To dakshinamoorty: RE. Why Ketu cannot be a karaka?

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

 

Sorry for the query again. Can you please explain the below

said with an example? I am afraid, I didnt get it.

 

Say, Moon is in 25 degree

and Mercury also has longitude of 25 degree. And lets suppose these

are the planets with highest longitude.

 

Now according to what is said in scriptures, is Rahu the Atma Karaka?

Then which is Amk? Wont this problem arise again? I dont understand

how the arrival of Rahu is going to solve this problem.

Or is it that there can be two AK's and Rahu comes in the serial

order depending on its degree?

 

Kindly clarify.

 

Regards,

Jyothi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, dakshinamoorthi r

<dakshinastrologer> wrote:

>

> Dear Shri. P.V.R.Narasimha Rao,

>

> Shri.Mohan Ram - one of the members of this forum has

> forwarded a mail that he seems to have written to you

> on your post to me. As this is consistent with my

> views, I am posting it in the vedic astrology groups

> forum for the benefit of all members.

>

> One thing I wish to add is that, apart from Rahu,

> other natural sthira karakas will also attain

> karakatwas if more than 2 planets share the same

> karakatwa and there arises a deficiency of karaka

> planets.

>

> May Divine Light show us the right way.

>

> Blessed be.

> --- mohan ram <mohanraaam> wrote:

>

> > Respected Guruji,

> >

> > I have answered Shri. P.V.R.Narasimha Rao's post

> > based

> > on my thoughts though he had addressed the post to

> > you. I am sending the same message to you by

> > pasting

> > it because I forgot to CC to you when I posted it.

> > Kindly go through the reply and correct me wherever

> > I

> > am wrong.

> >

> > Humble pranams.

> >

> > copy of the message text is as follows:

> > "

> > Dear Shri. Narasimha Rao,

> >

> > When to take 7 karakatwas and when to 8 karakatwas

> > are

> > mentioned in the karakatwa adhyaya of BHPS Chapter

> > 32.

> > There is no ambiguity regarding what the Maha muni

> > Parashara thinks about the matter. I will translate

> > the opening verses of the chapter on karakatwas for

> > the benefit of members of this list:

> >

> > Verses 1 and 2:

> > " I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable

> > from

> > among the 7 Planets, viz. Sun to Saturn. Some say,

> > that Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state

> > of similarity in terms of longitude between (two)

> > Planets. Yet some say, that the 8 Planets, including

> > Rahu, will have to be considered irrespective of

> > such

> > a state."

> >

> > It is clear that the rishi is of the view that the 7

> > planets from Sun to Saturn are to be considered for

> > assigning chara karakatwas.

> > He also mentions about Rahu becoming a karaka based

> > on

> > two different views (which is hotly debated by

> > learned

> > astrologers of this day!) which seem to have existed

> > even in his days!

> >

> > Some verses later (17th verse in Chapter 32 to be

> > precise).... he says " If two Planets have the same

> > longitude, both become the same Karak, in which case

> > there will be a deficit of one Karak. In that

> > circumstance consider constant significator in the

> > context of benefic/malefic influence for the

> > concerned

> > relative."

> >

> > While assigning the karakas of 12 houses, Rishi

> > Parashara has clearly left out Rahu and has

> > distributed the karakatwas only among the 7 planets.

> >

> > Muni Parashara's works are verbose as Shri.Narasimha

> > Rao has said and need no complicated logic to work

> > out. Jaimini Maharishi on the other hand, is very

> > cryptic and his verses are open to different

> > interpretations! As Jaimini Maharishi is the

> > disciple

> > of Sage Veda Vyasa who himself was a direct

> > descendant

> > of Sage Parasara, we can safely assume that when he

> > has cryptically indicated something in his sutras,

> > we

> > may get benefitted by referring to sage Parashara's

> > works for a better clarity.

> >

> > By the way, with all respect to Pt. Sanjay Rath, I

> > do

> > not know, how he says that 7 karakas are to be taken

> > for non-human (or does he mean superhuman souls and

> > avatars?) horoscopes and 8 karakas for all other

> > horoscopes!

> >

> > To put it in a nutshell, my understanding is that

> > the

> > karakatwas are distributed ONLY among the seven

> > planets from Sun to Saturn as per my reading of both

> > classics viz. BHPS and Jaimini Sutras. Rahu comes

> > in

> > ONLY when two planets are in exactly the same

> > degrees

> > and hence acquiring the same karakatwa and then,

> > Rahu

> > fills up the deficient karakatwa."

> >

> > Blessed be.

> >

> > Send instant messages to your online friends

> > http://in.messenger.

> >

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://in.messenger.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ms.Jyothi,

 

In the instance quoted in your post, the two planets with the same

longitude (as you have mentioned that they have the highest

longitudes), both become Atmarakas. The other planets will attain

karakatwas in descending order of their longitudes. So, one

karakatwas will be left out without a proper karaka (the sthri or Dara

karakatwa). Rahu will become the karaka for that. I repeat, kindly

go through BPHS karakatwa adhyaya (Chapter 32) for more clarification.

If 3 planets attain the highest longitude, then all 3 will share the

karakatwa for atmakaraka, the other planets will attain chara

karakatwa in descending order of their longitudes. In this case,

there will be 2 karakatwas not covered by the 7 major planets. For the

6th karakatwa, i.e. Gnati karakatwa, Rahu will become the karaka. The

Dhara karakatwa - the 7th karakatwa will be filled by the usual sthira

karaka i.e. Venus.

 

Now, I will give you a poser.... the shastras have mentioned the 7th

karakatwa as "Dhara karakatwa" or even more precisely "Sthree

karakatwa" meaning "Wife". Now, what do you do for a female horoscope?

If it had been mentioned as "Kalathra karakatwa" then you can take it

as spouse, but the maharishis have used the term "Sthree karaka"

implying karaka for female partner! Think of that and try to arrive

at a logical conclusion......It will be helpful to you if you can find

the answer yourself!

 

Blessed be.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

 

 

Can you make it little more clear. This is the order of Krakas.

Right?

 

1. Atma (Soul)

2. Amatya (Intellect/Mind)

3. Bhratri (Siblings)

4. Matri (Mother)

5. Putra (Children)

6. Gnati (Collateral relatives)

7. Dara (Spouse)

 

 

Now considering 7 planet scheme and if three planets are

having the same longitude, upto 5th as you said will be filled up.

The 6th position will be filled up by Rahu according to the

longitude? Suppose Rahu is having the least longitude among all,

still will it occupy the 6th and NOT 7th? I would like to know how

rahu is placed. Especially if venus is one of the atma karakas,what

will be the seventh?

 

As to your question, I am not adept in all these. But your

question arises many more doubts.

Let me first clarify those.

1. Havent Sasthras always mentioned things wrt male?

 

2. Now, whether it is male or female, the darakraka will be the one

that comes in the order of longitude. Correct? Else what is the

importance of longitude? When you ask which will be darakaraka for

female , it seems like something else is given importance rather than

longitude.

 

With what I know, I have heard of only one darapada, and that is the

arudha of 7th. May be for male and female it denotes the darakaraka.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

Regards,

Jyothi

 

 

vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer"

<dakshinastrologer> wrote:

>

> Dear Ms.Jyothi,

>

> In the instance quoted in your post, the two planets with the same

> longitude (as you have mentioned that they have the highest

> longitudes), both become Atmarakas. The other planets will attain

> karakatwas in descending order of their longitudes. So, one

> karakatwas will be left out without a proper karaka (the sthri or

Dara

> karakatwa). Rahu will become the karaka for that. I repeat,

kindly

> go through BPHS karakatwa adhyaya (Chapter 32) for more

clarification.

> If 3 planets attain the highest longitude, then all 3 will share

the

> karakatwa for atmakaraka, the other planets will attain chara

> karakatwa in descending order of their longitudes. In this case,

> there will be 2 karakatwas not covered by the 7 major planets. For

the

> 6th karakatwa, i.e. Gnati karakatwa, Rahu will become the karaka.

The

> Dhara karakatwa - the 7th karakatwa will be filled by the usual

sthira

> karaka i.e. Venus.

>

> Now, I will give you a poser.... the shastras have mentioned the

7th

> karakatwa as "Dhara karakatwa" or even more precisely "Sthree

> karakatwa" meaning "Wife". Now, what do you do for a female

horoscope?

> If it had been mentioned as "Kalathra karakatwa" then you can take

it

> as spouse, but the maharishis have used the term "Sthree karaka"

> implying karaka for female partner! Think of that and try to

arrive

> at a logical conclusion......It will be helpful to you if you can

find

> the answer yourself!

>

> Blessed be.

>

[Guest guest]

Your doubt:

 

> Now considering 7 planet scheme and if three planets are

> having the same longitude, upto 5th as you said will be filled up.

"The 6th position will be filled up by Rahu according to the

> longitude? Suppose Rahu is having the least longitude among all,

> still will it occupy the 6th and NOT 7th? I would like to know how

> rahu is placed."

 

Answer is: Yes. Rahu will occuy the 6th and not the 7th position even

if he occupies the least longitude. If you follow the school of

thought that Rahu cannot be atmakaraka, he will fill the first vacant

karakatwa after all the major 7 planets have become karakas for the

previous karakatwas. After Rahu, the nisargika karakas attain their

respective karakatwas IRRESPECTIVE of their longitudes.

 

There is another school of thought which allow Rahu to be an atmakara.

In this school of thought, if Rahu happens to have the highest

longitude, he can become the atmakaraka. I am saying this for academic

purposes and not because I to this view.

 

The comparison of longitudes of planets while assigning karakatwas is

to check how many degrees they have traversed in a sign. As Rahu and

Ketu travel in retrograde motion, Rahu and Ketu are deemed to have

the least longitude (for purpose of comparing longitudes to assign

karakatwas) at the end of a sign due to their retrograde motion.

 

Your query:

"Especially if venus is one of the atma karakas,what

> will be the seventh?

>

"

 

My answer is: Venus will be the 7th karaka even if he is the atma

karaka, or even is he shares anyother karakatwa with another planet

due to lesser longitude than the atmakaraka because he is the sthira

karaka for 7th karakatwa (wife). The rishi's dictum is clear leaving

no room for doubts.

 

As to my poser to you (regarding the terminology darakaraka or sthree

karaka), it was to set you thinking. Incidentally, "sthree" means

"lady" in sanskrit. I have seen many foreigners of ISKON sampradaya

assiduously learning Sanskrit so that can grasp the import of

scriptures better. I would recommend you to do the same so that you

can understand the intricacies of astrological classics. You will

find a whole new milleu opening before you.

 

One final word..... I am not going to answer any other post on this

matter. The rishis words are clear and comprehensible to everyone

(Jaimini's sutras may be cryptic, but BPHS is very clear and verbose.

Kindly refer that). If AFTER going through the works you still have

doubts, then the doubt is legitimate. Study the classical work, try

to work out your doubts yourself, and then if you are not able to

grasp the subject pose your doubts. Astrology requires patience and

application in addition to analytical skills. Mere analytical skills

will lead one nowhere. Reading the classics in their full form is a

very good exercise for patience!

 

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I would recommend a more systematic

learning to you. Approach a Pandit with whom you feel comfortable and

learnt the subject. All the doubts you have posed here are valid if

put your own personal teacher who knows your level of understanding

and knowledge of the subject. I for one, was answering you assuming

that you are an expert in this field and so, when some basic doubts

were raised, it was surprising for me! We cannot invest our time on

clearing basic doubts which can very well be cleared by a patient

study of the original works by yourself.

 

A basic grasp of the subject based on classics (It can be anything of

your choice... Jaimini sutras, BPHS, or some later astrological

digests like Brihat Jatakam, Hora Sara, Saravali, or whatever) is

necessary before venturing on research. I do not mean to be

condescending to you and pardon me if my post gives that impression.

What I am stating is a plain fact.

 

Blessed be.

 

 

 

 

>

>

> Can you make it little more clear. This is the order of

Krakas.

> Right?

>

> 1. Atma (Soul)

> 2. Amatya (Intellect/Mind)

> 3. Bhratri (Siblings)

> 4. Matri (Mother)

> 5. Putra (Children)

> 6. Gnati (Collateral relatives)

> 7. Dara (Spouse)

>

>

>

> As to your question, I am not adept in all these. But your

> question arises many more doubts.

> Let me first clarify those.

> 1. Havent Sasthras always mentioned things wrt male?

>

> 2. Now, whether it is male or female, the darakraka will be the one

> that comes in the order of longitude. Correct? Else what is the

> importance of longitude? When you ask which will be darakaraka for

> female , it seems like something else is given importance rather

than

> longitude.

>

> With what I know, I have heard of only one darapada, and that is

the

> arudha of 7th. May be for male and female it denotes the darakaraka.

>

> Please correct me if I am wrong.

>

>

> Regards,

> Jyothi

>

>

> vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer"

> <dakshinastrologer> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ms.Jyothi,

> >

> > In the instance quoted in your post, the two planets with the same

> > longitude (as you have mentioned that they have the highest

> > longitudes), both become Atmarakas. The other planets will attain

> > karakatwas in descending order of their longitudes. So, one

> > karakatwas will be left out without a proper karaka (the sthri or

> Dara

> > karakatwa). Rahu will become the karaka for that. I repeat,

> kindly

> > go through BPHS karakatwa adhyaya (Chapter 32) for more

> clarification.

> > If 3 planets attain the highest longitude, then all 3 will share

> the

> > karakatwa for atmakaraka, the other planets will attain chara

> > karakatwa in descending order of their longitudes. In this case,

> > there will be 2 karakatwas not covered by the 7 major planets. For

> the

> > 6th karakatwa, i.e. Gnati karakatwa, Rahu will become the karaka.

> The

> > Dhara karakatwa - the 7th karakatwa will be filled by the usual

> sthira

> > karaka i.e. Venus.

> >

> > Now, I will give you a poser.... the shastras have mentioned the

> 7th

> > karakatwa as "Dhara karakatwa" or even more precisely "Sthree

> > karakatwa" meaning "Wife". Now, what do you do for a female

> horoscope?

> > If it had been mentioned as "Kalathra karakatwa" then you can take

> it

> > as spouse, but the maharishis have used the term "Sthree karaka"

> > implying karaka for female partner! Think of that and try to

> arrive

> > at a logical conclusion......It will be helpful to you if you can

> find

> > the answer yourself!

> >

> > Blessed be.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

 

Thanks for taking your valuable time for clearing my

doubts. You need not write anything more on this. And I wont trouble

you or anybody with my basic doubts. Let me see if I can get BPHS.

(BTW, I have read the English translation of BPHS from net.)

 

 

Regards,

Jyothi

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer"

<dakshinastrologer> wrote:

>

> Your doubt:

>

> > Now considering 7 planet scheme and if three planets are

> > having the same longitude, upto 5th as you said will be filled

up.

> "The 6th position will be filled up by Rahu according to the

> > longitude? Suppose Rahu is having the least longitude among all,

> > still will it occupy the 6th and NOT 7th? I would like to know

how

> > rahu is placed."

>

> Answer is: Yes. Rahu will occuy the 6th and not the 7th position

even

> if he occupies the least longitude. If you follow the school of

> thought that Rahu cannot be atmakaraka, he will fill the first

vacant

> karakatwa after all the major 7 planets have become karakas for the

> previous karakatwas. After Rahu, the nisargika karakas attain

their

> respective karakatwas IRRESPECTIVE of their longitudes.

>

> There is another school of thought which allow Rahu to be an

atmakara.

> In this school of thought, if Rahu happens to have the highest

> longitude, he can become the atmakaraka. I am saying this for

academic

> purposes and not because I to this view.

>

> The comparison of longitudes of planets while assigning karakatwas

is

> to check how many degrees they have traversed in a sign. As Rahu

and

> Ketu travel in retrograde motion, Rahu and Ketu are deemed to have

> the least longitude (for purpose of comparing longitudes to assign

> karakatwas) at the end of a sign due to their retrograde motion.

>

> Your query:

> "Especially if venus is one of the atma karakas,what

> > will be the seventh?

> >

> "

>

> My answer is: Venus will be the 7th karaka even if he is the atma

> karaka, or even is he shares anyother karakatwa with another planet

> due to lesser longitude than the atmakaraka because he is the

sthira

> karaka for 7th karakatwa (wife). The rishi's dictum is clear

leaving

> no room for doubts.

>

> As to my poser to you (regarding the terminology darakaraka or

sthree

> karaka), it was to set you thinking. Incidentally, "sthree" means

> "lady" in sanskrit. I have seen many foreigners of ISKON

sampradaya

> assiduously learning Sanskrit so that can grasp the import of

> scriptures better. I would recommend you to do the same so that

you

> can understand the intricacies of astrological classics. You will

> find a whole new milleu opening before you.

>

> One final word..... I am not going to answer any other post on this

> matter. The rishis words are clear and comprehensible to everyone

> (Jaimini's sutras may be cryptic, but BPHS is very clear and

verbose.

> Kindly refer that). If AFTER going through the works you still

have

> doubts, then the doubt is legitimate. Study the classical work,

try

> to work out your doubts yourself, and then if you are not able to

> grasp the subject pose your doubts. Astrology requires patience

and

> application in addition to analytical skills. Mere analytical

skills

> will lead one nowhere. Reading the classics in their full form is a

> very good exercise for patience!

>

> I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I would recommend a more

systematic

> learning to you. Approach a Pandit with whom you feel comfortable

and

> learnt the subject. All the doubts you have posed here are valid

if

> put your own personal teacher who knows your level of understanding

> and knowledge of the subject. I for one, was answering you

assuming

> that you are an expert in this field and so, when some basic doubts

> were raised, it was surprising for me! We cannot invest our time

on

> clearing basic doubts which can very well be cleared by a patient

> study of the original works by yourself.

>

> A basic grasp of the subject based on classics (It can be anything

of

> your choice... Jaimini sutras, BPHS, or some later astrological

> digests like Brihat Jatakam, Hora Sara, Saravali, or whatever) is

> necessary before venturing on research. I do not mean to be

> condescending to you and pardon me if my post gives that

impression.

> What I am stating is a plain fact.

>

> Blessed be.

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Can you make it little more clear. This is the order of

> Krakas.

> > Right?

> >

> > 1. Atma (Soul)

> > 2. Amatya (Intellect/Mind)

> > 3. Bhratri (Siblings)

> > 4. Matri (Mother)

> > 5. Putra (Children)

> > 6. Gnati (Collateral relatives)

> > 7. Dara (Spouse)

> >

> >

> >

> > As to your question, I am not adept in all these. But your

> > question arises many more doubts.

> > Let me first clarify those.

> > 1. Havent Sasthras always mentioned things wrt male?

> >

> > 2. Now, whether it is male or female, the darakraka will be the

one

> > that comes in the order of longitude. Correct? Else what is the

> > importance of longitude? When you ask which will be darakaraka

for

> > female , it seems like something else is given importance rather

> than

> > longitude.

> >

> > With what I know, I have heard of only one darapada, and that is

> the

> > arudha of 7th. May be for male and female it denotes the

darakaraka.

> >

> > Please correct me if I am wrong.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Jyothi

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer"

> > <dakshinastrologer> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Ms.Jyothi,

> > >

> > > In the instance quoted in your post, the two planets with the

same

> > > longitude (as you have mentioned that they have the highest

> > > longitudes), both become Atmarakas. The other planets will

attain

> > > karakatwas in descending order of their longitudes. So, one

> > > karakatwas will be left out without a proper karaka (the sthri

or

> > Dara

> > > karakatwa). Rahu will become the karaka for that. I repeat,

> > kindly

> > > go through BPHS karakatwa adhyaya (Chapter 32) for more

> > clarification.

> > > If 3 planets attain the highest longitude, then all 3 will

share

> > the

> > > karakatwa for atmakaraka, the other planets will attain chara

> > > karakatwa in descending order of their longitudes. In this

case,

> > > there will be 2 karakatwas not covered by the 7 major planets.

For

> > the

> > > 6th karakatwa, i.e. Gnati karakatwa, Rahu will become the

karaka.

> > The

> > > Dhara karakatwa - the 7th karakatwa will be filled by the usual

> > sthira

> > > karaka i.e. Venus.

> > >

> > > Now, I will give you a poser.... the shastras have mentioned

the

> > 7th

> > > karakatwa as "Dhara karakatwa" or even more precisely "Sthree

> > > karakatwa" meaning "Wife". Now, what do you do for a female

> > horoscope?

> > > If it had been mentioned as "Kalathra karakatwa" then you can

take

> > it

> > > as spouse, but the maharishis have used the term "Sthree

karaka"

> > > implying karaka for female partner! Think of that and try to

> > arrive

> > > at a logical conclusion......It will be helpful to you if you

can

> > find

> > > the answer yourself!

> > >

> > > Blessed be.

> > >

> >

>