Guest guest Posted May 17, 2002 Report Share Posted May 17, 2002 I don't know what happened but somehow this text didn't get sent to Katha but only to all the other recievers. Any redundancy is regreted. Shyama > > On 9 May 2002, Rasananda das wrote: > > > > > Dear Maharaj, > > > > > > Dandavat-pranams. Srila Prabhupada jayatah. > > > > > > > It may be clearly said that the understanding of a woman is always > > > > inferior to the understanding of a man. - SB 6.17.34-35 ppt > > > > > > I am not one to provoke controversy or doubt in the least any > > > statement of Prabhupada's but in the interest of possibly mitigating > > > some of the unfairness that has for long womens lot to be the object > > > of, I would like to say that I feel that the above statement is one a > > > general nature (among maybe a few other similar ones of his). Lord > > > Buddha (having no reason to say something on this topic contrary to > > > the Vedas that I can perceive), said 'some women are better than some > > > men'. > > PAMHO.ALGTSP. > > > Srila Prabhupada once told Jadurani mataji that "If you keep thinking that > you are a woman, where is the question of making spiritual advancement?" > > So we are here to forget that we are the bodies and we associate with > devotees to help us forget that we are these bodies. > > It will be very encouraging to all if everyone was reminded of their > spiritual potential rather than the plus and minuses of their bodies. > > Your humble servant, > Prema Padmini dd It is not Politically Correct to say anything on this subject or one will be hounded by the PC police. > It will be very encouraging to all if everyone was reminded of their > spiritual potential rather than the plus and minuses of their bodies. The sastras are meant to enlighten us and bring us back to Godhead. The sastras, and the acaryas and sadhus who follow the sastras are not concerned with being Politically Correct. As Krsna explains in BG 13.8-12 that one is considered wise when one understands the intrinsic evil nature of the body that is subject to birth, death, old age and disease. This is applicable to all bodies. It is meant as an incentive to escape from the bodily prison and associated hellish material life. Some bodies are more problematic than others--hence even more incentive to leave that bodily cage--not by pretending we don't have one but by understanding the real situation and doing something about it as per sastric directions. Guest (5): Do the same rules apply to women as to men? Prabhupada: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that in the society women, working class, and the mercantile class, they are, according to Vedic scripture, they are less intelligent, women, working class and mercantile men. Just like merchant..., they are after money, that's all. And sudra, they want, after job. And women means they are after fulfilling their material desires. They have no other idea, that there is Brahman, one should know Brahman... They do not care to know. Therefore they are called sudras, stri, sudra, vaisya. Yes. Vaisya. So Krsna says, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh papa-yonayah striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te 'pi yanti param gatim So it is not blocked for anyone. Anyone can get Krsna consciousness. Anyone can go back to home, back to Godhead, provided you follow the regulative principle. Then it is possible for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's woman, whether he's working class, whether he's a sudra or a brahmana. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that "Even they can go. And what to speak of the brahmanas?" Kim punar brahmanah punya bhakta rajarsayah... [bg. 9.33]. If the brahmanas, they cultivate spiritual knowledge, it becomes very easy for them. Even they can go, sudras, stri, vaisya. These are all the statement. Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples February 12, 1975, Mexico So having a female body is problematic for the reason stated above. The form of the female body determines its function--it is made to create other material forms. To fulfill this function those souls who find themselves imprisoned in a female body are constantly meditating on all the material necessities required to have babies and raise them--the nesting instinct--house, money, food, clothes, material security, etc, etc. It requires a lot of material resources to successfully raise a family--i.e., create more material bodies that will reach adulthood and replicate themselves. (To avoid such responsibility there is abortion and contraception with major karmic reactions of their own. Even if a woman doesn't have children the nature of focusing on matter doesn't change. A glass, even if not used for drinking, does not become a hammer.) Considering how much one must become absorbed in material affairs it is not surprising that those in female bodies are at a disadvantage. But as Srila Prabhupada points out if they are fortunate enough to become Krsna conscious they can go back home back to Godhead. What is the process? "By following the regulative principle." A woman by performance of her prescribed duty as described in SB 7.11.25-29 (not some other's duty) as a sacrifice to Lord Visnu will get the exact same result that Arjuna did by performance of his prescribed duty as a Kshatriya. "Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work. Work done as a sacrifice for Visnu has to be performed, otherwise work causes bondage in this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain free from bondage." BG 3.8-9 Some may suggest that you can do what ever you want to do as a service to Lord Krsna but that is not the opinion of the Lord. He says that yajna is born from prescribed duties not whim: "All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by performance of yajna [sacrifice], and yajna is born of prescribed duties. Regulated activities are prescribed in the Vedas, and the Vedas are directly manifested from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Consequently the all-pervading Transcendence is eternally situated in acts of sacrifice." BG 3.14-15 Here Lord Krsna says that the prescribed duties that a woman performs as a sacrifice is His abode and not different from Him. "Kings such as Janaka attained perfection solely by performance of prescribed duties. Therefore, just for the sake of educating the people in general, you should perform your work." BG 3.20 Here the Lord gives the example of previous persons who solely by performance of their prescribed duty went back to Godhead. He also points out the importance of showing others the proper example. Thus, even a fully liberated soul encased in a female form would show other souls in female forms the proper example by continuing to do the prescribed duties associated with female forms. Krsna emphasizes the importance of performing prescribed duties in the next three verses: "Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues. O son of Prtha, there is no work prescribed for Me within all the three planetary systems. Nor am I in want of anything, nor have I a need to obtain anything-and yet I am engaged in prescribed duties. For if I ever failed to engage in carefully performing prescribed duties, O Partha, certainly all men would follow My path." BG 3.21-23 Here the Lord emphasizes that He considers the performance of prescribed duty so important that even though He is above prescribed duties He still performs them just for the sake of setting the example for others lest they go to ruination by following His example. So if this is true for the Lord Who is actually above all the rules how much more true is it for us who must actually follow our prescribed duties or even those who are liberated---we must all perform our prescribed duties to please Lord Krsna and to set an example for the benefit of others. Now it may be argued that in the beginning Srila Prabhupada engaged the ladies in so many ways so we should continue in that way. But just consider the following verse: "Bewildered by the modes of material nature, the ignorant fully engage themselves in material activities and become attached. But the wise should not unsettle them, although these duties are inferior due to the performers' lack of knowledge." BG 3.29 Srila Prabhupada came to America a cultural wasteland of mlecchas and yavanas. He engaged the hippy boys and girls according to their own low standards so as to not disturb them. But he gradually began to introduce Vedic cultural values with the aim of raising the standards. It is our duty to continue to progress by adhering more closely to Vedic dharma, not reverting to hippy consciousness as is the current trend that is enforced by the PC police. Prabhupada: They must be all ideal acarya-like. In the beginning we have done for working. Now we should be very cautious. Anyone who is deviating, he can be replaced. (GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada--May 28, 1977, Vrindavana) Here Srila Prabhupada refers to the fact that in the beginning he had to do so many things to start ISKCON but now (1977) the standards have to be raised. In this instance he is referring explicitly to the GBC but it applies to the whole society as well because the society will follow its leaders. But instead of installing ideal acarya-like people as GBCs they are now putting in people who have been blooped for over a decade, who were junkies, and who even rejected Srila Prabhupada as Guru and were following mayavadi gurus. Prabhupada wanted Acarya-like people as GBC, people whose life example we should follow. Who is prepared to follow that example (of blooping, etc)? "Therefore, O Arjuna, surrendering all your works unto Me, with full knowledge of Me, without desires for profit, with no claims to proprietorship, and free from lethargy, fight. Those persons who execute their duties according to My injunctions and who follow this teaching faithfully, without envy, become free from the bondage of fruitive actions." BG 3.30-31 Here Krsna spells it out to Arjuna and the rest of us as well, men and women alike. We must surrender all of our work to Lord Krsna if we want to satisfy Him. But it is important to note that by work He strictly means prescribed duty. Now it may be argued by some that in BG 3.5 it says: "Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities he has acquired from the modes of material nature; therefore no one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment." Thus they contend that Lord Krsna suggests that our duty is whatever we are inclined to do, and in fact which we are helpless forced to do. This is not so. First of all this verse has more to do with our material flaws rather than what our work should be for in the next verse Lord Krsna says: "One who restrains the senses of action but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender." BG 3.6 Hence the previous verse BG 3.5 is in regards to our desire for sense gratification not our prescribed duties. It is also seen that many of the things that we are impelled to do are sinful. "Arjuna said: O descendant of Vrsni, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force? The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring sinful enemy of this world." BG 3.36-37 Hence the idea that a woman (or man) should act according to their propensities and offer that to Lord Krsna is not really supported by sastra. Many people have sinful propensities to lie, steal, cheat, etc. These cannot be offered as a sacrifice to Lord Visnu. One cannot be a butcher, coke dealer, pimp, child pornographer, etc., for Krsna. Only work that is our prescribed duty can be offered as a sacrifice to the Lord. When Arjuna, who was a Ksatriya, wanted to flee the battlefield and act like a brahmana Lord Krsna rebuked him. Now one may think that acting like a Brahman is honorable and not anywhere near as bad as being a butcher or pimp still Krsna chided Arjuna thusly: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the value of life. They lead not to higher planets but to infamy. O son of Prtha, do not yield to this degrading impotence. It does not become you. Give up such petty weakness of heart and arise, O chastiser of the enemy." BG 2.2-3 So we must conclude that in order to please Lord Krsna through our work, like Arjuna did, we must only perform our prescribed duty and offer that as a sacrifice to Lord Krsna. To do something other than our prescribed duty will not be pleasing to the Lord: "It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous." BG 3.35 And: "It is better to engage in one's own occupation, even though one may perform it imperfectly, than to accept another's occupation and perform it perfectly. Duties prescribed according to one's nature are never affected by sinful reactions." BG 18.47 Now it may be claimed by some that the following two verses indicate that we should just follow our natures: "If you do not act according to My direction and do not fight, then you will be falsely directed. By your nature, you will have to be engaged in warfare. Under illusion you are now declining to act according to My direction. But, compelled by the work born of your own nature, you will act all the same, O son of Kunti." BG 18.59-60 Again, it may be our nature to be a criminal, just because it is in our nature doesn't mean it should be acted on. To do so indicates we are driven by lust and anger (BG 3.37). We can only engage in those activities that are simultaneously in accord with our natures and sanctioned by sastra as our prescribed duty. It is only such prescribed duties born of our own nature that can be offered in sacrifice to Lord Krsna and no other acts. If a woman performs her prescribed duty in the same way Arjuna performed his then the result is guaranteed by the Lord: "Therefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Krsna and at the same time carry out your prescribed duty of fighting. With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed on Me, you will attain Me without doubt." BG 8.7 So what exactly are the prescribed duties of those souls confined to a female form? What are the prescribed duties for women that if they are performed for the pleasure of the Lord will grant them freedom from birth and death. Narada Rsi in Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.25-29 explains these duties thusly: "To render service to the husband, to be always favorably disposed toward the husband, to be equally well disposed toward the husband's relatives and friends, and to follow the vows of the husband-these are the four principles to be followed by women described as chaste. A chaste woman must dress nicely and decorate herself with golden ornaments for the pleasure of her husband. Always wearing clean and attractive garments, she should sweep and clean the household with water and other liquids so that the entire house is always pure and clean. She should collect the household paraphernalia and keep the house always aromatic with incense and flowers and must be ready to execute the desires of her husband. Being modest and truthful, controlling her senses, and speaking in sweet words, a chaste woman should engage in the service of her husband with love, according to time and circumstances." > It will be very encouraging to all if everyone was reminded of their > spiritual potential rather than the plus and minuses of their bodies. Some people may misuse Vedic teachings for their own purposes, this has been going on since time immemorial (Lord Buddha came because people were misusing the Vedas) but that should not provoke us to in anyway shy away from the direct statements of the sastras and acaryas. To do so will simply put us in the position of being envious of Lord Krsna the sastras and the acaryas (see BG 3.31-32 and purport) like those who have been so bold as to suggest that Srila Prabhupada's books are sexist and should be changed. See http://www.vnn.org/world/WD9905/WD03-3779.html I have hardly done this topic justice but find that my time has run out. I may develop this topic more at another time. I beg to remain… Yours in the service of my eternal master Srila Prabhupada Shyamasundara Dasa www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com PS I am adding the text of someone who read my text and added some comments of his own. > Dear Syamasundara Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories > to Srila Prabhupada. > > I liked what you wrote. It was scholarly and gentlemanly. > > I don't know who, specifically, you are writing to; I hope they consider it > fully. > > > Srila Prabhupada once told Jadurani mataji that "If you keep thinking that > > you are a woman, where is the question of making spiritual advancement?" > > > > So we are here to forget that we are the bodies and we associate with > > devotees to help us forget that we are these bodies. > > > > It will be very encouraging to all if everyone was reminded of their > > spiritual potential rather than the plus and minuses of their bodies. > > It is amazing that by now it is still not obvious that it is not so easy to > just forget about your body and act like a spirit soul. That's the platform > of liberation. Although it is true that anyone who performs bhakti is > immediately situated above the modes, the problem we have is staying > situated in bhakti. Liberation, what to speak of Bhakti, is not something > easily had. If it was, how come most people who take up the path of bhakti > either go away after some time or compromise regulative principles? A > person fixed on the path of bhakti does not do either of these things. > > Yes, we are spirit souls, but we are spirit souls who are still to one > degree or another bound in this material world. Those arguing for women's > rights accept the principle of oneness but deny any differences that might > make a difference in how they can practice bhakti. They think that by > refusing to accept the fact that they are still materially conditioned that > they will somehow or other transcend the material energy. They forget that > the material energy, Mayadevi, is also female, and therefore is not obliged > to deal with them in a gentlemanly way. Actually, the passage quoted by the > person you are corresponding with is Mayavada philosophy, because it denies > the very real differences that we have to deal with in our conditioned > states. > > ################### > These Mayavadi philosophers, they think, "Now I have become equal to Krsna. > I am also Krsna." That is rascaldom. Krsna, God, is never equal to anyone. > Asamaurdhva. Asama means "not equal," and urdha, "always the top." > Asamaurdhva. That is described in the Bhagavad... So we should remain > tad-adhina, always under Krsna. That is our perfection. If we remain just > like in Western countries-they rebel. If a woman is advised to remain under > the control of the husband, that is insult to them. They cannot tolerate it. > But actually we see in India that a wife who remains under the guidance of > the husband, she is happy. That's a practical fact. That is a practical > fact. And therefore in the Manu-samhita it is advised, na striyam svatantram > arhati. Women should be always protected. > (Lecture, SB 3.28.18 Nairobi, Oct. 27, 1975) > #################### Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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