Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc.

February 21, 2006

Dear Bharat ji Namaskar

There is no amount of hatred.If rosha is present,it is only for a higher

cause.With time and grace let us be able to learn and control.Thanks for

your kind words and let the almighty make our journey easier.

>>Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the

resultant Jiva? I would love >>to hear your views. It could be both and

each would raise a volley of questions. If it is the >>resultant jiva,

then, why study the divisional chart >>at all. Why, even, go to the

Navamsha? >>If it is the Sthoola Sarira, then, why use it too much as

most can be gathered >>through the >>divisional chart?

Good questions.

I would request you to re-read what you might have already read

regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our doubts.Think

of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the

chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna had

taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false

identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations of

the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run

wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an initial

operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial

instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through

manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on

senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if it

is weak as per jataka.

Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot has no life or movement if

it is devoid of the above said entities -collectively called as Sookshma

shareera.

Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us-

''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue atma

joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think of

the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot which

is according to the direction from manas on to the horses(indriyas)).A

musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas

dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun gives

Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of one

entity will result in the strength of the other.

Thus coming back to your question -There are no multiple charts.As the

brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12

Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma sambandha)

as a seperate entity(chart).Rashi the structure(chariot) is

Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same as one bhava, though with a small

conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got through planets,which in

turn is from soorya) and other sookshama shareera entities for

functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with

Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas.

One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it from a

30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 degree

span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When we see

from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we see

from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the same

Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of seeing

Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we are

trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality there are

only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and 9

planetary entities.

You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as

bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in isolation,but

only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of

mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in relation to

other entities.Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital

energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through navamsha

sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See the

bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to study

results.

Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of Atma

and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC approach

alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a patient

ear.You can ofcourse still disagree,provided you have supporting logic.

Regds

Pradeep

vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

<hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Pradeep

>

> First of all I must say what I have not said so far - You can make

people

> think and also make them study the classics before they reply to you.

I

> admire your questions and even if you are not open to existence of

certain

> ideas (due to lack of reference in classics or logic or reasoning

regarding

> the idea or else), your approach is worthy of praise.

>

> Before we begin this journey, a small prayer:

>

> OM SAHANA VAVATU SAHANA BHUNATTU, SAHA VIRYAM KARAWAVAHAI

> TEJASVINAVADITAMASTU MA VIDVISHAVAHAI

> OM SHANTI ! SHANTI ! SHANTI !

>

> * Together may be be protected

> Together may we be nourished

> Together may we work with great energy

> May our journey together be brilliant and effective

> May there be no hatred between us

>

> *

> Now, back to our discussion. Let us not discuss charts here and

understand

> the concepts:

>

> Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones too are

> part of sookshma shareera.

> I agreed with you even in my previous email. So no contention over

here.

>

> In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous entities,for eg

> sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas and

> budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone

cannot

> make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The order

or

> samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins Manas,Manas

to

> Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation ''subjects''),then

> vishaya sukha etc.

>

> There are so many concepts in this one paragraph that I will need

couple of

> days to explain. Let me make some humble beginnings:

>

> 1. Action is not only that of the Sthoola Sarira. Each thought is

likened to

> an Action. To understand this, think of a person who becomes fearful

of an

> external situation. The fear is in the mind and it causes the

discrimination

> to vanish (vijnanamaya kosha) and it has effects on the (pranamaya

kosha)

> and through it on the (annamaya kosha). But if you think, fear is only

in

> the Mind. It is the action of the mind. Confluence of numerous

entities is

> fine, but, Veda is clear about cause and effect and in that we can see

what

> is going on in the manomaya kosha, that may or may not fructify into

actual

> physical action. If there was a way, we could understand that, would

it not

> be extremely helpful for any native?

>

> 2. Pranas and Jnana Indriyas have a great meaning alone. Blockages to

prana

> will give rise to disease in the Sthoola Sarira. I am taking a

hypothetical

> example - let's suppose one varga defines the functioning of apana and

that

> is showing defects, would it not mean directly that Sthoola Sarira

will such

> a disease? I think, through the varga we are going into the roots of

things.

> Remember what the Upanishad say, Prana prevade the sthoola sarira.

This

> means they are independent of the Sthoola Sarira and secondly, they

are not

> necessarily contained within the Sthoola Sarira. Now if some is deaf

and

> dumb or blind, the influence of those indriyas in not in the manomaya

kosha.

> How can you say with sureity that Prana and indriyas alone do not have

any

> meaning? That there are inter dependencies is fine, but causes lie

deep

> within through the kosas.

>

> 3. All entities may not act in coordination. This is the imbalance

through

> the manomaya kosha or pranamaya kosha.

>

> 4. Atma never joins the Manas. Atma is forever free. Atman is Brahman

> (Mahavakya). Then, why do we call Atman and Brahman while referring it

to

> the same thing. It is because of our own limited thinking. Atman is

referred

> to the Truth while talking of the Self. While Brahman is spoken of as

the

> Truth while talking of the entirety. This does not make them different

> entities.

> Atma is Omnipresent and Omniscient, and therefore, it enlivens as

cognition

> in the mind. Mind is the collection of thoughts. It is born out of the

> thought that I am not the whole. This "I" thought is the ego.

Therefore, ego

> takes a collection of thoughts and calls it one's mind. How is ego

evident -

> throught the light of Atma, how is mind evident - through the light of

Atma.

>

> Remember the verse of the Upanishad and of Aparokshanubhuti - Asti

bhati

> priyam rupam, naam ........ Aadhatriyam brahma rupam jagat rupam tato

dvayam

> (please do not mind my english transliteration). The existence,

knowledge

> and bliss of anything is of the nature of Brahman, whereas, nama and

rupa is

> the nature of the jagat (world). So that mind exists, and thought

exists -

> the existence is the quality of Atman but that we define a thought and

give

> a name to it, is born out of maya.

>

> Therefore, for Atma there is no mind. For the mind, it has to

disengage from

> the desiring activities to the entity that enlivens it, to have some

idea of

> Atma. (This is a very basic idea here just to intellectually have an

idea of

> Atman)

>

> Atma just goes where the manas is taking him.

> Atman prevades vijnanamaya kosha and all objects and beings. Mind

cannot

> take it anywhere. Where mind goes, Atman is there already (many

references

> in Upanishad).

>

> 5. Mind is the controller of Indriyas in light of the Atman. Without

its

> light, indriyas would go out of control. For a moment, let us bring

Dharma

> instead of Atman. Dharma is vijnanamaya kosha. If Dharma isn't guiding

the

> mind, then mind cannot reign in the senses and that will result in

> passionate actions. If one of the vargas is showing vijnana maya kosha

and

> another the manomaya kosha, their interaction will show whether or not

the

> native will follow Dharma while pursuing Artha and Kama. Is it not?

>

> Now, why are we making such an assumption? Is it a new theory?

> Jyotish as a shastra is subservient to Vedas. If Vedas have given the

> panchkoshas, there has to be its relevance in the charts. You also

agree to

> the same and only object to seeing the koshas separately (which is

akin to

> seeing the divisional charts separately).

>

> The underlying discussion should be held:

> Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the

resultant

> Jiva? I would love to hear your views. It could be both and each would

raise

> a volley of questions. If it is the resultant jiva, then, why study

the

> divisional chart at all. Why, even, go to the Navamsha? If it is the

Sthoola

> Sarira, then, why use it too much as most can be gathered through the

> divisional chart?

>

> Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta and

> Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing our

> indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act with

> guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to the

> manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is Budhi

> Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition from

> Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions from

> Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever we are

> analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to study

> based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas process

> these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through

> indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is Jnana

> Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or

> withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such a

> thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can be

handy,

> as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through

> practise,obeying to budhi.

>

> This is huge and I am already getting fatiqued. I wish you were here

with me

> discussing this, atleast I wouldn't have to type all. Nonetheless, let

me

> get started again:

>

> Budhi: discriminating, reasoning, judging faculty. Budhi judges based

on its

> understanding. The principles of Dharma should guide Buddhi. To

discriminate

> and follow, it needs the light of Truth or the reasoning why to follow

> Dharma. The light is provided by Sun, that is why Mercury "tries" to

be

> close to Sun. This is the BudhaAditya Yoga. Jupiter is the store house

of

> intelligence and provides deep thinking on each stimuli. It,

therefore,

> represents Dharma.

>

> The Manas may or may not refer a matter to Budhi (most reactive stance

are

> manas acting alone). Budhi comes into play only if Manas lets it. Only

if

> Budhi is referred too, Dharma can come into play. Under Gajakesari

Yoga, the

> instincts of Dharma become strong and therefore, without referring to

Budhi,

> a person is able to do Dharmic actions. As Jupiter signifies Dharma,

and

> Dharma is the true way to lasting sukha, therefore it is the Sukha

Karaka.

>

> To explain the above, we do not need the houses. The houses will

provide the

> sthoola Sarira the Kshetra of expression. Karma has to come from the

graha.

> By not providing the adequate Kshetra, the graha is unfilled or

> disappointed. This is what happens if you see Jupiter is Kshetra of

learning

> and intelligence - it is brilliant. In Kshetra of war and Adharma,

it's

> expression is unfulfilled.

>

> Now the question comes - What do the signs and houses of Vargas

provide -

> Internal Kshetram? Subtle Kshetram? Is there no possibility of the

same?

> Now, if you understand that Prana and Manas is prevading beyond the

boundary

> of the sthoola sarira, this could mean a lot. Frankly, I have no clue

now on

> what the results would be. I require help over here and we need to

research

> (that is why I was certain of research). Another thing, re-search

means

> searching for something that already is, and, not for something

altogether

> new.

>

> The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may not be

> easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have

> mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are

> Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are

> navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i am not

> sure,i am refraining from making comments.

> I may be wrong. I agree and only need support that we all research

together

> instead of totally dismissing the idea.

>

> I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive at

> conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are

> certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together can

result

> in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are infleuncing

a

> bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same.

> You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with classics or

> logic.

> Till I discover BrahmaVidya, I will be wrong. My certainity lies in

that the

> vargas can be used separately. How to use them, I am uncertain. My

logic and

> reasoning points to their usage. Furthermore, how the vargas are being

> analyzed in many books, I am uncertain if they are true too.

>

> I thank you for this free exchange and hope I do not get tired easily.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

> On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar

> >

> > Thanks for the detailed explanations and Koshas.

> > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones too

are

> > part of sookshma shareera.Dhananjaya is excepeted for the reason

> > mentioned in the previous mail,and hence the other nine are related

to

> > navamshas.

> > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous entities,for

eg

> > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas and

> > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone

cannot

> > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The

order or

> > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins Manas,Manas

to

> > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation ''subjects''),then

> > vishaya sukha etc.

> >

> > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him.Manas directs indriyas

and

> > indriyas associates with various vishayas and pleasures.

> > Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta and

> > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing our

> > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act with

> > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to the

> > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is

Budhi

> > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition

from

> > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions

from

> > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever we

are

> > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to

study

> > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas process

> > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through

> > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is Jnana

> > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or

> > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such a

> > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can be

handy,

> > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through

> > practise,obeying to budhi.

> >

> > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may not

be

> > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have

> > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are

> > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are

> > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i am

not

> > sure,i am refraining from making comments.

> >

> > But if you can close your eyes and think for few seconds,you can

> > perceive what a Bhava is(Also think of Bhava in Nritta and Sangeetha

-

> > The art forms are expressions arising out of internal and external

> > harmony.When one forgets about mind,True Bhava manifests with Laya

or

> > flow).It is the simultaneous functioniong of numerous entities.Think

of

> > the functioning of human system.A body(sthoola) simultaneously

working

> > with prana,indriya,manas,budhi,ahamkara etc can only have a

Bhava.Prana

> > alone does not have any bhava - so is manas - it has to get

impressions

> > from indriyas or past ones from chitta.How we are able to derive

each

> > and every amsha from individual rashis, holds the conclusion.A rashi

is

> > a sumtotal of all these.Planets are giving life,which they in turn

have

> > gained from Soorya.Purusha manifests as Prana.

> >

> > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive at

> > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are

> > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together can

result

> > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are

infleuncing a

> > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same.

> > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with classics

or

> > logic.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

> > hinduastrology@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep

> > >

> > > It is no use giving simple explanations on the forum.

> > >

> > > Taittirya Upanishad Chapter XIII: Than that, verily -than this one

> > formed of

> > > Prana -there is another self within formed of Manas. By Him this

one

> > is

> > > filled.

> > >

> > > When we talk of Jnana indriyas, we talk of two things- organs of

> > perception

> > > and their stimuli being registered in the mind. As the indriyas by

> > itself

> > > cannot bring Jnana or cognition, it is the Manomaya Kosha or the

Mind

> > that

> > > brings it. The word Jnana indriyas therefore refers to perception.

To

> > say

> > > perception rests with the Mind is okay to say that senses rest

with

> > the

> > > mind, will be incorrect. So Jnana indriyas is another function of

the

> > mind

> > > and a different one from its other functions. It should not be

taken

> > as a

> > > separate organ or a place or else.

> > >

> > > The mano maya kosha is the first kosha in the order from gross to

> > subtle to

> > > be show cognition as it has more of Sattva Guna as compared to

> > Pranamaya

> > > kosha which is mostly Rajas and Anamayakosha that is mostly Tamas.

So

> > here

> > > in lies the instrument of karana sakti, and the bhoga sakti. As of

> > product

> > > of Jnana sakti, it has various vrittis.

> > >

> > > "Desire, representation, doubt, faith, want of faith, want of

> > firmness,

> > > shame, reflection, fear - all in mind" - Brihadaryanka Upanishad

1-5-3

> > >

> > > So among many functions Jnana Indriyas is the cognition of

perception.

> > But

> > > senses shall remain in the sthoola sarira. Pranas that prevades

the

> > anamaya

> > > kosha or the sthoola sarira, shall be the sthana of Karma

Indriyas,

> > meaning

> > > the enabling the function of action. It is the carrier of Manomaya

> > kosha's

> > > directives to the limbs and organs of actions of the body. Again

it is

> > one

> > > of the functions and not a separate place, or identity.

> > >

> > > As Mano-maya kosha prevades the pranamaya kosha, the function of

> > perception

> > > shall prevade the pranamaya kosha but the senses itself shall not

> > prevade

> > > the pranamaya kosha. As Pranamaya does not have distinct parts,

just

> > as in

> > > manomaya kosha, it is a unity present in every part of the body

> > performing

> > > its functions.

> > >

> > > Now, I see you mention 10 pranas. It is correct, though generally

5

> > > prominent ones are used and in the Upanishad these five are

mentioned.

> > > (Maitreya Up. 2-6)

> > >

> > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not have any

> > > ownership here.When we think it is clear.

> > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions from

the

> > > external and hence the cause for evils.

> > >

> > > If we see the same, then, what I had suggested to you and the

forum,

> > earlier

> > > could be true. D1-D12 - Anamaya kosha D13-D24 Pranamaya Kosha,

D25-D36

> > > (where in D30 lies) Manomaya Kosha. (This was followed by chat

with

> > Sri Hari

> > > and Sri Parthasarathy too)

> > >

> > > Could then, divisional charts (D25-D36) relate to the different

> > functions of

> > > the mind? I am certain of two things:

> > > 1. They can be used separately in view of the above- how we need

to

> > find

> > > out. Possible clues could be checking the cognition of different

> > stimuli,

> > > what desires move about, in what the person's faith lies, etc.

After

> > all,

> > > the causes of bodily actions lie in these charts, there is much

more

> > to

> > > them.

> > >

> > > 2. More research is needed.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 2/19/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Anilkumar ji,Arjun ji ,Bharatji Namaskaar

> > > >

> > > > EkaVimshopi(21) constituents of Sookshma shareera are composed

of

> > > > dwadasha(12) Budhindriyaadis and navapranas.

> > > > Here 12,Budhi-indriyaadis are Budhi,Manas and 10 Indriyas.

> > > >

> > > > Arjun ji as you may be aware,Organs are different from indriyas.

> > > > 1)Jnanendriyas -smell,taste,see,touch,hear.

> > > > 2)Karmendriyas -excrete,reproduce,move,grasp,speak.

> > > > Thus nose,ear,legs etc are the organs corresponding to the above

10

> > > > indriyas.

> > > > Nava Pranas are -

> > > > Pranan,Apanan,Samanan,Vyanan,Udanan,Nagam,Koormam,Krikalam &

> > > > Devadattam.Tenth Prana Dhananjaya,is for dead bodies.

> > > >

> > > > Rashi is sthoola shareera ,comprising of Organs.But organs are

just

> > > > structures if there is no life.Thus Purusha manifests as Prana.

> > > >

> > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not have

any

> > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear.

> > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions from

the

> > > > external and hence the cause for evils.

> > > >

> > > > Can indriyas alone be considered as a Bhava?No.Bhava is the

> > confluence

> > > > of many.We should think how it is possible to study all aspects

> > > > pertaining to a jataka from ''Rashi Chakra''.

> > > > This is possible as, one rashi becomes a bhava,when it has a

lord

> > w.r

> > > > to lagna.For properly understanding the functioning of each

Bhava,we

> > > > have to see the subtle infleunces on bhava nathas.Each subtle

> > > > infleunce will have a role,for eg,navamsha infleunce is

> > corresponding

> > > > to kalathra,bhagya etc.

> > > > Thus sookshma shareera acts in sync with corresponding sthoola

> > > > shareera organs.Trying to study them in isolation or considering

> > Bhava

> > > > there is beyond my understanding.Others who have understood may

> > > > explain for better comprehension.We should think why we do not

have

> > > > shlokas to support bhavas in vargamsha groupings.Why is

Vargottama

> > > > important?Any planet is a Bhavanatha or karaka.When he is having

> > > > similar subtle and gross infleuences,shubha results.

> > > >

> > > > When time permits ,i can share some more from the works of

> > > > Mahamunis,if it is helpful for you.Mind - and its

> > > > constituents,improtance of chitta(past impressions and),Budhi,

> > > > Ahamkara etc.Chitta is also 5th house and PoorvaPunya.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004"

> > > > panditarjun2004@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > namaste bharat ji

> > > > >

> > > > > i am looking at how to read from the signs, houses or planets

on

> > all

> > > > > kinds of indriyas (not body organs). we all learnt how bodily

> > parts

> > > > > are read from various houses starting from head from langa to

feet

> > > > > in the 12th. please share on reading of these indriyas

(sensory

> > and

> > > > > non-sensory) from a sign/house/planet.

> > > > >

> > > > > the two nadis ida and pingala are related to sun and moon.

> > > > > similarly please share how the five vayus are read in

astrology.

> > i

> > > > > understand that the seven chakras (mooladhara, svadhisthana,

> > > > > manipuraka, anahata, vishuddha, ajna and sahasrara) can also

be

> > read

> > > > > from a chart and have their correlation with signs, houses and

> > > > > planets. would be grateful if any member share information on

> > this.

> > > > >

> > > > > with best wishes and regards

> > > > > arjun

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu

Astrology"

> > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Jnanaindriyas are the five senses of perception. The

five

> > > > > karma indriyas

> > > > > > are organs of speech, hands, legs, organ of procreation, and

> > organ

> > > > > of

> > > > > > excretion. The pranamaya kosha (prana, apana, udana, vyana

and

> > > > > samana)

> > > > > > provide the forces that make the indriyas function.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 2/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > dear anil ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pradeep:Thus Rashis are 12 and they constitue 12 organs

as

> > > > > well as

> > > > > > > > 12 bhavas.Sookshma shareera consists of navapranas and

12

> > > > > indiryas.

> > > > > > > > Anil:There are 5 Jnyanendriyas and 5 Karmendriyas so 10

> > only.

> > > > > > > > Please give supporting verses. Organs and Indriyas are

> > > > > different.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > without knowing whether the indriyas are twelve or ten, i

> > would

> > > > > request

> > > > > > > you to give their correlation to signs or houses in

seriatim

> > for

> > > > > me to

> > > > > > > learn more.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > yes you are right in saying that organs are different from

> > > > > indriyas and

> > > > > > > it is organs which we consider for medical astrology. if

you

> > > > > share

> > > > > > > your knowledge on indriyas it would help me understand

better.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > with best wishes

> > > > > > > arjun

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?

> > > > >

> >

t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro

> > > > >

> >

logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB

> > > > > NeEg> Vedic

> > > > > > > astrology</gads?

> > > > >

> >

t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro

> > > > >

> >

logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI

> > > > > dnHA> Astrology

> > > > > > > horoscope</gads?

> > > > >

> >

t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A

> > > > >

strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-

> > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology

> > > > > > > software</gads?

> > > > >

> >

t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As

> > > > >

> >

trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt

> > > > > 6iLuaCw>

> > > > > > > ------------------------------

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> > > >

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> >

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>

February 21, 2006

Namaskaar Sri Pradeep

Om Astoma Sad Gamaya.

Tamasoma Jyothir Gamaya.

Mrityorma Amritam Gamaya.

Om Shantih! Shantih! Shantih!

Here I go again:

regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our doubts.Think

of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the

chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna had

taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false

identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations of

the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run

wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an initial

operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial

instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through

manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on

senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if it

is weak as per jataka. Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot has no

life or movement if it is devoid of the above said entities -collectively

called as Sookshma

shareera.

This is a well known analogy and till now I agree. I believe you are taking

the lagna chart as the sthoola Sarira (in your comments below)

Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us-

''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue atma

joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think of

the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot which

is according to the direction from manas on to the horses(indriyas)).

Now you have extended the example. This is a common mistake for those

studying Vedanta. The analogy of the chariot = Sharira, Arjuna being the

Jivatma and Krishna meaning identification with the Real self is okay. It is

only to explain the individual and show how the senses can destroy a person

by misleading him. It also shows with the knowledge of the Self, the

indriyas function but in their maryada.

Do not go to the level of mind taking Atma for a ride. This will overturn

almost all of the Upanishadic statments. As Atma is omnipresent, there is

nowhere where it is not. Therefore, wherever the mind goes, it there

already. It may seem to the mind that Atma is travelling with it, but then,

that is the Maya!

A musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas

dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun gives

Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of one

entity will result in the strength of the other.

Sun gives atma bala not Atma. How is the bala different? The light of

consciousness when referred to in an individual is called conditioned

consciousness. It enlivens the ego thought and the mind. This is the Atma

bala and not the bala of Atman that we are referring to above. The Atman has

nothing to take from manobala. It is free already and it is omnipotent.

Therefore, the Atma bala can only refer to the light or brilliance of the

consciousness shining through Sun in our charts that enlivens the

individual. As Sun is a graha, it binds through conditioning and feeling

that this consciousness is individual! This is the binding nature of the

Sun.

Manas never dissolves into the Atman. Manas is never there for the Atman,

therefore there is no dissolving back. This the limitation of any language

and therefore, such words are used. The thoughts are born out of a want for

fulfillment of the self, as one cannot accept limitation (this is due to the

fact that one's nature is Satyam Jnanam Anantam). This desire moves to

fulfill itself and be complete. When such a notion is finished and Brahma

Vidya dawns, there is no more running. Only residual prarabdha functions.

When a musician sings, he dissociates his ego and finds love and devotion.

This is possible not only for a musician but for almost everyone on this

forum.

I am sorry I have to discuss the above words over the internet. Upanishads

should be studied with reverence and not like this.

There are no multiple charts.As the

brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12

Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma sambandha)

as a seperate entity(chart).

Sthoola Sookshma Sambanda I understand very well and agree. Now when we say

Sookshma, what do we mean? Sookshma is the one that is free from the

sthoola. So pranamaya kosha is independent and free of sthoolamaya kosha. If

your heart is beating it is because pranas are functioning on their own. No

sambandha is required. If in the prana chart (suppose we can recognize which

one it is), if we see problems and malefics, we can find out the root of

heart problem. No need for the D1 chart! (You'd probably call me mad now,

but I am just showing you that the possibility exist)

Rasi is the Sthoola Sarira and as "Yat Pinde Tat Brahmande" principle

applies so Rasi is also the external to Sthoola Sarira.

Rashi the structure(chariot) is Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same as one

bhava, though with a small conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got

through planets,which in turn is from soorya) and other sookshama shareera

entities for functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with

Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas.

I agree that Rashi and Bhava are same. The 2nd statement is a huge

assumption. The Sthoola Sarira needs Prana true but can the Sthoola Sarira

show the functioning of the Prana? The Prana are independent of the Sthoola

Sarira so Sthoola Sarira shall show the result and Prana is the cause.

Rashi can only show the result of the Prana on Sthoola Sarira and not the

cause. It will not show which Prana isn't functioning and why. And what

about the interrelationships between the Mind and the Pranas. The Sthoola

Sarira shall show nothing of it.

Another exercise here:

If we have Sun as the conditioned consciousness (not the Atman), Moon as the

mind, Jupiter as the values and memory, Mercury as the Buddhi, can you

divide the other planets into their functions of Pranas?