Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

Bug in Charakarakas?

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Dear Chandra Hari,

 

You don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction here.

 

If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never said to

subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various

divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be

found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example).

 

But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's

longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My

reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the

sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15

deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at

the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it

through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar

navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first

navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So

Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more

experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara

karaka.

 

In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude of the

planet stays the same and amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to measure

the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn determines

chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu.

 

I hope this makes some sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here.

 

I am cc'ing this mail to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra hari

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed while all other planets have

their amsa as per the degrees traversed?

 

There is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa

must be based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based.

That is the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special

instruction to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical

reason and that can only be the derivation of amsa with traversed longitudes at

par with others. Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation?

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied.

 

But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the planet in the sign.

 

If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is not at 29 deg, ie. Sg

amsa. But he has been in Ar for 29 deg and that is his experience in that sign.

Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in terms of the longitude

traversed in the sign) becomes the AK.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with ancients are

brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get time!

-

chandra hari

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if Rahu is Atmakaraka in

Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa will be Dhanu? or

Aries?

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Namaste Chandra Hari,

 

Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is Parasara's explicit

directive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign was for 26 deg 7 min.

That's higher than 25-9!

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra ha! ri

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM

Bug in Charakarakas?

Bug in Charakarakas?

 

Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa

 

Lagna 21 Li 47' 15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar

Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1 Le Sg

Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc

Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp

Mercury - BK 25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 Vi Le

Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49" Aswi 4 Ar Cn

Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn Sc

Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn Le

Rahu - AmK 3 Cp 53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq

Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06" Push 1 Cn Le

Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi Ar

Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar

Kunda 24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le ! Sc

 

How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with 25Vi09?

 

chandra hari

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Chandra Hari,

 

> I think you have not understood my doubt.

> What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka?

> It is the longitude.

 

YOU have not understood my point.

 

I am saying that "longitude" alone is NOT the "qualifying factor" for chara

karakatwa. That much is obvious from the directive of Parasara to subtract

Rahu's longitude from 30 deg.

 

Plain longitude does not decide the chara karakatwa. It is the "longitude

traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" that

determines the chara karakatwa. The way you derive this entity from the plain

longitude value is different for Rahu and others.

 

That does not mean Rahu at 1 deg in Aries is actually at 29 deg in Aries like you suggested.

 

> If so when a special direction is given for longitude

> measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well.

 

The special direction is NOT given for "longitude measurement". The special

direction is only for deriving the "longitude traversed by the planet in the

sign from the time it entered the sign" from the plain longitude value. The

plain longitude value does not change whatsoever.

 

Before you reply to mail again, kindly read the above carefully and give it some serious thought.

It is very good to be a contrarian in thinking, but it helps to sometimes TRY

to understand the teachings of Maharshis rather than directly trying to twist

them or challenge them.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra hari

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 10:59 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Dear Narasimha,

 

I think you have not understood my doubt. What is the qualifying factor of a

charakaraka? It is the longitude. If so when a special direction is given for

longitude measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well.

 

Your logic says that the Navamsa is considered in reverse from Sg to Aries. But

the factor remains as to why such a special instruction is given for Rahu? What

about a retrograding planet entering a sign from East to West? And also the

validity of a Karaka scheme excluding Rahu needs to be examined. If Rahu is

taken why not Ketu? If Ketu is excluded can't we have a scheme excluding Rahu

also. I think some people follow such a scheme. This is just speculation, I

have not looked into BPH and studied the charakaraka part.

 

chandra hari"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Chandra Hari,

 

You don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction here.

 

If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never said to

subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various

divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be

found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example).

 

But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's

longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My

reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the

sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15

deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at

the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it

through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar

navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first

navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So

Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more

experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara

karaka.

 

In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude of the

planet stays the same and! amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to

measure the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn

determines chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu.

 

I hope this makes some sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here.

 

I am cc'ing this mail to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra hari

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed while all other planets have

their amsa as per the degrees traversed?

 

There is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa

must be based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based.

That is the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special

instruction to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical

reason and that can only be the derivation ! of amsa with traversed longitudes

at par with others. Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation?

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied.

 

But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the planet in the sign.

 

If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is not at 29 deg, ie. Sg

amsa. But he has bee! n in Ar for 29 deg and that is his experience in that

sign. Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in terms of the

longitude traversed in the sign) becomes the AK.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with ancients are

brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get time!

-

chandra hari

To! : Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if Rahu is Atmakaraka in

Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa will be Dhanu? or

Aries?

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Namaste Chandra Hari,

 

Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is Parasara's explicit direc!

tive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign was for 26 deg 7 min.

That's higher than 25-9!

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra ha! ri

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM

Bug in Charakarakas?

Bug in Charakarakas?

 

Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa

 

Lagna 21 Li 47' 15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar

Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1 Le Sg

Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc

Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp

Mercury - BK 25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 ! Vi Le

Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49" Aswi 4 Ar Cn

Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn Sc

Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn Le

Rahu - AmK 3 Cp 53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq

Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06" Push 1 Cn Le

Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi Ar

Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar

Kunda 24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le ! Sc

 

How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with 25Vi09?

 

chandra hari

PersonalsSingle? There's someone we'd like you to meet.Lots of someones,

actually. Try Personals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Chandra Hari,

 

I honestly don't think the point you made below is "kutarkam". IMHO, it is a

genuine and valid point.

 

If a planet enters Ar from 0Ar0 and goes in direct motion until 25Ar13, becomes

retrograde and goes back to 21Ar25, it makes sense to take 21 deg 25 min to

determine its chara karakatwa. But, if a planet enters Ar from 30Ar0 in

retrograde motion and is at 27Ar23 at the time of birth, I am not sure if it is

correct to take 27 deg 23 min when determining the chara karakatwa. If one

suggests that 2 deg 37 min should be taken, there is some logic.

 

Maharshis are not verbose. They expected intelligent students of the subject to

infer things from their teachings. It is possible that Parasara expected us to

infer the handling of retrograde planets that enter a sign from the end based

on what he mentioned in the case of Rahu.

 

I am not 100% sure either way and don't have a clear position at this point of

time. There are many questions like this that we have to resolve in the coming

decades. But my point is that you are unfairly characterizing the point that

you are making as "kutarkam". It is not. It is a valid point that scholars need

to consider. Atleast *I* will consider it in the coming years. Thanks for making

it.

 

Have a nice trip and I will talk to you later!

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

-

chandra hari

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:21 PM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Dear Narasimha,

 

Sorry for my 'kutarkam' - you have not explained the Retros entering from East

to West in the same fashion as Rahu.

 

Any way I hope you understand as to how frustrating Kutarkam can be while

explaining the wisdom of Siddhas. Learning is a 'process undertaken together by

two explorerers of truth' as reflected in 'Aum sahanavavatu...'. Unless one

makes a sincere effort to understand the other's view, always kutarkam can be

made.

 

<some unrelated stuff deleted>

 

chandra hari

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Chandra Hari,

 

> I think you have not understood my doubt.

> What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka?

> It is the longitude.

 

YOU have not understood my point.

I am saying that "longitude" alone is NOT the "qualifying factor" for chara

karakatwa. That much is obvious from the directive of Parasara to subtract

Rahu's longitude from 30 deg.

 

Plain longitude does not decide the chara karakatwa. It is the "longitude

traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the sign" that

determines the chara karakatwa. The way you derive this entity from the plain

longitude value is different for Rahu and others.

 

That does not mean Rahu at 1 deg in Aries is actually at 29 deg in Aries like you suggested.

 

> If so when a special direction is given for longitude

> measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well.

 

The special direction is NOT given for "longitude measurement". The special

direction is only for deriving the "longitude traversed by the planet in the

sign from the time it entered the sign" from the plain longitude value. The

plain longitude value does not change whatsoever.

 

Before you reply to mail again, kindly read the above carefully and give it some serious thought.

It is very good to be a contrarian in thinking, but it helps to sometimes TRY

to understand the teachings of Maharshis rather than directly trying to twist

them or challenge them.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra hari

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 10:59 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Dear Narasimha,

 

I think you have not understood my doubt. What is the qualifying factor of a

charakaraka? It is the longitude. If so when a special direction is given for

longitude measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well.

 

Your logic say! s that the Navamsa is considered in reverse from Sg to Aries.

But the factor remains as to why such a special instruction is given for Rahu?

What about a retrograding planet entering a sign from East to West? And also

the validity of a Karaka scheme excluding Rahu needs to be examined. If Rahu is

taken why not Ketu? If Ketu is excluded can't we have a scheme excluding Rahu

also. I think some people follow such a scheme. This is just speculation, I

have not looked into BPH and studied the charakaraka part.

 

chandra hari"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Chandra Hari,

 

Y! ou don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction here.

 

If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never said to

subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various

divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be

found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example).

 

But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's

longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My

reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the

sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15

deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at

the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter! enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it

through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar

navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first

navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So

Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more

experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara

karaka.

 

In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude of the

planet stays the same and! amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to

measure the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn

determines chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu.

 

I hope this makes some sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here.

I am cc'ing this mail to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra hari

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed while all other planets have

their amsa as per the degrees traversed?

 

There is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa

must be based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based.

That is the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special

instruction to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical

reason and that can only be the derivation ! of amsa with traversed longitudes

at par with others. Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation?

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wro! te:

Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied.

 

But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the planet in the sign.

 

If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is not at 29 deg, ie. Sg

amsa. But he has bee! n in Ar for 29 deg and that is his experience in that

sign. Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in terms of the

longitude traversed in the sign) becomes the AK.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with ancients are

brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get time!

-

chandra hari

To! : Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM

Re: Bug in Charakarakas?

Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if Rahu is Atmakaraka

in! Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa will be Dhanu? or

Aries?

 

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Namaste Chandra Hari,

 

Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is Parasara's explicit direc!

tive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign was for 26 deg 7 min.

That's higher than 25-9!

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

chandra ha! ri

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM

Bug in Charakarakas?

Bug in Charakarakas?

 

Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa

 

Lagna 21 Li 47' 15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar

Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1 Le Sg

Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc

Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp

Mercury - BK 25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 ! Vi Le

Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49" Aswi 4 Ar Cn

Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn Sc

Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn LeRahu - AmK 3 Cp

53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq

Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06" Push 1 Cn Le

Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi Ar

Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar

Kunda 24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le ! Sc

 

How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with 25Vi09?

 

chandra hari

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 min should be taken, there is some logic. Maharshis are not verbose. They

expected intelligent students of the subject to infer things from their

teachings. It is possible that Parasara expected us to infer the handling of

retrograde planets that enter a sign from the end based on what he mentioned in

the case of Rahu. I am not 100% sure either way and don't have a clear

position at this point of time. There are many questions like this that we have

to resolve in the coming decades. But my point is that you are unfairly

characterizing the point that you are making as "kutarkam". It is not. It is a

valid point that scholars need to consider. Atleast *I* will consider it in the

coming years. Thanks for making it. Have a nice trip and I will talk to you

later! May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha

------------------------------- Free Jyotish

lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software

(Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----

Original Message ----- chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

none; font-stretch: normal;">Saturday, December 03, 2005 6:21 PM Subject:

Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Dear Narasimha, Sorry for my 'kutarkam' - you have

not explained the Retros entering from East to West in the same fashion as Rahu.

Any way I hope you understand as to how frustrating Kutarkam can be while

explaining the wisdom of Siddhas. Learning is a 'process undertaken together by

two explorerers of truth' as reflected in 'Aum sahanavavatu...'. Unless one

makes a sincere effort to understand the other's view, always kutarkam can be

made. <some unrelated stuff deleted> chandra hari "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

<pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Chandra Hari, > I think you have not

understood my doubt. > What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? > It is

the longitude. YOU have not understood my point. I am saying that

"longitude" alone is NOT the "qualifying factor" for chara karakatwa. That much

is obvious from the directive of Parasara to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30

deg. Plain longitude does not decide the chara karakatwa. It is the

"longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the

sign" that determines the chara karakatwa. The way you derive this entity from

the plain longitude value is different for Rahu and others. That does not

mean Rahu at 1 deg in Aries is actually at 29 deg in Aries like you suggested.

> If so when a special direction is given for longitude > measurement why not

use it for Navamsa as well. The special direction is NOT given for

"longitude measurement". The special direction is only for deriving the

"longitude traversed by the planet in the sign from the time it entered the

sign" from the plain longitude value. The plain longitude value does not change

whatsoever. Before you reply to mail again, kindly read the above carefully

and give it some serious thought. It is very good to be a contrarian in

thinking, but it helps to sometimes TRY to understand the teachings of

Maharshis rather than directly trying to twist them or challenge them. Best

regards, Narasimha -

chandra hari Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005

10:59 AM Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Dear Narasimha, I think you have

not understood my doubt. What is the qualifying factor of a charakaraka? It is

the longitude. If so when a special direction is given for longitude

measurement why not use it for Navamsa as well. Your logic say! s that the

Navamsa is considered in reverse from Sg to Aries. But the factor remains as to

why such a special instruction is given for Rahu? What about a retrograding

planet entering a sign from East to West? And also the validity of a Karaka

scheme excluding Rahu needs to be examined. If Rahu is

taken why not Ketu? If Ketu is excluded can't we have a scheme excluding Rahu

also. I think some people follow such a scheme. This is just speculation, I

have not looked into BPH and studied the charakaraka part. chandra

hari"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Chandra Hari, Y! ou

don't seem to understand a simple point. There is absolutely no contradiction

here. If Rahu is at 1 deg in Aries, he IS at 1 deg in Aries. Parasara never

said to subtract Rahu's longitude from 30 deg to find his position in various

divisional charts. Thus, his position in various divisional charts MUST be

found by taking his longitude as is (i.e. 1 deg in Aries in your example).

But, when teaching chara karakas, Parasara explicitly taught that Rahu's

longitude should be subtracted from 30 deg. We can only speculate why. My

reading is that chara karakatwa is based on the experience of the planet in the

sign occupied by it, measured in terms of degrees traversed. If Jupiter is at 15

deg in Aries, he has traversed through 4.5 navamsas (or 15 deg) in Ar and is at

the middle of the 5th navamsa. Jupiter! enters Ar thru Ar navamsa and exits it

through Sg navamsa. OTOH, Rahu enters Ar thru Sg navamsa and exits thru Ar

navamsa. If he is at 1 deg in Ar, i.e. in Ar navamsa itself (i.e. the first

navamsa of Ar), it is the 9th navamsa being traversed by Rahu in the sign. So

Rahu has experienced more navamsas (or more degrees) in the sign and is more

experienced than Jupiter in the sign and qualified to become a higher chara

karaka. In other words, no change is affected in the longitude. The longitude

of the planet stays the same and! amsa positions stay the same. Only the way to

measure the planet's experience in the sign from the longitude, which in turn

determines chara karakatwa, is different for Rahu. I hope this makes some

sense to you. I see absolutely no contradiction here. I am cc'ing this mail

to the list, so that others may have had a similar doubt too. Best regards,

Narasimha -

-moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial;

-moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal;

font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;

font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">chandra hari Narasimha

P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 2:37 AM

font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt;

line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">Subject:

Re: Bug in Charakarakas? Why Rahu's amsa is not as per the degrees traversed

while all other planets have their amsa as per the degrees traversed? There

is a contradiction that puts a question mark on the related verse. Amsa must be

based on the same longitude as the one over which Karakatva is based. That is

the practice with other planets. In fact the purpose of a special instruction

to derive longitude as traversed degrees itself needs some logical reason and

that can only be the derivation ! of amsa with traversed longitudes at par with

others.

Can't we go for a logically correct interpretation? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

<pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wro! te: Karaka's amsa is based on the exact amsa occupied.

But the karakatwa is based on how many degrees were already traversed by the

planet in the sign. If Rahu is at 1 deg, he IS at 1 deg and Ar amsa. He is

not at 29 deg, ie. Sg amsa. But he has bee! n in Ar for 29 deg and that is his

experience in that sign. Planet with most experience in the sign (measured in

terms of the longitude traversed in the sign) becomes the AK. Best regards,

Narasimha PS: Your points on ATP and measurement accuracy issues with

ancients are brilliant and deserve a serious reply. I WILL reply when I get

time! - chandra hari To! : Narasimha

P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:59 AM Re: Bug in

Charakarakas? Amsa is also taken with the same Longitude? For example if

Rahu is Atmakaraka in! Mesha at 1 degree taken as 30 - 1 = 29 degrees Karakamsa

will be Dhanu? or Aries? "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

Namaste Chandra Hari, Rahu's longitude is subtracted from 30 deg. That is

Parasara's explicit direc! tive. So 3 deg 53 min means Rahu's stay in the sign

was for 26 deg 7 min. That's higher than 25-9! Best regards, Narasimha

- chandra ha! ri

font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:

normal;">Narasimha P.V.R. Rao Saturday, December 03, 2005 12:16 AM

Bug in Charakarakas? Bug in Charakarakas? Body

Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 21 Li 47'

15.88" Visa 1 Li Ar Sun - AK 29 Le 31' 55.46" UPha 1

Le Sg Moon - MK 24 Ar 41' 49.58" Bhar 4 Ar Sc

13pt;">Mars - PK 11 Li 33' 28.94" Swat 2 Li Cp Mercury - BK

25 Vi 09' 00.50" Chit 1 ! Vi Le Jupiter ® - GK 11 Ar 11' 56.49"

Aswi 4 Ar Cn Venus - PiK 13 Cn 35' 34.66" Push 4 Cn

Sc

0pt 1in;">Saturn - DK 4 Cn 21' 26.19" Push 1 Cn LeRahu - AmK

3 Cp 53' 17.06" USha 3 Cp Aq Ketu 3 Cn 53' 17.06"

Push 1 Cn Le Maandi 10 Vi 52' 13.36" Hast 1 Vi

Ar Pranapada Lagna 2 Ar 37' 12.33" Aswi 1 Ar Ar Kunda

24 Le 48' 26.40" PPha 4 Le !

Sc How can Rah! u be Amatyakaraka with 3 Cp 53 while Budha is BK with

25Vi09? chandra hari

Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...