Questions

[Guest guest]

> 2. Demigods have subtle bodies, they taste things, a ghost has a subtle

> body, but can't (triers to enjoy through a ghost body, all I could offer

> was even in gross bodies there are difference levels, (consciousness, so I

> suppose the ghost and demigod subtle bodies are somewhat different)

>

> Any ideas?

 

One difference is that demigods can take any form they like gross or subtle

because they have higher knowledge, a ghost is forced into a limited mental

state due to ignorance.

 

Your servant,

Jahnudvipa das

[Guest guest]

Ghosts do not have gross material bodies, that is bodies made of panca

bhutas. They have only subtle bodies made of mind, intelligence and false

ego.

 

Where as demigods bodies are made of gross material bodies, made of panca

bhutas on top of their subtle bodies made of mind, intelligence and false

ego.

 

And below is an apparent contradiction in two paragraphs.

 

Of the two energies manifest [spirit and dull matter], beings possessing

living force [vegetables, grass, trees and plants] are superior to dull

matter [stone, earth, etc.]. Superior to nonmoving plants and vegetables are

worms and snakes, which can move. Superior to worms and snakes are animals

that have developed intelligence. Superior to animals are human beings, and

*superior to human beings are ghosts because they have no material bodies*.

Superior to ghosts are the Gandharvas, and superior to them are the Siddhas.

Superior to the Siddhas are the Kinnaras, and superior to them are the

asuras. Superior to the asuras are the demigods, and of the demigods, Indra,

the King of heaven, is supreme. Superior to Indra are the direct sons of

Lord Brahm€, sons like King Daka, and supreme among Brahm€’s sons is Lord

®iva. Since Lord ®iva is the son of Lord Brahm€, Brahm€ is considered

superior, but Brahm€ is also subordinate to Me, the Supreme Personality of

Godhead. Because I am inclined to the br€hmaŠas, the br€hmaŠas are best of

all.---SB 5.5.21-22

 

Those who are very sinful and attached to their family, house, village or

country do not receive a gross body made of material elements but remain in

a subtle body, composed of mind, ego and intelligence. Those who live in

such subtle bodies are called ghosts. This ghostly position is very painful

because a ghost has intelligence, mind and ego and wants to enjoy material

life, but because he doesn’t have a gross material body, he can only create

disturbances for want of material satisfaction. It is the duty of family

members, especially the son, to offer oblations to the demigod Aryam€ or to

Lord ViŠu. From time immemorial in India the son of a dead man goes to Gay€

and, at a ViŠu temple there, offers oblations for the benefit of his

ghostly father. It is not that everyone’s father becomes a ghost, but the

oblations of piŠa are offered to the lotus feet of Lord ViŠu so that if a

family member happens to become a ghost, he will be favored with a gross

body. However, if one is habituated to taking the pras€da of Lord ViŠu,

there is no chance of his becoming a ghost or anything lower than a human

being.--- SB 4.18.18

 

Your humble servant,

Bhadra Govinda Dasa.

[Guest guest]

> Ghosts do not have gross material bodies, that is bodies made of panca

> bhutas. They have only subtle bodies made of mind, intelligence and

> false ego.

>

> Where as demigods bodies are made of gross material bodies, made of

> panca bhutas on top of their subtle bodies made of mind, intelligence and

> false ego.

>

> And below is an apparent contradiction in two paragraphs.

>

> Of the two energies manifest [spirit and dull matter], beings possessing

> living force [vegetables, grass, trees and plants] are superior to dull

> matter [stone, earth, etc.]. Superior to nonmoving plants and vegetables

> are worms and snakes, which can move. Superior to worms and snakes are

> animals that have developed intelligence. Superior to animals are human

> beings, and *superior to human beings are ghosts because they have no

> material bodies*. Superior to ghosts are the Gandharvas, and superior to

> them are the Siddhas. Superior to the Siddhas are the Kinnaras, and

> superior to them are the asuras. Superior to the asuras are the demigods,

> and of the demigods, Indra, the King of heaven, is supreme. Superior to

> Indra are the direct sons of Lord Brahm€, sons like King Daka, and

> supreme among Brahm€'s sons is Lord ®iva. Since Lord ®iva is the son of

> Lord Brahm€, Brahm€ is considered superior, but Brahm€ is also

> subordinate to Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because I am

> inclined to the br€hmaŠas, the br€hmaŠas are best of all.---SB 5.5.21-22

 

In this quote Srila Prabhupada illustrates superiority of spirit over mater

as a superior being has less identification with mater. Ghost are superior

to humans since they don't have human gross body but inferior to demigods

since they have same identification with the senses and mind of a gross body

as the humans do. They don't posses the same level of freedom from

conditioning by mater as demigods do, who are notably listed in order from

more conditioned (gandharvas) to list conditioned (Lord Brahma). Interesting

thing is that Prabhupada marks brahmanas on the top of the list. It leaves

out a situation of "what if" brahmana becomes a ghost and what is his

position then?

 

> Those who are very sinful and attached to their family, house, village or

> country do not receive a gross body made of material elements but remain

> in a subtle body, composed of mind, ego and intelligence. Those who live

> in such subtle bodies are called ghosts. This ghostly position is very

> painful because a ghost has intelligence, mind and ego and wants to enjoy

> material life, but because he doesn't have a gross material body, he can

> only create disturbances for want of material satisfaction. It is the

> duty of family members, especially the son, to offer oblations to the

> demigod Aryam€ or to Lord ViŠu. From time immemorial in India the son of

> a dead man goes to Gay€ and, at a ViŠu temple there, offers oblations

> for the benefit of his ghostly father. It is not that everyone's father

> becomes a ghost, but the oblations of piŠa are offered to the lotus feet

> of Lord ViŠu so that if a family member happens to become a ghost, he

> will be favored with a gross body. However, if one is habituated to

> taking the pras€da of Lord ViŠu, there is no chance of his becoming a

SB 4.18.18

 

It seems to be consistent with the above list SB 5.5.21-22 of progression of

identification with body and desires of such a body consisting of "all"

material elements and especially "lower" material elements such as earth and

water.

 

Obviously if ghosts were not to identify with desires of human body of panca

bhutas, they would not suffer, ie if they had elevated desires such as

demigods like Bhahma might have (also material), they would not suffer in

the way described in SB.4.18.18 and will not become ghosts.

 

BTW vaisnavas do worship demigods, but unlike ignorant hindus we worship

them by offering prasadam offered to Lord Visnu, so that they will get

habituated too... But in any case human being is in-between. Take prasadam

and you will not become a ghost (higher then a human being) or take a

hellish form of body that is lower then a human being.

 

> ghost or anything lower than a human being.--- SB 4.18.18

^^

Having said that demigods and ghosts just in one perspective higher then

human beings, in an other perspecive they are less advantaged.

 

ys

 

 

Caitanya candrodaya dasa