Guest guest Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Dear Partha , Can even using the divisional charts can we find the difference ? Why take twins only . Take two persons born at two different places at times say ten minute difference in such a way that the difference in rising lagna compensates for the time difference . You will see that the Rashi and *all* divisional charts remain the same . Even when we are taking the divisionals the variable parameter is only time that is considered . Regards , Anand - V.Partha sarathy <partvinu <vedic astrology> Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:48 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Doubt in Jagannath hora sw/Narasimha ji > Dear Panditji > > I have only one point to say here, forget about twins, just think for > a second how many people are born every second every minute in India. > For a particular latitude belt, the navamsa wont change, in some > cases other divisionals also wont change. But they lead totally > different lives, one is born to a poor beggar, and another to a rich > person. One will be born in orthodox family, one in a liberal family, > different religions, castes, etc. > > Can any astrologer by using the rasi chart alone guess the difference? > > > best wishes > partha > > vedic astrology, Panditji <navagraha@g...> > wrote: > > Namaste Vijaydas, > > > > Again a very nicely written post. I agree with your viewpoints and I > > went back and looked for references where sage has mentioned bhavas > in > > amshas. Everyplace he talks about bhavas he seems to be referring to > > the main rashi kundali. > > > > Narasimha, > > > > I think the point being made here is where is the Pararashar's > saction > > of using bhavas in amshas. The point is not whether Raman used them > or > > KNRao used them. What Vijaydas is asking is where is the reference > in > > the classics. You have mentioned many times that Parashar is the > > greatest authority on jyotish so lets use his work in BPHS as the > > reference. > > > > I had mentioned about one Mr V.D. Bhat one of the most celebrated > > jyotishi of the past 25 years in western Maharashtra. he has a track > > record of fantanstic prediction in natal horoscopy. He is a legend. > He > > uses Uranus and Neptune and his books, all in marathi, are full of > > references to uranus and neptune. He uses even dashas sparingly. He > > has developed a jyotish drishti for these combinations. Mr. Gogate > of > > this list is familiar with his works. Now that is his method but it > > has NO classical standing. Parashar did not mention uranus or > neptune. > > So if someone from his school starts using these outer planets > BTW, > > all of his students use them) and are making accurate predictions > in > > high percentage of cases all power to them. But again there is no > > classical reference to it. > > > > The question Vijaydas has been asking is where is the classical > > reference to using amshas as houses ? You have mentioned that SJC > did > > not invent these divisional charts. I am glad that you said that > > because anyone who has questioned the use of them has been grouped > > into someone who is against SJC.So much so that some beleive it as a > > SJC tradition. > > > > Also many just say that what is not seen in the rashi chart won't be > > given by divioans/divisioanl charts. But how many actually practice > it > > that way. My question is why not go only to rashi chart to see what > is > > promised by rashi chart. If it can not be seen in rashi chart, how > can > > it be seen in divisions ( except for the strength of the graha). To > > say that there are many significations for the houses and one has to > > go to the divisionals to see the real picture is inexperience of not > > seeing the thing in rashi chart. The jyotishi I mentioned does not > > have to go to divisionals to see things clearly. he has many subtle > > reference points, like for spouse, just by seeing shukra in simha he > > has drawn a few conclusions, then the seventh lord..etc. etc. If we > > spend our time to deeply understand the rashi chart from a couple of > > reference points and master that, it is enough to answer most of the > > questions people have. > > > > Yes, that leaves the question of twins, that has been brought up > > everytime this discussion is going on. I have not seen much evidence > > that divisional charts can conclusively predict for twins. It is > not a > > proven fact nor a forgone conclusion. From a practical standpoint > the > > number of people who are twins is so miniscule that it is but an > > academic excercise for me. Maybe its a good research topic unless > > someone is claming to have solved that riddle. > > > > with respects > > > > ... > > > > On 7/13/05, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > Dear Narasimha ji Namaste > > > > > > It is not at all an extreme position or promotion of any personal > bias. > > > When we talk of age old tradition,we can travel backwards ,even > before > > > the times of Dr.Raman.Such scholars(published works) did use nav > > > ''amsha'' of various bhava nathas and lagna, but no houses.Thus > one > > > needs to be skeptical about the traditional part. > > > > > > Dr.Raman, if we note, had used group of navamshas as a chart > similar > > > to Rashi chakra(ie for all matters).Even profession was seen from > 10th > > > house in navamsha. > > > Now suppose if i use them for my spouse(combining parasharas > advise > > > with your advise(usage of houses)) - are'nt we going to see the > same > > > results for me and my spouse.Thus i request, not to feel offended > by > > > my comments. > > > > > > If we read classics,we can find navamsha being considered (not > > > spouses)before arriving at results for bhava lords. > > > Thus Dr.Raman giving importance to navamsha is understandable. > > > As Dr.Raman had first evaluated all the necessary from the rashi > > > chakra, before making a prediction, and had used > navamsha ''chakra'' > > > only as a secondary source,it has not made any negative impacts > on his > > > works/predictions. > > > > > > Thus if you want to support the usage based on tradition,i may > have to > > > point your attention towards the weakness,as well. > > > But if you feel you are doing justice to your conscience after > reading > > > all the materials,it is completely alright. > > > As i am not expecting a conclusive acceptance,let us strive > towards > > > perfecting our knowledge,thorugh application of individual > discretions > > > and mutual sharing.For me it is impossile to imagine houses. > > > > > > > > > Respect > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote: > > > > Namaste Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > I am not the first person expressing concerns over treatment > of > > > > > divisionals as charts.Many learned scholars of yester years > have > > > > done > > > > > so.Thus it is worth giving a thought. > > > > > > > > Not many, only some. While scholars like Dr B.V. Raman may not > have > > > > used dasamsa etc heavily in their publicly available works, > they DID > > > > use navamsa and did use houses in it. In fact, most of the well- > > > > known scholars I know did use houses in navamsa. > > > > > > > > Thus, your position is an extreme one and against an age old > > > > tradition. > > > > > > > > Your extreme position is not what offends me. It is your use of > > > > expressions like "raw or first level attempt" and "trial" that > > > > offends me. You are mis-characterizing an age old tradition to > > > > promote your personal biases. > > > > > > > > > Now coming to the topic.You may also try to think,why Bhava > in > > > > Rashi > > > > > chakra initiates the Narayana Dasha(from the parampara you > have > > > > > mentioned) for a divisional matter.Thus i may assume that > > > > traditional > > > > > knowledge got diluted a bit as part of experimentation,by > > > > contemporary > > > > > jyotishis.This as i said may have been an attempt to know the > > > > truth. > > > > > > > > If you want to use Narayana dasa as an example to drive your > point > > > > home, you made a choice! > > > > > > > > Narayana dasa has umpteen variations. While some variations of > > > > divisional Narayana dasa are based on the houses in rasi chart, > some > > > > are based on houses in divisions themselves. For example, > Narayana > > > > dasa started from the sign occupied in D-12 by the planet > owning the > > > > 9th house in rasi chart shows the guidance one gets from > father, > > > > Narayana dasa started from the 9th house of D-12 itself is used > to > > > > see the events happening to father. > > > > > > > > Even when we find a divisional Narayana dasa based on house > lords of > > > > rasi chart, we do use houses in division. For example, seeing > the > > > > start sign and "7th house" from it, seeing the "9th house" from > > > > start sign etc are all done in the divisional chart. Houses in > > > > divisional chart are implicitly assumed even though houses of > rasi > > > > chart determine the starting position. > > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... 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