mullingover> > > Parasara's vaiseshikamsa clause

"swaaroodhaat kendra naathaanaam> > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa", but could

not come to aconclusion.> > > >> > > > When I wrote that Sun is in Brahmalokamsa

in Pope BenedictXVI's > > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat" criterion. I

used onlythe> > > standard definition and ignoring the additional clause.> > >

>> > > > When Lord Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will understand this > >

clause>

> > correctly. When I do, I will share my understanding with all.For> > > now, I

have no view.> > > >> > > > > [Visti] In concur with your choice for the popes

chart - good> > > rectification.> > > >> > > > Thank you very much Visti. I am

glad a Jyotish scholar ofyour> > > knowledge and abilities has concurred with

my rectification. > > > >> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,> > > >

Narasimha> > > >

-------------------------------> > > > Free

Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > Free Jyotish

software (Windows):http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > SJC website:

http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > >

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