Siva, devas, GOD

[Guest guest]

The words "suras" and "devas" can be translated as "gods" but usually these

terms are not used in the sense of "GOD" ( the one supreme living being ).

The proof in shastra is that the word "sura" is used for anyone who is a

devotee. Even gandharvas, angels and human beings are mentioned as suras or

devas in the Puranas. That does not mean that human beings and angels are

GOD.

 

I suggest to debate with Shivites on the basis of the Bhagavad-gita

because the Gita is also accepted by Shankaracarya. Krishna is mentioned as

the supreme in the Gita, not Lord Shiva. Once you make them either accept or

reject the auhority of the Gita, you have them. The Gita does not belong to

one particular group but is respected by all. If they reject the Gita they

cannot be considered followers of the Vedas, then there is also no use in

arguing on the basis of shastra. If they accept the Gita , they have to

accept that Krishna is God and not the devas. The difficulty with

Shaivaites is that they are usually mayavadis. If we follow their logic,

then ultimately everyone is God in one sense. Their mistake is in the

terminology, that they mix up "a god" or limited "controller" with GOD.

 

That in itself is unacceptable, unless they take away from the definition

of God the attributes of being almighty, all knowing etc. Therefore, simply

by mentioning terms as deva, ishvara etc. as proof of who is God, nothing

is gained. " You may think that you are god at your home " Srila Prabhupada

said " on a lecture tape I heard recently "but when you go to work, then

your boss becomes God ! "

 

We have to consider, which qualities are attributed to the different

ishvaras and devas in the context in which they are mentioned in the

scriptures. Krishna`s attribute is that He is the cause of all causes,

he is the origin of everything and that He is the paramesvara, the

paramatma, the parambrahman etc. He is the one supreme all-knowing ishvara.

 

The term ishavara or bhagavan meaning God is usually reserved for Vishnu and

Krishna but Shiva and Brahma are also sometimes mentioned as bhagavan or

ishvara. That makes it so difficult. Because they are controllers of this

material universe. We do not deny that. But Krishna is mentioned as the

supreme controller of all the worlds. Being Narayana, Krishna was there

before Shiva existed. According to the Upanisads : Narayana paro`vyaktat...

narayanad ekadasa rudra...etc It is "In the beginning there was only

Narayana, no Indra and no Shiva...."Narayana manifested Lord Shiva" The

Upanisads are also accepted by the Shaivaites and by Shankaracarya.

 

In the Gita Krishna differentiates between Himself and the devas

( yanti deva vrata devan ....yad yajino `pi yanti mam ) Those who worship

the devas instead of Him are mentioned as less intelligent ( tad bhavati

alpa medhasa ) And that the worshippers of the devas offer their worship

with a wrong understanding. How then can "deva" mean the same as "God" ?

The word "demigod" is the suitable translation for "deva" because

most devas are mentioned as being mortal ( abrahma buvanalloka )

Krishna establishes Himself in the Gita as the origin of everything

( aham sarvasya prabhavo ). Such a statement is not made once in the Gita

in reference to Lord Shiva. Krishna, of course mentions "Among the Rudras

I am Lord Shiva ". But he goes on to say that among aquatics He is the

shark and among trees He is the Banyan tree. We know that the shark or the

Banyan tree is not GOD.

If the the term "deva" would be equivalent with "God", then why does Arjuna

say in the Gita "na hi te bhagavan vyaktim vidur deva na danavah ?

"Neither the -devas- nor danavas, o Lord ( Bhagavan ) can understand Your

personality." If devas here would mean "God" they would be omniscient

and understand Krishna.

 

The God ( om namo bhagavate vasudevaya ) referred to in the Srimad

Bhagavatam is the actual supreme absolute truth established as the

all-knowing ( abhijnah svarat) who even enlightened Brahma before he created

the cosmic structure. Therefore the Bhagavatam is considered to be most

authoritative and cannot be compared with scriptures teaching rituals and

worship of various devatas. In translations, the meaning of a word can only

be properly translated by acknowleding the proper context or else it

loses its meaning. For all this, the Bhagavad gita provides the proper

foundation.