Cn and Le Riddle ((Multiple replies) RE: New method...)

August 25, 2005

Dear Shri Raman

Yes I did mean even signs.(Oja/Yugma - Odd/even).

Suryendorvishame rÄsou same tadvipareetakam -This explains Hora

Lordships and a clue regarding nature of Horas.

The basic definition of Hora is thus based on Rashi nature(Odd/Even)

and Sun/Moon(Kroora-Saumya or Aagneya-Saumya).

Thus my doubt is can the first Hora of an Odd rashi be allotted to

an even sign without violating the above.

I am not a sanskrit scholar and cannot say for certain if parivritti

can mean exchange.Vritta is a circle and parivritti means regular

cycle is my understanding.Let scholars correct me.

RÄserdhambhavethorÄ tÄschaturvimsath smrtÄh

MeshÄdi tÄsÄm horÄnÄm parivrttidvayam bhavet

I will simply undersatnd this as follows - Two regular cycles in

order from Aries onwards constituting 24 Horas.I cannot find any

lordships or signs being mentioned here.I would seek the opinion of

learned members.

Thus lordship(or finer derivatives of the same) has to be understood

from the first shloka.What is a hora,how many are there and how it

is spanned across the rashi chakra has to be understood from the

second.

When Parashara says ''Horanaam sampadaadikam'' - There can be only

one Hora ,though numerous indications can be studied from the same

(other than wealth), as in 2nd house.Thus I do not to

various Hora charts for various puroposes.

Thus it is not a surprise ,to find proper results using Rashi chakra

and classical principles as compared to bhavas in dashamsha and all.

Pradeep

vedic astrology, "Raman Suprajarama"

<cru115@n...> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Pradeep,

>

> I did not quite understand your question. By yugma, do you mean

Gemini or

> even sign?

>

> If you meant Gemini, the first hora of Virgo maps to Gemini. Virgo

is not an

> odd sign.

>

> If you meant even signs, the first hora of Aries, Virgo and

Sagittarius map

> to even signs.

>

> Parivritti also means exchange. I feel that the cyclic method (I

think it is

> named as Parivritti Dwaya in Jagannatha Hora software) is used for

a

> different purpose.

>

> Om Tat Sat,

>

> Raman Suprajarama

>

[] On

> Behalf Of vijayadas_pradeep

> Sunday, August 21, 2005 5:37 PM

>

> Cn and Le Riddle (Re: (Multiple replies)

RE: New

> method...)

>

> Dear shri Raman

>

> If i may intervene

>

> Could you kindly confirm if first hora of an odd sign can be of

yugma

> nature.

> Is this in conformity with the principle of Krura/Saumya and

Sun/Moon

> ruling the Horas.

>

> Also Parivrithi and parivartan may be different.The second one is

> exchange.

> Also dwayam,trayam etc for Hora,Drekkana indicates repetition in

the

> cyclic order.

> Have you tried Horas with ,the cyclic understanding.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> , "Raman Suprajarama"

<cru115@n...>

> wrote:

> > Dear Sri Chandrashekar,

> >

> > "àyaejnm! - sUyRhaeraya< jataStejiSvníNÔSy haeraya< m&ÊSvÉava

ÉviNt,

> >

> > prayojanam - süryahoräyäà jätästejasvinaçcandrasya horäyäà

> mådusvabhävä

> >

> > bhavanti|"

> >

> > So at least as far as interpretation of Bhattopal goes this

(Surya as

> >

> > first horesha and Chandra as second horesha for Vishama and

reverse for

> >

> > Sama) has to do with the nature of Jataka.

> >

> > The commentary of Bhattotpala can be interpreted as "if a planet

is

> in the

> > hora of Surya, the planet will be strong (tejashwini) and if it

is

> in the

> > hora of Chandra, the planet will be mild (madhu)". Dr. Raman

applied

> this

> > sentence in the area of remedial measures. If an evil planet is

in

> the Hora

> > of Sun, the remedial measure prescribed should be very powerful

to

> ward off

> > evil doshas and if it is in the Hora of Moon, the measures

> prescribed can be

> > less powerful.

> >

> > Govindhabhattatiri, while commenting on this sloka of

Varahamihira

> writes

> > "Nishaaraashayo Nishaphaladhaah Dinaraashayo divaaphaladha iti"

> >

> > Actually

> >

> > if for Sama rasi 3rd house is considered as giving 2nd Hora,

this would

> >

> > be even more logical count being reverse and Parakrama of a

person has

> >

> > as much bearing on his wealth as his income.

> >

> > It all depends on how we interpret the word "parivruthhidwayam".

> Parivruthi

> > can mean exchange.

> >

> > Om Tat Sat,

> >

> > Raman Suprajarama

> >

> [] On

> > Behalf Of Chandrashekhar

> > Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:03 AM

> >

> > Re: Re: Cn and Le Riddle (Re: (Multiple

> replies) RE:

> > New method...)

> >

> > Dear Narasimha,

> >

> > I accept that Varahamihira said that the opinion about Rasi lord

being

> >

> > lord of the first Hora and Lord of the 11th the 2nd Hora is of

other

> >

> > Acharyas. The fact of the shloka preceding it is as you say

about first

> >

> > Hora being of Sun and second of Moon.

> >

> > Having said that, may I point out that Bhattotpal in his

commentary

> says

> >

> > about the reason of allotting First Hora to Sun and second to

Moon as:

> >

> > "àyaejnm! - sUyRhaeraya< jataStejiSvníNÔSy haeraya< m&ÊSvÉava

ÉviNt,

> >

> > prayojanam - süryahoräyäà jätästejasvinaçcandrasya horäyäà

> mådusvabhävä

> >

> > bhavanti|"

> >

> > So at least as far as interpretation of Bhattopal goes this

(Surya as

> >

> > first horesha and Chandra as second horesha for Vishama and

reverse for

> >

> > Sama) has to do with the nature of Jataka.

> >

> > Now if we relate this to what Parashara has said:

> >

> > tT]eÇ< tSy oeqSy razeyaeR ySy nayk>,

> >

> > tatkñetraà tasya kheöasya räçeryo yasya näyakaù|

> >

> > sUyeRNÖaeivR;me razaE sme tiÖprItkm!.5.

> >

> > süryendvorviñame räçau same tadviparétakam||5||

> >

> > iptríNÔhaereza deva> sUyRSy kIitRta>,

> >

> > pitaraçcandrahoreçä deväù süryasya kértitäù|

> >

> > razerÏ¡ ÉveÏaera taítuiv¡zit> Sm&ta>.

> >

> > räçerarddhaà bhaveddhorä täçcaturviàçatiù småtäù||

> >

> > me;aid tasa< haera[a< pirv&iÄÖy< Évet!.6.

> >

> > meñädi täsäà horäëäà parivåttidvayaà bhavet||6||

> >

> > Here contrary to what is interpreted it appears, at least to me

with my

> >

> > limited knowledge, what is being said is that Surya's devata

(first

> >

> > hora in Vishama rasi and second Hora of Sama rasi) is Deva and

that of

> >

> > Chandra (first Hora of Sama rasi and second Hora of Vishama

Rasi) the

> >

> > Devata is Pitara and he is talking about Parivritti dvaya Hora

clearly

> >

> > and not as Horas being lorded over by Sun and Moon for Vishama

rasi and

> >

> > the other way round for Sama rasi. So there appears to be much

> confusion

> >

> > about what Parashara has said. Many astrologers appear to

project as if

> >

> > Parashara has said first Hora in Vishama rasi belonging to rasi

of Sun

> >

> > and second to the Moon means they fall in Leo and Cancer rasis.

The

> >

> > above shloka of BPHS, does not seem to suggest that. Rather it

is said

> >

> > by Varahamihira in his Brihajjatakam. But even here Bhattotpala

> >

> > commentary gives a new direction to that and appears to be more

logical.

> >

> > Again my point is that since Parashara says one should look at

wealth

> >

> > from Hora chart and 11th house Lord being Labhesha giving one of

the

> two

> >

> > Horas of a rasi, depending on whether the Rasi is Sama or

Vishama

> >

> > appears to be more in line with areas of influence of Bhavas.

Actually

> >

> > if for Sama rasi 3rd house is considered as giving 2nd Hora,

this would

> >

> > be even more logical count being reverse and Parakrama of a

person has

> >

> > as much bearing on his wealth as his income.

> >

> > Of course what I have said may appear to be not in line with

what is

> >

> > believed to be said by Parashara to those more learned than me.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao wrote:

> >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Would you care to explain the source for mapping them to

Surya or

> >

> > > > Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I presume

is being

> >

> > > > discussed. Or are you talking about some different shloka?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > There is a verse in Brihajjatakam just before the verse you

quoted,

> >

> > > which defines the first/second horas in odd signs as Sun's and

Moon's

> >

> > > horas and reverse in even signs. Parasara also defined the same

> way in

> >

> > > BPHS.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > In fact, it is not clear that the view in the verse you quoted

below

> >

> > > is Varahamihira's. He defined the Sun/Moon based hora as if it

was

> his

> >

> > > own view and mentioned this 1st lord/11th lord based method as

if it

> >

> > > was the view of "some others". That is how Sri B. Suryanarain

Rao

> >

> > > (Raman Suprajarama's grandfather's grandfather) interpreted in

his

> >

> > > translation of Brihajjatakam. He felt that the definition

based on

> >

> > > Sun's and Moon's horas was Varahamihira's view and the other

1st/11th

> >

> > > method was that of others. Moreover, Sri Rao felt based on his

> >

> > > experience that Varahamihira was more correct.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > At SJC, we use Kashinatha Hora, which builds on the concept of

> >

> > > Sun's/Moon's horas and uses day signs and night signs.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Raman Suprajarama's innovation is to mix this approach with

the

> >

> > > 1st/11th method. His hora is identical to SJC's Kashinatha

Hora if

> all

> >

> > > planets are in the first 15 deg of signs. In the second

halves, he

> >

> > > takes the 11th. His idea is that what seem like two different

methods

> >

> > > mentioned by Varahamihira are actually one single method and

> >

> > > Varahamihira encrypted it. It is plausible. At the same time,

it is

> >

> > > debatable.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> >

> > > Narasimha

> >

> > > ------------------------------

-

> >

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> >

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> >

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >

> > > ------------------------------

-

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Dear Raman, Narasimha,

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > If I remember right Raman had referred to Varahamihira's

> Brihajjatakam

> >

> > > > as a source or inspiration for the Hora chart he proposed.

If I am

> >

> > > > right, Varahamihira says:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > keicÄu haera< àwma< ÉpSy vaÁDiNt laÉaixpteiÖRtIyam!,

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > kecittu horäà prathamäà bhapasya väïchanti

läbhädhipaterdvitéyäm|

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Ôe:ka[s<}amip v[RyiNt SvÖadzEkadzraizpanam!.12.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > dreñkäëasaïjïämapi varëayanti

svadvädaçaikädaçaräçipänäm||12||

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Here no reference to first Hora of Sun or Moon is mentioned,

if my

> >

> > > > understanding is correct, he talks about first Hora being of

the

> >

> > > Lord of

> >

> > > > the rasi and second of the 11th lord. Or rather Varahamihira

> says that

> >

> > > > some Acharyas hold that opinion.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Then there is a reference in a Vriddha Karika that:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > razerx¡ ÉveÏaera ta> ctuiv¡zit> Sm&ta>,

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > räçerardhaà bhaveddhorä täù caturviàçatiù småtäù|

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > me;aid tasa< haera[a< pirv&iÄÖy< Évet!.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > meñädi täsäà horäëäà parivåttidvayaà bhavet||

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > This means that first Hora is of Mesha in Mesha rasi second

Hora of

> >

> > > > Mesha rasi is Vrishabha and so on twice round the rasi

chakra.

> In both

> >

> > > > cases, the talk is about Rasi Hora and not about Surya or

> Chandra Hora.

> >

> > > > Therefore the reference to day or night rasi representing

Surya or

> >

> > > > Chandra is something that I am not able to follow.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Would you care to explain the source for mapping them to

Surya or

> >

> > > > Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I presume

is being

> >

> > > > discussed. Or are you talking about some different shloka?

> >

> > > > Regards,

> >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Vedic astrology

> >

> > >

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=J

> >

> yotish&w3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=-

GBj8BOzVbQ8GK9t0LYOxw>

>

> >

> > > Jyotish

> >

> > >

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=Jyotish&w

> > 3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=1Oqz8QaIYh3il4-

yFlCbRQ>

> >

> > > Vedic

> >

> > >

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=Jyotish&w3=

> >

Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=xM6K96f1bttsnwk2GGVngw>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Astrological chart

> >

> > >

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Astrological+chart&w1=Vedic+astrology&w

> >

>

2=Jyotish&w3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=MOZSSgBqBt5gcY

YsjHrS_

> > A>

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> -

-----

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > * Visit your group "

> >

> > > <>" on the web.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > *

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > <?

subject=Un>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > *

Terms of

> >

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> >

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> -

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> > >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date:

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> >

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> >

>

Links

August 26, 2005

font-family:Arial">Dear Sri Chandrashekhar,

font-family:Arial">

I would rather go

with Parivrittidwaya Hora as there is at least some uniformity in how Vargas

are drawn.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Both the Hora variation that I have come up with and Kashinatha

Hora have uniformity in them. In my humble opinion, the explanation you have

given that is Aries maps to Aries and Taurus, Taurus maps to Taurus and Gemini

and so on does not use the significance of the Sun and the Moon rulership.

Parashara and other authorities have been clear in saying that the

differentiation is based on Sun and the Moon.

font-family:Arial">

The mapping to odd

or even sign is possible in Trimshamsha chart as Sun and Moon do not rule over

any Trimshamsha, and the chart, apparently, relates to balance or imbalance of

Pancha Tatwas in human body.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">I agree. Mapping to odd and even signs is one of the variations

of Trimshamsa chart. I will write more about this on a later date. I will

restrict this mail only to Hora.

font-family:Arial">

Having said that,

I have certain thoughts on the issue, which I would like to share with you. If

we extend the logic of Hora Lagna having to do with wealth then, perhaps, the

11th rasi for Vishama rasi should be counted in regular direction and for Sama

rasi in reverse direction , this will mean the 3rd Rasi in regular order. This

would give us a more logical reason of why 11th rasi is called the second hora

by the respected Acharyas of the day. Vishama rasi is said to be Krura and

would not need valor which it has a plenty, hence it is the 11th that is the

Labha or Aya Sthana that would be involved in accumulation of wealth. In case

of Sama rasi, being Saumya, perhaps Parakrama is more the requisite for the

Jataka to accumulate wealth.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Applying this logic, I get the following planetary positions

for the chart of NT Rama Rao:

font-family:Arial">

Aries – Rahu

font-family:Arial"> Taurus – Ascendant, Sun, Moon and Jupiter

font-family:Arial"> Gemini – Mars

font-family:Arial"> Cancer – Mercury and Ketu

font-family:Arial"> Virgo – Saturn

font-family:Arial"> Aquarius – Venus

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">The 10th house has Venus indicating show

business. The 10th lord is Saturn, well placed in the 5th.

But to have a good success rate and fan following, Saturn and Venus should have

influence on each other which is not present. Also, Sun is not influencing the

10th house. He was also into politics.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Using Lahiri Ayanamsa, the planetary positions are as

follows:

font-family:Arial">

Aries – Rahu

font-family:Arial"> Taurus – Ascendant, Sun, Moon, Mercury and

Jupiter

font-family:Arial"> Gemini – Mars

font-family:Arial"> Cancer – Ketu

font-family:Arial"> Virgo – Saturn

font-family:Arial"> Aquarius – Venus

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">In my experience, I have found that the clockwise and anti-clockwise

rule is to be followed in analysis and not during calculations. Hence, I would

respectfully disagree with this thought.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">I look forward to hear you views on the chart.

font-family:Arial">

Om Tat Sat,

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Raman Suprajarama

font-family:Arial">

[]

On Behalf Of Chandrashekhar

Monday, August 22, 2005 1:59 AM

Re: RE: Cn and Le Riddle (Re: (Multiple replies) RE:

New method...)

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Dear Raman,

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">I have given the Sanskrit shlokas and the source. From the

first line

font-family:Arial">please format alternate line with Sanskrit 99 fonts and the

Sanskrit

font-family:Arial">verse will become clear to read.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">I have clearly given both Bhattotpala's interpretation of

what Varaha

font-family:Arial">Mihira says and have tried to correlate that to what Varaha

Mihira says

font-family:Arial">by "Kechittu" etc. I entirely agree with your

revered grandfather that

font-family:Arial">Varaha Mihira gave that shloka not as a passing reference

but because it

font-family:Arial">was the opinion of great astrologers of his time. It also

perhaps

font-family:Arial">indicates that Varaha Mihira was himself not comfortable

with Horas

font-family:Arial">falling in either Leo or cancer. I, too, do not accept that

Horas fall

font-family:Arial">either in Cancer or Leo. I would rather go with

Parivrittidwaya Hora as

font-family:Arial">there is at least some uniformity in how Vargas are drawn.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">At the same time I am not trying to map Hora to day or night

signs. If

font-family:Arial">that be done how would one map, say, second hora of Cancer

to the day

font-family:Arial">sign of Moon? Or the second hora of Sun to night sign of

Sun? Both of

font-family:Arial">them do not own such signs. The mapping to odd or even sign

is possible

font-family:Arial">in Trimshamsha chart as Sun and Moon do not rule over any

Trimshamsha,

font-family:Arial">and the chart, apparently, relates to balance or imbalance

of Pancha

font-family:Arial">Tatwas in human body.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Thus I think, and I may be wrong, that the first shloka of

Varaha Mihira

font-family:Arial">refers to Krura or Saumya nature of Vishama of Sama rasi

hora. this is

font-family:Arial">in line with Vishama rasi being considered Krura and Sama

rasi Saumya.

font-family:Arial">This also matches with what Parashara says, though some

interpret his

font-family:Arial">shloka in a different way. Now if we also accept the second

shloka this

font-family:Arial">becomes logical. Sama rasi will have both hora belonging to

Sama rasi

font-family:Arial">and so will Vishama Rasi have both hora belonging to Vishama

rasi.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Having said that, I have certain thoughts on the issue,

which I would

font-family:Arial">like to share with you. If we extend the logic of Hora Lagna

having to

font-family:Arial">do with wealth then, perhaps, the 11th rasi for Vishama rasi

should be

font-family:Arial">counted in regular direction and for Sama rasi in reverse

direction ,

font-family:Arial">this will mean the 3rd Rasi in regular order. This would

give us a more

font-family:Arial">logical reason of why 11th rasi is called the second hora by

the

font-family:Arial">respected Acharyas of the day. Vishama rasi is said to be

Krura and

font-family:Arial">would not need valor which it has a plenty, hence it is the

11th that is

font-family:Arial">the Labha or Aya Sthana that would be involved in

accumulation of

font-family:Arial">wealth. In case of Sama rasi, being Saumya, perhaps

Parakrama is more

font-family:Arial">the requisite for the Jataka to accumulate wealth.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">If you could draw charts of N T Ramarao and of your revered

grandfather

font-family:Arial">in this way and then apply the thumb rules given in your

article, it

font-family:Arial">would be easy to confirm whether the logic holds true.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">In the current state of Hora that you have proposed, in N T

Ramarao's

font-family:Arial">Hora chart, the thumb rules do not show the financial

position of Rao

font-family:Arial">neither his profession (2nd from Hora Asc. belongs to

Mercury and not

font-family:Arial">Venus).

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">I could construct the chart proposed by me myself, but then

there would

font-family:Arial">be the tendency to justify my theories and therefore I would

like you to

font-family:Arial">do this and let me know what is your opinion, as regards the

promise in

font-family:Arial">terms of wealth of the Jatakas.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Please let me know if I am imposing on you.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Regards,

font-family:Arial">Chandrashekhar.

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">Raman Suprajarama wrote:

font-family:Arial">

font-family:Arial">> Dear Sri Chandrashekar,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Would you care to explain the source for mapping them

to Surya or

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I

presume is being

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> discussed. Or are you talking about some different

shloka?

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Narasimha Rao has already given the source. Brihat

Jataka is one of

font-family:Arial">> the best

font-family:Arial">> classics available. Grandfather always told me that

Brihat Jataka needs to

font-family:Arial">> be mastered for its hidden meaning and not for its

direct meaning.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> BJ 1-9 states "Dreshkaanahora

font-family:Arial">> Navabhagasangnaashrimshaamshakadwadashasanghitasha

kshtetram cha

font-family:Arial">> yadyasa sa

font-family:Arial">> thasya vargo" indicating that a planet is said to

be in Varga if it is in

font-family:Arial">> its Drekkanna, Hora, Navamsa, Trimshamsa, Dwadasamsa

and Rasi.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Let us consider the planet Mars. Mars can be in its own

sign in Drekkanna,

font-family:Arial">> Navamsa, Trimshamsa, Dwadasamsa and Rasi. If we were to

consider the

font-family:Arial">> Standard Hora chart, Mars falls into either Cancer or

Leo. So it cannot be

font-family:Arial">> in Varga. The same is for other planets except Sun and

Moon. For Sun and

font-family:Arial">> Moon, the standard Hora chart works fine. But they

don't have any place in

font-family:Arial">> Trimshamsa. From this we can conclude that no planet can

be in its

font-family:Arial">> Varga, if

font-family:Arial">> we were to follow the standard ways of constructing the

Hora chart.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Perhaps, Varahamihira indicated that there are many

variations of the Hora

font-family:Arial">> chart (and Trimshamsa) in this verse.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> In the following verses he cleverly indicates about

Night strong signs and

font-family:Arial">> Day strong Signs. In addition to this, he also

indicates Prushtodaya,

font-family:Arial">> Ubhayodaya and Sirsodaya Rasis, Masculine and Feminine

signs, Fixed,

font-family:Arial">> Common

font-family:Arial">> and Movable signs. He has actually indicated how the different

font-family:Arial">> variations of

font-family:Arial">> charts can be constructed.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> For the Hora chart, we need to consider Day and Night

strong signs and for

font-family:Arial">> Trimshamsa, we need to apply a different rule. I will

write about this

font-family:Arial">> variation of Trimshamsa at a later stage.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> In verse 12, he uses the word Kaychittu. Prof. Rao in

his notes has

font-family:Arial">> mentioned that the idea could have been included as

they were given by men

font-family:Arial">> of "great reputation".

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Om Tat Sat,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Raman Suprajarama

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> []

On

font-family:Arial">> Behalf Of Chandrashekhar

font-family:Arial">> Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:32 PM

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Re: [vedic astrology] Cn and Le

Riddle (Re:

font-family:Arial">> (Multiple replies) RE: New method...)

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Dear Raman, Narasimha,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> If I remember right Raman had referred to

Varahamihira's Brihajjatakam

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> as a source or inspiration for the Hora chart he

proposed. If I am

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> right, Varahamihira says:

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> keicÄu haera< àwma< ÉpSy vaÁDiNt

laÉaixpteiÖRtIyam!,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> kecittu horäà prathamäà bhapasya väïchanti

läbhädhipaterdvitéyäm|

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Ôe:ka[s<}amip v[RyiNt SvÖadzEkadzraizpanam!.12.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> dreñkäëasaïjïämapi varëayanti svadvädaçaikädaçaräçipänäm||12||

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Here no reference to first Hora of Sun or Moon is

mentioned, if my

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> understanding is correct, he talks about first Hora

being of the Lord of

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> the rasi and second of the 11th lord. Or rather

Varahamihira says that

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> some Acharyas hold that opinion.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Then there is a reference in a Vriddha Karika that:

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> razerx¡ ÉveÏaera ta> ctuiv¡zit> Sm&ta>,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> räçerardhaà bhaveddhorä täù caturviàçatiù småtäù|

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> me;aid tasa< haera[a< pirv&iÄÖy< Évet!.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> meñädi täsäà horäëäà parivåttidvayaà bhavet||

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> This means that first Hora is of Mesha in Mesha rasi

second Hora of

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Mesha rasi is Vrishabha and so on twice round the rasi

chakra. In both

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> cases, the talk is about Rasi Hora and not about Surya

or Chandra Hora.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Therefore the reference to day or night rasi

representing Surya or

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Chandra is something that I am not able to follow.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Would you care to explain the source for mapping them

to Surya or

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I

presume is being

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> discussed. Or are you talking about some different

shloka?

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Regards,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> Chandrashekhar.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> pvr108 wrote:

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Dear Raman,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > For Sun and Moon, there are no day signs and night

signs. Hence we

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > consider

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Cancer for Moon and Leo for Sun. This ensures

consistency.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > I argue that this does not ensure consistency, but

makes things

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > highly inconsistent. You are mapping both the

halves of Vi to night

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > signs (Ge and Cn) and both the halves of Li to day

signs (Li and

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Le). This is a total collapse of the paradigm of

each sign mapped to

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > one day sign and one night sign. If the only

reason for breaking the

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > paradigm is that Sun and Moon have only sign, why

can't we combine

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > them so that there are two signs now?

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > The dichotomy of day/night is created by Sun and

Moon and the zodiac

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > is divided into two halves. Each planet except Sun

and Moon own one

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > day sign and one night sign each. The irony of

this whole thing is

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > that Sun and Moon created this whole dichotomy,

but they need to

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > combine into ONE entity in order to take part in

this dichotomy!

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > In JHora, I will give Raman Hora the way you

defined it now. After

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > all, it is your research. But I will also give a

variation based on

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > the Cn/Le change I am suggesting. Ironically, you

too had it the way

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > I like it in your original rough draft that was uploaded!

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Despite my strong reservation about your treatment

of Cn and Le, I

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > think the whole idea of combining two seemingly

disjoint statements

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > of Varahamihira into one coherent teaching is

quite brilliant and I

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > look forward to more contributions from you to the

knowledge pool of

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Jyotisha!

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Narasimha

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

-------------------------------

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

http://www.SriJagannath.org

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

-------------------------------

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > vedic astrology,

"Raman Suprajarama"

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > <cru115@n...> wrote:

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Dear Narasimha Rao,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > The idea behind hora charts is quite clear.

Sun and Moon are

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > considered as

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > different entities and that is the reason we

have Day signs and

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Night signs.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > If we were to consider Sun and Moon as same,

then the Hora charts

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > would have

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > been based on a different concept altogether.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > For Sun and Moon, there are no day signs and

night signs. Hence we

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > consider

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Cancer for Moon and Leo for Sun. This ensures

consistency. We can

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > ofcourse

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > argue that we get two Day signs and two Night

signs. But, of the

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > two

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > options, what I have written is more

consistent with the original

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > idea.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Shiva and Parvathi, in the true sense, are

actually one. But we

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > live in a

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > mortal world, where we clearly differentiate everything,

thanks to

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > our ego.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > The aspects seen in the Hora chart are

actually those which

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > strengthen the

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > desire/ego. Finance, family, etc are strong

"bond creating"

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > entities. No

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > wonder there is a differentiation between the

Sun and the Moon!

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Om Tat Sat,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Raman Suprajarama

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > vedic astrology

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > [vedic astrology] On

Behalf Of pvr108

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:00 PM

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > vedic astrology

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > [vedic astrology] Cn and Le Riddle

(Re: (Multiple

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > replies) RE: New

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > method...)

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Dear Raman,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > > Virgo Gemini Cancer

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > > Libra Libra Leo

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Thank you for correcting these two rows in

the table (in addition

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > to

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > the Scorpio row with a typo). However, I like

the original entries

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > given in the PDF file better than your

corrected entries above!

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > The whole idea was that one half of the sign

said to be Sun's hora

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > would be a day sign and the other half of the

sign said to be

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Moon's

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > hora would be a night sign. Above, you are

mapping the halves of

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > Vi

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > to Ge and Cn, BOTH NIGHT signs. Also, you are

mapping the halves

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > of

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Li to Li and Le, BOTH DAY signs. The whole

paradigm has been

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > broken!

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > According to the teachings of Parasara and

Varahamihira, clearly

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > the

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > second half of even sign Vi should be in

Sun's hora (i.e. a day

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > sign). It can't be Cn. Similarly, the second

half of odd sign Li

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > should be in Moon's hora (i.e. a night sign).

It can't be Le.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > If you switch Cn and Le in the above rows

(i.e. go back to how

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > they

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > were in the table in the PDF file), it would

adhere to the

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > paradigm.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > I find it more logical.

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > As Sun and Moon own only one sign, finding a

day/night sign owned

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > by

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > them is a problem unlike other planets.

Considering Shiva and

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Parvati to be one is the only way out. This

issue is encountered

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > so

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > many times in Jyotisha (e.g. Kalachakra

dasa).

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Warm regards,

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > >

font-family:Arial">>

font-family:Arial">> > > Narasimha

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Cn and Le Riddle ((Multiple replies) RE: New method...)

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