Janmashtami Morning lecture by HH Bhanu Swami on 7th sept 2004

[Guest guest]

Janmashtami Morning lecture by HH Bhanu Swami on 7th sept 2004 at Chennai

temple

 

 

So this chapter actually describes the birth of Lord Krishna. In the

previous verses the exact timing is described. So when the Lord appears in

the material world everything becomes auspicious. Of course the time Lord

appear seems little peculiar because He appears in the middle of the night,

in the darkness which is tamoguna. Nevertheless and He also appeared on the

waning face of the moon which is also not very auspicious and even ashtami

is not an auspicious day. Nevertheless Lord appeared at that time so at that

time everything became auspicious. It is described here that the

constellation were in auspicious arrangement. Of course the moon was in

rohini nakshtra which is considered very very auspicious. The moon also

becomes exalted or very very strong in that particular sign. So it's the

very favorable sign for the moon to be in and all the other planets were

also in such arrangements that indicated auspiciousness. Generally the

planets at any point of time will be in certain houses and certain

nakshatras, in certain relationships, in certain configuration which will be

either inauspicious or auspicious. And generally we get a mixture. Sometimes

we get a predominance of bad combinations or good combinations. So in the

case when Krishna appears all the planets were in very auspicious

combination. And the sky, even though it was a monsoon season the sky

suddenly became cloudless. It was night time so therefore the stars appeared

in the sky. Everything was very very peaceful. That was monsoon season and

the rivers are generally filled with mud. The rivers became very clear. The

lakes became very clear. And suddenly all the lotuses began to bloom and the

water lily it all began to bloom in lakes and ponds and even though it was

night time the flowers began to open, different flowers began to open and

the birds began to sing in the middle of the night. Generally they go to

sleep at night; they began to sing along with the breeze. And a breeze was

blowing so generally of course the wind which is mild is very very pleasant.

So there was a pleasant breeze bringing the aroma of flowers and also at

this time the Brahmans began to light fire and began sacrifices. Even though

they had stopped sacrifices because of the prosecution of Kamsa. So, one

could hear the chanting of the brahmanas at this time also. Generally they

don't do it at night times but generally they began lighting the fire at the

night time and chanting. So in this way the Lord appeared and it is

described here in the present verses that He appeared but He did not

appeared as a normal child because the Supreme Lord is not born, for one

thing, so therefore if He born in this material world then it is rather His

appearance. The peculiar thing is that appearance is also not false.

Generally if we say it is appearance, it is false but its also not false

because Lord's lila are true. So when the Lord performs past time, it is not

at all an illusion. It actually happens. So the Lord actually does take

birth from Devaki. But at the same time He is aja, He is eternal, He is

never born. So there is some sort of contradiction there. The contradiction

is solved of course if we understand that the Lord has eternal form and He

is always residing in the spiritual world with that form. And simultaneously

He appears in the material world and takes His birth. So He is once eternal

and taking birth at the same time. The contradiction there is how He can be

two forms at once? So this again is the inconceivable power of the Lord that

He can so call expand Him and be in both places. We should not think the

form of Krishna is pure and that in material world is His secondary form and

expansion of another form and simply something which is actually isn't

Krishna. It is also Krishna because Krishna is absolute. So when He expands

His form in many those forms are also absolute, they are also Krishna and

none other than Krishna. We cannot say that they are not Krishna; they are

not the swaroop of Krishna. No they are the swaroop of Krishna. So we wonder

that how it is that Lord can have two swaroops when generally the God have

one swaroop. So this one swaroop is somehow able to expand itself and still

is one swaroop but in many forms. They are doing many different things. So

we know in spiritual world Krishna performs His pastimes in one particular

form in Vrindavana and He goes and performs His activities everyday in one

certain way. Getting up in the morning, going out in the field, herding the

cows, coming back in the evening etc. And He follows regular schedule like

this. So if we take birth in spiritual world, we actually know His

activities. Nevertheless He make His appearance in material world is not

false, is actually true. That is Supreme Lord Himself that is svyamroopa

Krishna. Simultaneously He will still be in spiritual world performing His

other activities. So this is very peculiar. And not only He appears in the

material world but He also grows. And the Lord is considered, even the jiva

is considered avikara or unchangeable but the Lord changes. He changes size,

He changes qualities baby size to baby qualities; baby qualities to sakhya

rasa qualities to madhurya rasa qualities over a period of some years. So

again it looks as if Lord is contradicting Himself. Nevertheless He is

always eternal and has spiritual form in the spiritual world and

simultaneously He expands Himself and undergoes change. So it is some sort

of contradiction but it is not at the same time because it is the part of

the Supreme Lord, He is able to do this and in not anyway violate His

eternal nature, His eternal form, His unchanging nature etc. So this is very

difficult for the person in the material world to understand. We are

accustomed to the logic in which either this or that; it can't be both. But

the Lord can be both. He can be changing and unchanging; He can be a born

and unborn simultaneously, without either contradicting the other. So how

that is possible? That is the achintya Shakti of the Lord, He can do this.

So therefore why the Lord wants to contradict at all, why does He want to do

that; Because of His devotees. He doesn't have to appear as a small child

but He does. Actually He appeared as Vishnu when He came out for Devaki. And

on Devaki's request and for pastimes with mother Yasoda He took a small form

as a baby. So He has the power to appear as original four handed form or

appear as baby Krishna. So He did both for the pleasure and the desire of

the devotees. And all these forms are real they are not false. We cannot say

that Krishna appeared in a four handed form and then made an illusion of a

baby form. It's not an illusion, it's real. We can say how He is Supreme

Lord when He keeps on changing His form like this. It's possible for the

Lord to do without actually changing. Difficult for us to understand but

this is the nature of the Supreme Lord. So He appeared in the womb of

Devaki. Actually it is described elsewhere that He was born in the mind of

Vasudev and was then transferred to the body of Devaki and was then born

from Devaki. However how can one give birth to the Supreme Lord even if it

is spiritual, how come that's possible of anyone to be qualified to do so?

The Supreme Lord is different from any jivas; anything so how is it possible

for Him to do this? So this of course again is the mercy of the Supreme

Lord. We know of course later on it is described that Devaki and Vasudev in

previous birth desired Supreme Lord as their son. So therefore Lord

fulfilled that promise in three births and became their son. And in the same

way Yasoda and Nanda Maharaja wanted Supreme Lord as their son in some

previous birth and therefore Lord appeared as their son. So to fulfill the

desire of their devotees Lord appeared in this form as their son. So

therefore He is willing to contradict His normal qualities in order to

please their devotees. If the devotee desires Krishna as their son then

Krishna has to be born from them otherwise not a son. So although Devaki and

Vasudev were praying that let Lord Vishnu to be our son, so therefore He

agreed to be their son. So He came out of course in Vishnu form-four hand

and kaustubha jewel and everything and then Devaki understood o yes this is

Supreme Lord and because of my desires Lord has appeared as my son. So in

another words, Lord fulfilled her desire. But then He thought that o we have

to hide you because Kamsa is going to come, he will kill You and people will

also not believe me that You are born as my son. So if You can look like an

ordinary child and I can hide You somewhere. So on the insistence of Devaki

Krishna turned into a normal looking child, small child. And of course then

Vasudev was able to take Him across the river and place the child in the

cradle in Nanda Maharaja's house. Though the Lord appeared as child, the

son of Devaki and Vasudev, He did not in any way violate His promise to

Yasoda and Nanda. They also wanted Krishna to be their son. So the argument

could be that He wasn't their son because He was born from Vasudev and

Devaki. So He wasn't real son. But the Supreme Lord also arranged that He

was the real son of Vasudev and Devaki. So simultaneously He appeared in

both places. In Gokul as the child of Yasoda, He had took birth and as a son

of Devaki. However we also know that when Vasudev when over he brought back

another child which was not a boy child, it was a girl child whom Kamsa

tried to kill, who assumed the form of Durga Devi. So who was that? How did

she get their? So Vishwanath Chakrawarti explains that actually Yasoda gave

birth to twins-boy and a girl. But she was unaware of that because at the

time of child's birth, she was unconscious. And when Vasudev came over and

exchanged the children the two Krishna merged together and became one. So

then no one really knew that actually Vasudev exchanged. They possibly

didn't think and Yasoda had Krishna as her child Yasoda knew that Krishna

was my child, even when she raised Him she knew that Krishna is my child.

But, and Yasoda of course didn't know that Vasudev has exchanged children so

she was always thinking that this is my child and it was Vasudev's child

also. So in this way Supreme Lord fulfilled the desire of both parents and

He was actually the child, the son of both of them as a Supreme Lord. Later

on when Devaki met Yasoda and Nanda in Kurukshetra, at that time, King

Krishna and Balarama met Yasoda and Nanda and they were overjoyed because

they met after such a long time. And they regard themselves as their

children even though they were grown by that time, after many many years

they were grown up. But out of affection they were treating them as their

own children. And mother Yasoda was in ecstasy and she was crying and

embracing Krishna and Balarama and she was actually in very very great

ecstasy and Devaki thought that how is it that Yasoda have more affection

for my child then I do. And of course He was Yasoda's child also. And Devaki

was puzzled. And she tried to hint to Yasoda that Krishna is my child not

your child. But Yasoda was in such bliss after seeing Krishna that she never

heard Devaki. Whatever Devaki said she never heard at all, no matter what

Devaki tried to do to hint that actually Krishna is my child. Nothing

affected mother Yasoda. So eventually Devaki gave up and she left. She

couldn't do any thing. So in another words the intensity of love of mother

Yasoda for Krishna was stronger than Devaki's love even though Krishna was

the son of both; which shows the superiority of the happiness and love of

Vraja at that point. So anyway so Krishna fulfilled the desire of both of

them and in this way both of them had Him as their child. Of course Yasoda

is the eternal mother of Krishna and Nanda is the eternal father so there is

no question of them being sadhana siddhas though it seems to be described

like that by Sukadev Goswami when he says that in their previous life time

they wanted the Lord as their son and therefore they prayed to the Lord and

they meditated and then finally they got Lord as their son. That was also

very puzzling to Parikshit Maharaja because he was glorifying Yasoda and

Nanda and then he asked how it is possible and then Sukdeva said o well in

their previous life time they meditated and prayed and finally they got the

boon that God will become their son. And then he was a little bit puzzled by

that. He wasn't very satisfied with that explanation. And of course it

contradicts the idea that Nanda and Yasoda are the eternal parents of

Krishna. So how it could be possible that they are sadhana siddhas? So the

explanation is actually the personalities who appeared and did the sadhanas

and meditations were only the expansions or part portions of Yasoda and

Nanda. And then they merged into the form of nitya siddha when Krishna

appeared and when Nanda and Yasoda appeared in this material world. Then

they merged into those form and had Krishna as their son. So therefore there

is no contradiction with eternal parenthood of Nanda and Yasoda.

Nevertheless even Nanda and Yasoda they are in the bliss in the spiritual

world with the Supreme Lord. That form as a child is the ideal form to

express their vatsalya rasa rather than the big form or bigger form when

Krishna is 18 years old and is there in the eternal form in Vraj in the

spiritual world. The form of Krishna as child is ideal for their vatsalya

rasa. Now of course in spiritual world they still see Krishna in that form.

Despite of the fact that He is 18 years old, they still treat Him as a baby.

But when He has this form which He manifests within the material world then

the expression of their vatsalya rasa become very very intense. So sometimes

some of the acharyas say that the appearance of the Lord in the material

world is a cause for more intense rasa then even in the spiritual world.

Because the forms are more attractive. Krishna has the form of a baby and

therefore the vatsalya rasa is expressed in intense degree. And even the

sakhya rasa, when Krishna is 5 years old can be manifested here in ideal

form because Krishna is seen here as 5 years old also. So therefore the

lilas of Krishna when He appears within the material world are considered to

be superior then the forms in the spiritual world. Now we can say that how

is it that the material form in the material world is superior to the

spiritual form? Of course in one sense no it's like all form of God is God

so how can Krishna be superior to Vishnu or whatever they say. But according

to rasa, there is different intensities of rasas. So when Krishna appears in

the material world and displays all His wonderful activities, there is the

great intensity of rasa which makes it very very attractive. So some of the

acharyas and devotees relish the pastimes of Krishna as He appeared in this

material world more than His pastimes in the spiritual world. So in this way

again we see the inconceivable nature of the Lord. How even though Lord

appears in the material world, He is able to make His pastimes even more

attractive then the spiritual world. This is the extraordinary power of the

Supreme Lord. In other words this is not an inferior form of the Lord; this

is not an expansion of His swaroop. We can say it is the combination of His

swaroop. He is able to combine everything in more intense way when He appear

in this material world. So in this way Supreme Lord appears and push in

everything that this is inferior to His form in Vaikuntha or spiritual

world, that it is secondary form. It is non-different from His spiritual

form and in fact according to some acharyas it is even better and none of

the associates are in any way inferior to the associates in the spiritual

world. Nanda and Yasoda we cannot think that they are the expansions or

anything. They are also fully qualified to have the Lord who is also the

Lord Himself. They qualify to have the Lord as in direct relationship as

their son. So they are in no way inferior to the spiritual form in the

spiritual world. So Devaki is described as devrupinya. Devarupi, one who is

a spiritual form, not a material form. So she gives birth, her birth is not

a material birth. It is all arrangement of the Supreme Lord for performance

of His past times. So Krishna does take birth in one sense but He doesn't

take birth in the normal way. When we think of material birth, there is no

material element in the body of Devaki. Krishna hasn't got a material body

so that's not a material birth in that way. But it is the birth in the sense

that Krishna becomes the son of Devaki and He also becomes the son of

Yasoda. So in that sense He takes birth. But we shouldn't think that these

forms are temporary. Because He takes birth this form is temporary and it

grows etc. We can say that simultaneously in other Universes Krishna is also

in the same form, taking birth. So, even His birth is eternal. It's going on

at somewhere in some universes, any moment, any time. So His birth is

eternal, His baby form is eternal, all are eternal. So in this way the

Supreme Lord is able to satisfy His devotees in His pastimes. By appearing

in this world, within the material world, maintaining spiritual

consciousness along with the spiritual bliss for He satisfies His devotees

and He satisfies Himself.

 

Questions?

 

Ques:

Being spiritual not material, not that both Vishnu tattva

Devarupi, in other words divya, She is also divya. She is not actchit, not

material body.

 

Ques: Difference between Roopa and Swaroopa:

By swaroopa we mean the essential nature and the essential identity of the

particular person or whatever. Roopa means particularly the form. When we

talk about swaroopa of Krishna, we don't particularly talk about the four

hand form. Of course it involves the four hand. The swaroopa Vishnu is four

handed form, that's ok. We also say His roopa is four handed form,

particular color, that's also His roopa. When we say swaroopa, it includes

the essential nature. So it also involves having four hands, Krishna holding

a flute whatever. It means His essential identity.

 

 

Devaki is in Mathura. There is another dhama Mathura. Mathura, Vraja, they

are all separate. So their rasa is separate. It's the mixture of vatsalya

rasa with aishwarya rasa together and Yasoda is simply vatsalya rasa with no

aishwarya

 

 

So with the power of Supreme Lord they can be in both the places at a time.

So even if they are not Supreme Lord.

 

 

She realized that when they met at Kurukshetra.

 

 

Ya it shows that the love at Dwarka and Mathura is less then the love in

Vraja and that was witnessed by Uddhava. When actually Krishna sent Uddhava

from Mathura to Vraj to testify the people of Mathura that actually the

love of Vrajwasi is greater than our love. That was his purpose by sending

him there. Because everyone will believe Uddhava because he was trusted by

everybody and he was friend of Krishna.

 

 

Well His eternal form in the spiritual world and His eternal form in the

material world in Vraja pastimes, He is cowherd. So therefore He has

occupation. In Dwarka He doesn't do that because He is a Kshatriya and so

therefore He fights. When He is son of Yasoda and Nanda, they are gopas,

gopa gamily. So therefore He takes up the occupation of His father. That's

all.

 

 

Well He kept Ugrasen as the King. Because He was still alive, He can't throw

him out. That's what Kamsa does.

 

 

Generally it appears that He appears on earth planet and not on swargloka or

other planets.

 

 

O whoever is qualified. Of course some are nitya siddhas so they are not

coming from the material world. Some of them are sadhana siddhas so they are

coming from the previous birth, what they had been the devotees of the Lord

and they qualified and due to some qualification they are born within gopa

family. So such is the case of the sages of Dandkraniya. They took birth as

gopis. And the Upanishads personified, the Vedas, Upanishads they got born

as gopis also. So they are sadhana siddhas, jivas who are sadhana siddhas.

And they got born in Vrindavan and with association with nityasiddha gopis,

they also become purified at that time. And similarly there are deva forms.

So when the Supreme Lord said that I will appear in this material world then

the devas also appeared in the families of the yadus. So some of the devas

also took birth in the yadu dynasty in Mathura and Dwarka to assist to Lord.

So there are also sadhana siddhas. At the same time there are nitya siddhas

as well. People like pandavas are nitya siddhas, they are not sadhana

siddhas. And so is the combination. So who ever is qualified at time they

get to join the pastimes of the Lord like devatas.

 

 

Well we don't call them nitya siddhas because nitya siddhas technically

means they never were doing sadhana. So they are, we can say, padamuktas.

People who bound up and became perfect. In the spiritual world there is no

distinction once you are there. We don't get the distinction like that

there. From our point of view we can make distinctions like sadhana siddhas

ort whatever and nityasiddhas. So sadhana siddhas means they do sadhana and

then they get the perfection and then they get perfect.

 

-- s bhag 10th canto lecture by HH Bhanu Swami