Guest guest Posted March 19, 1999 Report Share Posted March 19, 1999 Dear Prabhu pamho agtsp could you kindly give some references for the instructions taught below? .... maybe if someone has the folio program.. perhaps it may be beneficial to study our sampradaya's mangalaacarana in sequence to shed some light on this. 1) vande 'ham sri guroh sri yuta pada kamalam sri gurun vaishnavams ca 2) sri rupam saagrajaatam saha-gana raghunaathaanvitaams tam sa jivam 3) saadvaitam saavadhutam parijana sahitam krsna caitanya devam 4) sri radha krsna paadaan saha gana lalita sri visaakhaan vitams ca any comments? thank you your servant dina Avadhut.GRS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se >> First to Srila Prabhupada. Second: if altar doors/curtains are closed then to Sannyasis starting from senior most among the ones present. then to Temple President and other Senior Vaisnavas starting from senior most among them and working downwards then to rest of the vaisnavas individually or a common one. if altar doors/curtains are open then obeisances to the vaisnavas in mind and then physical dandavat obeisances to the deities. > 2.Are obeisances to be offered when the altar-curtains are closed? I was taught this in my new-bhakta-program: Whenever we enter the temple room, we may or may not be able to see the Deities (due to doors/curtains being open or closed), but the Deities are there and They can see us. So we MUST pay obeisances to Them too. In case of the altar being closed, opinions may differ as to pay obeisances to the Deities first or to the assembeled vaisnavas first. In any case both have to be done. But obeisances to Srila Prabhuapda in case of altar being closed or open remains always first. ---- Before leaving temple room we generally pay obeisances to all the Deities first and finally to Srila Prabhupada. Hope things were in order here. yfs Avadhut das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 PAMHO In India the common practice is that women do NOT do full prostration. However I have seen iconographic evidence that suggests both ways. There is a suggestion that women should not touch their breasts to the ground for some reasons which I forget right now. It may have something to do with the fact that the earth is the consort of the Lord. Anyway I am not suggesting that someone do or not do it based upon anything that I have mentioned. My main point is that it IS NOT an ISKCON invention or recent development. It is definitely ingrained in people in India that the proper method for women to pay obeisances is pancanga pranam and not full sastanga pranam which is performed only by men. ys Gaura Keshava das PS If I come across the sastric story about this I'll post it. Urmilaji if you still want some info on tilaka let me know. _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2002 Report Share Posted March 31, 2002 On 24 Mar 2002, Deena Bandhu wrote: > Earth) discusses this point. She is also a woman and she says that the womb and > breasts of women are sacred being the places where children are born and > nourished. In the same way that we never throw any shastra or sacred article on > the dirt, these sacred places should also not touch the dirt. She, therefore, > says that women should pay 5 point obeisances, that is the two arms, two legs, > and head. > > So here is the rule and it was made by a woman. > > If he sends me the exact quote, I will send it on. > > In service of Sri Sri Krishna Balaram, > Deena Bandhu dasa > > PS. I wonder if these means that no part of a man's body is sacred. Your girls > are lucky you got three! ;-) Very nice. But what to do with the following: > > > I know of a female devotee who says that Prabhupada personally told her to > > > offer full dandavats. I know her personally and quite well. She attests that she was offering obeisances and SP stopped her and instructed her to offer full dandavats, which she did. Your servant, Urmila devi dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2002 Report Share Posted April 1, 2002 I have seen iconographic evidence in India that clearly shows both male and female devotees paying full astanga (dandavat) pranams. I can clearly remember seeing this depicted at Melkote, Sri Rangam and Tirupati. I have also personally seen women devotees performing rolling dandavat pranams in Tirupati around the sanctum of Lord Venkatesvara. So it seems that this rule is not universally followed (at least by the Sri Vaisnavas, maybe because their Sampradaya gives some more freedoms to their ladies in general since their Adiguru is Laksmiji Herself). As for Vaisnavis who have been personally instructed to perform obeisances in this way I can only say that certainly the Guru (in this case Srila Prabhupada) (or Husband, Father or Elder) who has given this instruction may be followed by that lady as she has faith in his interpreting the spirit (if not the exact wording) of the sastra. Certainly this sastric prohibition is a minor rule. Also we have to remember that this rule may not appear in the sastras accepted by a particular sect. Or it maybe considered a non-compulsory rule. Despite all this it is rare to see women in India today perform full astanga (dandavat) pranam. I can only think of the example of Tirupati and some Gaudiya widows that I have seen do this. I cannot recall ever seeing women of other sampradayas or sects doing this. Then again we also have to remember that it is quite rare to see even men perform this type of pranam these days. ys Gaura Keshava das _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2002 Report Share Posted May 18, 2002 ·I have seen iconographic evidence in India that clearly shows both ·male and female devotees paying full astanga (dandavat) pranams. I ·can clearly remember seeing this depicted at Melkote, Sri Rangam and ·Tirupati. I have also personally seen women devotees performing ·rolling dandavat pranams in Tirupati around the sanctum of Lord ·Venkatesvara. So it seems that this rule is not universally followed ·(at least by the Sri Vaisnavas, maybe because their Sampradaya gives ·some more freedoms to their ladies in general since their Adiguru is ·Laksmiji Herself). Living in South India, I would like to mention that Shri Vaishnav women DO NOT pay astanga pranams. There may be such pictures depicted on stone but living women do not offer such pranams. They have their own way of offering pranams which is distinct from the way other women do, but it is definitely not astanga. As for the rolling pranams I really wonder how old this tradition is. This is not seen in other temples of South India. Definitely not in Sri Rangam or Kanchipuram where most number of brahmins reside. Srimat Lakshmidevi being the adiguru does not give the shri vaishnav women any extra freedom. They follow all the regular rules that brahmin women follow. ys Skdas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2002 Report Share Posted May 18, 2002 PAMHO AGTSP > Living in South India, I would like to mention that > Shri Vaishnav women DO > NOT pay astanga pranams. Yes, I agree with you. However I did mention the iconographic evidence which indicates the opposite WAS true at some point in time. There is also iconographic evidence for the wearing of a type of brahmanical thread by women. This is not to say that it is done today. My point here is that what is done today does not neccessarily follow all the traditions of yester year. >There may be such pictures > depicted on stone but > living women do not offer such pranams. Yes, and many modern women don't wear the 9 yard saris also, however this is not a rational that proves it was never done. > As for the rolling pranams I really wonder how old > this tradition is. This > is not seen in other temples of South India. > Definitely not in Sri Rangam or > Kanchipuram where most number of brahmins reside. Yes, you ,ay be right about the rolling danadavat pranam system. If you have any more information about it's origin and development I would be most interested. > > Srimat Lakshmidevi being the adiguru does not give > the shri vaishnav women > any extra freedom. They follow all the regular rules > that brahmin women > follow. This is not actually correct. For example, at least in the Tengalai Sri Vaisnava tradition widow tonsure is forbidden. This is a major departure from other brahmanical traditions. I do admit that the fact that Laksmidevi is considered a prominant member of the parampara may not have anything to do with this. However the mere fact that She is included in the parampara list is in iteself significant as NO other parampara list any females. ys Gaura Keshava das LAUNCH - Your Music Experience http://launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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