A real-life example - Doubts

October 27, 2005

Example by Narasimhaji – few doubts

Dear Narasimhaji,

Your analysis of the example has left me baffled and confused and so I have put

my comments at the respective places in the discussion for your glance and

clarifications.

As my contribution, let me give one real-life practical example. The birthdata

is 1970 October 5, 12:34 pm (IST: 5:30 East of GMT), 80 E 21' 00", 15 N 49'

00". The native wanted to move from the town he was living to another town. He

asked me in July 2005 about his chances of a job change and a change of place.

He owned a home and needed to sell it.

1. I did not find 2004-05 too favorable. This is your first judgment.

I looked at the annual TP chart (soli-lunar return chart, i.e. soli-lunar

equivalent of Tajaka/varshaphal/solar return charts) of 2005-06. It is cast on

2005 October 8 at 4:53:19 am (IST) at birthplace (use my free software JHora to

make the annual TP chart - link below). In annual TP charts, we use compressed

Tithi Ashtottari dasa (available in JHora). The first dasa was of Jupiter and

it would run from Oct 8 to Nov 7.

In the rasi chart, Virgo rises and Jupiter is in Libra. Jupiter is the

badhakesha and can show a change of place. Being in the 12th from AL (arudha

lagna - tangible manifestation of self), he can show a change of place.

My doubts are:

(a).Can the ATP chart replace the Rasi chart in prediction?

(b) Can badhakesa cause auspicious change of place?

Without going into the correctness of your approach of replacing the Natal chart

with ATP to divine future, there is serious errors even in your analysis given

of the ATP chart.

(d) Can the ATP Lagna Virgo rising with Sun and Ketu under the aspect of Saturn

be treated as auspicious or harbinger of good?

(e) Further ATP Lagna had Mars in the 8th in retrogression and Moon in debiliation.

ATP Lagna had no benign aspect at all and benefics were all below the horizon.

With such a disastrous ATP2005, could you have predicted positive developments

in one’s life? At the outset you had said that I did not find 2004-05 too

favorable. How could the ATP2005 described as above made you see positive

aspects?

In the D-10 chart that shows career, Jupiter is the 10th lord in 5th. He shows

recognition and a promotion.

Here you are speaking about the D-10 of the most inauspicious ATP 2005. Have a

close look at that ATP2005_D10: Lagna is between malefics, Saturn in 2nd and

Mars in 8th, Ketu in 6th. Lord of Lagna Budha is in 6th along with debilitated

Moon and malefics. With such a D10, you are deriving the logic that 10th lord

in 5th will be auspicious?

He is the lord of A8 (mrityu pada - death/big change) and can show a big change.

But, he is in 5th from lagna and 7th from AL and does not show a layoff or

something. So he shows a positive job change. Also, he has argala on A5 and A11

and brings tangible recognition and tangible gains.

All these logics from D10 of ATP2005, you have used for predicting good

opportunity? What was your analysis based on Rasi and its D-10?

So, I predicted to him that a good opportunity will come his way in the town he

wanted to move to between Oct 8-Nov 7.

He indeed got a sudden interview call on Oct 14 and a good offer on Oct 17,

which he accepted quickly.

With your program, I had a look at the ATP2004-05 and by all known canons of

astrology, the ATP2004-05 is more auspicious than ATP2005-06 with which you

have predicted good. What are your comments on this fact?

Part - II

His next question was whether he would be able to sell the house he owned in his

current town. I saw D-4, chart to see residence. D4 of ATP2005-06?

Rasi and D4 of Rasi – not in view? As above, what about ATP2004-05?

I noted that Jupiter is the 4th lord of home in D-4 and placed in the arudha

pada of 12th house (a tangible manifestation of 12th house - loss or selling or

giving up). The arudha pada of the 4th house (i.e. house) is in Leo, 12th house.

The double link between 4th and 12th arudha and 12th and 4th arudha shows

selling house and relocating. As Jupiter is involved, I told him that he would

be able to find a byuer for his house before Nov 7. Though the real estate

market is a bit weak these days and houses are staying in the market for longer

than they used to, I was positive in his case that there was a bright chance of

selling before Nov 7. He put the house in market just a week back or so and

today he informed me that he found a buyer and signed an agreement.

§ Auspiciousness of ATP2005-06 and its D4 no relevance to the discussion? ATP

good and bad already discussed above. D4 had Kanya as Lagna with Rahu aspected

by Sun from the 7th.

Jupiter, the planet who owns 4th and occupies the arudha pada of 12th in D-4, is

the lord of 7th house and A11 in rasi chart. Thus, I told him that a friend of

his may buy the house. Apparently, the person who signed the agreement is

indeed a friend of his.

How many significators do you have for career and home?

1. Those from Rasi

2. Those from Varga

3. Those from ATP

4. Those from ATP-Varga

5. Those from Arudha of Rasi

6. Those from Arudha of Rasi-Varga

7. Those from Arudha of ATP

8. Those from Arudha of ATP-Varga

What made you reject the dasas from Rasi and use the tithi ashtothari dasa?

How many techniques given in your software form a part of the classical tradition?

If any of the parameters I used in the analysis above is unclear, you may want

to listen to the free MP3 lessons at the link given below. I covered how to use

various divisional charts, houses, arudhas etc in those lessons. I also covered

annual TP charts and the associated dasa system (Tithi Ashtottari dasa) in

those lessons.

Lastly, How relevant is a discussion on ATP and its Vargas without discussion on

the Rasi, its Varga and dasas?

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Namaste friends,

> > we see lot of discussions on theory. Where are the> > discussions on> >

actual charts and principles? Can someone please> > tell me, am i in the> >

right forum? Am i asking a valid question? Or is> > this group meant only> >

for discussing history?> >> > Atleast western astrologers discuss lot of

charts.> > Sorry for being in> > your face , but that seems to be the trend

here. I> > joined here to learn> > something, may be i should be in some other

fora.> > Dun

I understand your frustration. We had too many theoretical debates on

and too few examples of late.

If you can handle the heavy traffic of vedic astrology , you may want

to try that group too. You can find a lot of practical analysis on that group

(and a lot of noise too).

As my contribution, let me give one real-life practical example.

The birthdata is 1970 October 5, 12:34 pm (IST: 5:30 East of GMT), 80 E 21' 00", 15 N 49' 00"

The native wanted to move from the town he was living to another town. He asked

me in July 2005 about his chances of a job change and a change of place. He

owned a home and needed to sell it.

I did not find 2004-05 too favorable. I looked at the annual TP chart

(soli-lunar return chart, i.e. soli-lunar equivalent of Tajaka/varshaphal/solar

return charts) of 2005-06. It is cast on 2005 October 8 at 4:53:19 am (IST) at

birthplace (use my free software JHora to make the annual TP chart - link

below).

In annual TP charts, we use compressed Tithi Ashtottari dasa (available in

JHora). The first dasa was of Jupiter and it would run from Oct 8 to Nov 7. In

the rasi chart, Virgo rises and Jupiter is in Libra. Jupiter is the badhakesha

and can show a change of place. Being in the 12th from AL (arudha lagna -

tangible manifestation of self), he can show a change of place.

In the D-10 chart that shows career, Jupiter is the 10th lord in 5th. He shows

recognition and a promotion. He is the lord of A8 (mrityu pada - death/big

change) and can show a big change. But, he is in 5th from lagna and 7th from AL

and does not show a layoff or something. So he shows a positive job change.

Also, he has argala on A5 and A11 and brings tangible recognition and tangible

gains.

So, I predicted to him that a good opportunity will come his way in the town he

wanted to move to between Oct 8-Nov 7.

He indeed got a sudden interview call on Oct 14 and a good offer on Oct 17,

which he accepted quickly.

His next question was whether he would be able to sell the house he owned in his

current town. I saw D-4, chart to see residence. I noted that Jupiter is the 4th

lord of home in D-4 and placed in the arudha pada of 12th house (a tangible

manifestation of 12th house - loss or selling or giving up). The arudha pada of

the 4th house (i.e. house) is in Leo, 12th house. The double link between 4th

and 12th arudha and 12th and 4th arudha shows selling house and relocating. As

Jupiter is involved, I told him that he would be able to find a byuer for his

house before Nov 7. Though the real estate market is a bit weak these days and

houses are staying in the market for longer than they used to, I was positive

in his case that there was a bright chance of selling before Nov 7. He put the

house in market just a week back or so and today he informed me that he found a

buyer and signed an agreement.

Jupiter, the planet who owns 4th and occupies the arudha pada of 12th in D-4, is

the lord of 7th house and A11 in rasi chart. Thus, I told him that a friend of

his may buy the house. Apparently, the person who signed the agreement is

indeed a friend of his.

If any of the parameters I used in the analysis above is unclear, you may want

to listen to the free MP3 lessons at the link given below. I covered how to use

various divisional charts, houses, arudhas etc in those lessons. I also covered

annual TP charts and the associated dasa system (Tithi Ashtottari dasa) in

those lessons.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

-------------------------------Free Jyotish

lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software

(Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

http://www.SriJagannath.org-------------------------------Do

You ?

November 8, 2005

Namaste friends,

When someone complained about too much theoretical discussion, I gave a

real-life example in which some precise predictions I gave someone came true.

Even that led to theorization and theoretical critique. The following mail

slipped from my attention a few weeks back. Somebody forwarded it to me and let

me try to address some points in it.

> (a).Can the ATP chart replace the Rasi chart in prediction?

The natal chart shows the entire life. But, if one uses a wrong or imperfect

dasa system, it is easy to err in timing events. I am far more comfortable with

ATP (annual Tithi Pravesha) charts as they are focussed on a one year period and

are easier to judge. Whenever I have just a few minutes to spare and have to

give a quick reading, I rely on ATP charts. And I am quite pleased with their

reliability.

> (b) Can badhakesa cause auspicious change of place?

Yes, there are references in classics. Narayan Iyer produced a nice paper on it sometime back.

> © Arudha in ATP is as relevant as in Rasi?

Of course, yes. To me anyway. Arudha padas of houses show what manifests in a

tangible way. That is as relevant in ATP charts.

> (d) Can the ATP Lagna Virgo rising with Sun and Ketu under

> the aspect of Saturn be treated as auspicious or harbinger of good?

Sun in lagna with Ketu and under Saturn's aspect is not at all good. I did warn

the native about one specific misfortune that is possible in the year and

suggested a remedy too.

> (e) Further ATP Lagna had Mars in the 8th in retrogression and Moon in debiliation.

Mars in 8th in moolatrikona isn't bad at all. From AL (arudha lagna,

manifestation of self, i.e. tangible aspects of self, including status and

image), Mars is in 6th and shows great success and overcoming all obstacles.

Natural malefics in 6th from AL give material success.

Though Moon is in debility, he is with Venus in 3rd. Moon and Venus in 3rd in AL

show good status and image during the year and good for financial gains. Venus

is the 9th lord and Moon is in the 11th lord. Their conjunction in an upachaya

from lagna and in AL is (was) in my judgment excellent for material status.

> ATP Lagna had no benign aspect at all and benefics were all below

> the horizon. With such a disastrous ATP2005, could you have

> predicted positive developments in one’s life?

Mars in 8th in 6th from AL, Moon and Venus in AL, conjunction of A9 and A10

(bhagya pada and rajya pada), aspected by two benefics giving a raja yoga

(Jupiter and Mercury) - all these made me think it was going to a good year.

Only Sun's eclipse in lagna made me predict one misfortune. Moreover, if you

see D-10, you'll see several nice combinations that made me predict to this

native a few months back that this lunar year would start with a good

opportunity.

> Here you are speaking about the D-10 of the most inauspicious

> ATP 2005. Have a close look at that ATP2005_D10: Lagna is

> between malefics, Saturn in 2nd and Mars in 8th, Ketu in 6th.

> Lord of Lagna Budha is in 6th along with debilitated Moon and

> malefics. With such a D10, you are deriving the logic that 10th

> lord in 5th will be auspicious?

First of all, ATP 2005 is not "most inauspicious". Secondly, Saturn is not in

2nd. I don't know what ayanamsa you use. With Lahiri ayanamsa, Saturn is with

Venus in 3rd, giving an excellent raja yoga. Moreover, the raja yoga is in 5th

from AL and shows recognition.

Out of the 4 planets in 6th, only Moon is a benefic. Others are malefics.

Conjunction of malefics in 6th is good.

All these are adding to the placement of 10th lord 5th (in 7th from AL).

> With your program, I had a look at the ATP2004-05 and by

> all known canons of astrology, the ATP2004-05 is more auspicious

> than ATP2005-06 with which you have predicted good. What are

> your comments on this fact?

Sir, this is not a "fact", but your subjective judgment. In my judgment, ATP

2005-06 is a lot better than ATP 2004-05.

Look at rasi of ATP 2004-05. Lagna has badhaka lord and 8th lord in marana

karaka sthana in it. Lagna lord is eclipsed by Ketu. The 9th lord of fortune,

Jupiter, is in marana karaka sthana in 3rd. Ruler of the year is Saturn, who is

the 8th lord and is in marana karaka sthana in lagna.

Now look at the rasi chart of ATP 2005-06. Though lagna is afflicted, lagna lord

and ruler of the year Mercury is in well-placed in 2nd and gives a raja yoga

with Jupiter. AL has a nice combination.

Look at D-10 of ATP 2004-05. The 4th house of happiness has 8th lord Mer5cury.

The 9th lord Moon is in marana karaka sthana in 8th. The 5th lored of

recognition is in 8th. The 4th lord (comfort) Rahu is in marana karaka sthana.

I fail to see why you think it is good.

In contrast, D-10 of ATP 2005-06 has lagna lord Mercury well-placed in 6th. The

10th lord is in 5th. The 5th lord joins 9th lord in the 5th from AL.

Based on all the canons of Jyotish t6hat *I* know and use, the year 2004-05

shows dissatisfaction, unhappiness and frustration and the year 2005-06 shows

fortune and good breaks. The year 2004 was indeed like that and the year 2005

started very nicely.

The native got a job offer in the week that I had predicted months in advance

and he sold his house pretty quickly, in the 2 weeks that I predicted and to a

friend as I predicted. To those who may be interested in this case further,

another prediction I had made was that he would buy a new house in the town he

moved to during Venus TA dasa (2005 Dec 16-2006 Feb 24). Whether this too comes

true or not remains to be seen. But those interested can easily see why I made

that prediction. Use D-4.

First, you said you had some "doubts". Then you passed a judgment that I made

"serious errors" and passed several harsh and possibly hasty judgments. If you

just want to disprove my approach, there is no point in arguing with you. I

replied because throwing some additional light on how I was thinking when I

made these judgments in real-time and made these predictions can be useful to

those who want to learn from this example.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

-------------------------------Free Jyotish

lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software

(Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

http://www.SriJagannath.org-------------------------------

> Example by Narasimhaji – few doubts> > > > Dear Narasimhaji, > > > > Your

analysis of the example has left me baffled and confused and so I have put my

comments at the respective places in the discussion for your glance and

clarifications. > > > > As my contribution, let me give one real-life

practical example. The birthdata is 1970 October 5, 12:34 pm (IST: 5:30 East

of GMT), 80 E 21' 00", 15 N 49' 00". The native wanted to move from the town he

was living to another town. He asked me in July 2005 about his chances of a job

change and a change of place. He owned a home and needed to sell it. > > > >

1. I did not find 2004-05 too favorable. This is your first judgment. > > > >

I looked at the annual TP chart (soli-lunar return chart, i.e. soli-lunar

equivalent of Tajaka/varshaphal/solar return charts) of 2005-06. It is cast on

2005 October 8 at 4:53:19 am (IST) at birthplace (use my free software JHora to

make the annual TP chart - link below). In annual TP charts, we use compressed

Tithi Ashtottari dasa (available in JHora). The first dasa was of Jupiter and

it would run from Oct 8 to Nov 7.> > > > In the rasi chart, Virgo rises and

Jupiter is in Libra. Jupiter is the badhakesha and can show a change of place.

Being in the 12th from AL (arudha lagna - tangible manifestation of self), he

can show a change of place.> > > > My doubts are: > > > > (a).Can the ATP

chart replace the Rasi chart in prediction? > > (b) Can badhakesa cause

auspicious change of place? > > © Arudha in ATP is as relevant as in Rasi? >

> > > Without going into the correctness of your approach of replacing the

Natal chart with ATP to divine future, there is serious errors even in your

analysis given of the ATP chart. > > > > (d) Can the ATP Lagna Virgo rising

with Sun and Ketu under the aspect of Saturn be treated as auspicious or

harbinger of good? > > (e) Further ATP Lagna had Mars in the 8th in

retrogression and Moon in debiliation. > > > > ATP Lagna had no benign aspect

at all and benefics were all below the horizon. With such a disastrous ATP2005,

could you have predicted positive developments in one’s life? At the outset you

had said that I did not find 2004-05 too favorable. How could the ATP2005

described as above made you see positive aspects? > > > > In the D-10 chart

that shows career, Jupiter is the 10th lord in 5th. He shows recognition and a

promotion. > > > > Here you are speaking about the D-10 of the most

inauspicious ATP 2005. Have a close look at that ATP2005_D10: Lagna is between

malefics, Saturn in 2nd and Mars in 8th, Ketu in 6th. Lord of Lagna Budha is in

6th along with debilitated Moon and malefics. With such a D10, you are deriving

the logic that 10th lord in 5th will be auspicious? > > > > He is the lord of

A8 (mrityu pada - death/big change) and can show a big change. But, he is in

5th from lagna and 7th from AL and does not show a layoff or something. So he

shows a positive job change. Also, he has argala on A5 and A11 and brings

tangible recognition and tangible gains.> > > > All these logics from D10

of ATP2005, you have used for predicting good opportunity? What was your

analysis based on Rasi and its D-10? > > > > So, I predicted to him that a

good opportunity will come his way in the town he wanted to move to between Oct

8-Nov 7.> > > > He indeed got a sudden interview call on Oct 14 and a good

offer on Oct 17, which he accepted quickly.> > > > With your program, I had

a look at the ATP2004-05 and by all known canons of astrology, the ATP2004-05 is

more auspicious than ATP2005-06 with which you have predicted good. What are

your comments on this fact? > > > Part - II> > > His next question was

whether he would be able to sell the house he owned in his current town. I saw

D-4, chart to see residence. D4 of ATP2005-06?> > > > Rasi and D4 of Rasi –

not in view? As above, what about ATP2004-05?> > > > I noted that Jupiter is

the 4th lord of home in D-4 and placed in the arudha pada of 12th house (a

tangible manifestation of 12th house - loss or selling or giving up). The

arudha pada of the 4th house (i.e. house) is in Leo, 12th house. The double

link between 4th and 12th arudha and 12th and 4th arudha shows selling house

and relocating. As Jupiter is involved, I told him that he would be able to

find a byuer for his house before Nov 7. Though the real estate market is a bit

weak these days and houses are staying in the market for longer than they used

to, I was positive in his case that there was a bright chance of selling before

Nov 7. He put the house in market just a week back or so and today he informed

me that he found a buyer and signed an agreement.> > > > § Auspiciousness of

ATP2005-06 and its D4 no relevance to the discussion? ATP good and bad already

discussed above. D4 had Kanya as Lagna with Rahu aspected by Sun from the 7th.

> > > > Jupiter, the planet who owns 4th and occupies the arudha pada of 12th

in D-4, is the lord of 7th house and A11 in rasi chart. Thus, I told him that a

friend of his may buy the house. Apparently, the person who signed the agreement

is indeed a friend of his.> > > > How many significators do you have for

career and home? > > > > 1. Those from Rasi> > 2. Those from Varga> > 3.

Those from ATP> > 4. Those from ATP-Varga> > 5. Those from Arudha of Rasi> >

6. Those from Arudha of Rasi-Varga> > 7. Those from Arudha of ATP> > 8.

Those from Arudha of ATP-Varga> > > > What made you reject the dasas from

Rasi and use the tithi ashtothari dasa? > How many techniques given in your

software form a part of the classical tradition? > > > > If any of the

parameters I used in the analysis above is unclear, you may want to listen to

the free MP3 lessons at the link given below. I covered how to use various

divisional charts, houses, arudhas etc in those lessons. I also covered annual

TP charts and the associated dasa system (Tithi Ashtottari dasa) in those

lessons.> > > > Lastly, How relevant is a discussion on ATP and its Vargas

without discussion on the Rasi, its Varga and dasas? > > > > May Jupiter's

light shine on us, > > > > > > Narasimha> >

-------------------------------> > > > >

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote:Namaste friends,> > > > we see lot of

discussions on theory. Where are the> > > discussions on> > > actual charts and

principles? Can someone please> > > tell me, am i in the> > > right forum? Am i

asking a valid question? Or is> > > this group meant only> > > for discussing

history?> > >> > > Atleast western astrologers discuss lot of charts.> > >

Sorry for being in> > > your face , but that seems to be the trend here. I> > >

joined here to learn> > > something, may be i should be in some other fora.> > >

Dun> > I understand your frustration. We had too many theoretical debates on

and too few examples of late.> > If you can handle the heavy

traffic of vedic astrology , you may want to try that group too. You

can find a lot of practical analysis on that group (and a lot of noise too).>

> As my contribution, let me give one real-life practical example.> > The

birthdata is 1970 October 5, 12:34 pm (IST: 5:30 East of GMT), 80 E 21' 00",

15 N 49' 00"> > The native wanted to move from the town he was living to

another town. He asked me in July 2005 about his chances of a job change and a

change of place. He owned a home and needed to sell it.> > I did not find

2004-05 too favorable. I looked at the annual TP chart (soli-lunar return

chart, i.e. soli-lunar equivalent of Tajaka/varshaphal/solar return charts) of

2005-06. It is cast on 2005 October 8 at 4:53:19 am (IST) at birthplace (use my

free software JHora to make the annual TP chart - link below).> > In annual TP

charts, we use compressed Tithi Ashtottari dasa (available in JHora). The first

dasa was of Jupiter and it would run from Oct 8 to Nov 7. In the rasi chart,

Virgo rises and Jupiter is in Libra. Jupiter is the badhakesha and can show a

change of place. Being in the 12th from AL (arudha lagna - tangible

manifestation of self), he can show a change of place.> > In the D-10 chart

that shows career, Jupiter is the 10th lord in 5th. He shows recognition and a

promotion. He is the lord of A8 (mrityu pada - death/big change) and can show a

big change. But, he is in 5th from lagna and 7th from AL and does not show a

layoff or something. So he shows a positive job change. Also, he has argala on

A5 and A11 and brings tangible recognition and tangible gains.> > So, I

predicted to him that a good opportunity will come his way in the town he

wanted to move to between Oct 8-Nov 7.> > He indeed got a sudden interview

call on Oct 14 and a good offer on Oct 17, which he accepted quickly.> > His

next question was whether he would be able to sell the house he owned in his

current town. I saw D-4, chart to see residence. I noted that Jupiter is the

4th lord of home in D-4 and placed in the arudha pada of 12th house (a tangible