Guest guest Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Dear Sreenadh, Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at least... You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and tradition that inspired me. The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I have to move on. * * * This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views on transits in divisional charts. Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it took him down. Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are going to be depleted. When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. * * * This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha -------------------------------Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org------------------------------- > Namaste Paditji,> Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is all > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas.> Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D-> charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well.> Love,> Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Plus the clear indications of there being houses and drishtis from karakamsha (BPHS) and drishtis between sun, mercury and venus (Saravali) also indicate that classics were talking about varga charts and not just vargas! I have recently uploaded an article, probably here too in the files that gives more details. RR vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh, > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at least... > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and tradition that inspired me. > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I have to move on. > > * * * > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views on transits in divisional charts. > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it took him down. > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are going to be depleted. > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. > > * * * > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Namaste Paditji, > > Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is all > > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas. > > Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D- > > charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Dear Narasimha As far as I am aware there is no function in Jhora to show the degrees of planets in divisionals. Is this in the pipeline? It would be excellent for researcher purposes. With best wishes Kasim "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> vedic astrologyTo: "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology>, <>Subject: [vedic astrology] Laughing at divisional transitsSat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500 Dear Sreenadh, Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at least... You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and tradition that inspired me. The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I have to move on. * * * This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views on transits in divisional charts. Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it took him down. Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are going to be depleted. When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. * * * This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha -------------------------------Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org------------------------------- > Namaste Paditji,> Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is all > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas.> Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D-> charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well.> Love,> SreenadhArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Astrology chart Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Want to get more out of e-mail? Then get Outlook Live! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 hope you have the 7.02 version yasodaKasim Khan <kasim_ch (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: HARE RAMA KRSNA Dear Narasimha As far as I am aware there is no function in Jhora to show the degrees of planets in divisionals. Is this in the pipeline? It would be excellent for researcher purposes. With best wishes Kasim "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> vedic astrologyTo: "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology>, <>Subject: [vedic astrology] Laughing at divisional transitsSat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500 Dear Sreenadh, Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at least... You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and tradition that inspired me. The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I have to move on. * * * This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views on transits in divisional charts. Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it took him down. Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are going to be depleted. When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. * * * This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha -------------------------------Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org------------------------------- > Namaste Paditji,> Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is all > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas.> Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D-> charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well.> Love,> SreenadhArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Astrology chart Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Want to get more out of e-mail? Then get Outlook Live! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 yasoda krsna <yasodakrsna > vedic astrologyTo: vedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Laughing at divisional transitsSun, 6 Nov 2005 07:12:12 -0800 (PST) Dear Mr Khan, right click on window where it says longiude for rasi and then the 3rd option will give you option to select the divisional chart for which you want the longitudes hope you have the 7.02 version yasodaKasim Khan <kasim_ch (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: HARE RAMA KRSNA Dear Narasimha As far as I am aware there is no function in Jhora to show the degrees of planets in divisionals. Is this in the pipeline? It would be excellent for researcher purposes. With best wishes Kasim "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> vedic astrologyTo: "Vedic Astrology Group" <vedic astrology>, <>Subject: [vedic astrology] Laughing at divisional transitsSat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500 Dear Sreenadh, Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at least... You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and tradition that inspired me. The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I have to move on. * * * This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views on transits in divisional charts. Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it took him down. Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are going to be depleted. When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. * * * This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha -------------------------------Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org------------------------------- > Namaste Paditji,> Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is all > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas.> Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D-> charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well.> Love,> SreenadhArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Astrology chart Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Want to get more out of e-mail? Then get Outlook Live! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology The new version of Messenger is here - download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! 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Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Dear PVR, > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it > to nadi texts. Of course you are right. Not only Nadi texts but also many books like Presnamarga also speaks about transit through the Navamsa, as well as through rasis from the Navamsa rasi (Not only for Moon but for many other planets as well). But the truth you should understand is that, when the vargas are considered as the part of Natal chart itself, Navamsa rasi indicates a rasi of the natal chart, and the texts are referring to that, and not to any Navamsa chakra. It is very clear when you look at such slokas. Please don't misinterpret such slokas. Look at this sloka of Presnamarga- Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee- Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhake Rasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaH Puthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi (Presnamargam 19-87) Meaning, When Ju is transiting through the following 8 *Rasis* (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are- 1) The sign in which the 5th is posited. 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited 3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited. 4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited. 5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited. 6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited. 7) The sign in which Mandi is posited. 8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited. Look at this sloka, it clearly indicates that the perticular sign and Navamsa-sign are counted from Lagna. If one known Sanskrit one cannot interpret this sloka in any other way!! You don't have to look for some unseen nadi references; there are hundreds of such slokas in authentic texts!! Now coming to your reference: > My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. Well...I don't know about it. It is something between you and your guru. Can you quote an authentic reference? that is my only question. I cannot believe in everything your guru says, since he is not my guru. He may have some reference, so please ask him, and if you get any such sloka stating the same, please inform us, so that we could also satisfy ourselves by seeing such an authentic quote. > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. Again, please provide us with the quote - only that makes sense. If you have such an authentic reference we are ready to accept your argument. > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. Which tradition? Even the scholars of previous generations had written texts on astrology. Can you give any such references? Not transistors notes - but original quotes. > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable > to you. No! PVR ji, it is not so!! I respect you and your efforts. I was just pointing to a logical error you have made!! That doesn't mean that I am against all of your ideas. Just look around and see, why I am getting support from scholars like Finn, Panditji and Surya Rao? Why I am able to quote many slokas that supports the original views (It is not my views), while you are unable to provide even a minimum number of slokas? I would never say that you should drop your views, but please give the necessary respect the authentic views demand. It is my humble plea. > I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. Yes, similarly we (all of us who are after the classics) understand and respect your views as well; we are just against the fact that 'you are not giving the essential respect the Varga concept demands'. (For e.g. you have not included it in your JHora software, and is against it). None of can take as much effort as you did for Jyothisha, especially considering how you rewarded the astrology community with the JHora software. Yes, these are my sincere words - coming from the heart. > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I > have to move on. Yes, we understand. But really you are behind none, and above all considering your contribution to astrology and its popularity. My sincere apologies if any of my words hurt you in any manner. I am just talking against a concept and not against a person. ********** ********** After stating this much, I am not ready to comment on the example provided by you. Go on in your research path, we appreciate, but sincerely our views differ. > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Yes, I accept, and don't want to comment on it, as I may hurt you. > Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. > Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. No, man...Don't take it personally. As you said, "It is just research", and our views may differ. Let us take it with sportsman spirit and join hands. Sincerely "I love your efforts". Now also I may continue to criticize your views, but my plea is, please don't take it personally. And as an elder person, please correct me when my criticisms are crossing boundaries against you or anybody else. We all are part of a single brethren, and are after the truth of astrology. Love, Sreenadh Message: 10 Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500 "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr Laughing at divisional transits Dear Sreenadh, Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at least... You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and tradition that inspired me. The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I have to move on. * * * This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views on transits in divisional charts. Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it took him down. Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are going to be depleted. When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. * * * This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c ....> wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh, > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at least... > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and tradition that inspired me. > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and I have to move on. > > * * * > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views on transits in divisional charts. > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7: 12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it took him down. > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are going to be depleted. > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. > > * * * > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Namaste Paditji, > > Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is all > > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas. > > Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D- > > charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Dear Rohini, In your words: > How can you laugh 'at' something or someone and still manage to end > your posts with 'love'? I am not criticizing PVR, but the concept of D-charts. Please, don't twist it. Yes, as you said he posts my messages, and will continue to do so, since HE IS SINCERE to the subject he is dealing with. You may take time to understand it. . We DON'T have any personal quarrel. As clearly stated by PVR, Vedic astrology forum is for astrological research and NOT for making propaganda for ANY special theories. If you cannot understand the views of me or PVR, just forget it!!! > Or was it love just for some ;-) Yes, you have your poison intact. ;-). Why hide? Spell it out. > Plus the clear indications of there being houses and drishtis from > karakamsha (BPHS) and drishtis between sun, mercury and venus > (Saravali) also indicate that classics were talking about varga > charts and not just vargas! Poor!!! What you are talking about? The controversy is whether to follow Vargas or D-charts. And what you are speaking about? Love, Sreenadh Message: 12 Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:44:32 -0000 "rohiniranjan" <rrgb Re: Throwing away rasi chart? (To Narasimha.) Sreenad ji, I am curious about something :-) How can you laugh 'at' something or someone and still manage to end your posts with 'love'? Or was it love just for some ;-) RR Message: 11 Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:38:38 -0000 "rohiniranjan" <rrgb Re: Laughing at divisional transits Plus the clear indications of there being houses and drishtis from karakamsha (BPHS) and drishtis between sun, mercury and venus (Saravali) also indicate that classics were talking about varga charts and not just vargas! I have recently uploaded an article, probably here too in the files that gives more details. RR vedic astrology, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > > Plus the clear indications of there being houses and drishtis from > karakamsha (BPHS) and drishtis between sun, mercury and venus > (Saravali) also indicate that classics were talking about varga > charts and not just vargas! I have recently uploaded an article, > probably here too in the files that gives more details. > > RR > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@c...> wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least... > > > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. > > > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me. > > > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that > that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be > taken. > > > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets > in transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to > conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. > > > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very > little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. > > > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I > share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds > them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in > Jyotish is over and I have to move on. > > > > * * * > > > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my > views on transits in divisional charts. > > > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, > 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") > > > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at > 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in > navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. > Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When > Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa > longitude of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. > > > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit > close to it took him down. > > > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to > power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No > other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half > aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. > > > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 > were bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. > More importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa > chart! Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings > are going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which > blessings are going to be depleted. > > > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by > transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. > > > > * * * > > > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given > by classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome > to do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- > > > > > Namaste Paditji, > > > Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > > > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > > > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is > all > > > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas. > > > Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > > > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > > > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D- > > > charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 Dear All, I have prepared my previous mail to PVR in a hurry, and because of that made a mistake in the translation of the quote supplied. My apologies. Here is the correct translation. Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee- Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhake Rasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaH Puthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi (Presnamarga 19-87) [When Ju is transiting through 5th and 9th of the following *Rasis* (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are- 1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited 3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited. 4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited. 5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited. 6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited. 7) The sign in which Mandi is posited. 8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited. Apart from the above conditions, especially, when Ju is transiting through the sign in which Ju has more bindus in Ashtavarga, then also birth of child is possible. All these possibilities should be considered while thinking about the time in which the qurent may have children] This sloka clearly indicates some laws applied in general: 1) While considering transit in navamsa, or considering transit in rasi, the particular navamsa-sign and sign are counted from Lagna (Natal Asc). 2) Transit in Vargas is nothing but the transit of planets through the Natal chart. (i.e. Not transit in D-charts/Varga_charts is mentioned in this sloka) 3) Since all the slokas that describe transit in Vargas shows this trend, transit in D-charts is unsupported by classics. (Of course, I am not against using them on an experimental basis (like the one PVR's research trend shows) as a *new technique unsupported by classics*) There are hundreds of such slokas in authentic texts, which shows that transit in Vargas should be considered from natal Asc (Legna) only, as per classics. I am ready to supply any number of slokas to prove the same. Again I apologize to everybody for the mistake committed due to my inattention/carelessness in the translation given earlier. Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> wrote: > > Dear PVR, > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal > Moon in > > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > > to nadi texts. > Of course you are right. Not only Nadi texts but also many books > like Presnamarga also speaks about transit through the Navamsa, as > well as through rasis from the Navamsa rasi (Not only for Moon but for > many other planets as well). But the truth you should understand is > that, when the vargas are considered as the part of Natal chart > itself, Navamsa rasi indicates a rasi of the natal chart, and the > texts are referring to that, and not to any Navamsa chakra. > It is very clear when you look at such slokas. Please don't > misinterpret such slokas. Look at this sloka of Presnamarga- > Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee- > Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhake > Rasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaH > Puthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi > (Presnamargam 19-87) > Meaning, When Ju is transiting through the following 8 *Rasis* > (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are- > 1) The sign in which the 5th is posited. > 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited > 3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited. > 4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited. > 5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited. > 6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited. > 7) The sign in which Mandi is posited. > 8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited. > Look at this sloka, it clearly indicates that the perticular sign > and Navamsa-sign are counted from Lagna. If one known Sanskrit one > cannot interpret this sloka in any other way!! You don't have to look > for some unseen nadi references; there are hundreds of such slokas in > authentic texts!! > Now coming to your reference: > > My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. > Well...I don't know about it. It is something between you and your > guru. Can you quote an authentic reference? that is my only question. > I cannot believe in everything your guru says, since he is not my > guru. He may have some reference, so please ask him, and if you get > any such sloka stating the same, please inform us, so that we could > also satisfy ourselves by seeing such an authentic quote. > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception > when > > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. > Again, please provide us with the quote - only that makes sense. If > you have such an authentic reference we are ready to accept your > argument. > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. > Which tradition? Even the scholars of previous generations had > written texts on astrology. Can you give any such references? Not > transistors notes - but original quotes. > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > > to you. > No! PVR ji, it is not so!! I respect you and your efforts. I was > just pointing to a logical error you have made!! That doesn't mean > that I am against all of your ideas. Just look around and see, why I > am getting support from scholars like Finn, Panditji and Surya Rao? > Why I am able to quote many slokas that supports the original views > (It is not my views), while you are unable to provide even a minimum > number of slokas? I would never say that you should drop your views, > but please give the necessary respect the authentic views demand. It > is my humble plea. > > I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful. > Yes, similarly we (all of us who are after the classics) understand > and respect your views as well; we are just against the fact that 'you > are not giving the essential respect the Varga concept demands'. (For > e.g. you have not included it in your JHora software, and is against > it). None of can take as much effort as you did for Jyothisha, > especially considering how you rewarded the astrology community with > the JHora software. Yes, these are my sincere words - coming from the > heart. > > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over > and I > > have to move on. > Yes, we understand. But really you are behind none, and above all > considering your contribution to astrology and its popularity. My > sincere apologies if any of my words hurt you in any manner. I am just > talking against a concept and not against a person. > ********** > ********** > After stating this much, I am not ready to comment on the example > provided by you. Go on in your research path, we appreciate, but > sincerely our views differ. > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > > classics and tradition. > Yes, I accept, and don't want to comment on it, as I may hurt you. > > Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. > > Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. > No, man...Don't take it personally. As you said, "It is just > research", and our views may differ. Let us take it with sportsman > spirit and join hands. Sincerely "I love your efforts". Now also I may > continue to criticize your views, but my plea is, please don't take it > personally. And as an elder person, please correct me when my > criticisms are crossing boundaries against you or anybody else. We all > are part of a single brethren, and are after the truth of astrology. > Love, > Sreenadh > > Message: 10 > Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500 > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> > Laughing at divisional transits > > Dear Sreenadh, > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least... > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort > to any misrepresentation regarding classics. > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me. > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken. > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying > the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it > stands on the foundation given by previous works. > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful. > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and > I > have to move on. > > * * * > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views > on transits in divisional charts. > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, > 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 > November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. > To > me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa > chart. > Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by > planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn > transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they > seem > to enhance and deplete the blessings. > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's > natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it > took > him down. > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this > longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, > Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other > planets had > a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 > of > navamsa. > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa > shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be > destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are > going > to be depleted. > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the > navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit > planets in rasi, we can often find important events. > > * * * > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do > so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c > ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least... > > > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics. > > > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me. > > > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that > that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be > taken. > > > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to > conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu. > > > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very > little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works. > > > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I > share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds > them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in > Jyotish is over and I have to move on. > > > > * * * > > > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my > views on transits in divisional charts. > > > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7: > 12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00") > > > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at > 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in > navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. > Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When > Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude > of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings. > > > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close > to it took him down. > > > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to > power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No > other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half > aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa. > > > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are > going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which > blessings are going to be depleted. > > > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by > transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events. > > > > * * * > > > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so. > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- > > > > > Namaste Paditji, > > > Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > > > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > > > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is > all > > > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas. > > > Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > > > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > > > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D- > > > charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 See how many signs are involved even if we consider Rasi alone. It can be more than 8 if we take AVmax sign of Guru also. Some of these features may coincide in one rasi. Even then Guru's tranist through 5 - 6 signs can give children. Guru in one position aspects 3 signs. So at any time if we consider all signs that is said below 1 to 8 some "Putra_Rasi" will be under the influence of Guru. I think this is something all can understand. Under this predicament, just imagine someone applies such formulae to Vargas treated as independent. Guru shall cause children in all rasis? Then how shall one predict? Postmortem will be wonderful. We must do research but research must be methodical and intelligent. I am sorry if I am wrong in the above perception. I have few more doubts - If someone says that aspects and transits are applicable to Navamsa, then what about Kendra_Trikona positions? Rajayoga have been predicted in respect of what - Rasi or other Vargas? Or you say everywhere there are Rajayogas and have equal strengths? A planet is beneficial for the native based on Lagna - is it? Can that change in the case of Varga where Lagna may be different? See for Kanya Lagna is Mars is dire malefic and so it will be for the native. Now say Kanya has navamsa in Leo. Shall malefics Mars become benevolent for spouse? 4. How the strength is attributed in Varga_Bala calculations – Rasi is more important and contributes more strength than other Vargas? If yes why? Surya Rao 1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2)The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.Sreenadh <sreelid > wrote: Dear All,I have prepared my previous mail to PVR in a hurry, and because of that made a mistake in the translation of the quote supplied. My apologies. Here is the correct translation.Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee-Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhakeRasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaHPuthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi(Presnamarga 19-87)[When Ju is transiting through 5th and 9th of the following *Rasis* (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are-1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.Apart from the above conditions, especially, when Ju is transiting through the sign in which Ju has more bindus in Ashtavarga, then also birth of child is possible. All these possibilities should be considered while thinking about the time in which the qurent may have children] This sloka clearly indicates some laws applied in general:1) While considering transit in navamsa, or considering transit in rasi, the particular navamsa-sign and sign are counted from Lagna (Natal Asc). 2) Transit in Vargas is nothing but the transit of planets through the Natal chart. (i.e. Not transit in D-charts/Varga_charts is mentioned in this sloka)3) Since all the slokas that describe transit in Vargas shows this trend, transit in D-charts is unsupported by classics. (Of course, I am not against using them on an experimental basis (like the one PVR's research trend shows) as a *new technique unsupported by classics*)There are hundreds of such slokas in authentic texts, which shows that transit in Vargas should be considered from natal Asc (Legna) only, as per classics. I am ready to supply any number of slokas to prove the same. Again I apologize to everybody for the mistake committed due to my inattention/carelessness in the translation given earlier.Love,Sreenadhvedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> wrote:>> Dear PVR,> > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal > Moon in > > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > > to nadi texts. > Of course you are right. Not only Nadi texts but also many books > like Presnamarga also speaks about transit through the Navamsa, as > well as through rasis from the Navamsa rasi (Not only for Moon but for > many other planets as well). But the truth you should understand is > that, when the vargas are considered as the part of Natal chart > itself, Navamsa rasi indicates a rasi of the natal chart, and the > texts are referring to that, and not to any Navamsa chakra.> It is very clear when you look at such slokas. Please don't > misinterpret such slokas. Look at this sloka of Presnamarga-> Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee-> Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhake> Rasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaH> Puthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi> (Presnamargam 19-87)> Meaning, When Ju is transiting through the following 8 *Rasis* > (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are-> 1) The sign in which the 5th is posited. > 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited> 3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.> 4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.> 5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.> 6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.> 7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.> 8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.> Look at this sloka, it clearly indicates that the perticular sign > and Navamsa-sign are counted from Lagna. If one known Sanskrit one > cannot interpret this sloka in any other way!! You don't have to look > for some unseen nadi references; there are hundreds of such slokas in > authentic texts!!> Now coming to your reference:> > My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken.> Well...I don't know about it. It is something between you and your > guru. Can you quote an authentic reference? that is my only question. > I cannot believe in everything your guru says, since he is not my > guru. He may have some reference, so please ask him, and if you get > any such sloka stating the same, please inform us, so that we could > also satisfy ourselves by seeing such an authentic quote.> > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception > when > > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> Again, please provide us with the quote - only that makes sense. If > you have such an authentic reference we are ready to accept your > argument.> > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition.> Which tradition? Even the scholars of previous generations had > written texts on astrology. Can you give any such references? Not > transistors notes - but original quotes.> > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > > to you.> No! PVR ji, it is not so!! I respect you and your efforts. I was > just pointing to a logical error you have made!! That doesn't mean > that I am against all of your ideas. Just look around and see, why I > am getting support from scholars like Finn, Panditji and Surya Rao? > Why I am able to quote many slokas that supports the original views > (It is not my views), while you are unable to provide even a minimum > number of slokas? I would never say that you should drop your views, > but please give the necessary respect the authentic views demand. It > is my humble plea.> > I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful.> Yes, similarly we (all of us who are after the classics) understand > and respect your views as well; we are just against the fact that 'you > are not giving the essential respect the Varga concept demands'. (For > e.g. you have not included it in your JHora software, and is against > it). None of can take as much effort as you did for Jyothisha, > especially considering how you rewarded the astrology community with > the JHora software. Yes, these are my sincere words - coming from the > heart. > > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over > and I > > have to move on.> Yes, we understand. But really you are behind none, and above all > considering your contribution to astrology and its popularity. My > sincere apologies if any of my words hurt you in any manner. I am just > talking against a concept and not against a person.> **********> **********> After stating this much, I am not ready to comment on the example > provided by you. Go on in your research path, we appreciate, but > sincerely our views differ.> > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > > classics and tradition. > Yes, I accept, and don't want to comment on it, as I may hurt you.> > Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. > > Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> No, man...Don't take it personally. As you said, "It is just > research", and our views may differ. Let us take it with sportsman > spirit and join hands. Sincerely "I love your efforts". Now also I may > continue to criticize your views, but my plea is, please don't take it > personally. And as an elder person, please correct me when my > criticisms are crossing boundaries against you or anybody else. We all > are part of a single brethren, and are after the truth of astrology.> Love,> Sreenadh> > Message: 10 > Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500> "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...>> Laughing at divisional transits> > Dear Sreenadh,> > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least...> > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort > to any misrepresentation regarding classics.> > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me.> > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken.> > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying > the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it > stands on the foundation given by previous works.> > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful. > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and > I > have to move on.> > * * *> > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views > on transits in divisional charts.> > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, > 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00")> > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 > November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. > To > me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa > chart. > Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by > planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn > transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they > seem > to enhance and deplete the blessings.> > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's > natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it > took > him down.> > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this > longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, > Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other > planets had > a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 > of > navamsa.> > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa > shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be > destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are > going > to be depleted.> > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the > navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit > planets in rasi, we can often find important events.> > * * *> > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do > so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha> > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c> ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh,> > > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least...> > > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics.> > > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me.> > > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that > that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be > taken.> > > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to > conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> > > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very > little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works.> > > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I > share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds > them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in > Jyotish is over and I have to move on.> > > > * * *> > > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my > views on transits in divisional charts.> > > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:> 12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00")> > > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at > 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in > navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. > Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When > Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude > of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings.> > > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close > to it took him down.> > > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to > power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No > other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half > aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa.> > > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are > going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which > blessings are going to be depleted.> > > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by > transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events.> > > > * * *> > > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > > Namaste Paditji,> > > Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > > > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > > > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is > all > > > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas.> > > Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > > > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > > > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D-> > > charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well.> > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> >> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 om namo bhagavate vasudevaya Dear Sri Surya Rao, Will 'tad-amsa-ke' always be interpreted as navamsa? When will other vargas come into the picture? Incidentally, I agree with your fundamental doubt that if all those rules are applied they cover almost all signs implying that pregnancy can happen anytime and does not depend on transits!!! To the questions you raise, I have views to offer: 1. Kendra and trikona positions are also applicable. See the dictum of Parasara on the calculation of strength. You will find a clear dictum on the use of kendra in vargas. 2. Awaiting a respose from others on this...very good question/point. 3. Yes. Good and bad happen in every dasa, and it is not always that bad must happen in every field of life. For example if Mars is giving a negative indication in the rasi chart as the 8th lord then it hampers health and energy and indicates a difficult period and if in the navamsa it is a yogakaraka and is well placed then these problems will not be felt in marriage. If it is also 8th lord in say another varga then in that varga the negative effects will be surely felt. 4. Are you sure that the rasi has the most important position or strength in Varga strength (Vimsopaka bala) calculation? I thought it was the shastyamsa D60 chart which has the maximum weightage. Please check and get back. This is really basic. With best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * * - Surya Rao vedic astrology Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:18 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Laughing at divisional transits Dear Sreenadh, See how many signs are involved even if we consider Rasi alone. It can be more than 8 if we take AVmax sign of Guru also. Some of these features may coincide in one rasi. Even then Guru's tranist through 5 - 6 signs can give children. Guru in one position aspects 3 signs. So at any time if we consider all signs that is said below 1 to 8 some "Putra_Rasi" will be under the influence of Guru. I think this is something all can understand. Under this predicament, just imagine someone applies such formulae to Vargas treated as independent. Guru shall cause children in all rasis? Then how shall one predict? Postmortem will be wonderful. We must do research but research must be methodical and intelligent. I am sorry if I am wrong in the above perception. I have few more doubts - If someone says that aspects and transits are applicable to Navamsa, then what about Kendra_Trikona positions? Rajayoga have been predicted in respect of what - Rasi or other Vargas? Or you say everywhere there are Rajayogas and have equal strengths? A planet is beneficial for the native based on Lagna - is it? Can that change in the case of Varga where Lagna may be different? See for Kanya Lagna is Mars is dire malefic and so it will be for the native. Now say Kanya has navamsa in Leo. Shall malefics Mars become benevolent for spouse? 4. How the strength is attributed in Varga_Bala calculations – Rasi is more important and contributes more strength than other Vargas? If yes why? Surya Rao 1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2)The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.Sreenadh <sreelid > wrote: Dear All,I have prepared my previous mail to PVR in a hurry, and because of that made a mistake in the translation of the quote supplied. My apologies. Here is the correct translation.Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee-Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhakeRasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaHPuthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi(Presnamarga 19-87)[When Ju is transiting through 5th and 9th of the following *Rasis* (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are-1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.Apart from the above conditions, especially, when Ju is transiting through the sign in which Ju has more bindus in Ashtavarga, then also birth of child is possible. All these possibilities should be considered while thinking about the time in which the qurent may have children] This sloka clearly indicates some laws applied in general:1) While considering transit in navamsa, or considering transit in rasi, the particular navamsa-sign and sign are counted from Lagna (Natal Asc). 2) Transit in Vargas is nothing but the transit of planets through the Natal chart. (i.e. Not transit in D-charts/Varga_charts is mentioned in this sloka)3) Since all the slokas that describe transit in Vargas shows this trend, transit in D-charts is unsupported by classics. (Of course, I am not against using them on an experimental basis (like the one PVR's research trend shows) as a *new technique unsupported by classics*)There are hundreds of such slokas in authentic texts, which shows that transit in Vargas should be considered from natal Asc (Legna) only, as per classics. I am ready to supply any number of slokas to prove the same. Again I apologize to everybody for the mistake committed due to my inattention/carelessness in the translation given earlier.Love,Sreenadhvedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> wrote:>> Dear PVR,> > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal > Moon in > > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > > to nadi texts. > Of course you are right. Not only Nadi texts but also many books > like Presnamarga also speaks about transit through the Navamsa, as > well as through rasis from the Navamsa rasi (Not only for Moon but for > many other planets as well). But the truth you should understand is > that, when the vargas are considered as the part of Natal chart > itself, Navamsa rasi indicates a rasi of the natal chart, and the > texts are referring to that, and not to any Navamsa chakra.> It is very clear when you look at such slokas. Please don't > misinterpret such slokas. Look at this sloka of Presnamarga-> Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee-> Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhake> Rasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaH> Puthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi> (Presnamargam 19-87)> Meaning, When Ju is transiting through the following 8 *Rasis* > (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are-> 1) The sign in which the 5th is posited. > 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited> 3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.> 4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.> 5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.> 6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.> 7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.> 8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.> Look at this sloka, it clearly indicates that the perticular sign > and Navamsa-sign are counted from Lagna. If one known Sanskrit one > cannot interpret this sloka in any other way!! You don't have to look > for some unseen nadi references; there are hundreds of such slokas in > authentic texts!!> Now coming to your reference:> > My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken.> Well...I don't know about it. It is something between you and your > guru. Can you quote an authentic reference? that is my only question. > I cannot believe in everything your guru says, since he is not my > guru. He may have some reference, so please ask him, and if you get > any such sloka stating the same, please inform us, so that we could > also satisfy ourselves by seeing such an authentic quote.> > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception > when > > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> Again, please provide us with the quote - only that makes sense. If > you have such an authentic reference we are ready to accept your > argument.> > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition.> Which tradition? Even the scholars of previous generations had > written texts on astrology. Can you give any such references? Not > transistors notes - but original quotes.> > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > > to you.> No! PVR ji, it is not so!! I respect you and your efforts. I was > just pointing to a logical error you have made!! That doesn't mean > that I am against all of your ideas. Just look around and see, why I > am getting support from scholars like Finn, Panditji and Surya Rao? > Why I am able to quote many slokas that supports the original views > (It is not my views), while you are unable to provide even a minimum > number of slokas? I would never say that you should drop your views, > but please give the necessary respect the authentic views demand. It > is my humble plea.> > I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful.> Yes, similarly we (all of us who are after the classics) understand > and respect your views as well; we are just against the fact that 'you > are not giving the essential respect the Varga concept demands'. (For > e.g. you have not included it in your JHora software, and is against > it). None of can take as much effort as you did for Jyothisha, > especially considering how you rewarded the astrology community with > the JHora software. Yes, these are my sincere words - coming from the > heart. > > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over > and I > > have to move on.> Yes, we understand. But really you are behind none, and above all > considering your contribution to astrology and its popularity. My > sincere apologies if any of my words hurt you in any manner. I am just > talking against a concept and not against a person.> **********> **********> After stating this much, I am not ready to comment on the example > provided by you. Go on in your research path, we appreciate, but > sincerely our views differ.> > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > > classics and tradition. > Yes, I accept, and don't want to comment on it, as I may hurt you.> > Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. > > Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> No, man...Don't take it personally. As you said, "It is just > research", and our views may differ. Let us take it with sportsman > spirit and join hands. Sincerely "I love your efforts". Now also I may > continue to criticize your views, but my plea is, please don't take it > personally. And as an elder person, please correct me when my > criticisms are crossing boundaries against you or anybody else. We all > are part of a single brethren, and are after the truth of astrology.> Love,> Sreenadh> > Message: 10 > Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500> "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...>> Laughing at divisional transits> > Dear Sreenadh,> > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least...> > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort > to any misrepresentation regarding classics.> > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me.> > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken.> > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying > the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it > stands on the foundation given by previous works.> > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful. > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and > I > have to move on.> > * * *> > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views > on transits in divisional charts.> > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, > 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00")> > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 > November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. > To > me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa > chart. > Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by > planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn > transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they > seem > to enhance and deplete the blessings.> > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's > natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it > took > him down.> > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this > longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, > Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other > planets had > a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 > of > navamsa.> > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa > shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be > destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are > going > to be depleted.> > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the > navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit > planets in rasi, we can often find important events.> > * * *> > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do > so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha> > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c> ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh,> > > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least...> > > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics.> > > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me.> > > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that > that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be > taken.> > > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to > conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> > > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very > little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works.> > > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I > share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds > them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in > Jyotish is over and I have to move on.> > > > * * *> > > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my > views on transits in divisional charts.> > > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:> 12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00")> > > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at > 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in > navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. > Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When > Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude > of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings.> > > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close > to it took him down.> > > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to > power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No > other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half > aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa.> > > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are > going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which > blessings are going to be depleted.> > > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by > transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events.> > > > * * *> > > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > > Namaste Paditji,> > > Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > > > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > > > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is > all > > > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas.> > > Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > > > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > > > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D-> > > charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well.> > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> >> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 I am giving my comments below in respect of the points you have mentioned. Sanjay Rath <guruji (AT) srath (DOT) com> wrote: om namo bhagavate vasudevaya Dear Sri Surya Rao, Will 'tad-amsa-ke' always be interpreted as navamsa? When will other vargas come into the picture? that depends on the context that the author addresses. But general use that is found in texts refer to navamsa by amsa. So unless otherwise stated mostly it is taken as navamsa. If your question is in respect of different meanings possible, the basic meaning of amsa in Jyotihsastra is 'bhaga' or degree. Incidentally, I agree with your fundamental doubt that if all those rules are applied they cover almost all signs implying that pregnancy can happen anytime and does not depend on transits!!! When you agree on this aspect, how do you advocate the use of independent Vargas, ATPs, Arudha in varga, Arudha in ATPs, Rajayoga in Vargas etc All this will lead to a situation of chaos in Jyotisha where anything and everything can be justified if not with Rasi with some Varga or ATP or Annual Tajaka or some Dasa, Vimsottari, Kalachakra, Narayana in rasi or if it fails from some Varga. It is in this context I had raised other questions. I must thank you for concurring with my view in this regard. To the questions you raise, I have views to offer: 1. Kendra and trikona positions are also applicable. See the dictum of Parasara on the calculation of strength. You will find a clear dictum on the use of kendra in vargas. Irrespective of what Parasara says in some isolated verse of a spurious text like BPH, we must look with objectivity as to the consequences of such conceptions. Question comes only if you uphold that Vargas are independent. I have already refuted the independence of Vargas in my posting and I am awaiting some response. 2. Awaiting a respose from others on this...very good question/point. 3. Yes. Good and bad happen in every dasa, and it is not always that bad must happen in every field of life. For example if Mars is giving a negative indication in the rasi chart as the 8th lord then it hampers health and energy and indicates a difficult period and if in the navamsa it is a yogakaraka and is well placed then these problems will not be felt in marriage. If it is also 8th lord in say another varga then in that varga the negative effects will be surely felt. Here again you are taking Varga as independent. There cannot be any independent Varga characterization for Planets as the benevolence or malevolence the planets derive from the rising point - Lagna of Rasi. I have already explained the irrationality of treating Lagna_Navamsa as Lagna for anything. There is only one Lagna in a Kundali and that is the rising point over East which renders the Karmic qualities to the chart and its associated parameters. If for Aries_Lagna with Navamsa in Libra, there is no Libra rising and any extrapolation of the Rasi concepts to other Vargas is an unscientific step. 4. Are you sure that the rasi has the most important position or strength in Varga strength (Vimsopaka bala) calculation? I thought it was the shastyamsa D60 chart which has the maximum weightage. Please check and get back. This is really basic. Please check as to how I had raised that point. If I remember correctly, I had raised a question mark as I had a doubt. Anyway I will have a detailed look at the rationale of Vargabala and will give my view. Not only this is basic all the aspects that we have discussed are basic. It is the spurious research that is polluting the basics and confuses the students. You may have a look at the Kunda_kriya as is being shown in some SJC docs. Prasnamarga is quoted as the source but the method explained is something different. Prasnamarga, Ch. V, verse 8 says that Kundalagam has to be Janmatara or Anujanma tara and as such it must be linked to Moon. But now under research such basic rules have been misinterpreted without giving the rationale of research and verification achieved. I am thankful for your agreement mentioned at the outset and I hope that we will be able to have more fruitful exchange of views in future. Surya Rao With best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * * - Surya Rao vedic astrology Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:18 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Laughing at divisional transits Dear Sreenadh, See how many signs are involved even if we consider Rasi alone. It can be more than 8 if we take AVmax sign of Guru also. Some of these features may coincide in one rasi. Even then Guru's tranist through 5 - 6 signs can give children. Guru in one position aspects 3 signs. So at any time if we consider all signs that is said below 1 to 8 some "Putra_Rasi" will be under the influence of Guru. I think this is something all can understand. Under this predicament, just imagine someone applies such formulae to Vargas treated as independent. Guru shall cause children in all rasis? Then how shall one predict? Postmortem will be wonderful. We must do research but research must be methodical and intelligent. I am sorry if I am wrong in the above perception. I have few more doubts - If someone says that aspects and transits are applicable to Navamsa, then what about Kendra_Trikona positions? Rajayoga have been predicted in respect of what - Rasi or other Vargas? Or you say everywhere there are Rajayogas and have equal strengths? A planet is beneficial for the native based on Lagna - is it? Can that change in the case of Varga where Lagna may be different? See for Kanya Lagna is Mars is dire malefic and so it will be for the native. Now say Kanya has navamsa in Leo. Shall malefics Mars become benevolent for spouse? 4. How the strength is attributed in Varga_Bala calculations – Rasi is more important and contributes more strength than other Vargas? If yes why? Surya Rao 1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2)The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.Sreenadh <sreelid > wrote: Dear All,I have prepared my previous mail to PVR in a hurry, and because of that made a mistake in the translation of the quote supplied. My apologies. Here is the correct translation.Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee-Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhakeRasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaHPuthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi(Presnamarga 19-87)[When Ju is transiting through 5th and 9th of the following *Rasis* (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are-1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.Apart from the above conditions, especially, when Ju is transiting through the sign in which Ju has more bindus in Ashtavarga, then also birth of child is possible. All these possibilities should be considered while thinking about the time in which the qurent may have children] This sloka clearly indicates some laws applied in general:1) While considering transit in navamsa, or considering transit in rasi, the particular navamsa-sign and sign are counted from Lagna (Natal Asc). 2) Transit in Vargas is nothing but the transit of planets through the Natal chart. (i.e. Not transit in D-charts/Varga_charts is mentioned in this sloka)3) Since all the slokas that describe transit in Vargas shows this trend, transit in D-charts is unsupported by classics. (Of course, I am not against using them on an experimental basis (like the one PVR's research trend shows) as a *new technique unsupported by classics*)There are hundreds of such slokas in authentic texts, which shows that transit in Vargas should be considered from natal Asc (Legna) only, as per classics. I am ready to supply any number of slokas to prove the same. Again I apologize to everybody for the mistake committed due to my inattention/carelessness in the translation given earlier.Love,Sreenadhvedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> wrote:>> Dear PVR,> > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal > Moon in > > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > > to nadi texts. > Of course you are right. Not only Nadi texts but also many books > like Presnamarga also speaks about transit through the Navamsa, as > well as through rasis from the Navamsa rasi (Not only for Moon but for > many other planets as well). But the truth you should understand is > that, when the vargas are considered as the part of Natal chart > itself, Navamsa rasi indicates a rasi of the natal chart, and the > texts are referring to that, and not to any Navamsa chakra.> It is very clear when you look at such slokas. Please don't > misinterpret such slokas. Look at this sloka of Presnamarga-> Puthresasrithabhe thadamsakagrahe mandyasritharkshe thadee-> Yamsarkshe cha thadha trikonabhavaneshvesham cha bahvakhake> Rasou swashtakavargake cha vicharan jeevo bhavel puthradaH> Puthesoathra vichinthyatham himakarallegnachcha jeevadapi> (Presnamargam 19-87)> Meaning, When Ju is transiting through the following 8 *Rasis* > (Signs) the qurent may have children. The *Rasis* (Signs) are-> 1) The sign in which the 5th is posited. > 2) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited> 3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.> 4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.> 5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.> 6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.> 7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.> 8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited.> Look at this sloka, it clearly indicates that the perticular sign > and Navamsa-sign are counted from Lagna. If one known Sanskrit one > cannot interpret this sloka in any other way!! You don't have to look > for some unseen nadi references; there are hundreds of such slokas in > authentic texts!!> Now coming to your reference:> > My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken.> Well...I don't know about it. It is something between you and your > guru. Can you quote an authentic reference? that is my only question. > I cannot believe in everything your guru says, since he is not my > guru. He may have some reference, so please ask him, and if you get > any such sloka stating the same, please inform us, so that we could > also satisfy ourselves by seeing such an authentic quote.> > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception > when > > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> Again, please provide us with the quote - only that makes sense. If > you have such an authentic reference we are ready to accept your > argument.> > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition.> Which tradition? Even the scholars of previous generations had > written texts on astrology. Can you give any such references? Not > transistors notes - but original quotes.> > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > > to you.> No! PVR ji, it is not so!! I respect you and your efforts. I was > just pointing to a logical error you have made!! That doesn't mean > that I am against all of your ideas. Just look around and see, why I > am getting support from scholars like Finn, Panditji and Surya Rao? > Why I am able to quote many slokas that supports the original views > (It is not my views), while you are unable to provide even a minimum > number of slokas? I would never say that you should drop your views, > but please give the necessary respect the authentic views demand. It > is my humble plea.> > I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful.> Yes, similarly we (all of us who are after the classics) understand > and respect your views as well; we are just against the fact that 'you > are not giving the essential respect the Varga concept demands'. (For > e.g. you have not included it in your JHora software, and is against > it). None of can take as much effort as you did for Jyothisha, > especially considering how you rewarded the astrology community with > the JHora software. Yes, these are my sincere words - coming from the > heart. > > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over > and I > > have to move on.> Yes, we understand. But really you are behind none, and above all > considering your contribution to astrology and its popularity. My > sincere apologies if any of my words hurt you in any manner. I am just > talking against a concept and not against a person.> **********> **********> After stating this much, I am not ready to comment on the example > provided by you. Go on in your research path, we appreciate, but > sincerely our views differ.> > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > > classics and tradition. > Yes, I accept, and don't want to comment on it, as I may hurt you.> > Those who want to benefit from it welcome to do so. > > Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> No, man...Don't take it personally. As you said, "It is just > research", and our views may differ. Let us take it with sportsman > spirit and join hands. Sincerely "I love your efforts". Now also I may > continue to criticize your views, but my plea is, please don't take it > personally. And as an elder person, please correct me when my > criticisms are crossing boundaries against you or anybody else. We all > are part of a single brethren, and are after the truth of astrology.> Love,> Sreenadh> > Message: 10 > Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:09:21 -0500> "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...>> Laughing at divisional transits> > Dear Sreenadh,> > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least...> > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort > to any misrepresentation regarding classics.> > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me.> > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in > *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it > to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that that idea > existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be taken.> > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use > such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to conception when > Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying > the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very little and it > stands on the foundation given by previous works.> > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that > seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable > to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I share my > views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds them > useful. > The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in Jyotish is over and > I > have to move on.> > * * *> > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my views > on transits in divisional charts.> > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, > 7:12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00")> > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 > November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at 17Sg41. > To > me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in navamsa > chart. > Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. Navamsas occupied by > planets show the blessings carried by them. When Jupiter or Saturn > transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude of a planet, they > seem > to enhance and deplete the blessings.> > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's > natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close to it > took > him down.> > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this > longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to power, > Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No other > planets had > a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half aspect from 2Cp48 > of > navamsa.> > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa > shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are going to be > destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which blessings are > going > to be depleted.> > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the > navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by transit > planets in rasi, we can often find important events.> > * * *> > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do > so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha> > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c> ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh,> > > > Regarding classics supporting "vargas" but not "varga charts", we > clearly have a different view and let us leave it at that. For now at > least...> > > > You are most welcome to "laugh at" my researches on transits in > divisional charts. I clearly said they were my researches and did not > resort to any misrepresentation regarding classics.> > > > However, I need to give some credits to existing literature and > tradition that inspired me.> > > > The idea of looking at the houses occupied by transit planets in > kshetra (rasi) chakra with respect to the sign occupied by natal Moon > in *navamsa* is not mine. Sri CS Patel mentions it in a book and > attributes it to nadi texts. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath also told me that > that idea existed in tradition and that even dasamsa Moon could be > taken.> > > > Secondly, the idea of looking at the navamsas occupied by planets in > transit and their interaction with natal rasi chart is also not my > original idea. Some principles attributed by Maharshi Bhrigu in > tradition use such transit analysis. Even Maharshi Jaimini refers to > conception when Sun transits the amsa containing Ketu.> > > > Thus, amsa transits were mentioned in tradition. I have only > generalized it, included aspects and included divisional longitudes > for studying the closeness of aspects. Thus, my contribution is very > little and it stands on the foundation given by previous works.> > > > Of course, when your perspective and mine are so different, things > that seem obvious, exciting and inspiring to me may seem silly and > laughable to you. I fully understand that and respect your views. I > share my views thinking that there may be someone out there who finds > them useful. The Mother hasn't yet made me feel that my work in > Jyotish is over and I have to move on.> > > > * * *> > > > This is not for Sreenadh and for others who don't "laugh at" my > views on transits in divisional charts.> > > > Take the chart of Rajiv Gandhi. His birthdata is: 1944 August 20, 7:> 12:45 am (72 E 49' 00", 18 N 58' 00")> > > > When he took office as India's prime Minister on 1984 October 31, > Jupiter was transiting in the 16th degree of Sg. When he lost office > on 1989 November 24, Saturn was transiting around the same place, at > 17Sg41. To me, it is interesting that natal Mercury is at 17Sg10 in > navamsa chart. Mercury is AK and the 10th lord of dasamsa chart. > Navamsas occupied by planets show the blessings carried by them. When > Jupiter or Saturn transit in rasi chart close to the navamsa longitude > of a planet, they seem to enhance and deplete the blessings.> > > > It is interesting to me that Jupiter's rasi transit clkose to > Mercury's natal navamsa longitude made him PM and Saturn transit close > to it took him down.> > > > Now look at Mars. He is yoga karaka in rasi chart and 5th lord in > dasmasa. In rasi chart, he is at 1Vi13. Let us see transits close to > this longitude in navamsa and dasamsa charts. When he ascended to > power, Jupiter had a close aspect on it from 1Ta40 of dasamsa. No > other planets had a close aspect. Or, we can say Venus also had half > aspect from 2Cp48 of navamsa.> > > > On the contrary, when he lost power, yogas and aspects on 1Vi13 were > bad. Saturn was transiting nearby at 9Vi10 in navamsa chart. More > importantly, Rahu was transiting at exactly 1Vi10 in navamsa chart! > Navamsa shows blessings and Rahu navamsa shows which blessings are > going to be destroyed/eclipsed and Saturn's navamsa shows which > blessings are going to be depleted.> > > > When the rasi chart positions of key natal planets are closely > occupied/aspected by transit planets in navamsa/other amsas and when > the navamsas of key natal planets are closely occupied/aspected by > transit planets in rasi, we can often find important events.> > > > * * *> > > > This is just research, though it is based on the foundation given by > classics and tradition. Those who want to benefit from it welcome to > do so. Those who want to laugh at it are also welcome to do so.> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > > Namaste Paditji,> > > Those after the D-charts (like PVR etc) say that Transit can be > > > interpreted in D-charts as well. What classical references they > > > have?!!!! NO!!!NOTHING!!! If it is D-charts or Varga_charts it is > all > > > the same. Classics supports the use of ONLY Vargas.> > > Now comming to their theory of transit in D-charts/Varga charts. > > > Here is some interesting notes. By me, and some by Surya Rao. His > > > mail inspired me, and made me laugh at the "Transit theory on D-> > > charts". That is why I am reproducing it as well.> > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> >> FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2005 Report Share Posted November 8, 2005 om namo bhagavate vasudevaya Dear Sri Surya Rao, Comments belowWith best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * * I am giving my comments below in respect of the points you have mentioned. Sanjay Rath <guruji (AT) srath (DOT) com> wrote: om namo bhagavate vasudevaya Dear Sri Surya Rao, Will 'tad-amsa-ke' always be interpreted as navamsa? When will other vargas come into the picture? that depends on the context that the author addresses. But general use that is found in texts refer to navamsa by amsa. So unless otherwise stated mostly it is taken as navamsa. If your question is in respect of different meanings possible, the basic meaning of amsa in Jyotihsastra is 'bhaga' or degree. Rath: That still does not answer the basic question. When will other vargas come into the picture. Incidentally, I agree with your fundamental doubt that if all those rules are applied they cover almost all signs implying that pregnancy can happen anytime and does not depend on transits!!! When you agree on this aspect, how do you advocate the use of independent Vargas, ATPs, Arudha in varga, Arudha in ATPs, Rajayoga in Vargas etc All this will lead to a situation of chaos in Jyotisha where anything and everything can be justified if not with Rasi with some Varga or ATP or Annual Tajaka or some Dasa, Vimsottari, Kalachakra, Narayana in rasi or if it fails from some Varga. It is in this context I had raised other questions. I must thank you for concurring with my view in this regard. Rath: There is a huge universe but everything is in perfect order if you havethe vision of Jagannath Vishnu and everything is in chaos if you do not have this vision. To try to explain away this huge gigantic creation, with its multiple subtleties and multiple environments in just one rasi chart is trying to turn a blind eye to the existence of this vast truth. The rasi chart holds it all but it can be seen with the microscope of the vragas, and the events timed with the various dasa tools as they represent different aspects of the universe and its working. I concurred with the questioning and that this view is correct as how can we time the birth of children when Jupiter's transit in any sign is going to give a child! That automatically brings out the need for the Saptamsa chart. To the questions you raise, I have views to offer: 1. Kendra and trikona positions are also applicable. See the dictum of Parasara on the calculation of strength. You will find a clear dictum on the use of kendra in vargas. Irrespective of what Parasara says in some isolated verse of a spurious text like BPH, we must look with objectivity as to the consequences of such conceptions. Question comes only if you uphold that Vargas are independent. I have already refuted the independence of Vargas in my posting and I am awaiting some response. Rath: BPHS is a compilation of Poorva Khanda and Uttara khanda of the text written by Parasara. If you say this is wrong, then so be it. So what is the source of your Jyotish? Where are you studying Jyotish from? Is it the Puranas or some other texts? Then, according to you, the entire India/world of astrology which practises Parasari Jyotish is wrong...What about Jaimini? Do you agree with this text at least or do you say this is also spurious? 2. Awaiting a respose from others on this...very good question/point. 3. Yes. Good and bad happen in every dasa, and it is not always that bad must happen in every field of life. For example if Mars is giving a negative indication in the rasi chart as the 8th lord then it hampers health and energy and indicates a difficult period and if in the navamsa it is a yogakaraka and is well placed then these problems will not be felt in marriage. If it is also 8th lord in say another varga then in that varga the negative effects will be surely felt. Here again you are taking Varga as independent. There cannot be any independent Varga characterization for Planets as the benevolence or malevolence the planets derive from the rising point - Lagna of Rasi. I have already explained the irrationality of treating Lagna_Navamsa as Lagna for anything. There is only one Lagna in a Kundali and that is the rising point over East which renders the Karmic qualities to the chart and its associated parameters. If for Aries_Lagna with Navamsa in Libra, there is no Libra rising and any extrapolation of the Rasi concepts to other Vargas is an unscientific step. Rath: I have wriiten books where I have shown the use of the various Lagna in the divisional charts for children, spouse etc. In this line I am joined by K N Rao and B V Raman. I wrote in the lines of teachings of my grandfather in his book "Shodasa Varga" (Oriya Language). There is only one Lagna in a Kundali and this is the exact cusp of the ascendant in the eastern horizon in the sidereal zodiac and this ascendant manifests with different natures in different aspects of life. For marriage and dharma it manifests as the Navamsa Lagna, for co-born it manifests as the Parasari Drekkana Lagna, for Karma viveka it manifests as the Jagannatha Drekkana Lagna, For Karma Phala it manifests as the Dasamsa Lagna and so on. That is the nature of Prajapati, for it is Prajapati Who is creating all beings and this is the lagna cusp. Definitioon of anything as scientific or unscientific depends on the parameters used. I will comment on this when you define what parameters of 'scientific definition' have been overlooked. 4. Are you sure that the rasi has the most important position or strength in Varga strength (Vimsopaka bala) calculation? I thought it was the shastyamsa D60 chart which has the maximum weightage. Please check and get back. This is really basic. Please check as to how I had raised that point. If I remember correctly, I had raised a question mark as I had a doubt. Anyway I will have a detailed look at the rationale of Vargabala and will give my view. Not only this is basic all the aspects that we have discussed are basic. It is the spurious research that is polluting the basics and confuses the students. Rath: Awaiting your findings patiently. You may have a look at the Kunda_kriya as is being shown in some SJC docs. Rath: Which docs are these? Kindly show them so that we can have them reviewed and altered if necessary. Prasnamarga is quoted as the source but the method explained is something different. Prasnamarga, Ch. V, verse 8 says that Kundalagam has to be Janmatara or Anujanma tara and as such it must be linked to Moon. But now under research such basic rules have been misinterpreted without giving the rationale of research and verification achieved. Rath: Thats for Prasna charts. What about Karma Taraa? In Orissa we use this as well. Is the linkage to the Moon because of Manushya Jaataka? I would think so. Which rules have been misinterpreted or misunderstood? I am thankful for your agreement mentioned at the outset and I hope that we will be able to have more fruitful exchange of views in future. Rath: Of course. Surya Rao Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * * - Surya Rao vedic astrology Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:18 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Laughing at divisional transits Dear Sreenadh, See how many signs are involved even if we consider Rasi alone. It can be more than 8 if we take AVmax sign of Guru also. Some of these features may coincide in one rasi. Even then Guru's tranist through 5 - 6 signs can give children. Guru in one position aspects 3 signs. So at any time if we consider all signs that is said below 1 to 8 some "Putra_Rasi" will be under the influence of Guru. I think this is something all can understand. Under this predicament, just imagine someone applies such formulae to Vargas treated as independent. Guru shall cause children in all rasis? Then how shall one predict? Postmortem will be wonderful. We must do research but research must be methodical and intelligent. I am sorry if I am wrong in the above perception. I have few more doubts - If someone says that aspects and transits are applicable to Navamsa, then what about Kendra_Trikona positions? Rajayoga have been predicted in respect of what - Rasi or other Vargas? Or you say everywhere there are Rajayogas and have equal strengths? A planet is beneficial for the native based on Lagna - is it? Can that change in the case of Varga where Lagna may be different? See for Kanya Lagna is Mars is dire malefic and so it will be for the native. Now say Kanya has navamsa in Leo. Shall malefics Mars become benevolent for spouse? 4. How the strength is attributed in Varga_Bala calculations – Rasi is more important and contributes more strength than other Vargas? If yes why? Surya Rao 1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2)The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 My views in green at respective places. Thanking you Surya Rao Sanjay Rath <guruji (AT) srath (DOT) com> wrote: om namo bhagavate vasudevaya Dear Sri Surya Rao, Comments belowWith best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * * I am giving my comments below in respect of the points you have mentioned. Sanjay Rath <guruji (AT) srath (DOT) com> wrote: om namo bhagavate vasudevaya Dear Sri Surya Rao, Will 'tad-amsa-ke' always be interpreted as navamsa? When will other vargas come into the picture? that depends on the context that the author addresses. But general use that is found in texts refer to navamsa by amsa. So unless otherwise stated mostly it is taken as navamsa. If your question is in respect of different meanings possible, the basic meaning of amsa in Jyotihsastra is 'bhaga' or degree. Rath: That still does not answer the basic question. When will other vargas come into the picture. Vargas are part of Rasi and not independent and as such the question when will don' arise. "When will?" is not a part of my thinking as I don't treat Varga as separate from Rasi. Incidentally, I agree with your fundamental doubt that if all those rules are applied they cover almost all signs implying that pregnancy can happen anytime and does not depend on transits!!! When you agree on this aspect, how do you advocate the use of independent Vargas, ATPs, Arudha in varga, Arudha in ATPs, Rajayoga in Vargas etc All this will lead to a situation of chaos in Jyotisha where anything and everything can be justified if not with Rasi with some Varga or ATP or Annual Tajaka or some Dasa, Vimsottari, Kalachakra, Narayana in rasi or if it fails from some Varga. It is in this context I had raised other questions. I must thank you for concurring with my view in this regard. Rath: There is a huge universe but everything is in perfect order if you havethe vision of Jagannath Vishnu and everything is in chaos if you do not have this vision. To try to explain away this huge gigantic creation, with its multiple subtleties and multiple environments in just one rasi chart is trying to turn a blind eye to the existence of this vast truth. The rasi chart holds it all but it can be seen with the microscope of the vragas, and the events timed with the various dasa tools as they represent different aspects of the universe and its working. I concurred with the questioning and that this view is correct as how can we time the birth of children when Jupiter's transit in any sign is going to give a child! That automatically brings out the need for the Saptamsa chart. You have not answered my point in the context of objectivity of horoscope interpretation. We are not discussing the Universe that is "anantam, ajnatam, avarnaneeyam...". Issue pertains to delineation of a chart and how such proliferation of extrapolated techniques can be tolerated in the name of research? To the questions you raise, I have views to offer: 1. Kendra and trikona positions are also applicable. See the dictum of Parasara on the calculation of strength. You will find a clear dictum on the use of kendra in vargas. Irrespective of what Parasara says in some isolated verse of a spurious text like BPH, we must look with objectivity as to the consequences of such conceptions. Question comes only if you uphold that Vargas are independent. I have already refuted the independence of Vargas in my posting and I am awaiting some response. Rath: BPHS is a compilation of Poorva Khanda and Uttara khanda of the text written by Parasara. If you say this is wrong, then so be it. So what is the source of your Jyotish? Where are you studying Jyotish from? Is it the Puranas or some other texts? Then, according to you, the entire India/world of astrology which practises Parasari Jyotish is wrong...What about Jaimini? Do you agree with this text at least or do you say this is also spurious? we must look with objectivity as to the consequences of such conceptions. Question comes only if you uphold that Vargas are independent. I have already refuted the independence of Vargas in my posting and I am awaiting some response. All ancient works except Vedas have evolved over ages and it is possible that errors have kept into them. We need objective study to understand them. An isolated verse or two if it run contrary to fundamentals, must be rejected. 2. Awaiting a respose from others on this...very good question/point. 3. Yes. Good and bad happen in every dasa, and it is not always that bad must happen in every field of life. For example if Mars is giving a negative indication in the rasi chart as the 8th lord then it hampers health and energy and indicates a difficult period and if in the navamsa it is a yogakaraka and is well placed then these problems will not be felt in marriage. If it is also 8th lord in say another varga then in that varga the negative effects will be surely felt. Here again you are taking Varga as independent. There cannot be any independent Varga characterization for Planets as the benevolence or malevolence the planets derive from the rising point - Lagna of Rasi. I have already explained the irrationality of treating Lagna_Navamsa as Lagna for anything. There is only one Lagna in a Kundali and that is the rising point over East which renders the Karmic qualities to the chart and its associated parameters. If for Aries_Lagna with Navamsa in Libra, there is no Libra rising and any extrapolation of the Rasi concepts to other Vargas is an unscientific step. Rath: I have wriiten books where I have shown the use of the various Lagna in the divisional charts for children, spouse etc. In this line I am joined by K N Rao and B V Raman. I wrote in the lines of teachings of my grandfather in his book "Shodasa Varga" (Oriya Language). There is only one Lagna in a Kundali and this is the exact cusp of the ascendant in the eastern horizon in the sidereal zodiac and this ascendant manifests with different natures in different aspects of life. For marriage and dharma it manifests as the Navamsa Lagna, for co-born it manifests as the Parasari Drekkana Lagna, for Karma viveka it manifests as the Jagannatha Drekkana Lagna, For Karma Phala it manifests as the Dasamsa Lagna and so on. That is the nature of Prajapati, for it is Prajapati Who is creating all beings and this is the lagna cusp. Definitioon of anything as scientific or unscientific depends on the parameters used. I will comment on this when you define what parameters of 'scientific definition' have been overlooked. You have not answered my point. Do you accept that Vargas are not independent? I have discussed this matter in sufficient details above. You have not answered on the point I have discussed. KN Rao and BV Raman, names add no credibility to any work. BV Raman and KN Rao followed such Varga theory with two ayanamsas differing by 1.5 degree nearly. So we can have a feel of the validity of their claims. You yourself have rejected Raman ayanamsa as wrong. So Sri BV Raman's certificate for any Varga theory has no validity. As I said above, Varga Lagna is within Rasi _Lagna and has no independent existence with which the Rasi conceptions of aspects, yogas, lordships, dasas, longitudes etc can be extrapolated to Varga charts conceived independently. 4. Are you sure that the rasi has the most important position or strength in Varga strength (Vimsopaka bala) calculation? I thought it was the shastyamsa D60 chart which has the maximum weightage. Please check and get back. This is really basic. Please check as to how I had raised that point. If I remember correctly, I had raised a question mark as I had a doubt. Anyway I will have a detailed look at the rationale of Vargabala and will give my view. Not only this is basic all the aspects that we have discussed are basic. It is the spurious research that is polluting the basics and confuses the students. Rath: Awaiting your findings patiently. You may have a look at the Kunda_kriya as is being shown in some SJC docs. Rath: Which docs are these? Kindly show them so that we can have them reviewed and altered if necessary. Those details given below ie Prasna Marga is quoted in "Tattvas and Birth Rectification' by Visti_Larzen. Prasnamarga is quoted as the source but the method explained is something different. Prasnamarga, Ch. V, verse 8 says that Kundalagam has to be Janmatara or Anujanma tara and as such it must be linked to Moon. But now under research such basic rules have been misinterpreted without giving the rationale of research and verification achieved. Rath: Thats for Prasna charts. What about Karma Taraa? In Orissa we use this as well. Is the linkage to the Moon because of Manushya Jaataka? I would think so. Which rules have been misinterpreted or misunderstood? Kunda_kriya as I know links Lagna and Moon. I have not come across any other use except in the above doc where Kunda_Lagna is (Lagnax81) is again equated to Lagna. Can it be possible as a Lagna rectification method? Can Lagna be rectified by multiplying and then equating with itself? To judge this aspect, do we need to think of Manushyajataka and Prasna etc. Please have some reflections. I am thankful for your agreement mentioned at the outset and I hope that we will be able to have more fruitful exchange of views in future. Rath: Of course. Surya Rao Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * * - Surya Rao vedic astrology Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:18 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Laughing at divisional transits Dear Sreenadh, See how many signs are involved even if we consider Rasi alone. It can be more than 8 if we take AVmax sign of Guru also. Some of these features may coincide in one rasi. Even then Guru's tranist through 5 - 6 signs can give children. Guru in one position aspects 3 signs. So at any time if we consider all signs that is said below 1 to 8 some "Putra_Rasi" will be under the influence of Guru. I think this is something all can understand. Under this predicament, just imagine someone applies such formulae to Vargas treated as independent. Guru shall cause children in all rasis? Then how shall one predict? Postmortem will be wonderful. We must do research but research must be methodical and intelligent. I am sorry if I am wrong in the above perception. I have few more doubts - If someone says that aspects and transits are applicable to Navamsa, then what about Kendra_Trikona positions? Rajayoga have been predicted in respect of what - Rasi or other Vargas? Or you say everywhere there are Rajayogas and have equal strengths? A planet is beneficial for the native based on Lagna - is it? Can that change in the case of Varga where Lagna may be different? See for Kanya Lagna is Mars is dire malefic and so it will be for the native. Now say Kanya has navamsa in Leo. Shall malefics Mars become benevolent for spouse? 4. How the strength is attributed in Varga_Bala calculations – Rasi is more important and contributes more strength than other Vargas? If yes why? Surya Rao 1) The sign in which the 5th lord is posited. 2)The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord is posited3) The sign in which the 5th lord from Moon is posited.4) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from moon is posited.5) The sign in which the 5th lord from Ju is posited.6) The sign in which the Navamsa of 5th lord from Ju is posited.7) The sign in which Mandi is posited.8) The sign in which the Navamsa of Mandi is posited. FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2005 Report Share Posted November 9, 2005 om namo bhagavate vasudevayaDear Surya Can you give me even one example where you use the saptamsa?With best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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