Trimsasma and other vargas _ the rationale

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Divisions Such as Trimsamsa

===========================

Before some days somebody has asked the question "Why

Trimsamsa lords are for 5-6-7-8 degrees while the name suggest that,

one Trimsamsa should be equal to 1/30 th of a sign (i.e. 1 Degree)".

Let me try to answer this question.

Initially there were 2 systems in astrology for deriving predictions

based on divisions.

1) That gives importance to Rasi vargas, especially to 12 Rasi vargas

(Dwadesa Rasi varga)

2) That gives importance to the lords of Rasis (signs) [This system

was later came to be known as shadvarga, saptha varga etc]

Let us study these 2 systems in detail.

1) Dwadesa Rasi varga

---------------------

There should be a systematic method for the mixing of the

characteristics of signs (Rasis) without which minute analysis is

impossible. Thus came about the Dwadesa rasi varga

system. 'Sphugidhvaja Hora' (An old classic on astrology) states

that -

"Rasau to yo dwadesa bhaga samstha

Swai Swai phalai samkulayanthi rasim"

Which means - signs have 12 vargas. The characteristics of

each division (varga) of sign differ due to the inter-mixing of the

qualities and characteristics of other signs.

Now what is the systematic method for deriving Rasi vargas?

While describing hora (2 fold division of rasi) 'Parasara

hora' states that -

"Parivrithi dwayam thesham meshade kremaso bhaveth"

Which means - the hora division circles the zodiac 2 times,

starting from the sign Aris.

Putting it mathematically, we get -

Hora = Sputa x 2

i.e. if we multiply the longitude (planetary longitude or the

nirayana longitude of any degree) by 2 we get the hora sputa. Thus

first half of Aris would have the characteristics of Aris itself,

while the second half will have the characteristics of both Aris and

Taurus. For Taurus, the first half of it will have the

characteristics of Taurus and Gemini, and the second will have the

characteristics of Taurus and Cancer. It goes on like this.

This system is true for all Rasi vargas. For example, while

discussing Drekkana, Parasara states that -

"Parivrithi treyam thesham meshade kremaso bhaveth"

Which mathematically means -

Drekkana sputa = sputa x 3

Thus for Aris: - the first Drekkana will have the

characteristics of Aris, while the second is a mixture of Aris and

Taurus, and the third Drekkana will have the mixed characteristics of

Aris and Gemini. For Taurus: - The first Drekkana will have the mixed

characteristics of Taurus and Cancer, the second of Taurus and Leo,

and the third of Taurus and Virgo. It goes on like this.

Now is it a generalized system, which could be used for all

Rasi vargas? Yes, it is!! Because in Saravali (another classic text

of astrology), we could see the statement -

"Legnadeenam liptha jgeya swa grihadi varga samgunitha

Ashtadesasatha bhaktha lebdha syadeepsitho varga"

Which means - If you multiply the sputa of the Ascendant and

the other planets with the varga number and then divide it with 1800

you can find out, in which sign the varga sputa will occur. Thus for -

4th varga (Chathurdhamsa) = sputa x 4

5th varga (Panchamamsa) = sputa x 5

6th varga (Shadamsa) = sputa x 6

7th varga (Sapthamsa) = sputa x 7

8th varga (Ashtamsa) = sputa x 8

9th varga (Navamsa) = sputa x 9

10th varga (Desamsa) = sputa x 10

11th varga (Ekadesamsa) = sputa x 11

12th varga (Dwadesamsa) = sputa x 12

There is only 12 Signs, and as you can intermix only these 12

Signs the important Rasi vargas are Dwadesa rasi vargas.

But of course you can also mathematically derive other rasi

vargas such as,

Trimsamsa = sputa x 30

Shodasamsa = sputa x 60 etc

But if a clear method for mathematically asserting the

exactness of birth time is not present, there is no point in using

such rasi vargas. Because if there is an error of 4 minutes in birth

time Trimsamsa will change, and if there is an error of 2 minutes

Shodasamsa will change. (Remember also the controversy - What exactly

is the birth-time? How to rectify it mathematically if there is an

error of say, more than 10 minutes?)

So much about the first system of Divisions. Now let us

discuss the other system of divisions - namely Shadvarga system.

2) Shadvargadhipa system

------------------------

Rather than giving importance to mixing of the

characteristics of signs, this system gives importance to the lords

of the signs.

The names used are - Kshethra, Hora, Drekkana, Navamsa,

Dwadesamsa, Trimsamsa.

May be it is this use of same names as used in Dwadesa rasi

vargas later caused all the confusion. The interpolation of new

slokas (and dropping of some old slokas) both in Parasara hora and

Saravali should have added to the trouble. Both this texts as we get

today are not in their purest form (There are many evidences to reach

this conclusion - which are not relevant here). What ever be the

connected reasons let us discuss this system.

Kshethradhipa: Lord of the sign

Horadhipa: Lord of the 2-fold division.

For odd sign - for 1st half it is sun

and for the 2nd half it is moon

For even sign - for 1st half it is

moon and for the 2nd half it is sun.

Drekkanadhipa: Lord of the 3-fold division

For chara sign - lords of 1-5-9 signs

in order.

For sthira sign - lords of 5-9-1

signs in order.

For ubhaya sign - lords of 9-1-5

signs in order.

Navamsadhipa: Lord of the 9-fold division

Navamsa lords of Dwadesa varga.

Dwadesamsadhipa: Lord of 12-fold division.

Dwadesamsa is counted from the sign of the sputa in

which the sputa is posited.

Trimsamsadhipa: Lords of some sets of degrees.

For odd sign - 5 Deg (Mars), 5 Deg (Saturn), 8 Deg (Jupiter),

7 Deg (Mercury), 5 Deg (Venus)

For even sign - 5 Deg (Venus), 7 Deg (Mercury), 8 Deg

(Jupiter), 5 Deg (Saturn), 5 Deg (Mars)

This Shadvargadhipa system, which gives importance to the

lords of these divisions, rather than to the signs (Rasis), helps us

in asserting the good/bad effects of the planets. How to predict

using this system is well depicted in texts like Varaha hora.

Why the name Trimsamsa?Why the name Trimsamsa?

-------------

Now let us come back to the question `why the name Trimsamsa

means 1/30th (i.e. 1 degree) of a sign while lords are counted for

different sets of degrees?'

The reason for this might be that the older of the two

systems is the Rasi varga system (especially Dwadesa rasi varga

system), and the names used in it were latter adopted to the

Shadvargadhipa system.

[Note the fact that in the Shadvargadhipa system, Horadhipa,

Dwadesamsadhipa and Trimsamsadhipa does not even use the rasi lords.

Even for the other vargas in this system the rasi lords might have

been selected, just for the sake of convenience. For example see the

fact that if you multiply Drekkana sputa with 3 it does not fall in

to the correct rasi, the lord of which you can select as the

Drekkanadhipa. The same is true for Dwadesamsadhipa. Only in the case

of Kshethradhipa and Navamsadhipa, the lords of Rasi varga and

Shadvarga coincide. This system, which uses vargadhipa for

prediction, does not even provide a method to derive the lords of

higher varga divisions. It becomes clear that out of the 2 systems,

it is the most unsystematic one. Therefore better go back to the

clear Dwadesa rasi varga system and try to make use of it in the

predictions and derivation of higher rasi vargas. I would like to

hear what pvr and rath has to comment on it.]

Another question that comes to mind is that why the meaning 1

Deg is dropped and the meaning (at least) 5 Deg is taken for

Trimsamsa division? The only reason I could point to is that - by the

time Shadvargadhipa system became popular the clear method for fixing

the berth time should have been lost, and to minimize the error

possibility instead of 1 Deg division 5 Deg (at least) divisions are

taken. (So that allowable error in birth time leaps from 4 minutes to

20 minutes).

If there is other possible explanations for the question on

Trimsamsa put forward by the curious learners of astrology, let me

know.

Sreenadh (from Kerala, India)

Email: sreelid

[Guest guest]

|| Gurave Namah ||

Namaste Sreenadh,

 

What you say dwadasha and shadvarga system is basically a type of

classification of various divisionals. But I dont think they are

called by the name you have given.

 

As per what I have learnt.

 

Divisionals as per computation can be categorised as Regular Cyclic

and irregular.

 

Regular is same as multiplication of Divsional Number x Sphuta. This

looks mathemetically simple. And one should not be carried away to

extrapolate. There are some Jyotishas in India who prefer to work only

on Regular divisionals.

 

Irregular Divisionals are based on certain properties identified by

Prasara and Maharishi's of the Past. Based on these we get certain

irregular charts like D3 (There are again many of this refer

Krishneeyam, Parasara etc), D2, D12, D30, D60 etc. They are based on

sound principles divined by Maharishi.

 

If one does not understand the logic, One can take 2 approaches one

ignore and dont use what one does not understand Or use with full

faith on Maharishi who handed this thru tradition.

 

 

Warm Regards

Sanjay P

 

Hare Rama Krishna

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> wrote:

> Divisions Such as Trimsamsa

> ===========================

> Before some days somebody has asked the question "Why

> Trimsamsa lords are for 5-6-7-8 degrees while the name suggest that,

> one Trimsamsa should be equal to 1/30 th of a sign (i.e. 1 Degree)".

> Let me try to answer this question.

> Initially there were 2 systems in astrology for deriving predictions

> based on divisions.

> 1) That gives importance to Rasi vargas, especially to 12 Rasi vargas

> (Dwadesa Rasi varga)

> 2) That gives importance to the lords of Rasis (signs) [This system

> was later came to be known as shadvarga, saptha varga etc]

> Let us study these 2 systems in detail.

> 1) Dwadesa Rasi varga

> ---------------------

> There should be a systematic method for the mixing of the

> characteristics of signs (Rasis) without which minute analysis is

> impossible. Thus came about the Dwadesa rasi varga

> system. 'Sphugidhvaja Hora' (An old classic on astrology) states

> that -

> "Rasau to yo dwadesa bhaga samstha

> Swai Swai phalai samkulayanthi rasim"

> Which means - signs have 12 vargas. The characteristics of

> each division (varga) of sign differ due to the inter-mixing of the

> qualities and characteristics of other signs.

> Now what is the systematic method for deriving Rasi vargas?

> While describing hora (2 fold division of rasi) 'Parasara

> hora' states that -

> "Parivrithi dwayam thesham meshade kremaso bhaveth"

> Which means - the hora division circles the zodiac 2 times,

> starting from the sign Aris.

> Putting it mathematically, we get -

> Hora = Sputa x 2

> i.e. if we multiply the longitude (planetary longitude or the

> nirayana longitude of any degree) by 2 we get the hora sputa. Thus

> first half of Aris would have the characteristics of Aris itself,

> while the second half will have the characteristics of both Aris and

> Taurus. For Taurus, the first half of it will have the

> characteristics of Taurus and Gemini, and the second will have the

> characteristics of Taurus and Cancer. It goes on like this.

> This system is true for all Rasi vargas. For example, while

> discussing Drekkana, Parasara states that -

> "Parivrithi treyam thesham meshade kremaso bhaveth"

> Which mathematically means -

> Drekkana sputa = sputa x 3

> Thus for Aris: - the first Drekkana will have the

> characteristics of Aris, while the second is a mixture of Aris and

> Taurus, and the third Drekkana will have the mixed characteristics of

> Aris and Gemini. For Taurus: - The first Drekkana will have the mixed

> characteristics of Taurus and Cancer, the second of Taurus and Leo,

> and the third of Taurus and Virgo. It goes on like this.

> Now is it a generalized system, which could be used for all

> Rasi vargas? Yes, it is!! Because in Saravali (another classic text

> of astrology), we could see the statement -

> "Legnadeenam liptha jgeya swa grihadi varga samgunitha

> Ashtadesasatha bhaktha lebdha syadeepsitho varga"

> Which means - If you multiply the sputa of the Ascendant and

> the other planets with the varga number and then divide it with 1800

> you can find out, in which sign the varga sputa will occur. Thus for -

> 4th varga (Chathurdhamsa) = sputa x 4

> 5th varga (Panchamamsa) = sputa x 5

> 6th varga (Shadamsa) = sputa x 6

> 7th varga (Sapthamsa) = sputa x 7

> 8th varga (Ashtamsa) = sputa x 8

> 9th varga (Navamsa) = sputa x 9

> 10th varga (Desamsa) = sputa x 10

> 11th varga (Ekadesamsa) = sputa x 11

> 12th varga (Dwadesamsa) = sputa x 12

> There is only 12 Signs, and as you can intermix only these 12

> Signs the important Rasi vargas are Dwadesa rasi vargas.

> But of course you can also mathematically derive other rasi

> vargas such as,

> Trimsamsa = sputa x 30

> Shodasamsa = sputa x 60 etc

> But if a clear method for mathematically asserting the

> exactness of birth time is not present, there is no point in using

> such rasi vargas. Because if there is an error of 4 minutes in birth

> time Trimsamsa will change, and if there is an error of 2 minutes

> Shodasamsa will change. (Remember also the controversy - What exactly

> is the birth-time? How to rectify it mathematically if there is an

> error of say, more than 10 minutes?)

> So much about the first system of Divisions. Now let us

> discuss the other system of divisions - namely Shadvarga system.

> 2) Shadvargadhipa system

> ------------------------

> Rather than giving importance to mixing of the

> characteristics of signs, this system gives importance to the lords

> of the signs.

> The names used are - Kshethra, Hora, Drekkana, Navamsa,

> Dwadesamsa, Trimsamsa.

> May be it is this use of same names as used in Dwadesa rasi

> vargas later caused all the confusion. The interpolation of new

> slokas (and dropping of some old slokas) both in Parasara hora and

> Saravali should have added to the trouble. Both this texts as we get

> today are not in their purest form (There are many evidences to reach

> this conclusion - which are not relevant here). What ever be the

> connected reasons let us discuss this system.

> Kshethradhipa: Lord of the sign

> Horadhipa: Lord of the 2-fold division.

> For odd sign - for 1st half it is sun

> and for the 2nd half it is moon

> For even sign - for 1st half it is

> moon and for the 2nd half it is sun.

> Drekkanadhipa: Lord of the 3-fold division

> For chara sign - lords of 1-5-9 signs

> in order.

> For sthira sign - lords of 5-9-1

> signs in order.

> For ubhaya sign - lords of 9-1-5

> signs in order.

> Navamsadhipa: Lord of the 9-fold division

> Navamsa lords of Dwadesa varga.

> Dwadesamsadhipa: Lord of 12-fold division.

> Dwadesamsa is counted from the sign of the sputa in

> which the sputa is posited.

> Trimsamsadhipa: Lords of some sets of degrees.

> For odd sign - 5 Deg (Mars), 5 Deg (Saturn), 8 Deg (Jupiter),

> 7 Deg (Mercury), 5 Deg (Venus)

> For even sign - 5 Deg (Venus), 7 Deg (Mercury), 8 Deg

> (Jupiter), 5 Deg (Saturn), 5 Deg (Mars)

> This Shadvargadhipa system, which gives importance to the

> lords of these divisions, rather than to the signs (Rasis), helps us

> in asserting the good/bad effects of the planets. How to predict

> using this system is well depicted in texts like Varaha hora.

> Why the name Trimsamsa?Why the name Trimsamsa?

> -------------

> Now let us come back to the question `why the name Trimsamsa

> means 1/30th (i.e. 1 degree) of a sign while lords are counted for

> different sets of degrees?'

> The reason for this might be that the older of the two

> systems is the Rasi varga system (especially Dwadesa rasi varga

> system), and the names used in it were latter adopted to the

> Shadvargadhipa system.

> [Note the fact that in the Shadvargadhipa system, Horadhipa,

> Dwadesamsadhipa and Trimsamsadhipa does not even use the rasi lords.

> Even for the other vargas in this system the rasi lords might have

> been selected, just for the sake of convenience. For example see the

> fact that if you multiply Drekkana sputa with 3 it does not fall in

> to the correct rasi, the lord of which you can select as the

> Drekkanadhipa. The same is true for Dwadesamsadhipa. Only in the case

> of Kshethradhipa and Navamsadhipa, the lords of Rasi varga and

> Shadvarga coincide. This system, which uses vargadhipa for

> prediction, does not even provide a method to derive the lords of

> higher varga divisions. It becomes clear that out of the 2 systems,

> it is the most unsystematic one. Therefore better go back to the

> clear Dwadesa rasi varga system and try to make use of it in the

> predictions and derivation of higher rasi vargas. I would like to

> hear what pvr and rath has to comment on it.]

> Another question that comes to mind is that why the meaning 1

> Deg is dropped and the meaning (at least) 5 Deg is taken for

> Trimsamsa division? The only reason I could point to is that - by the

> time Shadvargadhipa system became popular the clear method for fixing

> the berth time should have been lost, and to minimize the error

> possibility instead of 1 Deg division 5 Deg (at least) divisions are

> taken. (So that allowable error in birth time leaps from 4 minutes to

> 20 minutes).

> If there is other possible explanations for the question on

> Trimsamsa put forward by the curious learners of astrology, let me

> know.

> Sreenadh (from Kerala, India)

> Email: sreelid