Without surrender, initiation rituals are useless!

February 27, 2000

Dandavats. Jaya Prabhupada!

<<<Dinanukampana Prabhu wrote:

does that mean one has to become a brahmin if he wants to go back

to godhead?>>>

I should think so, if we define a brahmana as Prabhupada has--

as one who has realized spiritual existence (brahma jAnAtIti brAhmaNaH)

and the self as such (ahaM brahmAsmi). How can someone who hasn't

yet realized that s/he is not the material body or mind--or who hasn't

yet appreciated even the essential nature of spirit--truly appreciate the

Lord, or deal inoffensively with His associates and their transcendental

activities? Mature devotional service begins once one has realized

Brahman (Gita. 18.54).

On the other hand, if we define brahminical status as endowment

with the qualities mentioned in Gita, 18.42, etc., then a *pure* devotee

naturally possesses such godly qualities (5.18.12), and must have

already become such a brahmana previously (Bhagavatam, 3.33.7).

In either case, it seems valid to generalize that one must become

a brahmana before going back to Godhead.

<<<On 24 Feb 2000, Sridhari dd wrote:

Sadly there are many people that accept Harinam or even Brahminical

initiation, but they don't follow their vows. Why? who knows...>>>

Certainly Krishna knows. Here's one answer (Gita, 9.3):

azraddhadhANA puruSA

dharmasyAsya parantapa |

aprApya mAM nivartante

mRtyu-saMsAra-vartmani ||

"Those who are not faithful in this devotional service cannot

attain Me, O conqueror of enemies. Therefore they return to the path of

birth and death in this material world."

Or, as He also says in Bhagavad-gItA (7.28):

yeSAM tv anta-gataM pApaM

janAnAM puNya-karmaNAm |

te dvandva-moha-nirmuktA

bhajante mAM dRDha-vratAH ||

"After many, many births of executing pious activities, when

one is completely freed from all contaminations, and from all illusory

dualities, one becomes engaged in the transcendental loving service of the

Lord."

Most of us don't really have very much faith, so when we eventually

realize this, we give up trying. Faith is the basis of all advancements.

Faith can always be nourished by sat-sanga, like all other pious

perfections (Cc. Madhyalila, 22.54). Nowadays our society (if not our

basic humanity as well) is being torn apart because of the presence and

inauspicious actions of practically faithless people.

<<<Balarama.LOK (AT) bbt (DOT) se [balarama.LOK (AT) bbt (DOT) se] wrote:

I think I have a pretty good idea. The reason is that in ISKCON there is a

huge amount of pressure to become initiated. One is not accepted as a

sincere member of this society until he becomes intitiated. This is a

factor which is completely non-spiritual in nature. Prabhupada warned

against this, yet we persist in pressuring our new devotees to become

initiated even if they are not really qualified.>>>

Right. For some, it doesn't even seem to matter whether or not

the prospective gurus are themselves very qualified either. Prabhupada

himself refrained from taking initiation for over a decade, even though

he had full faith in his guru right from the beginning; if meant for

no other purpose, by this cautious example of Srila Prabhupada, he so

taught the rest of us. But fools rush in, at both ends of the

guru/shishya relationship. That's bad karma.

<<<We need to realize that

most people are not brahmins and will never be happy upholding a

brahminical lifestyle; we have to stop forcing them into positions which

they are ill-suited for.>>>

Very true.

Still, Prabhupada repeatedly stressed that ISKCON could fulfill

the urgent need for qualified brahmanas in modern society, since pure

devotees, by dint of being "gunatita" (above the influence of the three

material modes, cf. Gita, 14.26), can act effectively in this capacity (as

well as any other capacity). As the Lord is nirguna (unsullied by maya),

so are His pure devotees. But ISKCON has undoubtedly been established for

preaching work, and preaching is the quintessential brahminical activity.

Anyone in any condition or status of life can be elevated more and more,

simply by taking proper advantage of such good association (Bhagavatam,

2.4.18), in proportion only to their sincere thirst for such advancement

(Gita, 10.10). But such shuddha-sattvika or "vasudeva-sattva" devotees

are unfortunately (if unnecessarily) all too rare in this world (cf.

Bhagavatam, 6.14.5). Maybe that's the very point you're making.

To try to rubber-stamp ordinary people as brahmanas (or gurus) simply

compounds our misfortunes, and such an attempt is but a further symptom

of bad karma. We've all seen this, especially if the motivations behind

such artificial endeavors are as baldly materialistic as they often seem.

After all, it is one's "lakshana" (true and distinctive characteristic)

which demonstrates one's actual status (Bhagavatam, 7.11.35). This can

definitely change through what the Bhagavatam (2.3.10) calls "tivra-bhakti"

(sharp, intense devotion), but it usually takes more time and harder work

than mosst of us would be comfortable acknowledging. Such awareness is

what will best distinguish us from pseudo-Christians; in many cases we in

ISKCON of that ilk are now beginning to resemble them.

MDd

February 27, 2000

i think arjuna acted as a perfect kshatriya, but over and beyond that he

loved krishna, so he had all the transcendental qualities, but he did not

work as a brahmana, although he was more than a brahmana

in BG 18:46 Lord says anyone can become perfect remaining in his own work?

wd you care to comment

M. Tandy [mpt@u.washington.edu]

Sunday, February 27, 2000 1:15 PM

(Krsna) Katha

Re: Without surrender, initiation rituals are useless!