Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath

November 7, 2005

Dear Sanjay Rath ji

It is great to see that you are reading mails of shri Narasimha.

me vijayadas pradeep is just a beginner.All the mails and the time

and effort spend my me on this very topic is truly out of quest

towards truth.If your kind self may note i had raised numerous

doubts on this ,and some were directly addressed to you.As you are

not obliged to reply,my hopes were purely relying on kindness and

assuming the nature of a request.

If you do not reply to beginner and consider me as an illiterate why

dont you kindly address my questions if not me.For those questions

are not mine;they are part of the sacred knowledge;any individual

who wants to sincerely study jyotish will find those.

Before explaining transits in ''Vargacharts'' i request your self to

address my questions and explain how you understand Varga

charts.Kindly address the 11 points mail addressed to shri Narasimha.

Also regarding transits ,i have replied to shri Narasimha on my

understanding.Transits in navamsha of a planet will definitely have

influence on the natal and sign and vice-versa due to mutual

sambandha.This does not justify any Vargachart is my understanding.

Kindly address these points and correct if i am wrong.

Pradeep

In vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>

wrote:

>

> om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

> Dear Narasimha

> I read a mail of yours regarding transits in Varga charts and how

some people laugh at it. Shocking indeed that they laugh at their

own lack of knowledge. So I have decided to present a paper

titled "Transits in Varga Charts" at the forthcoming Delhi

conference on Gochara. I will give considerable slokas from classics

where the transits w.r.t divisional charts and their placement is

given including the Nadi's. I will also post thepaper to this list

for the views of the learned members before the conference so that

the doubts raised can also be answered.

> With best wishes and warm regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> * * *

> Sri Jagannath Center®

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road

> New Delhi 110060, India

> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

> * * *

>

November 7, 2005

om namo bhagavate vasudevayaDear Vijaydas ji

Namaste.

You are among the few who have kept the standards high although this may have

caused some heart burn..even in me sending me back to my books. For that I will

always give you credit. ...frankly I have been travelling too much , thanks to

you and others for the support for all this.

Are these the 11 points?

Summary of my understanding and points discussed so far.1)Graha Drishti - Except

for shadbala calculations, we generally go by house wise aspects(approximation

of longitudinal aspect).For shadbala, we go by exact longitude and quantify.It

is a known fact that for Bhava Phala Niroopana,aspects are used based on

houses.

Rath: Are house wise aspects approximation of longitudinal aspect? In that case

we will be going against the various definitions of bhava. What happens if a

planet is in one house in the rasi chart and then goes to another house in the

bhava chart. What happens to its aspects? For example if Mars is in Lagna in

Mesha in Rasi chart and then goes to 12th house in chalit or bhava chakra, will

the 'special 8th house aspect in the bhava chart be to the 7th house or will it

still be to Scorpio?

2)If a planet is aspecting a house without any placement - We can only find the

Drishti Kendra ie the point of maximum influence.Mars aspecting Libra sign is a

perfect example.This aspect of Mars is based on longitudinal dispositions of the

sign in which Mars is placed as well as the aspected Sign.These are

recorded/measured in terms of degrees - multiples of 30 degree signs.Please do

not mix Navamsha,Dashamsha etc with this.Mars is aspecting the sign Libra which

inturn is assuming roles of Navamsha,Dashamasha,Kshethra etc.

Rath: I have not readthe previous posts so would not like to comment, but what I

am making out of this is that if Mars is aspecting Tula rashi in the rashi

chakra, then it aspects Tula rashi in the navamsa, dasamsa and all other

divisional charts!!! Wow. I had never heard of this. Is this the suggestion

Vijaydas ji. 3)A planet has a single position and hence a single longitude at a

point in time.Based on this position it has numerous influences.These

infleunces are understood through Vargas.Pls don't confuse this with

Grahadrishti mentioned above.There is no ''further'' longitude needed to

understand this sambandha.

Rath: I agree with this position. The recent trend of taking the proportional

longitude in vargas is fascinating. But I am not discouraging that as it has to

be studied at some point of time.4)For example Varga Bala is not calculated

based on longitudes.It is based on Planet/Rashi sambandha.Each harmonic

sambandha has a specific purpose(eg Navamsha for spouse).When we relate this

with the relevant bhava in Rashi chakra,picture becomes clear.I had given

classical references.

Rath: Agree with this also and this in harmony with the previous statement.

5)Drigbala(Aspectual strenght) is calculated based on longitude,while

Varga/Planet relationships are harmonic influences.

Rath: Desire and Resources are different things altogether. The desire comes

form the graha dristi or the drig bala and the resources to achieve this desire

comes from the varga or divisional chart (or division...whatever you

use).6)Kshethra placement shows conjunction.This means a planet placed in a

sign is conjunct that sign.Navamsha shows ninth harmonic influence.It means a

particular planet from its place of occupation has a harmonic relationship with

another sign.In both the cases the influence is on the sign and not on any

specific longitude.Longitude is a qualification for the planet and not amshas.

7)For example, assume that planet Venus is placed at 27 degrees in Pisces.This

is the only placement it has in Zodiac.Now sage has defined Zodiac as having 12

signs.3 degrees forward from 27 dgrees in Pisces and 27 degrees backward from 27

degrees in Pisces is the Kshethra in which Venus is placed.This is the first

Varga or first harmonic influence.In other words Venus is treated as

conjuncting the sign Pisces.The whole 30 degree sector is having 1 to 1

relationship with Pisces.In other wordsit is the first division.8)20 minutes

backward from 27 degrees in pisces and 3 degrees forward from 27 degrees in

pisces constitutes the navamsha division in which Venus is placed.Parashara

defined this sector within Pisces as Pisces Navamsha(no further degrees).This

3.2 degree sector is thus having a harmonic influence with Pisces.Vargottama

Navamsha.

Rath: Hang on! Harmonic is not the translation for Vargottama. I have heard this

word being used too often in the west for almost anything including

relationships!!! 9)Difference between Point 7 and point 8 is - In point 7 it

was a 1 to 1 or first harmonic sambandha while in point 8 it is a ninth

harmonic sambandha.This is the very purpose of harmonics.

Rath: My understanding was that D1 does NOT have a harmonic with D9 instead it

has a harmonic with D13 (if there is any D13 chart)...10)When two planets are

conjunct in a sign acting as Navamsha - it is infact showing the sambandha

those planets are having with that particular sign.To find aspects above that

can only be some kind of poetical imagination and has no rational at all(Cannot

be reconciled with Parasharas aspectual rules).

Rath: Who says so? How often have you found this to happen?? Is that the meaning

of vargottama? The word Vargottama is from Varga and Uttama or the best. Now

will Mercury in 27 deg Pices be in the best sign in rasi and navamsa? Is this

understanding correct? Or is there another interpretation of this...have you

seen my paper on navamsa.11)If you are trying to bring furhter degrees - It is

nothing but MOVEMENT from one NAVAMSHA to another NAVAMSHA.This has not been

sanctioned by Sage and please don't make any such assumptions.This will create

further problems similar to ''TWO ZODIACS concept''.

Rath: What further degrees? Not clear about the debate. Can you give me the

references or the mail links.With best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* *

*Sri Jagannath Center®15B Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060,

Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162* * *

-

vijayadas_pradeep

vedic astrology

Monday, November 07, 2005 5:22 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath

Dear Sanjay Rath jiIt is great to see that you are reading mails of shri

Narasimha.me vijayadas pradeep is just a beginner.All the mails and the time

and effort spend my me on this very topic is truly out of quest towards

truth.If your kind self may note i had raised numerous doubts on this ,and some

were directly addressed to you.As you are not obliged to reply,my hopes were

purely relying on kindness and assuming the nature of a request.If you do not

reply to beginner and consider me as an illiterate why dont you kindly address

my questions if not me.For those questions are not mine;they are part of the

sacred knowledge;any individual who wants to sincerely study jyotish will find

those.Before explaining transits in ''Vargacharts'' i request your self to

address my questions and explain how you understand Varga charts.Kindly address

the 11 points mail addressed to shri Narasimha.Also regarding transits ,i have

replied to shri Narasimha on my understanding.Transits in navamsha of a planet

will definitely have influence on the natal and sign and vice-versa due to

mutual sambandha.This does not justify any Vargachart is my

understanding.Kindly address these points and correct if i am wrong.Pradeep In

vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> wrote:>> > om namo

bhagavate vasudevaya> Dear Narasimha> I read a mail of yours regarding transits

in Varga charts and how some people laugh at it. Shocking indeed that they

laugh at their own lack of knowledge. So I have decided to present a paper

titled "Transits in Varga Charts" at the forthcoming Delhi conference on

Gochara. I will give considerable slokas from classics where the transits w.r.t

divisional charts and their placement is given including the Nadi's. I will also

post thepaper to this list for the views of the learned members before the

conference so that the doubts raised can also be answered.> With best wishes

and warm regards,> Sanjay Rath> * * *> Sri Jagannath Center®> 15B Gangaram

Hospital Road > New Delhi 110060, India> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162> * *

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November 7, 2005

om namo bhagavate vasudevayaDear PradeepComments under your notes:

- vijayadas_pradeep

vedic astrology

Tuesday, November 08, 2005 3:12 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath

Dear Sanjay Rath ji NamasteThanks for your mail and time.

Rath: Please don't thank me. Thank my Guru Kashinatha who gave me the knowledge

and Jagannath who has given me some time in this planet.

My queries have been elementary in nature.Plain basics.Thus i do not feel those

having extra ordinary standard.Your kind self may check again.

Rath: What seems basic questions the very foundation and philosophy of creation,

and thyen this is no longer basic.> > 1)Graha Drishti - Except for shadbala

calculations, we generally go > by house wise aspects(approximation of

longitudinal aspect).For > shadbala, we go by exact longitude and quantify.It

is a known fact > that for Bhava Phala Niroopana,aspects are used based on

houses. > > Rath: Are house wise aspects approximation of longitudinal aspect?

In that case we will be going against the various definitions of bhava. What

happens if a planet is in one house in the rasi chart and then goes to another

house in the bhava chart. What happens to its aspects? For example if Mars is

in Lagna in Mesha in Rasi chart and then goes to 12th house in chalit or bhava

chakra, will the 'special 8th house aspect in the bhava chart be to the 7th

house or will it still be to Scorpio?Pradeep:A planet has maximum influence

(full influence) at 180 degrees from its placement.seven houses is the

approximation.Whether it is Bhavachart or rashi chart - 30 degree boundaries

forms basis for our approximation.Rath: That is provided we are going into

calculation of the strengths of the drishti. And before we can do that let us

first have a clarification of the following questions, questions that were

raised in the year 1996 and 1997 in a List called Jyotish List in Majordomo

when KN Rao went to look for books that he had in a trunk under his bed ... let

us start from ground zero as my gurudeva always said.

Question 1: Why do we need Drishti? And how do we understand the working of

Drishti in real life terms.

Question 2: What is the explicit difference between Graha Drishti and Rashi Drishti?

Question 3: Where can the graha NOT have any Drishti what-so-ever?

Question 4: Does Drishti cause sambandha (relationship) and if so how?

Question 5: and for how long shall this sambandha caused by Drishti work? Is

this forever right from birth till death or is this temporary over a period of

time. If temporary how do we determine the working time?> > > 2)If a planet is

aspecting a house without any placement - We can > only find the Drishti Kendra

ie the point of maximum influence.Mars > aspecting Libra sign is a perfect

example.This aspect of Mars is > based on longitudinal dispositions of the sign

in which Mars is > placed as well as the aspected Sign.These are

recorded/measured in > terms of degrees - multiples of 30 degree signs.Please

do not mix > Navamsha,Dashamsha etc with this.Mars is aspecting the sign Libra

> which inturn is assuming roles of Navamsha,Dashamasha,Kshethra etc.> > Rath:

I have not readthe previous posts so would not like to comment, but what I am

making out of this is that if Mars is aspecting Tula rashi in the rashi chakra,

then it aspects Tula rashi in the navamsa, dasamsa and all other divisional

charts!!! Wow. I had never heard of this. Is this the suggestion Vijaydas ji.

Pradeep:It is not all other divisional charts.A planet is aspecting a sign.That

sign can be a navamsha or dashamsha for a planet.Rath: Why are you limiting it

now? If you say that a planet aspecting the sign in the rasi chart will aspect

the same sign in all varga. Unless you are taking aspect to mean the exact 180

degree point only and not the whole sign.> [Points 3 to 8 deleted as they seem

to be satisfactory so far]

> Rath: Hang on! Harmonic is not the translation for Vargottama. I have heard

this word being used too often in the west for almost anything including

relationships!!! Pradeep:In this example vargottama just coincided with and it

has nothing to do with harmonics.Pls read the points without Vargottama.

Rath: OK ignoring these points 6, 7 and 8 as they do not seem to be relevant any

more.> > 9)Difference between Point 7 and point 8 is - In point 7 it was a 1 >

to 1 or first harmonic sambandha while in point 8 it is a ninth > harmonic

sambandha.This is the very purpose of harmonics.> > Rath: My understanding was

that D1 does NOT have a harmonic with D9 instead it has a harmonic with D13 (if

there is any D13 chart)...Pradeep:I have understood D1 as explained by

Parashara.Kshethra.Griha of a planet.From this kshethra it has harmonic

inlfuences with other signs.

Rath: Are there signs in the sky? How are they created? from where did the rashi

boundaries come? To my knowledge these signs are drawn solely on the basis of

the movement of the Sun and the Sun alone is the master of all the rashi's. He

then doles out duties to the grahas based on their abilities and nature and

this is again based on proximity to power. Those close to him get kshetra

(meaning areas of influence or governance or lordship like a feudal lord and

not like the king) over signs adjoining his Leo/spouses (Moon) Cancer chamber.

Now coming to harmonics, how does lets say, Mars in Aries have harmonic with

Saturn in Capricorn? OR let us say, how does Mars in Aries have harmonic with

Venus in Taurus? Pleae explain so that I can understand what you mean by the

use of the term harmonic.

> > 10)When two planets are conjunct in a sign acting as Navamsha - it > is

infact showing the sambandha those planets are having with that > particular

sign.To find aspects above that can only be some kind of > poetical imagination

and has no rational at all(Cannot be reconciled > with Parasharas aspectual

rules).> > Rath: Who says so? How often have you found this to happen?? Is that

the meaning of vargottama? The word Vargottama is from Varga and Uttama or the

best. Now will Mercury in 27 deg Pices be in the best sign in rasi and navamsa?

Is this understanding correct? Or is there another interpretation of this...have

you seen my paper on navamsa.Pradeep:It has nothing to do with Vargottama.As i

have said the navamsha which i had chosen was vargottama(coincidence). Kindly

explain when do two planets conjunct,astronomically in navamsha.

Rath: Planets can conjoin in navamsa only if we are allowed to draw a navamsa

chart. In our discussion of basics have we arrived at that stage? Have we you

and Narasimha reached that stage of debate/deliberation where it is convincing

enough that a navamsa chart is allowed to be drawn? If you have reached that

stage then I would like to ask a few questions. > > 11)If you are trying to

bring furhter degrees - It is nothing but > MOVEMENT from one NAVAMSHA to

another NAVAMSHA.This has not been > sanctioned by Sage and please don't make

any such assumptions.This > will create further problems similar to ''TWO

ZODIACS concept''.> > Rath: What further degrees? Not clear about the debate.

Can you give me the references or the mail links.Pradeep:Eg.Gemini Navamsha

within Aries rashi is related to Gemini sign.If we find degrees again within

Gemini sign to understand the same navamsha - we are talking about further

degrees.Or in other words moving from one navamsha to another.Rath: A planet

lets say Mars in Gemini navamsa in Aries sign brings the influence of Mars in

Gemini in the rasi chart based on "Rasi tulya Navamsa principle".

When we talk of degrees within the Gemini navamsa i.e. within 6.40' to 10.00' of

Aries, then we are talking of fines divisions and this will depend on the even

finer division talked about. Lets day we break thisinto another nine parts,

then this becomes D81 or if this part is broken into 12 parts then we are

talking about D108. Degrees within a navamsa do not explain the nature of the

navamsa but they do explain even finer things about the bodies contained in

these parts.Thanks a lot again for your time.But my doubts are very simple and

will post them as a seperate mail.Just 2 or 3 simple questions.Rath: My

pleasure. I will try but it is you who is leading everyone to enlightenment in

jyotish. One more thing - am I supposed to know all the answers? Is it also

possible that there are things none of us in this list know and perhaps no

living human beign today is aware of. If so, how do we propose to deal with

that? Can we live with this knowing that we don't know?Kind regdsPradeep

With best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B

Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

November 8, 2005

Rasi and Varga – Pradeep’s mail and the wisdom of the Sages

A few comments are being offered here to facilitate clarity in understanding the

position of Rasi and Vargas in the wisdom of the Sages.

1. Virat purush or Cosmic manifestation on the apex of which we find Man is

a vibrant lively being consisting of the duplex corpus of macrocosm and

microcosm. Sages abstracted the form of Kalasakti embedded in macrocosm in the

Kalachakra and the same had to be the exact replica of the form of Yogsakti

manifested in microcosm.

2. Apparent path of Sun and Moon, the path of the nodes (Rahu and Sikhi)

formed the basis of abstraction with the symbolism that we have received in

Jyotisha from the Sages. Sun is atmakaraka and Moon is Jivakaraka and Sun’s

movement is represented by Lagna and both Sun and Moon together accomplish the

terrestrial entry of a soul (as is reflected in the logic behind Kunda_kriya).

3. Varahamihira in verse 4 lays down the Angavibhaga of Kalapurusha in the

verse "kalangani varangamanana..." and accordingly we construe the Rasis and

Nakshatras as the celestial limb_structure of Time for predictive purpose.

Commentaries on Brhatjjataka also explain the divisional charts Drekkana,

Navamsa, etc the "Shadvargas" as the Yoga Shad-Chakras of the Kalapurusha or

His spiritual limbs. Thus Rasi and Vargas together

constitute the predictive tools.

4. Lagna, the rising point is Head and that is the most critical limb. With

the rise of Lagna in the East Kundali manifests and is marked by the first cry

of Jiva and this recorded symbolically in scriptures (Satapatha_Brahmana) as

the birth of Kumara. Kumara born of the Samvatsara receives the name as Rudra _

as one who cries_ the bunch of 11 elements, 10 Pranas and the mind. Kundali

(Horoscope) limbs become active 12 avayavas and all the rest like Vargas when

Lagna rises and so without Rasi Lagna and the 12 limbs of Rasi and Vargas as

explained above there is no Jyotisha and predictive

logic. Birth and a Kundali are the two facets of the live Cosmos – it is not

mathematics alone. A Kundalini receives its chaitanyam from the rising

phenomenon, from the Cosmic Prana. In fact Jyotisha conceive Kalapurusha as

engaged in Pranayama and it is that Kalapurusha who makes the longitudes

representative of Karma.

5. Take the case of Aries Lagna rising with Navamasa in Libra. A Kundali

manifests when Aries rises on the East by the action of the respective cosmic

agents Sun and Moon. Now if someone says that his spouse is born when Libra

Navamsa_Lagna, my question is where is this Libra_Navamsa rising? Can you see

that Navamsa in the East in Libra? Libra_navamsa in such a case is rising in

Aries on the East. What other proof is required for the fact that Navamsa or

any Varga cannot be independent? Further, it must be clearly understood that

Gemini

Lagna_Libra navamsa is not the same as Aries Lagna_Libra Navamsa. Then how can a

Navamsa or Varga can be read independently?

6. Can a spouse be born when there is nothing like “Libra” is rising when

“Aries_Lagna has Libra Navamsa”?

7. It is because of the above reason that all classical texts speak of

Navamsa or Varga in conjunction with Rasi. See for example Pushkara navamsas

are defined for specifics Rasis. Aries_ Simha and Dhanu are Pushkara not all

Simha and Dhanu are Pushkara. Likewise for all Rasis. All predictive logics are

derived from the basic Rasi_Nakshatra mathematical strucutre of the Zodiac.

Wherever Navamsa is mentioned, it is mentioned as the underlying influence of

Rasi like - "meshe chapamsake.."

8. Foundation of Jyotisha is observation, analysis and inference without

violating fundamentals. Zodiac and its mathematical structure are inviolable.

Predictive logics are not like that - they are relative kala_desa_kula affect

them. What is the underlying zodiacal feature of a predictive logic - this is

what we must see to give weightage to a logic. If a strong zodiacal

mathematical structural aspect is involved, then that logic stands, others not.

Surya Raovijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote:

Dear Sanjay jiAs i am flying to india, tomorrow morning, for a week's

vacation,cannot address all your questions in detail.But will try.Please

address my 3 queries.Unless we address those three queries,we are never going

to reach any conclusion.Rath: Are there signs in the sky? I do not have much

differences here regarding your understanding.Also to me it is a model

representing the link between Yogapurusha and Kalapurusha,as shri Chandrahari

has rightly explained.Also Sun the natural atmakaraka or soul is the primary

cause.But I have one difference.Kshethra and Rashi does not convey the same

meaning ,though they are having similar boundaries.AspectsA planet has a desire

and it can aspect only those Bhavas towards which it is Having a desire.This is

determined by Lagna.Without rising Lagna there is nothing in Jyotisha.It is the

HEAD

-Limb of Kalapurusha.Lagna Navamsha does not show another HEAD.Why?Libra

navamsha in Aries is not same as Libra navamsha in Gemini(I had given Kalyan

Varma examples).Libra Navamsha in Aries can rise in the east only if Aries SIGN

is rising.Similarly Libra Navamsha in Gemini can rise only if Gemini SIGN is

rising.Rising Lagna becomes THE First Bhava.Is it possible otherwise

Sanjayji!!!! .Then how can you study Libra navamsha in isolation.Now can your

good self think why Kalyan Varma, never explain any navamsha in isolation.Also

a planet is aspecting the 7th from itself due to an Astrological Reason.Seventh

bhava shows our interactive environment.Similar to Man and Woman - they have a

desire to unite.For Poorna Chandra to happen, there is only one and only one

physical possibilty.Sun and Moon should be longitudinally opposite.If Sun and

Moon are 1/7 in a ''varga chart''(and not in Rashi chakra) it DOES NOT

correspond to full moon.They have no mutual sambandha based on navamsha

position ALONE.It learly shows Bhavas and Vargas are exclusive concepts.The

confusion can be Attributed only to the similarity in span between a Rashi and

Kshethra. There is a mathematical as well as philosophical(essence and purpose

of Jyotish) part involved.Mathematics is not the reason.It is the frame that

helps all of us to study Jyotish objectively.Mathematical part is used to

understand the latent, astrological purpose.If a rule is set for an aspect it

remains the same.It is outside the bracket of Kshethra/Navamsha.We cannot say a

planet placed 20 degrees from each other can cast full aspect in Navamsha.Rath:

Planets can conjoin in navamsa only if we are allowed to draw a navamsa chart.

Whether we draw another chart or not planetary inlfuences will remain.What we

see in Navamsha is not a placement(Yuti).Rather a different influence.Placement

is what we call as Kshethra influence.If two planets are conjoining they are

Individually related to that sign.Rath:When we talk of degrees within the

Gemini navamsa i.e. within 6.40'to 10.00' of AriesPradeep:We are talking about

two different aspects.Shri Narasimha was considering degrees again within the

Gemini SIGN.This is movement from one navamsha to another.Rath: My pleasure. I

will try but it is you who is leading everyone to enlightenment in jyotish.

Pradeep:i am totally aware of my limitations.first let me lead myself towards

light before enlightening others.Rath:Mars in Aries have harmonic with Saturn

in Capricorn? OR let us say,

how does Mars in Aries have harmonic with Venus in Taurus?Mars in Aries points

to a first harmonic relationship of Mars with Aries (Yuti).Saturn in Capricorn

too shows similar.Kshethra is first harmonic - showing the first kind of

influence a planet is having with a sign.Now suppose the navamsha of Mars too

falls in Aries(say Mars is at 3 degrees in Aries) -It means Mars has two kinds

of relationship with sign Aries,from the same position in space.The second one

being a ninth harmonic.Now let us suppose, if this Mars is at 28 degrees in

Aries.Then it is in the Dashamsha of Saturn namely capricorn.This means apart

from its placement and Yuti in Aries,Mars is having another relationship with

the sign Capricorn.The frequency through which it relates to Capricorn is not

similar to as it does with Aries.This is the tenth harmonic influence.Rathne

more thing - am I supposed to know all the answers?Pradeep:Sanjay ji,this is

the most honest opinion.It is not at all possible that we know all the

answers.But why should we prolifereate ideas when we ourselves are not

sure.When doubts are arising,(it can be from me or a Guru like you),are we not

responsible to take a Relook.Thanks

Pradeep-- In vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>

wrote:>> > om namo bhagavate vasudevaya> Dear Pradeep> Comments under your

notes:> - > vijayadas_pradeep > To:

vedic astrology > Tuesday, November 08, 2005 3:12 AM>

[vedic astrology] Re: Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath> > >

Dear Sanjay Rath ji Namaste> > Thanks for your mail and time.> Rath: Please

don't thank me. Thank my Guru Kashinatha who gave me the knowledge and

Jagannath who has given me some time in this planet.> > My queries have been

elementary in nature.Plain basics.Thus i do not feel those having extra

ordinary standard.Your kind self may check again.> Rath: What seems basic

questions the very foundation and philosophy of creation, and thyen this is

no longer basic.> > > > 1)Graha Drishti - Except for shadbala calculations, we

generally go > > by house wise aspects(approximation of longitudinal

aspect).For > > shadbala, we go by exact longitude and quantify.It is a known

fact > > that for Bhava Phala Niroopana,aspects are used based on houses. > > >

> Rath: Are house wise aspects approximation of longitudinal aspect? In that

case we will be going against the various definitions of bhava. What happens if

a planet is in one house in the rasi chart and then goes to another house in the

bhava chart. What happens to its aspects? For example if Mars is in Lagna in

Mesha in Rasi chart and then goes to 12th house in chalit or bhava chakra, will

the 'special 8th house aspect in the bhava chart be to the 7th house or will it

still be to Scorpio?> > Pradeep:A planet has maximum influence (full influence)

at 180 degrees from its placement.seven houses is

the approximation.Whether it is Bhavachart or rashi chart - 30 degree boundaries

forms basis for our approximation.> Rath: That is provided we are going into

calculation of the strengths of the drishti. And before we can do that let us

first have a clarification of the following questions, questions that were

raised in the year 1996 and 1997 in a List called Jyotish List in Majordomo

when KN Rao went to look for books that he had in a trunk under his bed ... let

us start from ground zero as my gurudeva always said.> Question 1: Why do we

need Drishti? And how do we understand the working of Drishti in real life

terms.> Question 2: What is the explicit difference between Graha Drishti and

Rashi Drishti?> Question 3: Where can the graha NOT have any Drishti

what-so-ever?> Question 4: Does Drishti cause sambandha (relationship) and if

so how?> Question 5: and for how long shall this sambandha caused by Drishti

work? Is this forever right from

birth till death or is this temporary over a period of time. If temporary how do

we determine the working time?> > > > > > > 2)If a planet is aspecting a house

without any placement - We can > > only find the Drishti Kendra ie the point of

maximum influence.Mars > > aspecting Libra sign is a perfect example.This aspect

of Mars is > > based on longitudinal dispositions of the sign in which Mars is >

> placed as well as the aspected Sign.These are recorded/measured in > > terms

of degrees - multiples of 30 degree signs.Please do not mix > >

Navamsha,Dashamsha etc with this.Mars is aspecting the sign Libra > > which

inturn is assuming roles of Navamsha,Dashamasha,Kshethra etc.> > > > Rath: I

have not readthe previous posts so would not like to comment, but what I am

making out of this is that if Mars is aspecting Tula rashi in the rashi chakra,

then it aspects

Tula rashi in the navamsa, dasamsa and all other divisional charts!!! Wow. I had

never heard of this. Is this the suggestion Vijaydas ji. > > Pradeep:It is not

all other divisional charts.A planet is aspecting a sign.That sign can be a

navamsha or dashamsha for a planet.> Rath: Why are you limiting it now? If you

say that a planet aspecting the sign in the rasi chart will aspect the same

sign in all varga. Unless you are taking aspect to mean the exact 180 degree

point only and not the whole sign.> > > [Points 3 to 8 deleted as they seem to

be satisfactory so far]> > > Rath: Hang on! Harmonic is not the translation for

Vargottama. I have heard this word being used too often in the west for almost

anything including relationships!!! > > Pradeep:In this example vargottama just

coincided with and it has nothing to do with harmonics.Pls read the points

without Vargottama.> Rath: OK ignoring these points 6, 7 and

8 as they do not seem to be relevant any more.> > > > > 9)Difference between

Point 7 and point 8 is - In point 7 it was a 1 > > to 1 or first harmonic

sambandha while in point 8 it is a ninth > > harmonic sambandha.This is the

very purpose of harmonics.> > > > Rath: My understanding was that D1 does NOT

have a harmonic with D9 instead it has a harmonic with D13 (if there is any D13

chart)...> > Pradeep:I have understood D1 as explained by

Parashara.Kshethra.Griha of a planet.From this kshethra it has harmonic

inlfuences with other signs.> Rath: Are there signs in the sky? How are they

created? from where did the rashi boundaries come? To my knowledge these signs

are drawn solely on the basis of the movement of the Sun and the Sun alone is

the master of all the rashi's. He then doles out duties to the grahas based on

their abilities and nature and this is again based on proximity to power. Those

close to him get kshetra (meaning areas of influence or governance or lordship

like a feudal lord and not like the king) over signs adjoining his Leo/spouses

(Moon) Cancer chamber.> > Now coming to harmonics, how does lets say, Mars in

Aries have harmonic with Saturn in Capricorn? OR let us say, how does Mars in

Aries have harmonic with Venus in Taurus? Pleae explain so that I can

understand what you mean by the use of the term harmonic.> > > > > > 10)When

two planets are conjunct in a sign acting as Navamsha - it > > is infact

showing the sambandha those planets are having with that > > particular sign.To

find aspects above that can only be some kind of > > poetical imagination and

has no rational at all(Cannot be reconciled > > with Parasharas aspectual

rules).> > > > Rath: Who says so? How often have you found this to happen?? Is

that the meaning of vargottama? The word

Vargottama is from Varga and Uttama or the best. Now will Mercury in 27 deg

Pices be in the best sign in rasi and navamsa? Is this understanding correct?

Or is there another interpretation of this...have you seen my paper on

navamsa.> > Pradeep:It has nothing to do with Vargottama.As i have said the

navamsha which i had chosen was vargottama(coincidence). Kindly explain when do

two planets conjunct,astronomically in navamsha.> Rath: Planets can conjoin in

navamsa only if we are allowed to draw a navamsa chart. In our discussion of

basics have we arrived at that stage? Have we you and Narasimha reached that

stage of debate/deliberation where it is convincing enough that a navamsa chart

is allowed to be drawn? If you have reached that stage then I would like to ask

a few questions. > > > > > 11)If you are trying to bring furhter degrees - It

is nothing but > > MOVEMENT from one NAVAMSHA to another NAVAMSHA.This has not

been

> > sanctioned by Sage and please don't make any such assumptions.This > > will

create further problems similar to ''TWO ZODIACS concept''.> > > > Rath: What

further degrees? Not clear about the debate. Can you give me the references or

the mail links.> > Pradeep:Eg.Gemini Navamsha within Aries rashi is related to

Gemini sign.> If we find degrees again within Gemini sign to understand the

same navamsha - we are talking about further degrees.> Or in other words moving

from one navamsha to another.> Rath: A planet lets say Mars in Gemini navamsa in

Aries sign brings the influence of Mars in Gemini in the rasi chart based on

"Rasi tulya Navamsa principle". > When we talk of degrees within the Gemini

navamsa i.e. within 6.40' to 10.00' of Aries, then we are talking of fines

divisions and this will depend on the even finer division talked about. Lets

day we break thisinto another nine parts, then this

becomes D81 or if this part is broken into 12 parts then we are talking about

D108. Degrees within a navamsa do not explain the nature of the navamsa but

they do explain even finer things about the bodies contained in these parts.> >

Thanks a lot again for your time.But my doubts are very simple and will post

them as a seperate mail.Just 2 or 3 simple questions.> Rath: My pleasure. I

will try but it is you who is leading everyone to enlightenment in jyotish. One

more thing - am I supposed to know all the answers? Is it also possible that

there are things none of us in this list know and perhaps no living human beign

today is aware of. If so, how do we propose to deal with that? Can we live with

this knowing that we don't know?> Kind regds> Pradeep> With best wishes and

warm regards,> Sanjay Rath> * * *> Sri Jagannath Center®> 15B Gangaram Hospital

Road > New Delhi 110060, India> http://srath.com,

+91-11-25717162>

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

November 8, 2005

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

Dear Vijaydas ji,

Namaste. The present mail is in black and the older mail is in blue.

You have not answered any of the questions in my previous mail, perhaps an

oversight. So I will reproduce them again.

Question 1: Why do we need Drishti? And how do we understand the working of

Drishti in real life terms.

Question 2: What is the explicit difference between Graha Drishti and Rashi Drishti?

Question 3: Where can the graha NOT have any Drishti what-so-ever?

Question 4: Does Drishti cause sambandha (relationship) and if so how?

Question 5: and for how long shall this sambandha caused by Drishti work? Is

this forever right from birth till death or is this temporary over a period of

time. If temporary how do we determine the working time?Comments to other

points are given below.

With best wishes and warm regards,Sanjay Rath* * *Sri Jagannath Center®15B

Gangaram Hospital Road New Delhi 110060, Indiahttp://srath.com,

+91-11-25717162* * *

- vijayadas_pradeep

vedic astrology

Tuesday, November 08, 2005 8:46 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath

Dear Sanjay jiAs i am flying to india, tomorrow morning, for a week's

vacation,cannot address all your questions in detail.But will try.Please

address my 3 queries.Unless we address those three queries,we are never going

to reach any conclusion.

Rath: I shall patiently await your return, and when in India, please call me at

98104 49850 It will be a pleasure to meet with you.Rath: Are there signs in the

sky? I do not have much differences here regarding your understanding.Also to me

it is a model representing the link between Yogapurusha and Kalapurusha,as shri

Chandrahari has rightly explained.Also Sun the natural atmakaraka or soul is

the primary cause.But I have one difference.Kshethra and Rashi does not convey

the same meaning ,though they are having similar boundaries.

Rath: I don't think you have read my mail. I will reproduce it again for a quick

reference.You can see from the mail that you are saying exactly the same thing

that I am saying and this is what the Rishi's have said for ages, so to say

Chandrahari, your new guru said this and implying it wa said for the first time

is wrong. It is well know to every student of Jyotish that rashi really weans

weight and implies the amount of something. One of its sources is Rahu+Sikhi

and so on which is besides the point. Kshetra is sphere of influence and has a

different connotation altogether.

----------ref: previous mail----------