Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Dear Souvikji, Something is certainly wrong. None of my messages for the last few days have been *posted*. My problem is confined to this list alone. I have been able to post in others. Regards Nalini vedic astrology, "Souvik Dutta" <explore_vulcan wrote: > > Namaste Devikaji, > > You have no idea how much encouragement your words have given to me. > > However, I am far from a genius, a mere student in the world of > learned. > > Thank you, > > Souvik > > vedic astrology, Devika Dhillon > <devikadhillon@> wrote: > > > > Namaste Sri Souvik, > > You wrote: "If "speaking" the mantras were so important then > why did Maharshis keep mauna vrata?" > > You are a genius, I enjoy your emails. Keep on writing. > > > > Devika. > > > > > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan@> wrote: > > Dear Pooja ji, > > > > Your question is on the path of gyana. > > > > In that respect, Guruver Dakshinamurthy has already answered your > > query. > > > > Bhakti bhava cannot be brought, according to me. It has to be > there > > always. > > > > Yes, chapters 1 and 8 of Valmiki Ramayana are later additions. > Yes, > > other portions have also gone thru amendments. > > > > I will give you an example of bhakti. > > > > Thakur (Ramakrishna Paramshana) once shouted to his disciples- > "Aure > > Krishna je Kalio shey" meaning "Krishna and Kali is same and one". > > > > Bhakti is something like you shout "Jai Shree Krishna" after > > listening to the complete Valmiki Ramyana. For you Krishna and > Rama > > is the same. > > > > Bhakti is headless, non-judegemental and in wordly terms very very > > stupid. > > > > Have you seen lovers today? Do they have any logic in what they do- > > write on walls, on railway platforms and even cut their hands. > That > > too is an expression of prem and bhakti, but directed to a person > of > > flesh and blood. When that very headlessness is directed to the > > Supreme, one finds himself in Him. > > > > Did you know a perefect male like Sri Chaitaniya Mahaprabhu cried > in > > bhakti saying "I am Radha". What will you say this in the eyes of > > gyana? Is their any logic in this behaviour? That is bhakti. > > > > The path of gyana is of bhrahmanas, the path of vairagya is of > > rishis and the path of bhakti is of bhakts? Devarshi Narad is > > Devarshi because of his bhakti. > > > > I have drifted a lot from the topic but would like to end with one > > question. > > > > If "speaking" the mantras were so important then why did Maharshis > > keep mauna vrata? > > > > Regards, > > > > Souvik > > > > > > vedic astrology, POOJA RAJDEV > > <its_me_pooja@> wrote: > > > > > > Souvik, > > > > > > Can I conclude that since "Bhakti" is the ingredient which > drove > > valmikiji and tulsidasji to write different versions of Ramayana > > both have same remedial effects if recited with bhakti bhav by the > > native. > > > Secondly, if vibrations of ramayana written by valmikiji has > > different aspect than it shud be only applicable to original > version > > and not the once published later. > > > > > > Correct me if I am wrong. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > dakshinastrologer <dakshinastrologer@> wrote: > > > Dear Student Souvik: > > > > > > A wonderful and inspirational selection of parable to bring home > a > > > very important truth. YOu know when to be sarcastic, when to be > > > empathetic, and when to drive home important truths as if in a > > casual > > > conversation! With warriors like you who know which weapon to > use > > > based on the circumstances espousing the cause of bhakti and > > dharma, > > > there is no doubt that the expected "birth of the new world in > > 2011/ > > > 2012" is going to bring about a new dawn in spirituality. > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > > > > Pandit. R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI. > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Souvik Dutta" > > > <explore_vulcan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kishoreji, > > > > > > > > A small story: > > > > Source: > > > > http://www.pushtikul.com/article_read.asp?id=145 > > > > > > > > > > > > "Now I shall narrate the episode about Bhakti (Devotion) which > I > > > > have heard from Sri Sukadev himself. It so happened that the > > Sanaka > > > > Kumars arrived at the Badrika ashram for Satsang and finding > > > > Devrishi Narad in a despondent mood, asked him the reason for > > this > > > > sad state. Narad replied : "During one of my sojourns to the > > earth, > > > > I visited many holy places- Puskara, Prayaga, Kasi, Haridwar, > > > > Kurukshetra, Srirangapatnam, Nasik etc. and found that the > > condition > > > > of people had become extremely decadent. Brahmins were selling > > the > > > > Vedas, women their bodies; the morals of mortals had touched > the > > > > lowermost levels and the thought of God had nearly left the > > hearts > > > > of people. I reached the banks of Yamuna , where I saw a young > > woman > > > > wailing in a distressed condition while two old men lay > > unconscious > > > > by her side. Several women were fanning her and consoling her. > I > > > > went near her and asked her identity. She informed me that she > > was > > > > Bhakti and the two old men were her sons, Gyan (Spiritual > > > > enlightenment) and Vairagya (Dispassion or renouncement). She > > > > continued her story thus ` oh Muniraja, I was born in Dravida > > desh > > > > and attained maturity in Karnataka. Though I was respected in > > some > > > > regions of Maharashtra, I reached a ripe age in Gujrat. Due to > > the > > > > advent of Kaliyuga, my two sons and I became weak and > sluggish. > > I > > > > travelled a lot and on reaching Brindaban, I have regained my > > > > youthfulness but my sons have remained old and are in deep > agony > > due > > > > to exhaustion.' I comforted her and made several efforts to > > revive > > > > her two sons but to no avail. With the recitation of the > Gayatri > > > > Mantra, the Gita and other Holy Scriptures, though a slight > > revival > > > > was attained, it was for a few moments only. After assuring > her > > of > > > > finding some way out, I continued on my travails and on > arrival > > at > > > > Badrika ashram prayed at the Lotus feet of Sri Krsna. I was > > > > contemplating about the solution to the problem of Bhakti." On > > > > hearing this, the Sanaka Kumars assured Narad that the > > exposition of > > > > Shrimad Bhagwat would definitely revive Gyan and Vairagya and > > > > requested him to make arrangements for the same at Haridwar. > > This > > > > led to the Gyan yagna at Haridwar on the banks of Ganges, > where > > > > several sages congregated. Bhrgu, Vasista, Cyavana, Gautam, > > > > Markandeya, Viswamitra, Parasara were some of the large > numbers > > of > > > > eminent sages who came here. Those who were hesitant, were > > herded > > > > and persuaded by the sage Bhrgu, to participate in this > mammoth > > > > Sutra." > > > > > > > > In Kali Yuga, there can be many occasions where gyana and > > vairagya > > > > may fail. If one has bhakti he/she may fight against all odds > to > > > > reach the abode of the Ultimate, whoever it may be. > > > > > > > > It is gyan that gives us knowledge of mantra shastra and > > vibrations > > > > etc. It is gyan that differentiates between versions of > Ramyana. > > > > > > > > However, to bhakti, even the name "Rama" is > enough...why "Rama"? > > > > even the name "Mara" is enough if done with bhakti..it was > > bhakti > > > > that made Valmiki made Ramaya, it was bhakti that made > Tulsidas > > > > write his own version, it was bhakti that made Krittiwas wirte > > his > > > > own..the underlying conceot is always the same, it always was! > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > > > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > DEar sri dakshina moorthyji, > > > > > > > > > > What you say certainly holds water and understood by some of > > us. > > > > > HOwever, it is very difficult for a common man to understand > > the > > > > > subtle difference between rama charita manas and the valmiki > > > > > ramayan. > > > > > > > > > > I have seen many asking me why is that the regional versions > > > > > (especially in case of Bhagavad gita which I advocate for > > > > recitation) > > > > > should not be used for parayan and only original version > > should be > > > > > done. > > > > > > > > > > The original version will be having the vibrational value of > > the > > > > > mantras which are not existing in the regional versions. For > > eg., > > > > > Valmiki ramayan is based on Gayatri mantra and hence, many > > mantrik > > > > > values associated with it, which I dont think will be > present > > in > > > > the > > > > > regional versions. > > > > > > > > > > No doubt,Parayan of Ram charita manas has its own spiritual > > > > values > > > > > attached to it, only because of it is a shuddha kavya > written > > by a > > > > > pious and sincere devotee of the Lord. In telugu, we have > the > > > > > Sundara Kanda by late MS Rama rao(written during the '70s > > or '80s) > > > > > which has great vibrational value due to the music > associated > > with > > > > > it. It became very famous during those days. It is said > > Hanuman > > > > > himself has composed the lyrics and relieved the physical > > author > > > > > from a strange disease he was suffering from. Yet, the > > remedies > > > > > associated with this song are somewhat different from those > > > > offered > > > > > by valmiki ramayan, though this version also caters to > freeing > > of > > > > > one from debts, disease and materialistic problems. > > > > > > > > > > Every remedy has its own results. We \should not mix up > these > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic- astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > > > > <dakshinastrologer@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Poojaji: > > > > > > > > > > > > You definitely do not sound like a fool! Why do you say > > > > so?!!!! > > > > > No > > > > > > devotee of the Lord is a fool.....You have asked a genuine > > > > doubt, > > > > > > though the clarification of this doubt is already in my > > earlier > > > > > post. > > > > > > I have not denied the efficacy of Raama Charita Maanasaa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have I ever denied the efficacy of Raama Charita Maanasa > in > > my > > > > > posts? > > > > > > .....Kindly read through my post again....I have > explicitly > > said > > > > > that > > > > > > reading the manasa is also efficacious......But, then the > > > > results > > > > > I > > > > > > have been writing for chanting of Sundara Kaandam > definitely > > do > > > > > not > > > > > > pertain to the chanting of the chapter of Raama Charita > > Maanasa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vaalmiiki Raamaayana was written by Sage Vaalmiiki > > immediately > > > > > after > > > > > > completing a tapasya and on the initiation of Deva Rishi > > > > Naarada. > > > > > It > > > > > > has the essence of the vedas in it. Naturally, as it was > > > > written > > > > > > under such Divine promptings, and by a Sage who had > > completed a > > > > > severe > > > > > > Penance, it has mantrik vibrations in it which are in > > addition > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > philosophical content/ bhakti content in the work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raamacharita Maanasa- in contrast- is a Bhakthi > literature. > > You > > > > > will > > > > > > find that Raamacharita Maanasaa differs from the original > > > > version > > > > > of > > > > > > Sage Vaalmiki regarding certain events to suit the > regional > > > > > culture > > > > > > and the culture of the times in which the work was > > > > composed....... > > > > > > Hence it does not qualify as an Ithihaas ( Ithihaas > > literally > > > > > means > > > > > > "It happened like that"; Vaalmiiki Raamaayana has the > > > > distinction > > > > > of > > > > > > being recited before the August presence of Shri Raama > > himself > > > > > during > > > > > > the course of the grand Yagna He conducted, by His own > > Sons. It > > > > > is a > > > > > > faithful rendering of the ORIGINAL story of Shri Raama AS > IT > > > > > HAPPENED; > > > > > > This is what makes the original work in Sanskrit special). > > > > > > There is no doubt that this singular work - The Raama > > Charita > > > > > Maanasa- > > > > > > spurned the Bhakti movement in whole of Hindi belt for > many > > > > > centuries; > > > > > > it brought the Lord's story to the doorstep of the common > > man > > > > > making > > > > > > him free to indulge in the pleasure of reciting the story > of > > > > > Lord's > > > > > > Life in his own tongue without needing to depend on greedy > > > > pandits > > > > > and > > > > > > many people have benefited by its recital. But, when I say > > > > recital > > > > > of > > > > > > particular chapter of Sundara Kaandam gives such and such > > > > results > > > > > > based on references from Vaayu Puraanaa (incidentally, > this > > was > > > > > > compiled by Sage Veda Vyaasa - the composer of the other > > epic - > > > > > > Mahaabharatam), I have always meant the original Sanskrit > > > > version > > > > > > written by Vaalmiiki Rishi. You may build a thousand > > replicas > > > > of > > > > > > ancient monuments, but still the grandeur and sentiment > > > > associated > > > > > > with the original can never ever be replicated. Same is > the > > > > case > > > > > with > > > > > > inspired regional writings.....They gain their prominence > > due to > > > > > the > > > > > > bhakti bhava of the composers.....but, they cannot equal > the > > > > > original > > > > > > in terms of mantrik content. Of course, as I have said > time > > and > > > > > > again, in terms of adding to your spiritual fervour, these > > two > > > > > works > > > > > > are equal and none is inferior to the other. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti literature is different from mantrik works in > that, > > > > > chanting > > > > > > of bhakti literature gives results ONLY if your attitude > is > > > > highly > > > > > > devotional and you are able to plunge yourself in an > > attitude of > > > > > > bhakti and total surrender. Mantrik literature relies > > mainly on > > > > > the > > > > > > vibration of the sounds. That is why vedas and other > > puranic > > > > > mantras > > > > > > have to be chanted with the right intonation to get the > > expected > > > > > > results. Of course, chanting the Raama charita Maanasa in > > full > > > > > > definitely has spiritual significance....but, Uma Samhita > of > > > > Vaayu > > > > > > Purana definitely has not meant "Raama Charita Maanasa" > when > > > > > giving > > > > > > the effects of Raamaayana Sarga Paaraayanams. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope I have made my stand clear regarding this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pandit. R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI. > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, POOJA RAJDEV > > > > <its_me_pooja@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Moortiji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgive me if I may sound like a fool. > > > > > > > But I fail to understand one thing > > > > > > > Shrimad Vaalmiiki Raamaayanam and Ramcharitra manas both > > > > should > > > > > be > > > > > > equally efficatious irrespective of the fact who has > written > > the > > > > > book. > > > > > > Context of the book and intentions of the writer is same. > > > > > > > Dont you agree with this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dakshinamoorthi r <dakshinastrologer@> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Shri. Vijay Kumar: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was referring to the Sundara Kaandam of Shrimad > > > > > > > Vaalmiiki Raamaayanam ( the original Sanskrit > > > > > > > composition). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Raam charita Maanasa version is also efficacious, > > > > > > > but the procedures and the effects that I have > > > > > > > referred to in my posts pertain to the original > > > > > > > Sanskrit composition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall send a copy of this post to the forum also as > > > > > > > per your request. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Vijay Kumar <vk_51@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Resp. Shri Dakshinamoorthi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While replying, kindly post it on the group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your posts on the list are very educative and have > > > > > > > > a lot of contents. I forward my sincere > > > > > > > > appreciations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding Sundar Kand recitation : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Ram Charit Manas (Hindi), there is a Sundar > > > > > > > > Kanda depicting Sri Hanumanji's flight to Lanka and > > > > > > > > back after victory. I hope, the same is in > > > > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Sundar Kanda is not very big and its > > > > > > > > recitation is covered in 1/2 to 1 hour depending on > > > > > > > > the speed of the recitation. Since, you said it to > > > > > > > > take 8 hrs, hence the doubt arose whether you are > > > > > > > > referring the same or something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly clarify. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vijay Kumar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail > > > > > > > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying > > > > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pandit. R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to > > > > > http://. > > > > > > shaadi.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > (AT) (DOT) > > > > > > com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... 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