Guest guest Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Dear Chandra Hari, You don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction here. If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never said to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example). But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15 deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara karaka. In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude of the planet stays the same and amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to measure the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn determines chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu. I hope this makes some sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here. I am cc'ing this mail to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too. Best regards, Narasimha - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed while all other planets have their amsa as per the degrees traversed? There is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa must be based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based. That is the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special instruction to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical reason and that can only be the derivation of amsa with traversed longitudes at par with others. Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied. But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the planet in the sign. If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is not at 29 deg, ie. Sg amsa. But he has been in Ar for 29 deg and that is his experience in that sign. Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in terms of the longitude traversed in the sign) becomes the AK. Best regards, Narasimha PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with ancients are brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get time! - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if Rahu is Atmakaraka in Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa will be Dhanu? or Aries? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Namaste Chandra Hari, Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is Parasara's explicit directive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign was for 26 deg 7 min. That's higher than 25-9! Best regards, Narasimha - chandra ha! ri Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM Bug in Charakarakas? Bug in Charakarakas? Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 21 Li 47' 15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1 Le Sg Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp Mercury - BK 25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 Vi Le Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49" Aswi 4 Ar Cn Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn Sc Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn Le Rahu - AmK 3 Cp 53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06" Push 1 Cn Le Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi Ar Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar Kunda 24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le ! Sc How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with 25Vi09? chandra hari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Dear Chandra Hari, > I think you have not understood my doubt. > What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? > It is the longitude. YOU have not understood my point. I am saying that "longitude" alone is NOT the "qualifying factor" for chara karakatwa. That much is obvious from the directive of Parasara to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg. Plain longitude does not decide the chara karakatwa. It is the "longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" that determines the chara karakatwa. The way you derive this entity from the plain longitude value is different for Rahu and others. That does not mean Rahu at 1 deg in Aries is actually at 29 deg in Aries like you suggested. > If so when a special direction is given for longitude > measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well. The special direction is NOT given for "longitude measurement". The special direction is only for deriving the "longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" from the plain longitude value. The plain longitude value does not change whatsoever. Before you reply to mail again, kindly read the above carefully and give it some serious thought. It is very good to be a contrarian in thinking, but it helps to sometimes TRY to understand the teachings of Maharshis rather than directly trying to twist them or challenge them. Best regards, Narasimha - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 10:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Dear Narasimha, I think you have not understood my doubt. What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? It is the longitude. If so when a special direction is given for longitude measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well. Your logic says that the Navamsa is considered in reverse from Sg to Aries. But the factor remains as to why such a special instruction is given for Rahu? What about a retrograding planet entering a sign from East to West? And also the validity of a Karaka scheme excluding Rahu needs to be examined. If Rahu is taken why not Ketu? If Ketu is excluded can't we have a scheme excluding Rahu also. I think some people follow such a scheme. This is just speculation, I have not looked into BPH and studied the charakaraka part. chandra hari"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Chandra Hari, You don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction here. If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never said to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example). But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15 deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara karaka. In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude of the planet stays the same and! amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to measure the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn determines chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu. I hope this makes some sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here. I am cc'ing this mail to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too. Best regards, Narasimha - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed while all other planets have their amsa as per the degrees traversed? There is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa must be based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based. That is the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special instruction to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical reason and that can only be the derivation ! of amsa with traversed longitudes at par with others. Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied. But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the planet in the sign. If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is not at 29 deg, ie. Sg amsa. But he has bee! n in Ar for 29 deg and that is his experience in that sign. Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in terms of the longitude traversed in the sign) becomes the AK. Best regards, Narasimha PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with ancients are brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get time! - chandra hari To! : Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if Rahu is Atmakaraka in Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa will be Dhanu? or Aries? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Namaste Chandra Hari, Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is Parasara's explicit direc! tive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign was for 26 deg 7 min. That's higher than 25-9! Best regards, Narasimha - chandra ha! ri Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM Bug in Charakarakas? Bug in Charakarakas? Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 21 Li 47' 15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1 Le Sg Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp Mercury - BK 25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 ! Vi Le Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49" Aswi 4 Ar Cn Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn Sc Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn Le Rahu - AmK 3 Cp 53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06" Push 1 Cn Le Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi Ar Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar Kunda 24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le ! Sc How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with 25Vi09? chandra hari PersonalsSingle? There's someone we'd like you to meet.Lots of someones, actually. 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Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Dear Chandra Hari, I honestly don't think the point you made below is "kutarkam". IMHO, it is a genuine and valid point. If a planet enters Ar from 0Ar0 and goes in direct motion until 25Ar13, becomes retrograde and goes back to 21Ar25, it makes sense to take 21 deg 25 min to determine its chara karakatwa. But, if a planet enters Ar from 30Ar0 in retrograde motion and is at 27Ar23 at the time of birth, I am not sure if it is correct to take 27 deg 23 min when determining the chara karakatwa. If one suggests that 2 deg 37 min should be taken, there is some logic. Maharshis are not verbose. They expected intelligent students of the subject to infer things from their teachings. It is possible that Parasara expected us to infer the handling of retrograde planets that enter a sign from the end based on what he mentioned in the case of Rahu. I am not 100% sure either way and don't have a clear position at this point of time. There are many questions like this that we have to resolve in the coming decades. But my point is that you are unfairly characterizing the point that you are making as "kutarkam". It is not. It is a valid point that scholars need to consider. Atleast *I* will consider it in the coming years. Thanks for making it. Have a nice trip and I will talk to you later! May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:21 PM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Dear Narasimha, Sorry for my 'kutarkam' - you have not explained the Retros entering from East to West in the same fashion as Rahu. Any way I hope you understand as to how frustrating Kutarkam can be while explaining the wisdom of Siddhas. Learning is a 'process undertaken together by two explorerers of truth' as reflected in 'Aum sahanavavatu...'. Unless one makes a sincere effort to understand the other's view, always kutarkam can be made. <some unrelated stuff deleted> chandra hari "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Chandra Hari, > I think you have not understood my doubt. > What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? > It is the longitude. YOU have not understood my point. I am saying that "longitude" alone is NOT the "qualifying factor" for chara karakatwa. That much is obvious from the directive of Parasara to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg. Plain longitude does not decide the chara karakatwa. It is the "longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" that determines the chara karakatwa. The way you derive this entity from the plain longitude value is different for Rahu and others. That does not mean Rahu at 1 deg in Aries is actually at 29 deg in Aries like you suggested. > If so when a special direction is given for longitude > measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well. The special direction is NOT given for "longitude measurement". The special direction is only for deriving the "longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" from the plain longitude value. The plain longitude value does not change whatsoever. Before you reply to mail again, kindly read the above carefully and give it some serious thought. It is very good to be a contrarian in thinking, but it helps to sometimes TRY to understand the teachings of Maharshis rather than directly trying to twist them or challenge them. Best regards, Narasimha - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 10:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Dear Narasimha, I think you have not understood my doubt. What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? It is the longitude. If so when a special direction is given for longitude measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well. Your logic say! s that the Navamsa is considered in reverse from Sg to Aries. But the factor remains as to why such a special instruction is given for Rahu? What about a retrograding planet entering a sign from East to West? And also the validity of a Karaka scheme excluding Rahu needs to be examined. If Rahu is taken why not Ketu? If Ketu is excluded can't we have a scheme excluding Rahu also. I think some people follow such a scheme. This is just speculation, I have not looked into BPH and studied the charakaraka part. chandra hari"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Chandra Hari, Y! ou don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction here. If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never said to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example). But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15 deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter! enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara karaka. In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude of the planet stays the same and! amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to measure the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn determines chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu. I hope this makes some sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here. I am cc'ing this mail to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too. Best regards, Narasimha - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed while all other planets have their amsa as per the degrees traversed? There is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa must be based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based. That is the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special instruction to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical reason and that can only be the derivation ! of amsa with traversed longitudes at par with others. Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wro! te: Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied. But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the planet in the sign. If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is not at 29 deg, ie. Sg amsa. But he has bee! n in Ar for 29 deg and that is his experience in that sign. Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in terms of the longitude traversed in the sign) becomes the AK. Best regards, Narasimha PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with ancients are brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get time! - chandra hari To! : Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if Rahu is Atmakaraka in! Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa will be Dhanu? or Aries? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Namaste Chandra Hari, Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is Parasara's explicit direc! tive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign was for 26 deg 7 min. That's higher than 25-9! Best regards, Narasimha - chandra ha! ri Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM Bug in Charakarakas? Bug in Charakarakas? Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 21 Li 47' 15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1 Le Sg Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp Mercury - BK 25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 ! Vi Le Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49" Aswi 4 Ar Cn Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn Sc Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn LeRahu - AmK 3 Cp 53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06" Push 1 Cn Le Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi Ar Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar Kunda 24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le ! Sc How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with 25Vi09? chandra hari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2005 Report Share Posted December 5, 2005 37 min should be taken, there is some logic. Maharshis are not verbose. They expected intelligent students of the subject to infer things from their teachings. It is possible that Parasara expected us to infer the handling of retrograde planets that enter a sign from the end based on what he mentioned in the case of Rahu. I am not 100% sure either way and don't have a clear position at this point of time. There are many questions like this that we have to resolve in the coming decades. But my point is that you are unfairly characterizing the point that you are making as "kutarkam". It is not. It is a valid point that scholars need to consider. Atleast *I* will consider it in the coming years. Thanks for making it. Have a nice trip and I will talk to you later! May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao none; font-stretch: normal;">Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Dear Narasimha, Sorry for my 'kutarkam' - you have not explained the Retros entering from East to West in the same fashion as Rahu. Any way I hope you understand as to how frustrating Kutarkam can be while explaining the wisdom of Siddhas. Learning is a 'process undertaken together by two explorerers of truth' as reflected in 'Aum sahanavavatu...'. Unless one makes a sincere effort to understand the other's view, always kutarkam can be made. <some unrelated stuff deleted> chandra hari "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Chandra Hari, > I think you have not understood my doubt. > What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? > It is the longitude. YOU have not understood my point. I am saying that "longitude" alone is NOT the "qualifying factor" for chara karakatwa. That much is obvious from the directive of Parasara to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg. Plain longitude does not decide the chara karakatwa. It is the "longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" that determines the chara karakatwa. The way you derive this entity from the plain longitude value is different for Rahu and others. That does not mean Rahu at 1 deg in Aries is actually at 29 deg in Aries like you suggested. > If so when a special direction is given for longitude > measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well. The special direction is NOT given for "longitude measurement". The special direction is only for deriving the "longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" from the plain longitude value. The plain longitude value does not change whatsoever. Before you reply to mail again, kindly read the above carefully and give it some serious thought. It is very good to be a contrarian in thinking, but it helps to sometimes TRY to understand the teachings of Maharshis rather than directly trying to twist them or challenge them. Best regards, Narasimha - chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 10:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Dear Narasimha, I think you have not understood my doubt. What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? It is the longitude. If so when a special direction is given for longitude measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well. Your logic say! s that the Navamsa is considered in reverse from Sg to Aries. But the factor remains as to why such a special instruction is given for Rahu? What about a retrograding planet entering a sign from East to West? And also the validity of a Karaka scheme excluding Rahu needs to be examined. If Rahu is taken why not Ketu? If Ketu is excluded can't we have a scheme excluding Rahu also. I think some people follow such a scheme. This is just speculation, I have not looked into BPH and studied the charakaraka part. chandra hari"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Chandra Hari, Y! ou don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction here. If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never said to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example). But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15 deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter! enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara karaka. In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude of the planet stays the same and! amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to measure the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn determines chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu. I hope this makes some sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here. I am cc'ing this mail to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too. Best regards, Narasimha - -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">Subject: Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed while all other planets have their amsa as per the degrees traversed? There is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa must be based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based. That is the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special instruction to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical reason and that can only be the derivation ! of amsa with traversed longitudes at par with others. Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wro! te: Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied. But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the planet in the sign. If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is not at 29 deg, ie. Sg amsa. But he has bee! n in Ar for 29 deg and that is his experience in that sign. Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in terms of the longitude traversed in the sign) becomes the AK. Best regards, Narasimha PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with ancients are brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get time! - chandra hari To! : Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if Rahu is Atmakaraka in! Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa will be Dhanu? or Aries? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Namaste Chandra Hari, Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is Parasara's explicit direc! tive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign was for 26 deg 7 min. That's higher than 25-9! Best regards, Narasimha - chandra ha! ri font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM Bug in Charakarakas? Bug in Charakarakas? Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 21 Li 47' 15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1 Le Sg Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc 13pt;">Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp Mercury - BK 25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 ! Vi Le Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49" Aswi 4 Ar Cn Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn Sc 0pt 1in;">Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn LeRahu - AmK 3 Cp 53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06" Push 1 Cn Le Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi Ar Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar Kunda 24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le ! Sc How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with 25Vi09? chandra hari Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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