ganges or Yamuna, how is gutter water transcendental?

[Guest guest]

Dear Mukunda Datta das. Jaya Prabhupada.

 

Thanks for finding out this sloka evidence in support of your original

statements. It does deepen appreciation of the tolerance we must develop

while trying to understand and discover the spiritual nature of the dhama's

that are manifest on this planet.

 

That the verse is especially spoken about the Ganga is interesting, as we

all know (while bathing) what we unavoidably see on the rocks right near the

ganga at Mayapura so this verse, while not condoning the aparadhas and bad

bahavior of the dvipada pasus, gives some solace to the minds of sad

devotees who are forced to witness it.

 

I see this is Krsna's kindness in all ways.

 

> sevakAnAM yathA loke

> vyavahAraH prasidhyati ||

> tathA kAryaM samarpyaiva

> sarveSAM brahmatA tataH || 7 ||

>

> gaGgAtvaM sarva-doSANAM

> guNa-doSAdivarNanA |

> gaGAtvena nirUpyA syAt

> tadvad atrApi caiva hi || 8 ||*

>

> "One must dedicate oneself and one's belongings to ShrI KRSNa

> just as, in everyday life, a servant puts himself entirely at the service

> of his employer. Evrything that is dedicated to KRSNa

 

Mostly Understood to mean only offering satvika upacaras favourable things,

(anukula) am I right? Of course, on the oposite end of the spectrum even

PUtanA and AghAsura, manigriva and Nalakuvera became purified and elevated

to the Lords association by coming in contact with the Lord, despite sinful

lives and tendencies. re: SB 10.12.39, 3.23.23, 10.10.42.

 

> becomes Divine in

> nature in just the same way that all the waters, both those that were pure

> and those that were impure, which enter the GangA become part of the GangA

> and so share the sacred essence of the GangA; the recieving of offerings

> by ShrI KRSNa is just like the receiving of waters by the GangA, for in

> both cases the result is the same."*

>

>

> This is of course only implicit evidence, but it's still pretty strong:

> Vallabha also claims (in text one) that Lord Krishna personally spoke it

> to him at midnight on Pavitra Ekadashi, in the month of Shravan, on the

> bank of the Yamuna at Gokula, and his servant Damodara dasa is said to>

have heard the Lord speak as well. :-)

 

Although the verse was about the Ganga by speaking it to Vallabhacarya while

he was on the BAnk of the Yamuna, it appears the Lord intended it to be

applicable for all rivers.

 

Interesting that *the vision* was substantiated by another devotee present,

like Bhaktivinoda thakura and his son seeing the darshana of the Yogapitha

temple from the rani dharmashala.

 

> In summary, the Siddhanta-rahasya says that initiation (which Shri

> Govardhana-natha is said to have at that time ordered Vallabha to offer

> others) purifies jivas of all five kinds of faults (viz., those born of

> time, place, nature, association, and contact). Initiation is actually

> atma-nivedanam. It's absolutely necessary, for Bhagavan will not accept

> anything from those without any sponsor, while everyone must first offer

> everything to the Lord.

 

interesting comments about initiation (diksa).

 

Whatever is so offered to the Lord becomes

> nondifferent from the Lord, as all things flowing into the Ganga become

> Ganga.**

 

Yes, I have to admit defeat in this regard. Yet still it is hard to bathe

right near the drain, but I see that 100-200 meters away at Kesi Ghata they

do so witout too much worry. The faith is that Krsna and Yamunamayi will

purify them and protect them from possible communicable diseases somehow.

 

Sometimes that shraddha (in these cases) has to be extraordinarily so firm.

This in the face of all odds Like Pisima (Bhavatarini) who gave her son

Madana charanamrta and the boy was cured of Cholera as a result of her firm

shraddha.

 

AcintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkeNa yojayet: the Supreme Lord and His

form, name, pastimes and paraphernalia are inconceivable to nondevotees, and

one should not try to understand such realities simply by logical arguments.

They will not bring one to the right conclusion about the Absolute Truth.

 

============ REF. SB 6.9.36

 

The Skanda PurANa confirms, acintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkeNa yojayet:

“Matters inconceivable to a common man should not be a subject for

argument.”

 

============ REF. Ädi 5.41

 

 

 

 

 

> * This translation is by Dr. Richard Barz, in his _The Bhakti Sect of

> Vallabhacarya- (Faridabad: Thompson Press, 1976), pg. 18.

>

> ** Here is how the Hindi translator in my edition explains these verses:

> "Just as without elaborating all the good and bad things which flow into

> the Ganga (all are simply Ganga-ized [GaGgApan hI]--i.e., all) are thus

> determined as the Ganga--in that exact same way, so is the self (once

> having taken initiation). The essential thing is this--by contact with

> Gangaji, all sorts of elements flowing into the Ganga become the Ganga; in

> just that manner, all sorts of things (padArtha-s), upon being offered in

> the dedication of one's self (Atma-nivedana), attain their innate quality

> as spiritual existence (brahma-bhAva)."

>

> Take it for what it's worth. I hope this helps somewhat. Hare

> Krishna.

 

Thanks a lot, Mukunda DAtta ji. This verses *do* bathe my intellect

somewhat. Nonetheless for the sake of mental peace, reverence, tranquil

spiritual contemplation on Sri Gangadevi or Yamunadevi, (and common

decency,) I *still happily support* bathing in the Yamuna bit downstream one

direction or the other away from the drainpipe . I hope no despite the

shining shastric evidence Mukunda Datta has so finely given us all, one will

fault my support in that regard.

 

ys MMDASBR

[Guest guest]

Just like in the Ganges water you will sometimes find the stool is

floating there. But that does not mean the Ganges water has become polluted.

It is practical. In Calcutta, in our childhood, I was taking bath in the

Ganges with my father. Many gentlemen regularly takes bath in the Ganges.

And the modern scientific method is: all the garbage, throw into the river.

So we were taking bath, and here is some stool floating. So we used to drive

away the stool and take bath. The stool is unable to pollute the Ganges

water. You will find in India still. The advanced gentlemen... "The dirty

water," they say, Ganges water. But you will find practically, that anyone

who is taking regular bathing in this dirty water, he is healthy. You will

find. It is very healthy. No disease touches him ordinarily. Of course, the

body is susceptible to disease, but generally, those who are taking regular

bath in the Ganges water, they are not diseased. You will find it

practically still. So as the stool floating in the Ganges water cannot

pollute the Ganges water, similarly, a devotee, even if you find

scientifically that he is crazy or he is diseased, that is not impediment.

 

(Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los

Angeles)

[Guest guest]

From Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.6.19:

 

yA vai lasac-chrI-tulasI-vimizra-

kRSNAGghri-reNv-abhyadhikAmbu-netrI |

punAti lokAn ubhayatra sezAn

kas tAM na seveta mariSyamANaH ||

 

"The river [Ganges, by which the King sat to fast] carries the most

auspicious water, which is mixed with the dust of the lotus feet of the

Lord and tulas leaves. Therefore that water sanctifies the three worlds

inside and outside and even sanctifies Lord Siva and other

demigods. Consequently everyone who is destined to die must take shelter

of this river."

 

Purport

"Maharaja Pariksit, just after receiving the news of his death

within seven days, at once retired from family life and shifted himself to

the sacred bank of the Yamuna River. Generally it is said that the King

took shelter on the bank of the Ganges, but according to Srila Jiva

Gosvami, the King took shelter on the bank of the Yamuna. Srila Jiva

Gosavmi's statement appears to be more accurate because of the

geographical situation. Maharaja Pariksit resided in his capital

Hastinapura, situated near present Delhi, and the River Yamuna flows down

past the city. Naturally the King would take shelter of the River Yamuna

because she was flowing past his palace door. And as far as sanctity is

concerned, the River Yamuna is more directly connected with Lord Krsna

than the Ganges. The Lord sanctified the River Yamuna from the beginning

of His transcendental pastimes in the world. While His father Vasudeva was

crossing the Yamuna with the baby Lord Krsna for a safe place at

Gokula on the other bank of the river from Mathura, the Lord fell down in

the river, and by the dust of His lotus feet the river at once became

sanctified. It is especially mentioned herein that Maharaja Pariksit took

shelter of that particular river which is beautifully flowing, carrying

the dust of the lotus feet of Lord Krsna, mixed with tulasi leaves. Lord

Krsna's lotus feet are always besmeared with the tulasi leaves, and thus

as soon as His lotus feet contact the water of the Ganges and the Yamuna,

the rivers become at once sanctified. The Lord, however, contacted the

River Yamuna more than the Ganges. According to the Varaha Purana, as

quoted by Srila Jiva Gosvami, there is no difference between the water of

the Ganges and the Yamuna, but when the water of the Ganges is sanctified

one hundred times, it is called the Yamuna. Similarly, it is said in the

scriptures that one thousand names of Visnu are equal to one name of Rama,

and three names of Lord Rama are equal to one name of Krsna."