ganges or Yamuna, how is gutter water transcendental?

[Guest guest]

> Could we understand from C-c quote that Nawab Hussain would accept such

> thing as normal, and that Sanatana Goswami knew that this is good excuse

> in Muslim culture, without need of suggesting possibility of Goswami's

> actually doing it ?

 

Maybe. It is impossible to ascertain.

[Guest guest]

Pranams. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

 

On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Bhakti Purusottama Swami (Mayapur - IN) wrote:

> > water is forbidden by sastra. However, that passing stool near the bank of

> > the Ganges was common practice at the time of Lord Caitanya and may have

> > been done by Sanatana Goswami is suggested by the following.

> >

> > Sanatana replied, "There is no danger. The Nawab has gone to the south. If

> > he returns, tell him that Sanatana went to pass stool near the bank of the

> > Ganges and that as soon as he saw the Ganges, he jumped in.

> >

> It is not necessarily mean that sanatana goswami was using bank of Ganges

> for nature call . May be he told like this just to cheat them.

>

It's said that Sethji Phundanlal Shah, who built the celebrated

"Shahji mandir" in Vrindaban, never ever soiled the dhama with his own

waste; he had pots imported from outside of Vraja (i.e., made with the

clay of some other place), and used those for evacuating. He daily

disposed of these by sending them outside of Vraja. He and his brother

Kundanlal (known as Lalitamadhuri and Lalitakishori, respectively)

practiced extreme devotional service in other ways too.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Mahamantra (das) ACBSP (Vrindavan - IN) wrote:

> Dear Mukunda Datta das. Jaya Prabhupada.

Dandavats. Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

> Thanks for finding out this sloka evidence in support of your original

> statements. It does deepen appreciation of the tolerance we must develop

> while trying to understand and discover the spiritual nature of the dhama's

> that are manifest on this planet.

It's also noteworthy that evidently such spiritual potency, as

Gurudasa once put it, "renders physical laws elastic." But just how much

can we strain this principle? I don't know. It's undeniable that the

Ganga cannot be polluted, but the abuse of these sacred rivers is quite

visible to everyone; hence the work of the reformers I mentioned earlier.

 

 

> That the verse is especially spoken about the Ganga is interesting, as we

> all know (while bathing) what we unavoidably see on the rocks right near the

> ganga at Mayapura so this verse, while not condoning the aparadhas and bad

> bahavior of the dvipada pasus, gives some solace to the minds of sad

> devotees who are forced to witness it.

I don't see any harm in the efforts of Veer Bhadra Mishra and

others who want people to stop putting their needless pollutants into

the Ganga (whether directly or indirectly), except that they also tend

to reinforce people's mundane view of the Ganga, etc. Adopting others'

arguments though they don't stress sanctity and respect may end up a

troublesome or counterproductive compromise, at least as far as we're

concerned.

 

 

> > "One must dedicate oneself and one's belongings to ShrI KRSNa

> > just as, in everyday life, a servant puts himself entirely at the service

> > of his employer. Evrything that is dedicated to KRSNa

> Mostly Understood to mean only offering satvika upacaras favourable things,

> (anukula) am I right?

I would think so, since the finest things are meant for Krishna. The

first order of business is to inspire people to offer things to Krishna at

all (yena kena prakarena, etc.).

 

 

Of course, on the oposite end of the spectrum even

> PUtanA and AghAsura, manigriva and Nalakuvera became purified and elevated

> to the Lords association by coming in contact with the Lord, despite sinful

> lives and tendencies. re: SB 10.12.39, 3.23.23, 10.10.42.

Thanks for these references. They remind me of something else.

I've always been a bit mystified by that verse in the Bhagavatam where

Naradamuni(?) says he considers the demons to be even more fortunate than

the devotees. Have you some insights to share on this? Unfortunately I

don't remember the exact verse offhand.

 

 

> Although the verse was about the Ganga by speaking it to Vallabhacarya while

> he was on the BAnk of the Yamuna, it appears the Lord intended it to be

> applicable for all rivers.

That's a good observation too. To me, the very fact that he so

easily made this analogy implies that this was a more widely recognized

principle in Vallabhacarya's time than it is now, and that it was enough

in currency that he could support his assertion by referring to it. But

for that matter, Srila Rupa Gosvami did likewise in Upadesamrta (6).

 

 

> AcintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkeNa yojayet: the Supreme Lord and His

> form, name, pastimes and paraphernalia are inconceivable to nondevotees, and

> one should not try to understand such realities simply by logical arguments.

> They will not bring one to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth.

There are several other bhedabheda schools, but the inconceivable

potency is the salient feature of ours.

 

 

> > Take it for what it's worth. I hope this helps somewhat. Hare

> > Krishna.

> Thanks a lot, Mukunda DAtta ji. This verses *do* bathe my intellect

> somewhat. Nonetheless for the sake of mental peace, reverence, tranquil

> spiritual contemplation on Sri Gangadevi or Yamunadevi, (and common

> decency,) I *still happily support* bathing in the Yamuna bit downstream one

> direction or the other away from the drainpipe.

Frankly, I can sympathize with you. I might speak differently

if I actually lived on the banks of the Yamuna!

 

Your servant,

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

Jai Srila Prabhupada. All glories to the pundits on this issue.

I probably am like a lame duck in the association of beautiful swam like

vaisnava's and shouldnt even attempt to comment as I just briefly glanced at

this series of conversation and may speak out of turn. Please forgive me.

However I will dare mention a few things as I find this an interesrting

topic.

1 Srila Prabhupada remarked that when he was a boy that his father and him

would bathe in the ganga (in calcutta the mouth of ganga). often there would

be stools floating and they would just splash it out of the way. He also

mentioned one old gentleman who would regularly drink the ganga and any

desease he would get would be cured easily.

 

2 we all know the quote by Rupa goswami about the foam on the banks of the

ganges and one should not think that the ganges is polluted.

 

3. When Kaliya serpaent was in the Yamuna his pulluting the yamuna was so

bad that the trees on the banks would die and birds flying over would just

drop out of the sky dead. Krsna himself became the supreme ecologist and rid

the yamuna of the polluting element.

 

 

Jaya Govinda dasa

[Guest guest]

FYI...

 

 

 

http://www.indiaexpress.com/news/regional/uttar_pradesh/20000928-0.html

 

 

Ganga, Yamuna need massive clean-up before Kumbh Mela

28th Sept 2000 17.07 IST

 

Taking a holy dip at the ''Triveni Sangam'', the confluence of the Ganga,

Yamuna and the mythical Saraswati, may not be a good idea from the

hygienic point of view.

 

Discharge of sewage water from several drains has led to increased

pollution of the Ganga and Yamuna, making the Sangam at Allahabad unfit

for the auspicious bath on the occasion of Kumbh Mela early next year,

according to a non-government organization.

 

'Ecofriends', a city-based NGO striving to bring a pollutant-free Ganga

back to the Kanpur ghats, recently conducted a survey which revealed that

57 drains carried 210 MLD (million litres a day) of waste water into the

two rivers.

 

The discharge included a deadly cocktail of waste materials and chemicals

(137 MLD) that reached Yamuna through twelve drains, while 34 drains

flowed into the Ganges to contribute the remaining 73 MLD of waste

water. No data was collected about eleven streams as they were not being

covered under the second phase of the Ganga Action Plan.

 

About the 46 rivers being taken into consideration in the second phase of

the action plan, the local civic bodies had completely trapped the water

in 39 drains and partially in one, according to Ecofriends Executive

Secretary Rakesh Jaiswal.

 

''Interception and diversion of 120 MLD drain water and treatment of 150

MLD of water remains to be done if the water is to turn fit for people to

take their holy dip at the Kumbh,'' he told UNI.

 

Mr. Jaiswal said that it was none other than the Ministry of Environment

and Forest that had certified the water at the Sangam as unfit for

bathing.

 

''Information available on the ministry's website grades the water (both

in the upstream Rasoolabad and downstream Sangam) as belonging to 'E'

category. That is, water which is fit only for irrigation or industrial

cooling,'' he said, pointing out that the desired class of water for

outdoor bathing is 'B'.

 

Mr. Jaiswal recalled that the quality of water in Allahabad was 'D' in

1996-97. The deterioration in class took place despite the implementation

of the first phase of the Ganga Action Plan.

 

The NGO chief maintained that the government could at least go for

short-term measures to ensure cleanliness of the Sangam waters by

temporary closure or diversion of the polluted drains. Adequate

chlorination of water reaching the Allahabad ghats -- a suggestion raised

last year as well -- could also help improve the state, he added.

 

''Imagine the kind of water the devout would be carrying back as 'Ganga

jal' in cans... It is irresponsible on the part of the government to be

lackadaisical with stopping sewage water reaching the Ganga on the one

hand, and organizing the mela on the other,'' he observed.

 

A foreign expert, currently staying here to oversee the Ganga Pollution

Control Campaign, shared the sentiments of the NGO. ''It is a criminal

offence to organize a mass-bathing event when so much of raw sewage is

being discharged into the Ganges,'' Mr. Reing Sekhuis, an engineer from

Holland said.

 

He also expressed surprise over the authorities not letting the people

know about any steps they were taking to fight out the health and

pollution threats. ''It is high time the government authorities worked

with the public to ensure an clean Kumbh'', he added.

 

-UNI