Guest guest Posted January 1, 2000 Report Share Posted January 1, 2000 karAravindena padAravindaM mukhAravinde vinivezayantam | vaTasya patrasya puTe zayAnaM bAlaM mukundaM manasA smarAmi || "I recall within my mind Lord Bala Mukunda, lying within the leaf of a Banyan tree; with His lotus hand, He puts His lotus foot into His lotus mouth." MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2000 Report Share Posted January 8, 2000 Pranams. Jaya Prabhupada! On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, COM: Tadiya-seva (das) BVTS (Copenhagen - DK) wrote: > > karAravindena padAravindaM > > mukhAravinde vinivezayantam | > > vaTasya patrasya puTe zayAnaM > > bAlaM mukundaM manasA smarAmi || > > > > "I recall within my mind Lord Bala Mukunda, lying within the leaf of a > > Banyan tree; with His lotus hand, He puts His lotus foot into His lotus > > mouth." > > Dear Mukunda Datta Prabhu, > PAMHO. AGTSP. > Could you tell me where this verse is from? It is very beautiful. > Beautiful it is. This well-known (and oft-quoted verse) is from Krishna-karnamritam, 2.58. Although the "Southern" versions of this book (with 3 sections) are also attributed to Bilvamangala Thakura, I can't verify who the author of the last two parts really is. Of course, Shri Caitanya Mahaprabhu brought the Karnamritam back from His South Indian tour, and Bilvamangala is definitely it's author, but what isn't clear is whether the one (i.e., first) section He brought back (viz., the "Bengali" version) was then the complete Karnamrita or not. And my experience with Bilvamangala's writings is that they seem rather messy, textually (ie., interpolated, full of material also included in other authors' works, etc.). So I'm a little doubtful. But if it's any consolation, many of the KK verses from sections 2 and 3 of this southern version are quoted by Shrila Rupa Gosvami in his anthology Padyavali--though he attributes some of these verses to other authors. For more background information, see one critical KK translation, _The Love of Krishna_, edited by Frances Wilson (Philadelphia: Univ. of Pennsylvania Press, 1975). I hope this helps. Hare Krishna! Your humble servant, MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2000 Report Share Posted January 8, 2000 Dear Mukunda Datta Prabhu, Dandavat pranams. Thank you very much for your reply regarding the 'The Lord sucks His toes' verse. I just wanted to add one thing. In the Gaudiya Matha edition of the Sri Krsna-karnamrtam which I have (first section only), which contains the Sanskrit text and an English translation by H.H. Bhakti Sadhaka Niskincana Maharaja, the followin concluding remark is made: "The text as transliterated above was got copied and brought to Puri by His Lordship Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu from a place on the bank of the river Krishnavena near Pandarpur (in the Maharashtra Pradesh), presumably in the neighbourhood of the birth place of Sri Bilvamangala Thakur which is traditionally known to have been on the same river (Vide Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita, the most important biography of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu II.9). There are two more parts, the above text being regarded as the first one, which are prevalent in South India. But the scholars of the Sri Chaitanya School do not recognise them. They may be the results of the successful attempts of some good scholar or scholars to imitate the style of thought and poetic diction of Thakur Bilvamangala." In any case, the verse is beautiful. Your servant, Tadiya-seva dasa > Pranams. Jaya Prabhupada! > > On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, COM: Tadiya-seva (das) BVTS (Copenhagen - DK) wrote: > > > karAravindena padAravindaM mukhAravinde vinivezayantam | > > > vaTasya patrasya puTe zayAnaM > > > bAlaM mukundaM manasA smarAmi || > > > > > > "I recall within my mind Lord Bala Mukunda, lying within the leaf of a > > > Banyan tree; with His lotus hand, He puts His lotus foot into His > > > lotus mouth." > > > > Dear Mukunda Datta Prabhu, > > PAMHO. AGTSP. > > Could you tell me where this verse is from? It is very beautiful. > > > Beautiful it is. This well-known (and oft-quoted verse) is from > Krishna-karnamritam, 2.58. Although the "Southern" versions of this book > (with 3 sections) are also attributed to Bilvamangala Thakura, I can't > verify who the author of the last two parts really is. Of course, Shri > Caitanya Mahaprabhu brought the Karnamritam back from His South Indian > tour, and Bilvamangala is definitely it's author, but what isn't clear is > whether the one (i.e., first) section He brought back (viz., the "Bengali" > version) was then the complete Karnamrita or not. And my experience with > Bilvamangala's writings is that they seem rather messy, textually (ie., > interpolated, full of material also included in other authors' works, > etc.). So I'm a little doubtful. But if it's any consolation, many of > the KK verses from sections 2 and 3 of this southern version are quoted by > Shrila Rupa Gosvami in his anthology Padyavali--though he attributes some > of these verses to other authors. For more background information, see > one critical KK translation, _The Love of Krishna_, edited by Frances > Wilson (Philadelphia: Univ. of Pennsylvania Press, 1975). I hope this > helps. Hare Krishna! > > Your humble servant, > > MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2000 Report Share Posted January 8, 2000 On Sat, 8 Jan 2000, COM: Tadiya-seva (das) BVTS (Copenhagen - DK) wrote: > Dandavat pranams. Namaste. Jaya Prabhupada! Thanks for posting this excerpt. > In the Gaudiya Matha edition of the > Sri Krsna-karnamrtam which I have (first section only), which contains the > Sanskrit text and an English translation by H.H. Bhakti Sadhaka Niskincana > Maharaja, the following concluding remark is made: > "The text as transliterated above was got copied and brought to Puri by His > Lordship Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu from a place on the bank of the river > Krishnavena near Pandarpur (in the Maharashtra Pradesh), presumably in the > neighbourhood of the birth place of Sri Bilvamangala Thakur which is > traditionally known to have been on the same river (Vide Sri Chaitanya > Charitamrita, the most important biography of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu > II.9). The above assumption about Bilvamangala's residence actually isn't in the CC, though. In fact, as far as I can see, it's mentioned in the purport by Shrila Prabhupada, who doesn't make any claim that the notion is authoritative (Madhya, 9.304). But it is fairly reasonable, except that many other provinces in India also claim Bilvamangala as a native of their regions. > There are two more parts, the above text being regarded as the first > one, which are prevalent in South India. But the scholars of the Sri > Chaitanya School do not recognise them. Accha. I wonder what Gaudiya scholars he's talking about. As I mentioned, Rupa Gosvami definitely recognized some of them; it's just that they're not all attributed to Bilvamangala or to the KK. Bilvamangala is considered to have been an acharya of the Vishnusvami line by members of that tradition. BTW, there's another critical edition (S.K. De, Delhi: Navrang, 1990) which includes a few Gaudiya commentaries, all in Sanskrit. If I remember correctly, much of Bilvamangala's bio-data (which isn't by any means consistent) is therein regarded more or less as folktale by these Gaudiya acharyas as well. > They may be the results of the > successful attempts of some good scholar or scholars to imitate the style of > thought and poetic diction of Thakur Bilvamangala." Right, that isn't uncommon at all. In fact, because of several glaring similarities (in both literary content and personal bio-data) Bilvamangala Thakura is often popularly confused with the Braja-bhakha poet Surdas (Surdas is also claimed by the Vallabha tradition). But there are other such examples too, both in Sanskrit and the vernaculars. Here's one of them (Bilvamangala-stava, 2.88): yad deva-daitya-munibhir manasApy agamyaM yan neti neti ca vadan na hi veda vedaH As takra-vikraya-kRtAM sukRtAni kAni tad brahma bAlam iva ye paripAlayanti "He who is unapproachable even mentally by gods, demons, and sages, He whom even the Vedas, saying "neti, neti," cannot fully comprehend--that Supreme Absolute Brahman, as if a mere boy, is cared for by buttermilk vendors! What pious acts must they have done!" Compare the above verse to the following poem of the later Braj poet, Rasakhan (from his SujAn-rasakhAn): sesa ganesa dinesa mahesa suresahu jAhi nirantara gAvaiG / jAhi anAdi ananta akhaNDa acheda abheda subeda batAvaiG // nArada se suka byAsa rahaiG paci hAre tAu puni pAra na pAvai / tAhi ahIra kI chohariyA chachiyA bhari chAcha pai nAca nacAvaiG // "He whom Sesa, Ganesa, Surya, Siva, and even Indra constantly sing of, whom the Vedas describe as 'beginningless,' 'unlimited,' 'unbroken,' 'inpenetrable,' and 'nondual,' whom those such as Sukadeva, Vyasadeva, and Narada, repeatedly endeavoring, still cannot fathom--that very same one these daughters of cowherds have made to dance for a cupful of buttermilk!" But a lot of these themes are so generic as to make conclusive research into a given poet's life almost impossible. It's interesting nonetheless, I think. But of course, the main thing is to remember Krishna. Your humble servant, MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2000 Report Share Posted January 10, 2000 Dear Mukunda Datta Prabhu, Dandavat pranams. > > There are two more parts, the above text being regarded as the first > > one, which are prevalent in South India. But the scholars of the Sri > > Chaitanya School do not recognise them. > Accha. I wonder what Gaudiya scholars he's talking about. As I > mentioned, Rupa Gosvami definitely recognized some of them; it's just that > they're not all attributed to Bilvamangala or to the KK. Bilvamangala is > considered to have been an acharya of the Vishnusvami line by members of > that tradition. If they are not attributed to Bilvamangala Thakura or the Sri Krsna-karnamrtam by Sri Rupa Gosvami, would it not be possible that he obtained them elsewhere and not in the two sections of the Sri Krsna-karnamrtam from South India? If Sri Rupa Gosvami attribute the verses to other sources, this does not really say anything about whether or not he recognized the South Indian sections of the Krsna-karnamrtam. Regarding what Gaudiya scholars is meant, then I do not know. Perhaps Srila Sarasvati Thakura made some statements in this regard? > But a lot of these themes are so generic as to make conclusive research > into a given poet's life almost impossible. It's interesting nonetheless, > I think. But of course, the main thing is to remember Krishna. Time do have a tendency to obscure things, as illustrated by Sri Krsna in Bg. 4.2. I guess the main point is the content of the verse, and what impact it has on us. Your servant, Tadiya-seva dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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