Dhruva Maharaja

[Guest guest]

Nayana Ranjana Prabhu wrote:

 

>It is not me who has said that diksha is not necessary for chanting the

>holy name, becoming liberated (translation) & chanting offenselessly

>(purport) but it is Srila Krsnadas Kaviraja Goswami and Srila Prabhupada

>himself. Please explain the quotes below,

 

diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare

jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare

 

"One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities

required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with

his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered.

 

>I demand an explanation for the above sastric statements.

 

Dear Prabhu,

 

PAMHO. AGTSP.

 

The sastric quotes you have given are truths. They are self explanatory.

One does not need initiation to begin chanting.

 

But after chanting and *cultivating* Krishna Consciousness with out Diksha

then what. One has to take Diksha through a bonafide spiritual master.

 

Here is wonderful quote from NOD "From the date of initiation by the

spiritual master, the connection between Krishna and a person *cultivating*

Krishna consciousness is established. **With out initiation by a bonafide

spiritual master, the actual connection with Krishna Consciousness is never

performed**"

 

Also SB 1.5.39 "There is no bar for chanting this transcendental sound by

anyone, *provided* it is received through Narada's representative, coming

down by the chain of disciplic succession, or the parampara system".

 

SB 4.8.53 "It is said by *authoritative* sources that any mantra chanted

without having been received from the disciplic succession has no efficacy"

 

CC Madhya 15.108 "Unless one is initiated by a bonafide spiritual master,

all his devotional activities are *useless*. A person who is not properly

initiated can descend again into animal species".

 

And now please read the paragraph you have quoted from CC Madhya 15.108

which begins with "The chanting of Hare Krishna Maha Mantra so powerful that

it does not depend on official initiation..... (this paragraph concludes and

ends with)......One should therefore be properly *initiated* according to

revealed scriptures under the direction of a bonafide spiritual master."

 

The glories of the Holy Name such as "The chanting of the Hare Krishna

Mantra is so powerful that it does not depend on official initiation ...are

not imaginary. Also we must consider statements of the Holy Name from

various places of Srila Prabhupada's books and other Shastras in the right

perspective. It is said that the Holy Name is so powerful that simply by

chanting once some can go back to Godhead. It is also mentioned that there

are some who after chanting for millions of life times have not gone back to

Godhead. These are not contradictory statements. Srila Prabhupada explains

both are true. Because both examples are there. The latter examples (even

chanting for millions of life times) does not minimise the glories of the

Holy Name, that is 'tatartha vada' the fifth offence to the Holy Name. And

the former examples (just chanting once) does not minimise the process of

Diksha, because that will be *guror avagna*, the third offence to the Holy

Name.

 

The normal *recommended* process is one must accept the Holy Name through

Diksha, The first five basic essential principles of devotional service out

of total 64 according to Srila Rupa Gosvami in BRS involve the acceptance of

a bonafide spiritual master. That is why even Lord Krishna, and Lord

Caitanya accept Diksha, to set an example, even though it is not necessary

for them to accept Diksha.

 

This is my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Seeking your blessings and forgiveness,

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Das.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhadra Govinda Prabhu,

 

Dandavats. Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your inquiry. Let me try to answer your points.

 

> It is said that the Holy Name

>is so powerful that simply by chanting once some can go back to Godhead.

>It is also mentioned that there are some who after chanting for millions of

>life times have not gone back to Godhead.

 

The Holy Name is so powerful that nothing can overcome its influence --

except one thing -- Vaishnava aparadha. That is the only thing that will

prevent the potency of the Holy Name from manifesting. That is why

Vaishnavas daily avoid the 10 aparadhas. However, if one is negligent and

offends a Vaishnava, the Holy Name will vanish and that person will only be

left with a shadow, not the Name.

 

Our goal in life is two-fold: to chant the Holy Name without offense and to

serve the Vaishnavas without offense. How to accomplish this? Here is my

recipe.

 

You know the difference between yama and niyama -- the don'ts and the dos.

The ten offenses to the Holy Name are don'ts. We recite them every morning.

Now, let's turn them into niyama -- the dos that we practice in our

moment-to-moment life. Just turn every yama around and make it a niyama.

The 10 offenses become the 10 blessings.

 

For example, the first offense is to blaspheme the devotees who have

dedicated their lives to propagating the Holy Name of the Lord. If we make

it a niyama it becomes the first blessing.

The first blessing is to always honor the devotees who have dedicated their

lives to propagating the Holy Name of the Lord.

 

Do you get the idea? For example, the third blessing is to always abide by

the instructions of the spiritual master.

 

You can go through the list and mold your life according to the 10 blessings

which is a postive way to never commit offenses. Then the Holy Name will

dance on your tongue and you will be transported to Goloka Vrindavan.

 

 

>Your quote "Chanting the Holy Name does not depend on initiation,

>pious activities or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed

>before initiation. The Holy Name does not wait for all these activities. It

>is self-sufficient", is true. But after chanting and *cultivating* Krishna

>Consciousness with out Diksha then what. One has to take Diksha through a

>bonafide spiritual master.

>

>Here is wonderful quote from NOD "From the date of initiation by the

>spiritual master, the connection between Krishna and a person *cultivating*

>Krishna consciousness is established. **With out initiation by a bonafide

>spiritual master, the actual connection with Krishna Consciousness is never

>performed**"

 

It is the quote of Rupa Goswami, who also wrote Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu. Your

quote from NOD is in the Introduction by Srila Prabhupada. The meaning is

clear. One cannot make progress on his own. He must accept a spiritual

master and follow his instructions. This is initiation, and initiation takes

place in the heart.

 

If one takes to chanting Hare Krishna mantra and follows all the principles,

it is to be understood that he has accepted a spiritual master. Otherwise,

why is he following these instructions? You are probably thinking that the

formal ceremony with fire yajna and change of name is initiation and nothing

else is initiation. Srila Prabhupada explains that he accepted his spiritual

master in his heart in 1922 and then took formal initiation in 1933. Do you

think that for 11 years Prabhupada's actual connection with Krishna

consciousness was never performed?

 

Since we are nitya krsna dasa, eternal servants of Krishna, once we begin

chanting and following the process our actual connection to Krishna is

re-awakened. It always exists, but we forget until we take up the chanting

process (without offenses) which is always inspired by an advanced Vaishnava

who is sent by the mercy of Krishna. This is guru. There are many gurus, but

guru is one -- that is he inspires us to take up the process of Krishna

consciousness.

 

>The normal *recommended* process is one must accept the Holy Name through

>Diksha. The first five basic essential principles of devotional service

>out of total 64 according to Srila Rupa Gosvami in BRS involve the

>acceptance of a bonafide spiritual master. That is why even Lord Krishna,

>and Lord Caitanya accept Diksha.

 

Exactly, and They accepted through the heart. They had no fire yajna

ceremony. Not that I am against the ceremony, but more important is the

change of heart. Without a change of heart the ceremony is simply

show-bottle.

 

Yours in service, vaiyasaki dasa...

[Guest guest]

Dear Vaiyasaki Prabhu,

 

Dandavats. Jaya Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Your Grace.

 

>If one takes to chanting Hare Krishna mantra and follows all the

>principles,it is to be understood that he has accepted a spiritual master.

 

If all the principles here, include the first 3 basic principles 1)accepting

the shelter at the lotus feet of a spiritual master 2)becoming *initiated*

by the spiritual master and learning how to discharge devotional service

from him 3)obeying the orders of the spiritual master with faith and

devotion then only it is to be understood that he has accepted a spiritual

master (Diksha Guru). If some one is following the remaining 61 principles

with out the first 3 principles then it means one still has not accepted a

Diksha Guru.

 

>Otherwise,

>why is he following these instructions?

 

Everyone is also eating the same food. But devotees eat sanctified food.

The non devotees may think, just by keeping the bhoga plate in front of

Krishna, and performing the sacrifice how is Krishna eating. The food is as

it is. So the non devotee thinks and he goes on eating his own sins.

 

Similarly, some one may think, I am also following all the principles

(instructions) of devotional service (the remaining 61 principles leaving

out the first 3), why should I bother to follow the first 3 priciples, I am

getting the same benefit. I am also living in Mathura, I am also reading SB

etc,. No need to take formal initiation.

 

Formal initiation is required as much as formal offering of Bhoga is

required. This is just an anology.

 

After formal initiation only the actual connection is made according to

Srila Prabhupada and all the acaryas, as I submitted the quotes earlier.

 

>You are probably thinking that the

>formal ceremony with fire yajna and change of name is initiation and

>nothing

>else is initiation. Srila Prabhupada explains that he accepted his

>spiritual

>master in his heart in 1922 and then took formal initiation in 1933. Do you

>think that for 11 years Prabhupada's actual connection with Krishna

>consciousness was never performed?

 

Yes. the actual connection was never performed according to Srila

Prabhupada's earlier quotes, I supplied. If the actual connection was

performed 11 years earlier then there was no necessity of taking a formal

initiation in 1933. There was no necessity for Srila Prabhupada later

giving formal initiation to 5000+ disciples. He could have told every one

to follow the devotional principles without going through the formal

process. Ofcourse in the above case the *process* of connection started in

1922 but actual connection completed in 1933.

 

>Since we are nitya krsna dasa, eternal servants of Krishna, once we begin

>chanting and following the process our actual connection to Krishna is

>re-awakened. It always exists, but we forget until we take up the chanting

>process (without offenses) which is always inspired by an advanced

>Vaishnava who is sent by the mercy of Krishna. This is guru. There are many

>gurus,but guru is one -- that is he inspires us to take up the process of

>Krishna consciousness.

 

For a daughter-in-law of the house in a vedic family, there are many elders

in the family who give instructions to her how to carry on her services and

maintain a healthy relationship with all in the family and how to stay

dutiful towards her husband etc,. But none of them can replace the

requirement of the husband. For her to actually get the fruit of her

marriage, her husband has to do the garbhadana. Here she may learn many

theoritical instructions from the rest, but finally the actual Garbhadana is

performed by the husband alone. She has to respect the rest of the senior

members in the family as much as she respects her husband, but no body can

replace the husband's role. All gurus are to be respected but that does not

mean one can go on with out Diksha Guru.

 

>> That is why even Lord Krishna,

>>and Lord Caitanya accept Diksha.

 

>Exactly, and They accepted through the heart. They had no fire yajna

>ceremony. Not that I am against the ceremony, but more important is the

>change of heart. Without a change of heart the ceremony is simply

>show-bottle.

 

According to time place, place and circumstances the details of the ceremony

performed may change. But a formal initiation is required to make the

connection. This means it is a serious committment. In Kaliyuga, some boy

and girl may live together simply by agreement and engage in family life and

bear children. But the actual recommended process is one must go through a

formal marriage ceremony where they are declared husband and wife. The

marriage ceremony customs may change from time and place but a formal

offcial declaration that they are husband and wife is required. Similarly

an official ceremony which is called upaniti is required, to declare who is

the Diksha Guru.

 

"The ceremony performed to initiate a disciple into the study of spiritual

science is called upaniti, or the function that brings one nearer to the

spiritual master. One who cannot be brouht nearer to a spiritual master

cannot have a sacred thread, and thus he is indicated as a Sudra". CC Adi

1.46

 

Regarding the changing of name, it is essential for a disciple name to be

changed after initiation.

 

Translation "My dear Sakara Mallika, from this day your names will be

changed to Srila Rupa and Srila Sanatana...."

 

Purport "......After initiation the disciple's name must be changed to

indicate he is a servant of Lord Vishnu..........A member of the sahajiya

sampradaya does not change his name, therefore he cannot be considered as a

gaudiya Vaishnava. If a person does not change his name after initiation,

it is to be understood that he will continue in his bodily conception of

life" CC Madhya 1.208

 

As rightly pointed by you a person simply by taking a formal Diksha his

business is not over. "Srila Rupa Gosvami warns that if a person is

properly initiated by a bonafide spiritual master, he should not think that

simply by accepting such initiation his business is then finished. One

still has to follow the rules and regulations very carefully. If after

accepting the spiritual master and being initiated one does not follow the

rules and regulations of devotional service, then he is again

fallen....................In other words, simply becoming initiated does not

elevate one to the position of a high class brahmana. One also has to

discharge the duties and follow the regulative principles very rigidly."

Nectar of Devotion.

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Das.