charity and ISKCON

[Guest guest]

> Here is a little example from former times how we understood "charity"

> justified with the quotes of Srila Prabhupada which were given in this

> actual discussion: Once a devotee - at that time the best book distributor

> in Germany - was asked by an old handicapped lady in a wheelchair on the

> street to help her crossing the street. The devotee asked her to take a

> book, she neclected. Then he did not help her with the words "then help

> yourself!!". This attitude was praised by our "sannyasis" in classes....

 

I think that in this particular case and in many similar cases the immature

devotees were acting without either spiritual or material common sense. I'm

sure this devotee had good chances to distribute his books be he little more

SPIRITUALLY compassionate, tactful and communicative. At least he could make

an impression of a devotee being the "pefect gentleman" which in turn could

help this lady to become more inclined to the devotees.

 

> My personal conclusion for myself is since I never was a great soul and

> maybe I will never reach it at least I better help people from not

> starving and become purified by the way than waiting until I am a great

> soul for helping people on the "best" and "highest" platform.

 

Mataji, I very much apreciate your compassion and I'm bowing down to your

lotus feet (I'm serious). Your point is fully in line with Lord Krsna's

teachings in BG 12.8-11 (I'm pasting the verses at the end of letter).

Of course something is better than nothing but why not to try to

help the people from starving permanently? There is no point of waiting for

becoming perfect - not many of us are the great souls but we have very

powerful spiritual weapons... Prasad, kirtan and Krsna-katha (including

preaching to the newcomers and outsiders) are powerful enough to change the

life of any conditioned soul including ourselves. Otherwise how do you

expect to become "great soul" - by mundane charity, austerity, or by

mauna-vrata? Personally I don't have time for doing material charity and I

know that many devotees are themselves starving but neverthelles they

continue preaching to help others spiritually. May be if you're a millionary

you're able to make some noticing input into the lives of bums on a street

but I can show you better ways to utilise your money in direct Krsna's

service (if you don't trust me you may approach your spiritual master for

help).

 

Sorry but I can't understand one thing: if we have innumerable ways of using

almost everything in direct devotional service then why we're so much

advocating doing the material charity works?

 

Your servant

Visista dasa

 

 

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Bhagavad Gita, chapter 12 verses 8-11

 

"Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage

all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a

doubt.

 

My dear Arjuna, O winner of wealth, if you cannot fix your mind upon Me

without deviation, then follow the regulative principles of bhakti-yoga. In

this way develop a desire to attain Me.

 

If you cannot practice the regulations of bhakti-yoga, then just try to work

for Me, because by working for Me you will come to the perfect stage.

 

If, however, you are unable to work in this consciousness of Me, then try to

act giving up all results of your work and try to be self-situated.

 

If you cannot take to this practice, then engage yourself in the cultivation

of knowledge. Better than knowledge, however, is meditation, and better than

meditation is renunciation of the fruits of action, for by such renunciation

one can attain peace of mind."

[Guest guest]

Dear Adipurusa Prabhu.

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Thank you for your reply. The moment I saw you joining debate, I knew that

if we are lucky, we will get some necatrian explanation from you. As you can

imagine, I'm more than interested in your opinion.

 

As I see it, you are solving apparent controversy by linking it to

understanding of our culture and our philosophy.

 

I'm really happy for your explanation. But you leave me with a question. Can

you please explain a bit more? It seems that there is more to it, than what

you have already explained.

 

You quoted biography of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, that is

being prepared by HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami. It is interesting, that Bhakti

Vikasa Maharaja was here in forum strictly presenting philosophy through

Prabhupada, although he is well aware of culture. I could also almost say,

that while quoting philosophy, he was actually at the same time also

presenting culture, as was given to us by Prabhupada. One could say, that in

those quotes there was both, our culture and our philosophy. Therefore I

beleive, that there must be more to it. It is impossible for me to guess,

what is his view, but I hope that he will be willing to share his view with

us. I think that this would be extremely valuable for all of us.

 

....

Returning to your points.... While reading your explanation, the following

thing came to my mind. As I see it, the answer may be in definition of

CULTURE. Srila Prabhupada states "The rajas stage of life gives a slight

clue to the realization of the Absolute Truth in the forms of fine

sentiments in philosophy, art and culture with moral and ethical principles"

(please see full quote below at Qo1). And in another place he speaks about

brahminical culture (pls see quotes Qo2 and Qo3). First culture (rajastic)

seems to be more socially oriented. But second (sattvic) seems to be more

knowledge and self-control oriented.

 

As you mention, devotee's modus operandi and culture is satva. Therefore, we

can say that devotees will tend to base their preaching on "brahminical

culture, the development of the dormant qualities of goodness, namely

truthfulness, equanimity, sense control, forbearance, simplicity, general

knowledge, transcendental knowledge, and firm faith in the Vedic wisdom" as

per Qo2, and not on "fine sentiments in philosophy, art and culture with

moral and ethical principles", as per Qo1.

 

It seems to me, that although our philosophical understanding is identical,

actions come out differently, because preaching is done within different

understanding of culture. I'd say that one could apply philosophy more from

Qo1, but another more from Qo2 or Qo3. (BTW. Could this be defininition to

judge what is "bridge preaching", and what is "direct preaching"?)

 

Now, interesting questions arise. Is one culture better than another? If

yes, then which one is better for ISKCON? From my mind, I'd say that more

proper is from sattva, and not from rajas. Therefore, I beleive I'm correct,

if I tend to put more value on Prabhupada's quotes, as presented by Bhakti

Vikasa Maharaja to our discussion. Especially, since Prabhupada is not only

giving philosophical understanding, but also cultural understanding.

 

I beleive that any culture we get, comes from Prabhupada. Of course, those

living in India may value it differently, but in my personal case (and maybe

other westerners), there is only Prabhupada. And therefore it is best if we

base our cultural understanding on his quotes. But of course, there is

always some uncertainty. Please, correct my understanding. I have no

intention to argue, I just wish I could learn to view things in proper

perspective and thus appreciate service of all devotees.

 

ys gnd

 

==quotes===============================

Qo1. The uncivilized state of life, or the life of the lower animals, is

controlled by the mode of tamas. The civilized life of man, with a passion

for various types of material benefits, is the stage of rajas. The rajas

stage of life gives a slight clue to the realization of the Absolute Truth

in the forms of fine sentiments in philosophy, art and culture with moral

and ethical principles, but the mode of sattva is a still higher stage of

material quality, which actually helps one in realizing the Absolute Truth.

 

Qo2. Without cow protection and cultivation of the brahminical qualities in

human society, at least for a section of the members of society, no human

civilization can prosper at any length. By brahminical culture, the

development of the dormant qualities of goodness, namely truthfulness,

equanimity, sense control, forbearance, simplicity, general knowledge,

transcendental knowledge, and firm faith in the Vedic wisdom, one can become

a br€hmaa and thus see the Lord as He is.

 

Qo3. The mode of goodness, or the brahminical culture recommended in the

Vedic literatures, is helpful to such spiritual realization, and thus the

j˜€na-œakti stage of the conditioned soul is comparatively better than the

other two stages, namely dravya-œakti and kriy€-œakti.

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