denying the guru's order

[Guest guest]

Is it true the other way around too. If one's Guru asks one not to get

married, and one gets married anyway. Any scriptural references?

YHS

Vpd

 

 

> Sometimes it is said that the only order of the guru one may deny is the

> order to marry. Examples of mahajanas who thus denied guru-ajna were the

> Kumaras and Bhisma. However, there is also the example of Priyavrata who

> accepted a mahajana's order to marry, against his own desire. Is there any

> authoritative statement (i.e. sastra or acarya) that one may deny the

> guru's order to marry?

 

It is Jiva Gosvami who supported the Kumaras' refusal by quoting SB 11.5.41,

the verse which subsequently appeared in Prabhupada's purport to SB 3.5.12.

It seems that on the strength of this verse one can reject the order to get

married. It is, however, a risky decision.

 

Visvanatha commented that the verse (3.5.12) illustrates how a person who is

on the level of jnana-yoga, would of course reject to be engaged in

karma-yoga.

 

It could be argued that Brahma didn't act as guru but simply as father. Just

as Daksa, who sent out his sons. Narada overruled Daksa's order to his sons

and those sons consequently went against their father's order, now following

Narada, their guru.

 

It may also be relevant that both in the case of the Kumaras and in the case

of Priyavrata the Bhagavatam does not say "he rejected" or "they refused".

The Kumaras are described as "tan-naicchannot desiring that", and

Priyavrata is described as "na eva abhyanandathe did not welcome it."

It seems that in both cases there was room for negotiations. In the case of

the Kumaras there was no negotiation because Lord Brahma became angry at

once, Rudra was born, and that settled the matter.

 

Vallabhacarya pointed this out in connection with the Kumaras, he commented,

"icch€m eva na ktavantaƒ, na tu 'na kariy€maƒ' iti ....." He explains that

the Kumaras did not say "we shall not do it." They ultimately didn't do it,

but there was a divine plan behind their hesitation. They did not really

become offenders.

 

Vallabha is the only one who got into some discussion about what the status

of the Kumaras' behavior was. Sridhara Svami did not comment on this part of

the verse, nor did Vijayadhvaja or Viraraghava.

 

In our line Jiva and Visvanatha did not treat the matter as an example of

disobedience to the guru.

 

ys end

[Guest guest]

> If there was a case that Dhruva rejected Narada's instructions after

> initiation, then I would agree that Dhruva is an example of denying

> the guru's order. Narada certainly was a guru, when he first spoke to

> Dhruva, but he wasn't Dhruva's guru.

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for pointing out the important point that surrender is

voluntary and cannot be legislated or enforced.

 

I would like to ask a question if that is okay. I was wondering about

Dhruva Maharaj's performing devotional service. At first he went to the

forest, completely determined to see the Supreme Lord, by the inspiration

of his mother Sunitha. Was he already aware of devotional service because

of being raised as a King's son? And how does Lord Krsna consider

devotional service to Him, before one meets his initiating spiritual

master? Sunitha was his first spiritual guide, but it was not formal

initiation. Can a person advance within devotinal service without an

initiating guru, but with instructions from a siksha guru?

 

your servant,

SD

 

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