Iskcon's social welfare work should be regulated& w/preaching too!

[Guest guest]

SrI SrI Guru Gaurangau Jayatah

 

Camp: Vitebsk, Belorussia

DaNDavats Dear all. Jaya Krishna BalarAma!

Please accept my respectful obeisances. All Glories to Sreela PrabhupAda..

 

Visista's points as well as Giri nayaka's are all well balanced.

 

Yes, these revered sannyasi's are not rejecting Iskcons "welfare work" they

want it regulated so it does not appear ordinarily mundane. yet in some

places of the world, Chechniya, and Muslim countries, (devotee NRIs' work)

we certainly do and will have to disguise ourselves. In other countries,

kirtan while distributing prasada is nice and beneficial.

 

of course Householders may do this welfare work in addition to sadhana, (or

sometimes end up in that line of work doing it as they unfortunately feel

they have no taste for propogating hari katha). it looks like to me that

Krsna in BG mentioned this possibility.

 

BG 12. 11

TEXT

athaitad apy aakto 'si

kartuˆ mad-yogam €ritaƒ

sarva-karma-phala-ty€gaˆ

tataƒ kuru yat€tmav€n

Audio

SYNONYMS

atha—even though; etat—this; api—also; aaktaƒ—unable; asi—you are;

kartum—to perform; mat—unto Me; yogam—in devotional service; €ritaƒ—taking

refuge; sarva-karma—of all activities; phala—of the results;

ty€gam—renunciation; tataƒ—then; kuru—do; yata-€tma-v€n—self—situated.

TRANSLATION

If, however, you are unable to work in this consciousness of Me, then try to

act giving up all results of your work and try to be self-situated.

PURPORT

It may be that one is unable even to sympathize with the activities of KŠa

consciousness because of social, familial or religious considerations or

because of some other impediments. If one attaches himself directly to the

activities of KŠa consciousness, there may be objections from family

members, or so many other difficulties. For one who has such a problem, it

is advised that he sacrifice the accumulated result of his activities to

some good cause. Such procedures are described in the Vedic rules. There are

many descriptions of sacrifices and special functions of puŠya, or special

work in which the result of one's previous action may be applied. Thus one

may gradually become elevated to the state of knowledge. It is also found

that when one who is not even interested in the activities of KŠa

consciousness gives charity to some hospital or some other social

institution, he gives up the hard-earned results of his activities. That is

also recommended here because by the practice of giving up the fruits of

one's activities one is sure to purify his mind gradually, and in that

purified stage of mind one becomes able to understand KŠa consciousness.

Of course, KŠa consciousness is not dependent on any other experience,

because KŠa consciousness itself can purify one's mind, but if there are

impediments to accepting KŠa consciousness, one may try to give up the

results of his actions. In that respect, social service, community service,

national service, sacrifice for one's country, etc., may be accepted so that

some day one may come to the stage of pure devotional service to the Supreme

Lord. In Bhagavad-g…t€ (18.46) we find it is stated, yataƒ pravttir

bh™t€n€m: if one decides to sacrifice for the supreme cause, even if he does

not know that the supreme cause is KŠa, he will come gradually to

understand that KŠa is the supreme cause by the sacrificial method.

 

no doubt, that like at Sandipani muni' school or other ones you'll get mixed

success. some vrajabasis turn out nice, and others get degraded all due to

bad association, and kali yuga prabhava. SB 12,2 satyam sucham, daya, etc

will decrease daily due to kali yuga.

 

so Iskcon should fight this by setting good examples. to not let Kali

(quarrel) in, and especially not to fight amongst ourselves too!

 

having Householders around the world who desire to help this with their

"artha". by serving vrajabasi children who can turn out nice is very good no

doubt, as some of them will reciprocate and become devotees (at least

favourable), but there are sinful Indians (and in Vraja as well) who try to

steal Kurma rupa's cows for slaughter.

 

recently, I even met the Indian consulate general in Bahrain who is from

Mathura, yet is a prolific drunkard! who cares little for Krsna!

 

what we have seen is the increasing westernisation of India and Vraja! the

"Gosvami's with TV's blaring in Radha damodara compound,

 

with some level of degragation going on, and wifes being beaten, and made to

have children without financial ability to support.

 

but then the big question (in my mind at least) is if the local man has" no

paisa, to support the child".

 

why did they have sex to pop out the kid in the first place? Rupa should

then start a new one :"vasectomies for life". Harrassed ladies who have too

many kids to pay/ care for in the rural areas might be for it.

 

perhaps Indira gandhi's forced sterilizations in the 1975 emergency had some

very strange logic to it.

 

you can't "force" people to be celebate, yet the poverty too many varna

sankara's cause *is unfortunate*.

 

both the worlds dhani, and adhani householders also have a role in that

regulating that unfortunate inability to take the majority lead in caring.

 

Its disgusting that many "vrajavasis" turn to booze, animal slaughter, black

marketing, crime etc. Is no wonder then that some devotees doubt if

increasing emphasis On Iskcon's various levels of service to the public,

should not be balanced more to reflect our philosophy and especially to

increase the Chanting of Hari nama.

 

the local bureauocracy in India is corrupt to the core, If FFL and other

NGO"S can inspire the Locals themselves to root out corruption, boozing,

animal slaughter etc, then that would be an improvement.

 

otherwise there will always be arguements against stressing mundane

Religious social welfare work.

 

after all..should we serve their families and kids when many grow up

becoming drankards, and thieves who try to steal cows for slaughter?

 

too bad Indian society has no effective way of collecting statistics to

guage one way or another, but the trends of Indian society are certainly

bad.

 

remember Bhakti vikasa swamis' wrote "message to the Youth of India" and

"traditional Indian village life"

 

The world needs 'compassionate' yet straight preaching more then mundane

oriented welfare work for 2 legged animals.

 

I've heard that Krsna is go-brahmana hitaya ca, and is more inclined to

serve the cows then even serving "so called brahmanas" , who by Kali yuga

influences can swerve from the dharmic path, but cows don't swerve at all

from their nature, so they are better to serve them!

 

TridaNDi BhikSu, Bhakti Visrambha MAdhava

 

> We have seen quotes against and in favor of caring for the needy. My

> observation is, that there are just few quotes from Prabhupada in favor of

> helping the needy, and even those are project dependent, not general, as

> pointed out by Jayadvaita Maharaja. There are plenty "more general"

> quotes, which were sent by Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja and it is obvious, that

> we cannot just bypass them. We cannot just reject that part of Prabhupada,

> which is not aligned with our beliefs.

>

> Basically we have seen three moods here, as represented by Bhakti Vikasa

> Maharaja, Jayadvaita Maharaja and Indradyumna Maharaja. All of them are

> from similar background, similar age, sannyasis, preachers, dealing with

> people, are experienced, sensitive, knowledgeable, loyal to Prabhupada....

> And etiquette is, that sannyasis are spiritual masters of entire society.

> Therefore it is most uncultured, to condemn opinion of one sannyasi in

> order to promote opinion of another, just because it suits our needs.

right. to see "Maharaja is 100% behind us".

 

I thought, "not all Maharaja's are" I know many and respect all of them on

both sides!

> If it helps, I would like to present how I see it. I cannot say anybody

> else should think like this. But it helps me in trying to have

> understanding, which includes all three moods with equal importance and

> with equal respect.

>

> Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja seems to put our motives to test and he seems to be

> against activities, which may, to the outside, people look like mundane

> charity, and in their eyes degrade us to the level of mundane charity

> organisations. Jayadvaita Swami seemed to remind us on the need to

> regulate our charitable activities, since practically all Prabhupada's

> quotes in favor of charity were specific project dependent, not general.

> And Indradyumna Maharaja was mentioned, as one who is actively engaged in

> helping the needy.

>

> It is impossible for me to accept, that they necessary contradict each

> other in some way. Rather it is more possible to me, that they present

> same truth, but each from different perspective. I would like to come to

> conclusion, that all these three moods are ok. I'm not feeling comfortable

> with identifying with just one mood, and condemn another. I'm trying to

> see all these three as part of the same ISKCON.

>

> Therefore I try to see it like this: Devotee is kind to all, both to

> daridra and dhani. We should help whenever we can. We should engage in

> bigger charity projects, provided we have blessings of our Guru and other

> authorities, whose responsibility is to engage us properly. Most helpful

> is, that our energy is invested first in projects, that were initiated by

> Prabhupada, and only when those projects are running as Prabhupada

> desired, then our power may be invested in additional projects. And all

> the time we should bear in mind, that our motive must be kept pure and we

> can not make any compromise with anyone for cheap popularity. Also we

> should be well aware, that our purity of motive still doesn't guarantee,

> that public will understant us correctly, and they may compare us to other

> similar karmi projects, which through time reveal their hidden selfish

> motives, and thus our good intentions and pure motives may actually

> degrade public opinion of Prabhupada's ISKCON to the level of mundane

> sunday religion.

>

> So, thats what I was able to come up with untill now.

>