some more quotes - respect + charity and ISKCON

[Guest guest]

> >Fortunatelly we have the GURU SADHU SASTRA principle, so is

> >anything Jayadvaita Swami said here, against it? Is it against

> >what the other sadhus say? Or against the sastra? Or against

> >Srila Prabhupada have tought us?

>

> All devotees cite guru, sadhu and shastra. The disagreement is in deciding

> what these statements mean. For example Bhaktivinoda saying the Vaishnava

> culture includes engaging in material charitable activities. This is the

> word of guru, but Jayadvaita Maharaja interprets it differently, and that

> is his right. Each of us also deserve the same right to decide what these

> things mean to us. Have the decency to let people disagree with you

> without saying they are offenders.

 

Prabhu, do I correctly understand you: as many people as many truths - is

that what you're trying to impress upon us? If hopefully not, then we're to

define whether our disagreement here is really within the acceptable

pluralism of opinions between devotees or some of us misunderstand the basic

devotional principles.

 

One time Srila Prabhupada called what you're trying to do here "jumping over

the head of our own spiritual master". Who we are to interpret Bhaktivinoda

Thakura's statements, which are often have the context that we're not aware

of?

 

Why are you taking one or several marginal (arguable) statements making out

of them principle without first studying and understanding the principal

mechanisms of bhakti and karma as it is defined by our acaryas and Sastra?

You're risking to end up with having the opinion contradicting opinions of

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati and our Srila Prabhupada which need not to be

interpreted: "In this material world there is no scarcity in ANYTHING

besides Krsna consciousness".

 

Regarding including the MATERIAL (as it follows from the previous

discussion) charity under the "Vaisnava culture" (I take it to mean Bhakti),

it is simply ignorance of plain vaisnava siddhanta as elucidated by Srila

Rupa Goswami in his Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, which was presented to us by

Srila Prabhupada as Nectar of Devotion. I recommend to all participants

whose fighting spirit is misdirected towards arguing against the "high

standards" given to us by Srila Prabhupada to simply study this book before

initiating discussion terminating in accusations, distrust and disrespect.

Why do you take Bhaktivinoda's works before first studying the basics of

NOD?

 

These are two statements by Srila Prabhupada from Invocation and

Introduction to this book:

 

"The Nectar of Devotion is SPECIFICALLY presented for persons who are now

engaged in the Krsna consciousness movement."

 

"Actually, Krsna consciousness can be based simply on hearing, chanting,

remembering, etc. Described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam are nine different

processes, besides which everything done is unfavorable to Krsna

consciousness. Thus, one should always be guarding against falldowns."

 

 

****************************************************************************

 

There are 64 direct practices of bhakti that are described in NOD and which

I take to mean "Vaisnava culture", whereas other practices, such as Yoga,

Sankhya, Viveka, Jnana, Vairagya, Varnasrama etc are clearly rejected to be

Bhakti with many relevant quotes from the Sastra.

 

Srila Rupa Goswami states in BRS 1.2.246:

 

sammatam bhakti vijnanam bhaktyangatvam na karmanam -

 

"The wise devotees do not accept activities of Varnasrama dharma to be angas

of bhakti or direct practice of devotion."

 

 

Nowhere in the NOD there is suggestion of practicing the MATERIAL charity as

helpful to our devotion as well as in the description of a devotee's values

there is no mention of his inclination to the mundane charitable work.

 

Perhaps someone may be bewildered by the following verse from BG:

 

"Acts of sacrifice, charity and penance are not to be given up; they must be

performed. Indeed, sacrifice, charity and penance purify even the great

souls." (BG 18.5)

 

 

However this statement by the Lord has to be taken in context of the whole

Gita. Krsna explains here karma-yoga, particularly performance of the

prescribed duties (varnasrama) in a detached manner. As we have already

mentioned above Srila Rupa Goswami has rejected Varnasrama to mean Bhakti.

 

In his teachings Bhaktivinoda Thakura has introduced varnasrama as being the

best environment for practicing the culture of Bhakti. Srila Prabhupada had

also emphasized instigating the varnasrama principles into the life of

modern society in order to put it from staying upside down back to legs. But

nowhere our acaryas have equated practices such as charity, sacrifice and

penance obligatory within the Varnasrama system to the direct practices of

Bhakti prescribed in Bhakti-sastras. Sorry but you're making it up -

 

For a Vaisnava the highest welfare activity is preaching the message of the

Lord. Of course there are many ways to improve the social opinion about

Krsna Consciousness movement by acts of charity etc which are often utilized

by devotees, however pure Vaisnavas are not entangled into the trap of

material affections and aversions and never engage in mundane activities

that Srila Prabhupada would call blowing on the boil. These can be

considered as pure devotional service only as long as they are serving the

mission of preaching and done with correct understanding of their

purposefulness.

 

 

Hare Krsna,

 

Your servant

Visista dasa