Marriage without children

[Guest guest]

> > Why is the marriage without children considered abominable?

>

> Never heard such thing, nor found is in Vedabase. What is the source?

> Prabhupada often quoted "putr€rthe kriyate bh€ry€ putra-piŠa-

> prayojanam." On the level of dharma one gets married to get a son who

> offers pinda to prevent father's residence in hell.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Your servant, bh. Jan

>

> www.veda.harekrsna.cz

> (Bhakti-yoga Vedic Encyclopedia Vedic Library Links)

 

You have answered the question, denying it's importance, Bhakta Jan.

 

We are followers of Vedic culture, although I'm sure there are a great

number of "western" devotees who are not fully aware of that!

 

And... you didn't do a thorough search of the database, as you'll see from

just some of the quotes that I found, below.

 

Any of the readers can correspond with Bhakti Charu Maharaj, one of the

recognized authorities in ISKCON on Vedic culture, to confirm my viewpoint.

 

Hope this helps in your understanding: all of the readers of this text.

 

das,

 

Basu Ghosh Das

 

"Mah€r€ja Pthu, the incarnation of God, descended by the prayer of the

br€hmaŠas to rectify the disorders on earth. He produced all kinds of crops.

But, at the same time, he performed the duty of a son who delivers his

father from hellish conditions. The word putra means one who delivers from

hell, called put. That is a worthy son."

 

(SP comments in his purport on SB 2.7.9)

 

If a woman has a son, she is "saubhagyavati": "very fortunate". If not...

well, it went to such an extreme, and I agree it's the "downside" of

fanaticism, that no one in the villages of India would even LOOK at the face

of woman who was barren! Such women were considered highly inauspicious

even to look at, due to their misfortune!

 

Unless you came and lived here in "Bhaarata", India, how would you know

about these things, hence comments made in ignorance by my friend Mithila

Prabhu (a very sincere devotee) at London and by this Rama Keshava das, aka

"Mr. "know it all"!

 

Although this sounds a bit self-righteous and arrogant, I know my own

weaknesses and am a very fallen soul indeed.

 

But that doesn't mean that I'm wrong on this point: 30 years in India and my

working knowledge of samskritam (I can converse fluenty) and samskritihi

(culture) back me up on this!

 

Here's more:

 

pun-n€mno narak€d yasm€t

pitaraˆ tr€yate sutaƒ

tasm€t putra iti proktaƒ

svayam eva svayambhuv€

 

"Because a son delivers his father from punishment in the hell called put,

the son is called putra. According to this principle, when there is a

disagreement between the father and mother, it is the father, not the

mother, who is delivered by the son. But if the wife is faithful and firmly

adherent to her husband, when the father is delivered the mother is also

delivered. Consequently, there is no such thing as divorce in the Vedic

literature. A wife is always trained to be chaste and faithful to her

husband, for this helps her achieve deliverance from any abominable material

condition. This verse clearly says, putro nayati naradeva yama-kay€t: "The

son saves his father from the custody of Yamar€ja." It never says, putro

nayati m€taram: "The son saves his mother." The seed-giving father is

delivered, not the storekeeper mother. Consequently, husband and wife should

not separate under any condition, for if they have a child whom they raise

to be a VaiŠava, he can save both the father and mother from the custody of

Yamar€ja and punishment in hellish life."

 

(From SP's purport on SB 9.20.22)

 

"A chaste and faithful wife will give birth to good sons, who will then

offer oblations to their forefathers and thus deliver them if by chance they

have fallen into a hellish condition. The very word putra ("son") means "one

who can deliver his forefathers from hell." ®r… Caitanya Mah€prabhu showed

this by His example when He went to Gay€ to offer oblations to His

forefathers. Even today there is a ViŠu temple in Gay€ where such oblations

are offered at the lotus feet of Lord ViŠu. There have been cases where

one's father or mother took the body of a ghost at death, and after

oblations were offered at the lotus feet of Lord ViŠu at Gay€, the father

or mother was delivered. However, anyone who becomes a VaiŠava offers

oblations to ViŠu at every moment, and thus his forefathers are

automatically delivered. If one son in the family becomes a VaiŠava, he can

deliver fourteen generations of ancestors and fourteen generations of yet

unborn descendants. This is confirmed in the ®r…mad-Bh€gavatam."

 

(from Second Chance, chapter 13, "Ajamila begins his degraded life").

 

"So that is the position. They cannot understand that by serving KŠa, we

become healthy or in our normal position. This is called ignorance. Somebody

is trying to forget Him, somebody is trying to become equal with Him. This

business is going on. And nobody is submitting that "My Lord, I forgot my

service. From this day, I become again Your servant. Please give me

protection." Sarva-dharm€n parityajya m€m... [bg. 18.66]. This is the

teaching of all €stra, all Vedas. But these people, the other party, they

have become blind. They have become blind. Why? Lobha-upahata-cetasaƒ. They

have lost their sense. Kula-kaya-ktaˆ doam. There is a great fault by

destroying dynasty. Nowadays people are destroying from the womb, abortion,

contraception, destroying. They do not know. Kula-kaya. Actually putra.

Putra means, put means puˆ-n€ma-narakam. There is a hell which is called

puˆ-n€ma-naraka. And tra means tr€yate, deliver. So putra means

puˆ-n€ma-narak€t tr€yate iti putra. The Sanskrit word for son, putra means

that the son is expected to deliver the forefathers from the hellish

condition of life. Sometimes due to our sinful activities, we become ghost.

That is very hellish condition. So when raddh€ is offered by the putra...,

who will offer? The putra will offer. That is the duty. Then he gets again

material body. These are the subtle laws. People do not know. Neither they

are eager to know. But these are the information we get from Vedic

literature. Putra has got a duty, to save the forefathers. Therefore one has

to, it is his duty to keep a putra. At least one son he must leave. But

people are not very much anxious to have putra. Rather to kill putra. They

are so sinful. K€ma-lobha-hata-cetasaƒ. Simply sense enjoyment. That's all.

Why bh€ry€? Why one should marry? Putr€rthe kriyate bh€ry€. Bh€ry€ means

wife. One accepts a wife. Why? For a putra. For a son. Why son is required?

Putraƒ piŠaˆ prayojanam. Offering oblations by the putra to deliver the

forefathers. That is prayojanam, that is absolutely necessary. Each and

every one should leave a putra before his death. He has got so many duties.

This is Vedic civilization. But nobody now cares for that. Neither it is

possible. Therefore the only remedy is to surrender. ®araŠyam."

 

(From SP's lecture at London, July 27, 1973)

 

"KŠa said that dharma-aviruddhaƒ. Aviruddhaƒ means not against religious

principles. The religious principle is putr€rthe kriyate bh€ry€

putra-piŠa-prayojanam. According to Vedic literature, one should marry just

to have a child, putra. Putra means son. The derivative meaning of putra is

pun-n€mno narak€d yasm€t tr€yate iti putraƒ. For our sinful reaction we have

to visit some hell which is known as pun. So it is prescribed in the Hindu

scripture that the child, when the father dies, the boy has to perform

several ceremonies which is called r€ddha ceremony, so that if the father

for his sinful acts is in trouble in his next life, this ceremony will

protect him. These are some of the thoughts. And they are true. So putra

means pun-n€mno narak€d yasm€t tr€yate iti putraƒ: "One who delivers the

father from the hell which is known as pun, he is called putra." So

therefore how can I have putra without wife? If one wants a son without

wife, that is not possible. Therefore the scriptural injunction is that

according to the Vedic rules you get yourself married and have good sons to

protect your family and to protect yourself. This is called religious sex

life. So this religious sex life, KŠa recommends. And He says that "Sex

life in religiosity is..., I am. I am present there. I am present there."

 

(SP lecture at NY, Oct. 7, 1966)

 

"What is that prayojana? To get son. Marriage means to get son. That is

prayojana. Putr€yate kriyate bh€ry€ƒ. Bh€ry€ means wife. One has to accept a

bh€ry€, a wife, why? Putr€yate. For the matter of getting a son. Why? Why

there is necessity of getting a son? Putra-piŠa-prayojanam. This is Vedic

civilization. Putra. Putra means Pun-n€mno narak€d yasm€t tr€yate iti putra.

Pu-tra. Pu means pun-n€mno narak€t. There is a hell which is called put. So

from that hellish condition, one who delivers, tr€yate iti tra, therefore he

is called putra. This is... Every Sanskrit word has got meaning, root

meaning. Putra. Putra-piŠa-prayojanam. Putra is required. Why? After death,

if by chance the father does not get ordinary life or goes to the hellish

condition of life, the son will deliver. Therefore r€ddha ceremony. There

is r€ddha... What is that r€ddha ceremony? ®r€ddha ceremony means to offer

foodstuff to ViŠu, and with the pras€dam, to the forefathers or father it

is offered so that by eating pras€dam, if he is in ghost life or in hellish

life, he'll be delivered. This is called r€ddha.

So it is the duty of the son, r€ddha ceremony. And Advaita, Advait€c€rya,

He was also performing the r€ddha ceremony, and He offered the pras€dam,

the remnants of foodstuff, to Harid€sa µh€kura. Harid€sa µh€kura. Harid€sa

µh€kura was in ®€ntipura, and he was chanting Hare KŠa mantra day and

night, and when he was to take some pras€dam he used to come to

Advait€c€rya's place and take pras€dam there. So one day Harid€sa µh€kura

asked Advait€c€rya that "Why You are giving me pras€dam?" Means he presented

himself that "I am coming from Muhammadan family, but why You take so much

care upon me? You are giving me pras€dam, You are taking so much care, You

are making a cottage for me. Why? You are one of the leaders of the

br€hmaŠas in ®€ntipura, all very exalted learned br€hmaŠas, and if You are

taking so much care upon me, then they may criticize You, blaspheme You. So

I think You should not do this. I don't want that You may be criticized, or

I may be criticized."

So Advait€c€rya said, "No, no, no. I'm not doing anything against the

€stras, so nobody can criticize. I'm doing nothing against the €stra." So

in the €stras... J…va Gosv€m… also has given quotation from the €stra that

it doesn't matter from which family a person is coming, but if he's a pure

devotee, he should be taken all care, and he should be offered charity, he

should be offered pras€dam. All care should be taken for him. There is

€stra indication. So Advait€c€rya said that "I am doing the right thing.

And by feeding you I am feeding daily many millions of br€hmaŠas by feeding

you. By feeding you." These are statement in the Caitanya-carit€mta. So

this offering pras€dam, the putra, a right putra is meant for offering

pras€dam to ViŠu so that his forefather and father may be delivered. That

is the system of putra."

 

(SP SB lecture at Vrindavan, Aug. 5, 1975)

 

"Putra-piŠa. Putr€rthe kriyate bh€ry€. Bh€ry€ means wife. Wife is accepted

simply for begetting sons. Therefore it is called dharma-patn….

Dharma-patn…. A son is required... Why one should accept a wife for

begetting son? Putra-piŠa-prayojanam. According to Vedic dharma the

piŠa-d€na, offering piŠa, oblations to the forefather, putra is pun-n€mno

narak€d yasm€t tr€yate iti putraƒ. Well, everything is derivative, and it

has got sound substance in each and every word of Sanskrit. Who is putra?

There is a naraka, hell, hell, and if somebody by his sinful action is sent

to that hell, the putra will deliver him. Pun-n€mno narak€d yasm€t tr€yate.

That pun-n€mna, that pu... Pun-n€mno narak€t, the first word of that naraka,

pu, and tr€yate, tra, if combined together, it becomes putra. So putra has

meaning. Putra is not a product of sexual intercourse. No. Putra means "who

can deliver the forefather if by chance he is fallen in the hellish

condition." Therefore putra-piŠa-prayojanam. What is putra-piŠa? Caitanya

Mah€prabhu also showed us the example. He went to Gay€ Pradesh to offer

piŠa for his forefathers. This is necessary still. In Gay€ there is ViŠu

temple, and in the ViŠu temple the oblation is offered at the lotus feet of

the... There are many practical cases that one's father or mother became

ghost after death, and after offering oblations at the lotus feet of ViŠu

at Gay€, he was delivered. There are many cases.

So actual fact is ViŠu worship. That is the ultimate goal of Vedic

civilization, but they do not know. Na te viduƒ sv€rtha-gatiˆ hi viŠum [sB

7.5.31]. Their attention is diverted in so many demigods. The greatest

disservice to the society, that "Here is another god, here..." Not only

manufacturing a man-god, but they are advising that "Any god you can

worship." No: ViŠu. Tad viŠoƒ paramaˆ padaˆ sad€ payanti s™rayaƒ. This is

Vedic mantra. Those who are s™rayaƒ, means advanced... S™rayaƒ means...

S™rayaƒ and as™rayaƒ. As™rayaƒ means demons. ViŠu-bhakto bhaved suraƒ:

"Those who are devotees of Lord ViŠu, they are sura." Asuras

tad-viparyayaƒ: "And those who are not ViŠu bhaktas, they are asuras." Just

like R€vaŠa was very great devotee of Lord ®iva; still, he was a asura.

HiraŠyakaipu, he was a great devotee of Lord Brahm€, but he was considered

asura. So anyone who is not devotee of Lord ViŠu, he is asura. That is the

verdict. Asuras tad-viparyayaƒ. And this piŠa-d€na is offered oblations to

the ViŠu. So if any man becomes a VaiŠava, he is offering oblations to

ViŠu every moment, so his forefathers are delivered without any trouble.

Without any trouble. If one's son becomes a VaiŠava in the family, he can

deliver fourteen generations, up and down. That is the verdict. Not only

verdict, this is the version in the ®r…mad-Bh€gavatam."

 

(SP lecture on SB 6.1.56-62 at Surat, Jan. 3, 1971)

 

Hayagr…va: In his Politics, Plato changes his mind later in life. In the

beginning he believed that in an ideal state the leaders should possess

nothing of their own, neither property nor family. He felt that they must

live together in a community where wives and children are held in common to

guard against corruption, bribery and nepotism in government. He felt that

the elite philosophers should mate with women of high qualities in order to

produce the best children for positions of responsibility. Now, how does

this view of common wives and children correspond to the Vedic version?

Prabhup€da: Yes, Vedic civilization is that, that putr€rthe kriyate bh€ry€.

A man should accept a wife for putra, for son. Why son?

Putra-piŠa-prayojanam: a putra should be responsible for offering piŠa, so

that after death, even by mistake or somehow or other I am in a wrong

position, by the piŠa I am elevated. This is idea. So marriage is for

having good son, that's a fact, who will deliver me even if I am in the

hell. Therefore the raddh€ ceremony in there. So even the father is in

hell, by this raddh€ ceremony he will be delivered. This is the idea. So

unless one has got son, nobody is going to offer him raddh€ oblation, and

even one may be very benevolent, but it is not expected. But it is the duty

of the son, as it is said, putra. Pu means there is a hell pundama (?). The

hell's name is pundama, pun. So I mean, pu and tra, tra means one who

delivers. If by chance I am put into pundama naraka trayate, one who

delivers me from that hellish condition of life, he is putra, and for this

kind of putra I accept a wife, not for my sex enjoyment. And it is confirmed

in the Bhagavad-g…t€, one who uses his sex for these religious activities,

that "I shall get good father, a good son who can deliver me," then marriage

is required. Otherwise it is useless. Dharm€viruddho k€mo 'smi. KŠa says,

"Sex life which is not against religious principle, that is I am." And sex

life which is, which has no religious principle, that is sense gratification

leading one to hell. So this theory: that we should marry, we should have

sex life for creating good progeny. And my Guru Mah€r€ja used to say—he was

a sanny€s… brahmac€r…—but he said that "If I could produce really KŠa

conscious children, I can use hundred times sex life. Otherwise why shall I

use my sex for cat, producing cats and dog?" He has said like that. So the

€stra also says, pit€ na sa sy€t janani na sa sy€t: the father's, mother's

duty is how to rescue their children from the cycle of birth and death.

That is real father and mother. Otherwise cats and dogs, they are also

father and mother. That is not wanted. Vedic culture is different. Produce

children for such education and such accomplishment that he can be saved

from the cycle of birth and death, and the putra should be such qualified

that even his father goes to the hellish condition of pundama, he will

deliver him. That is the idea of becoming father and family.

 

(SP in discussion with Hayagriva on Plato)

 

There are more quotes in the database... I did a search using the words

"putra" and "hell"...