Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Dear friends, Namaskar! Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any "Rashis" (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! This is not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of quite a few scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal Gangadhar Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics & Astronomy) etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at HinduCalendar and some other forums. Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by Maharshi Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any other planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not later than thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth century BCE also is quite silent about Rashis! Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never celebrated any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South India, Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so on? Does it mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we are just wasting our time and money and energy? This question has two answers -- YES and NO! YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are either Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or Grahalaghava etc. Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other "Jyotishi" because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if they base them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such Sankrantis are predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis! Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they called it Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's declination really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called it the month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the month most suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the itithasas also refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find Rashis in some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana etc. but they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka Sankranti a synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the "Vedic jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either! Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is nothing but a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla Kalan" in Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day period of Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic months of Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were related to seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow, our "Vedic scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of this fact! It is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite oblivious to the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or Uttarayana was one of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously, our "Vedic scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely in any of their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities! Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later on. This also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the sun into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and Parasharas (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year? Again this question has two answers: YES and NO! The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and negative are the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic Rishis, the solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat, Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one of the most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of the Vedic month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season! Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is futile to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact an insult to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or Ramana or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that those Rishis were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and must have been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so that those Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis! Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these have been "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their predictions to the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month (twenty-four solar days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This has made everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla Paksha (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on October 4, 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of October 2, 2005, that is the real Dipavalai! We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just because our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to do so! It means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the artificial ones! For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc. With kind regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul President All India Calendar Reform Committee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and Sri Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us. I do not think any more time should be wasted on him. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote: Dear friends, Namaskar! Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any "Rashis" (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! This is not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of quite a few scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal Gangadhar Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics & Astronomy) etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at HinduCalendar and some other forums. Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by Maharshi Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any other planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not later than thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth century BCE also is quite silent about Rashis! Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never celebrated any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South India, Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so on? Does it mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we are just wasting our time and money and energy? This question has two answers -- YES and NO! YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are either Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or Grahalaghava etc. Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other "Jyotishi" because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if they base them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such Sankrantis are predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis! Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they called it Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's declination really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called it the month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the month most suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the itithasas also refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find Rashis in some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana etc. but they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka Sankranti a synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the "Vedic jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either! Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is nothing but a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla Kalan" in Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day period of Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic months of Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were related to seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow, our "Vedic scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of this fact! It is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite oblivious to the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or Uttarayana was one of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously, our "Vedic scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely in any of their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities! Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later on. This also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the sun into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and Parasharas (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year? Again this question has two answers: YES and NO! The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and negative are the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic Rishis, the solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat, Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one of the most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of the Vedic month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season! Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is futile to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact an insult to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or Ramana or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that those Rishis were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and must have been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so that those Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis! Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these have been "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their predictions to the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month (twenty-four solar days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This has made everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla Paksha (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on October 4, 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of October 2, 2005, that is the real Dipavalai! We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just because our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to do so! It means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the artificial ones! For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc. With kind regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul President All India Calendar Reform Committee Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Shri Bharatji, Namaskar! Glad that at least someone has responded! My "background" is given in "Koshur6.doc" which is already avilable on this forum! Similarly, the criteria for fixing the festivals on correct dates has been given in "BVB6.doc" and that also is available on this august forum! Would you kindly go through them and then clarify the points raised by me since we are just groping in dark otherwise! With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@g...> wrote: > Namaskaar All > > This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and Sri > Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us. > > I do not think any more time should be wasted on him. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > Namaskar! > > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any "Rashis" > > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! This is > > not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of quite a few > > scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal Gangadhar > > Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics & Astronomy) > > etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at HinduCalendar > > and some other forums. > > Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the Vedanga > > Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by Maharshi > > Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any other > > planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not later than > > thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around > > Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth century > > BCE also is quite silent about Rashis! > > Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas > > (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never celebrated > > any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South India, > > Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so on? Does it > > mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we are just > > wasting our time and money and energy? > > This question has two answers -- YES and NO! > > YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are either > > Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or Grahalaghava etc. > > Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other "Jyotishi" > > because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if they base > > them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such Sankrantis are > > predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis! > > Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate > > "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they called it > > Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's declination > > really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called it the > > month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the month most > > suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the itithasas also > > refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find Rashis in > > some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana etc. but > > they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka Sankranti a > > synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the "Vedic > > jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either! > > Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is nothing but > > a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla Kalan" in > > Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day period of > > Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic months of > > Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were related to > > seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow, our "Vedic > > scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of this fact! It > > is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite oblivious to > > the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or Uttarayana was one > > of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are > > innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously, our "Vedic > > scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely in any of > > their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities! > > Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later on. This > > also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! > > A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the sun > > into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the > > Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and Parasharas > > (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year? > > Again this question has two answers: YES and NO! > > The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and negative are > > the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic Rishis, the > > solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat, > > Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one of the > > most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of the Vedic > > month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season! > > Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is futile > > to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana > > Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact an insult > > to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or Ramana or > > Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that those Rishis > > were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and must have > > been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so that those > > Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper > > "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis! > > Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or > > lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these have been > > "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their predictions to > > the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month (twenty-four solar > > days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This has made > > everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla Paksha > > (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on October 4, > > 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of October 2, > > 2005, that is the real Dipavalai! > > We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate > > "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just because > > our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to do so! It > > means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot > > differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the artificial > > ones! > > For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc. > > With kind regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > President > > All India Calendar Reform Committee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Shri Bharatji, Namaskar! Glad that at least there is some response! My "background" is an open book and can be seen from "Koshur6.doc" available on this august forum. Similarly, regarding the real criteria of festivals, kindly go through "BVB6.doc" also avilable on this forum. We can compare notes only after you have gone through those files! I would also appreciate if you really give some cogent reasons as to how we are celebrating our festivals on correct days by subscribing to a Lahiri or Raman or Fagan Rashjichakra! With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@g...> wrote: > Namaskaar All > > This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and Sri > Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us. > > I do not think any more time should be wasted on him. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > Namaskar! > > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any "Rashis" > > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! This is > > not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of quite a few > > scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal Gangadhar > > Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics & Astronomy) > > etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at HinduCalendar > > and some other forums. > > Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the Vedanga > > Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by Maharshi > > Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any other > > planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not later than > > thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around > > Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth century > > BCE also is quite silent about Rashis! > > Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas > > (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never celebrated > > any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South India, > > Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so on? Does it > > mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we are just > > wasting our time and money and energy? > > This question has two answers -- YES and NO! > > YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are either > > Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or Grahalaghava etc. > > Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other "Jyotishi" > > because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if they base > > them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such Sankrantis are > > predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis! > > Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate > > "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they called it > > Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's declination > > really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called it the > > month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the month most > > suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the itithasas also > > refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find Rashis in > > some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana etc. but > > they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka Sankranti a > > synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the "Vedic > > jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either! > > Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is nothing but > > a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla Kalan" in > > Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day period of > > Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic months of > > Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were related to > > seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow, our "Vedic > > scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of this fact! It > > is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite oblivious to > > the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or Uttarayana was one > > of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are > > innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously, our "Vedic > > scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely in any of > > their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities! > > Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later on. This > > also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! > > A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the sun > > into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the > > Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and Parasharas > > (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year? > > Again this question has two answers: YES and NO! > > The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and negative are > > the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic Rishis, the > > solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat, > > Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one of the > > most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of the Vedic > > month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season! > > Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is futile > > to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana > > Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact an insult > > to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or Ramana or > > Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that those Rishis > > were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and must have > > been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so that those > > Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper > > "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis! > > Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or > > lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these have been > > "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their predictions to > > the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month (twenty-four solar > > days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This has made > > everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla Paksha > > (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on October 4, > > 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of October 2, > > 2005, that is the real Dipavalai! > > We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate > > "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just because > > our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to do so! It > > means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot > > differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the artificial > > ones! > > For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc. > > With kind regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > President > > All India Calendar Reform Committee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 On your persuasion, I read your article at http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm. I found your thought to be interesting. I do not believe you yet. I am also surprised at the silence of the responses you got from Jyotish group. They had given responses to each of your arguments. I am not an expert in these matters and neither can I claim to have read all the books (especially the ones you mention in your article). In the meantime, I also would like to invite you to share the comparisons that you claim you have done between the western and the prevalent hindu systems. Please show us by the way of charts. Having said that, I am yet to meet an astrologer (both hindu or western) who lays claim to 100% accuracy. The fact is, it is just not possible. I had written about it in the Jyotish Group, why predictions cannot be 100% accurate. (Please read my comments in Essence of Jyotish thread).These are in view of Purushhartha. Your raise a pointing finger at hindu astrologers of being non-Vedic. By not celebrating festivals on their "desired date by you", do they become non-vedic? I further ask you, when where these festivals celebrated in the eighteenth and the nineteenth century? Do you have documental proof of their celebration otherwise? If yes, why have you not shared it so far? To prove your point, why do you have to show the other down? What is the history of Ayanamsha? I am sure, in your researches you would have found answer to this question. Please share it with us. You claim to have read Vedas in chaste Sanskrit. What rules of Sanskrit did you use? Was Panini before Vedas or after? How do 16 sutras of Atharvana Veda make up the entire Vedic mathematics? I read it can solve complex trignometry equations - but Vedas never mentioned the word "trignometry". Should I conclude all this is made up? The reason for my email is not to say this or that is correct but asking us to think. How can we say what is correct in light of the know-how that many texts, especially that of Astrology, were destroyed by our invaders, including the prime universities at Takshashila and Nalanda? I leave the question open for other to give their views. Thanks & Regards Bharat On 9/20/05, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote: Shri Bharatji, Namaskar! Glad that at least someone has responded! My "background" is given in "Koshur6.doc" which is already avilable on this forum! Similarly, the criteria for fixing the festivals on correct dates has been given in "BVB6.doc" and that also is available on this august forum! Would you kindly go through them and then clarify the points raised by me since we are just groping in dark otherwise! With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@g...> wrote: > Namaskaar All > > This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and Sri > Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us. > > I do not think any more time should be wasted on him. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > Namaskar! > > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any "Rashis" > > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! This is > > not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of quite a few > > scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal Gangadhar > > Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics & Astronomy) > > etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at HinduCalendar > > and some other forums. > > Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the Vedanga > > Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by Maharshi > > Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any other > > planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not later than > > thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around > > Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth century > > BCE also is quite silent about Rashis! > > Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas > > (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never celebrated > > any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South India, > > Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so on? Does it > > mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we are just > > wasting our time and money and energy? > > This question has two answers -- YES and NO! > > YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are either > > Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or Grahalaghava etc. > > Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other "Jyotishi" > > because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if they base > > them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such Sankrantis are > > predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis! > > Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate > > "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they called it > > Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's declination > > really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called it the > > month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the month most > > suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the itithasas also > > refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find Rashis in > > some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana etc. but > > they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka Sankranti a > > synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the "Vedic > > jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either! > > Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is nothing but > > a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla Kalan" in > > Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day period of > > Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic months of > > Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were related to > > seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow, our "Vedic > > scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of this fact! It > > is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite oblivious to > > the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or Uttarayana was one > > of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are > > innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously, our "Vedic > > scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely in any of > > their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities! > > Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later on. This > > also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! > > A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the sun > > into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the > > Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and Parasharas > > (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year? > > Again this question has two answers: YES and NO! > > The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and negative are > > the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic Rishis, the > > solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat, > > Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one of the > > most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of the Vedic > > month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season! > > Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is futile > > to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana > > Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact an insult > > to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or Ramana or > > Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that those Rishis > > were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and must have > > been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so that those > > Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper > > "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis! > > Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or > > lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these have been > > "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their predictions to > > the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month (twenty-four solar > > days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This has made > > everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla Paksha > > (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on October 4, > > 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of October 2, > > 2005, that is the real Dipavalai! > > We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate > > "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just because > > our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to do so! It > > means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot > > differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the artificial > > ones! > > For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc. > > With kind regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > President > > All India Calendar Reform Committee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > - > > vedic astrology< vedic astrology?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Astrology chart Astrology reading Vedic astrology Divination tool Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Shri Bharatji, Namaskar! I checked once again my but I am not a member of any Jyotisha group as on date,except for this Vedic-astrology forum, nor do I remember ever having joined such group. In any case, could you kindly post all your queries, that you say remained unanswered, on "Jyotisha" forum on this forum now. Please also kindly give me the address of that forum/website and the number, date and month of your posting of that enquiry on that forum. Only after receiving your response, I shall deal with the rest of your questions since may be those questions have already been replied by me and just possible the reply was not posted on that website -- that does happen very often, if the replies are inconvenient! With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@g...> wrote: > Namaskaar Sri Avtar > > On your persuasion, I read your article at > http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm. I found your > thought to be interesting. I do not believe you yet. > > I am also surprised at the silence of the responses you got from Jyotish > group. They had given responses to each of your arguments. > > I am not an expert in these matters and neither can I claim to have read all > the books (especially the ones you mention in your article). > > In the meantime, I also would like to invite you to share the comparisons > that you claim you have done between the western and the prevalent hindu > systems. Please show us by the way of charts. > > Having said that, I am yet to meet an astrologer (both hindu or western) who > lays claim to 100% accuracy. The fact is, it is just not possible. I had > written about it in the Jyotish Group, why predictions cannot be 100% > accurate. (Please read my comments in Essence of Jyotish thread).These are > in view of Purushhartha. > > Your raise a pointing finger at hindu astrologers of being non-Vedic. By not > celebrating festivals on their "desired date by you", do they become > non-vedic? I further ask you, when where these festivals celebrated in the > eighteenth and the nineteenth century? Do you have documental proof of their > celebration otherwise? If yes, why have you not shared it so far? > > To prove your point, why do you have to show the other down? > > What is the history of Ayanamsha? I am sure, in your researches you would > have found answer to this question. Please share it with us. > > You claim to have read Vedas in chaste Sanskrit. What rules of Sanskrit did > you use? Was Panini before Vedas or after? > > How do 16 sutras of Atharvana Veda make up the entire Vedic mathematics? I > read it can solve complex trignometry equations - but Vedas never mentioned > the word "trignometry". Should I conclude all this is made up? > > The reason for my email is not to say this or that is correct but asking us > to think. How can we say what is correct in light of the know-how that many > texts, especially that of Astrology, were destroyed by our invaders, > including the prime universities at Takshashila and Nalanda? > > I leave the question open for other to give their views. > > Thanks & Regards > Bharat > > > > > > On 9/20/05, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@s...> wrote: > > > > Shri Bharatji, > > Namaskar! > > Glad that at least someone has responded! > > > > My "background" is given in "Koshur6.doc" which is already avilable on > > this forum! Similarly, the criteria for fixing the festivals on > > correct dates has been given in "BVB6.doc" and that also is available > > on this august forum! > > > > Would you kindly go through them and then clarify the points raised by > > me since we are just groping in dark otherwise! > > With regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology > > <hinduastrology@g...> wrote: > > > Namaskaar All > > > > > > This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and > > Sri > > > Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us. > > > > > > I do not think any more time should be wasted on him. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any > > "Rashis" > > > > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! > > This is > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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