Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.41 Purport "In this verse the words saksad bhagavatoktena guruna harina are very significant. The Supreme Personality of Godhead speaks directly to the individual soul when the devotee has completely purified himself by rendering devotional service to the Lord. Lord Krsna confirms this also in Bhagavad Gita (10.10). "To those who are constantly devoted and worship me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to me." The Lord is the Supersoul situated in everyones heart, and he acts as caitya guru, the spiritual master within. However, he gives direct instructions only to the advanced, pure devotees. In the beginning, when a devotee is serious and sincere, the Lord gives him directions from within to approach a bonafide spiritual master. When one is trained by the spiritual master according to the regulative principles of devotional service and situated on the platform of spontaneous attachment for the Lord (raga-bhakti), the Lord also gives instructions from within.Tesam satata yuktanam bhajatam priti purvakam. This distinct advantage is obtained by a liberated soul. Having attained this stage, King Malayadvaja was directly in touch with the Supreme Lord and was receiving instructions from Him directly." NOD page 119 "Examples of spontaneous devotional service can be easily seen in Krsnas direct associates in Vrndavana. The spontaneous dealings of the residents of Vrindavana in relationship with Krsna are called raganuga. These beings don't have to learn anything about devotional service; they are already perfect in all regulative principles and have achieved the spontaneous loving service of the Supreme personality of Godhead. For example the cowherd boys who are playing with Krsna do not have to learn by austerities or penances or yogic practice how to play with Him. They have passed all tests of regulative principles in their previous lives, and as a result they are now elevated to the position of direct association with Krsna as His dear friends. Their spontaneous attitude is called raganuga bhakti. Rupa Goswami has defined raganuga bhakti as spontaneous attraction for something while completely absorbed in thoughts in it, with an intense desire of love. Devotional service executed with such feelings of spontaneous love is called raganuga bhakti." Your servant Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2000 Report Share Posted September 20, 2000 There is no difference between sadhana bhakti and raganuga bhakti. They are both same just like the two sides of a leaf. The top smooth surface of the leaf is raganuga and the bottom rough surface is Vaidhi. The only difference is in the sadhana bhakti one performs devotional activities by force of Guru,Sadhu, abnd Shastra. In raganuga stage they perform the same but spontaneously. A sadhana bhakta gets up for managalarati by hearing the ring of the bell of the spiritual master or by alarm clcok. In raganuga stage one gets up for mangalarati automatically, with out any force. In both cases one must rise for mangalarati. A sadhana bhakta may take a cold shower early morning feeling austerity. A raganuga bhakta takes cold shower feeling joyously. But pratah snana is a must for both sadhana bhakta and raganuga bhakta. Devotional principles are same for both sadhana bhakta and raganuga bhakta. The only difference is in the first case they are followed by force of Guru, Sadhu, and Shastra feeling austerity or tapasya, and in second case also according to Guru,Sadhu, and Shastra but voluntarily or spontaneously, with great pleasure. That is my understanding. Your humble servant, Bhadra Govinda Das. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2000 Report Share Posted September 25, 2000 but you, yourself, wrote here that there are differences and quite strikingly different. They are both Krsna concious but greatly different. "Bhadra Govinda (das) JPS (Singapore - SG)" wrote: > > There is no difference between sadhana bhakti and raganuga bhakti. They are > both same just like the two sides of a leaf. The top smooth surface of the > leaf is raganuga and the bottom rough surface is Vaidhi. The only difference > is in the sadhana bhakti one performs devotional activities by force of > Guru,Sadhu, abnd Shastra. In raganuga stage they perform the same but > spontaneously. > > A sadhana bhakta gets up for managalarati by hearing the ring of the bell of > the spiritual master or by alarm clcok. In raganuga stage one gets up for > mangalarati automatically, with out any force. In both cases one must rise > for mangalarati. > > A sadhana bhakta may take a cold shower early morning feeling austerity. A > raganuga bhakta takes cold shower feeling joyously. But pratah snana is a > must for both sadhana bhakta and raganuga bhakta. > > Devotional principles are same for both sadhana bhakta and raganuga bhakta. > The only difference is in the first case they are followed by force of Guru, > Sadhu, and Shastra feeling austerity or tapasya, and in second case also > according to Guru,Sadhu, and Shastra but voluntarily or spontaneously, with > great pleasure. > > That is my understanding. > > Your humble servant, > Bhadra Govinda Das. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2000 Report Share Posted September 25, 2000 On 24 Sep 2000, Bijaya Kumara das Brian D. Grover wrote: > but you, yourself, wrote here that there are differences and quite > strikingly different. They are both Krsna concious but greatly > different. Agreed. The difference is only in the mood / consciousness of the devotee. There is no difference in the basic regulative principles of Bhakti, such as the 64 regulative principles of devotional service. They remain same both in vaidhy *sadhana* stage and at raganuga *sadhana* stage. Both are sadhakas. Vaidhy Sadhaka and Raganuga Sadhaka. sadhana means Practice. Vaidhy sadhana and raganuga sadhana. One more examples is, a vaidhy sadhaka may very carefully avoid making offences, because the shastra says, one will fall down to hell due to offence, or becuase in Hari Bhakti Vilasa Rupa Goswami states it as the 19th regulative principle of devotional service. A raganuga sadhaka automatically or naturally avoids offences, not because of the fear of fall down, or becuase he remembers the 19 th regulative principle of Hari Bhakti Vilasa by Srila Rupa Goswami, but because it is simply by his nature or consciouness he does not make offences. The point is both vaidhy sadhaka and raganuga sadhaka avoid offences. The devotional principle of avoiding offence does not change. It remains the same, in both cases. Your humble servant, Bhadra Govinda Das. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2000 Report Share Posted September 25, 2000 > "Bhadra Govinda (das) JPS (Singapore - SG)" wrote: > > > > There is no difference between sadhana bhakti and raganuga bhakti. They > > are both same just like the two sides of a leaf. The top smooth surface > > of the leaf is raganuga and the bottom rough surface is Vaidhi. The only > > difference is in the sadhana bhakti one performs devotional activities > > by force of Guru,Sadhu, abnd Shastra. In raganuga stage they perform > > the same but spontaneously. Bijaya Kumar prabhu wrote: > but you, yourself, wrote here that there are differences and quite > strikingly different. They are both Krsna concious but greatly > different. Yes, I thought the differences were quite significant that's why I posted the text. The person in the raganuga stage will never fall down, and he has the 'distinct advantage' as Srila Prabhupada writes, of having the 'direct instruction' of the Lord. Your servant Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2000 Report Share Posted September 27, 2000 > "Bhadra Govinda (das) JPS (Singapore - SG)" wrote: > > > > There is no difference between sadhana bhakti and raganuga bhakti. They > > are both same just like the two sides of a leaf. The top smooth surface > > of the leaf is raganuga and the bottom rough surface is Vaidhi. The only > > difference is in the sadhana bhakti one performs devotional activities > > by force of Guru,Sadhu, abnd Shastra. In raganuga stage they perform > > the same but spontaneously. Just a clarification about mistaking raganuga for ragatmika. Ragamika is spontaneous devotional service, the "raga" is "atmika" (of the soul). Raganuga, like vaidhi, is also according to guru, sadhu and sastra -- "anuga" (following in the footsteps) of "raga." yours in service, vaiyasaki dasa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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