Divinity and Humanity

[Guest guest]

WHAT TO SAY, HOW TO FEEL

 

A talk by Giriraj Swami

Visalia, California

28 October 2001

 

 

Devotees have asked me to speak about the terrorist attacks on September

11--how to reply to people's questions and how to respond to their

distress.

 

But before I address the issue directly, I would like to say that when we

preach, as far as possible, we should speak according to our realization.

Srila Prabhupada said that if someone speaks according to his or her

realization, the message will touch the hearts of the audience, even if what

one says is simple. If our realization is that chanting Hare Krishna makes

us happy, then we can just say, "If you chant Hare Krishna, you'll feel

happier." If taking prasadam in the association of devotees makes us feel

good, then we just repeat the fact. At the same time, however, we do have to

consider the audience. We may have many things in our heart, but not

everything is appropriate for everyone. So we have to be sensitive to the

person or people we're speaking to.

 

Regarding the terrorist attacks, people's feelings right now are such that

we cannot just say that the people in the World Trade Center simply suffered

their karma. At the same time, the laws of karma do explain many phenomena

in the world better than any other explanation. So I thought we could begin

by discussing the laws of karma.

 

Last year when His Holiness Radhanath Swami came to stay with me in Santa

Barbara he raised a similar question: what do we tell people who ask about

the Holocaust? He said he had given many talks in universities where

students had asked, "What about the slaughter of so many millions of Jews?"

And Radhanath Swami told me that he couldn't just say, "Well, it was their

karma." The audience just wouldn't accept that six million people, including

children and rabbis, were just suffering the results of their karma. So we

discussed for many hours, and many of the ideas we discussed in relation to

the Holocaust also apply to the attack on the World Trade Center.

 

In general, the scriptures deal with the material world in absolute terms.

But nothing in the material world is really absolute. For example, we talk

about the three modes of nature, but Srila Prabhupada himself said that you

never find any one of the three modes in a pure state in the material world.

They are always combined with other modes, giving rise to almost infinite

varieties of expression. But the scriptures give the idealized description

of pure ignorance, pure passion, and pure goodness so that we can get a

sense of how to recognize them and how they operate in the world. Yet in

reality the modes are always mixed. Similarly, in discussing the laws of

karma, it is my conviction that we cannot simply say that at any given

moment a person is getting exactly what he or she deserves. Even the

Bhagavad-gita confirms that the laws of action and reaction are subtle and

complex--and difficult to understand.

 

We read the story of King Nrga in the Krsna book (SB 10.64). He was a very

pious and generous king, and he gave a cow in charity to a brahmana. Somehow

the cow wandered back into the King's herd, and the King inadvertently gave

the same cow to another brahmana. As the cow was being taken away by the

second brahmana, the first brahmana came and claimed it, and the two began

to argue. Finally they came before the King and accused him of taking back

the cow he had already given in charity. The King offered each brahmana

100,000 cows in place of the disputed one, but each brahmana insisted that

the cow that had been given to him was his and could not be taken back under

any circumstance. Thus the brahmanas refused the King's offer and left in

anger, thinking that the King had given property in charity to a brahmana

and taken it back, which is considered a great sin. At the time of his

death, King Nrga was given the choice either to enjoy his pious reactions

first or to suffer his sinful reactions first. He thought, "First let me get

the sinful reactions out of the way, and then I'll enjoy the pious results."

So he chose to suffer his sinful reactions first. And immediately he was

turned into a lizard.

 

Now if we were to say that the King got what he deserved, that he became a

lizard because he cheated a brahmana, it's not really the whole story. Yes,

he got what he deserved, but he also deserved other things. He also deserved

rewards for all the good he had done, and those rewards were awaiting him.

So when we see someone either enjoying or suffering, we may conclude that

the suffering they're getting is what they deserve, or the enjoyment they're

getting is what they deserve, but there may be more to it. Thus, even if we

admit that an innocent victim has suffered because of an evil demon, the

victim will be compensated in the next life, and the culprit will be

punished. King Nrga was ultimately delivered from his miserable lizard body

by the grace of the Lord, because while performing pious activities, he also

thought of Lord Krishna.

 

Advaita Candra Prabhu brought up the question, "Why do bad things happen to

good people?" And he mentioned a book, a bestseller called "When Bad Things

Happen to Good People," written by a rabbi. This question is very old. When

I was in high school my favorite teacher was my English teacher, and she was

an extraordinary lady. Practically at the beginning of the first class she

announced that she was a theist. She said that some people say that one

should not bring one's beliefs into the classroom, but she said everyone,

even the atheist, brings beliefs into the classroom. So she felt that if she

was straightforward about her beliefs and notified the students, there was

no harm.

 

One of the books we studied was a play by Archibald MacLeish based on the

story of Job from the Bible. Job was "blameless and upright, one who feared

God and turned away from evil," but Job was tested. First he lost his vast

property and devoted children. Still, Job did not turn from righteousness or

blame the Lord. Then Job's body was afflicted with untold suffering, inside

and outside, from head to foot. Finally, even faithful Job questioned the

ways of the Lord and challenged: "Why are You doing this to me?" Job is the

epitome of the good person being tested by God by being forced to suffer for

reasons he cannot comprehend. So in the play Archibald MacLeish repeated one

couplet that summarized the whole issue: "If God is God, then He is not

good./ If God is good, then He is not God." Here God means the all-powerful,

the Almighty. If God is all-powerful, then He is not good, because how could

the almighty Lord allow so many bad things to happen to good people? And if

God is good, then He is not God, because how could a good Lord allow bad

things to happen if He had the power to stop them?

 

Krishna consciousness can resolve the issue because it allows for the free

will of the individual even in the presence of the almighty Lord. Although

God is all-powerful, He chooses not to interfere with the minute

independence of the living entities, because what He really wants, and what

is really in the best interest of the living entities, is for us to develop

our loving relationship with God. And as Prabhupada often said, love is

voluntary. You can't force someone to love you. So because God ultimately

wants us to love Him, He doesn't force. And Prabhupada gave the example that

if a father forces a child, even if the child obeys, within himself the

child will resent the father. And finally the child may rebel. So force does

not work in loving affairs.

 

Now if we take the terrorists, they have their free will and they chose to

do what they did, and God did not interfere. It doesn't mean that He is not

all-good or that is He is not all-powerful, but because the ultimate goal

for every living entity is to develop love for Godhead, and because love is

voluntary, the all-good God does not interfere and force. He gives all good

instructions to the living entities through the Bhagavad-gita and through

great sages and saintly persons at different times in different places. And

He gives all good instructions to the living entities from within the heart.

Still, he does not interfere with their minute independence--although they

are responsible and obliged to suffer the consequences for their actions.

 

Here someone may concede that the father does not want to interfere with the

minute independence of the children: He gives them good advice but in the

end he allows them to decide if they want to follow or not. But what if one

child exploits another child, or beats another child, or kills one of the

other children? Isn't the father's duty also to protect the innocent

children from the aggressive children? And indeed it is. So we come back to

the question, why did God allow thousands of people to be killed in the

terrorist attacks?

 

We really cannot answer unless we discuss the immortality of the soul and

life after death. The fact is that the soul is eternal. The souls of the

people who died in the attacks have gone on to other destinations. And I

believe that the people who were killed in the terrorist attacks will have

better next lives because the severity of their punishment freed them from

large amounts of sinful reactions or "bad karma."

 

Srila Prabhupada wrote in Srimad-Bhagavatam, citing the Manu-samhita, that

it is in the interest of a murderer to suffer capital punishment because if

he does not, then his present life is spoiled because he must suffer the

inevitable consequences to his crime, and even the next life is spoiled

because he still has to suffer the full reaction. So to award capital

punishment to a murderer is actually in the interest of the murderer in two

ways: The present life immediately ends, so he does not have to suffer in

the present life. And then, according to scripture, the murderer punished

with death is so purified of his sins that in his next life he may be

promoted to higher planets. So, by analogy, I would say that the people who

died in the World Trade Center attacks were purified of so much sinful

reaction that they would be destined for a much better next life.

 

(But again, I am not suggesting that we say this to everyone, because we

always have to consider what the audience can understand and appreciate.)

 

Another point is that the laws of karma are enforced by the demigod in

charge of justice, Yamaraja. Generally the demigods do their duties

perfectly because the Lord guides them. But the demigods are also living

entities within the material world and in exceptional cases their decisions

may be questioned. Here I cite the incident with Manduka Muni. Manduka Muni

was a pious sage living in the forest, and some thieves took shelter in his

ashram. When the police came to the ashram, they found the thieves with

Manduka Muni and arrested them all. Manduka Muni was put to trial and the

judge sentenced him to death by being pierced with a lance. Just when he was

to be pierced, the king got the news and stopped the execution because

Manduka was a great sage. And he personally apologized to the sage for what

had happened.

 

The sage was very upset and went to Yamaraja. He challenged, "What did I do

to be put to death by being pierced by a lance?" Yamaraja answered, "When

you were a child you pierced an insect with a sharp piece of straw." Manduka

Muni thought that Yamaraja had been too harsh with him. He had been a mere

child, and he felt he didn't deserve such a harsh punishment. So he cursed

Yamaraja to take birth as a sudra. And so Yamaraja took birth as Vidura, the

son of Vyasadeva conceived through the womb of the maidservant of Pandu's

mother. Thus Vidura became a half brother of Pandu and Dhrtarastra, but

Dhrtarastra, and especially his son Duryodhana, so insulted Vidura that

Vidura eventually left the palace to travel and take shelter of the holy

places of pilgrimage.

 

Thus we come to another point, that when one is in a difficult situation,

one can use the situation to become more God conscious. When Radhanath Swami

and I were discussing the concentration camps, we considered that the

religious people there could have become so God conscious that in the

extermination chambers they gave up their bodies thinking of God and were

liberated. As it was, most of them were there because of their religion and

they knew what was coming. So some of them, perhaps many, could have given

up their lives thinking of God and been liberated.

 

And although the general impression we get of the World Trade Center is that

people were just running for their lives to get out of the buildings, it is

also possible that some of them realized that they were going to die and

surrendered to God. If people were buried under rubble or in other critical

conditions, they could have come to the point where they thought of God and

just surrendered to Him and were liberated.

 

But I do not think we can give a simple answer. The more one understands,

the more things make sense, and to really understand takes time. It takes

hearing and questioning and discussing.

 

But we have to be true to ourselves when we preach. For example, some days

after the incident, one godbrother phoned me. He had been asked to speak at

the center in San Jose, so before the talk he was thinking what he could say

to the audience, most of whom were devotees, to increase their faith in

Krishna. He thought that just speaking about the laws of karma wouldn't

increase people's faith in Krishna. And just saying that the material world

is a place of misery wouldn't increase people's faith in Krishna either. So

what could he say to increase their faith?

 

On the way to the class he thought of the verse from the Eleventh Chapter of

the Bhagavad-gita where Krishna says, "Time I am, the destroyer of the

worlds." Then he quickly read through the entire Eleventh Chapter and came

to the conclusion that, yes--"Time I am, the destroyer of worlds, come to

engage all people."--Krishna creates the material world ultimately to

destroy it. He gives us the material world because we want to enjoy. But He

knows that the so-called happiness in the material world cannot compare to

the ecstatic love in the spiritual world. He knows that it is in our best

interest to give up our false attachment to the material world and to come

to His loving service. So Krishna destroys the material world, sometimes by

bits and pieces, so that we realize that the material world is not a happy

place. It is not our real home. We have to realize that our real home,

eternal home, is with Krishna, God, and thus we should come to His loving

shelter. My godbrother said that his audience appreciated his class.

 

The next day I thought I might say something similar in our class in

Carpinteria, but I couldn't. Although I accepted the truth of what my

godbrother had said, my mood was different. Somehow my mood, or my

audience's mood, was how to make the world's situation better. And both

ideas are in Prabhupada's books. In the preface to the Srimad-Bhagavatam

Prabhupada says that the world is in need of a common cause to unite all

people, and the common cause is Krishna, the Absolute Truth. And there are

many places in the Srimad-Bhagavatam where Prabhupada talks about solving

the problems of the world, the conflicts and the wars, by educating people

in Krishna consciousness.

 

And I guess I am also sympathetic or empathic by nature. I relate to the

mood of the people I am with. The first Friday after the attack, the

President of the United States asked people to go to their temples or

churches or mosques to pray. So I did that. After our program in

Carpinteria, I went to the special memorial service at the Jewish temple in

Santa Barbara. And people were deeply affected. I met some of my sister's

friends there, and one said she had been crying practically the whole week.

Now when I talk to people and they are crying, I also feel like crying. I

cannot just tell them that Krishna creates the material world to destroy it,

even though it is true. It just doesn't come in my heart at that time. My

heart wants to give them consolation more in terms of what they are feeling.

 

The incident affected people on such a deep level, not because they were

worried they might get anthrax in the mail--that wasn't even an issue

then--or that they might be attacked directly. But they felt a great sense

of connectedness with the people who were affected. I spoke to one friend

in particular for a long time. She asked, "What can I tell people who have

been affected to console them?" I said, "Do you know any people who have

been affected directly?" And she said, "No, but I feel I have been. So if I

know how to console myself, then I'll know how to console them." Then we

discussed that the soul is eternal, that the victims had lives before the

present life, and that they will have lives after the present life. And

although I didn't use the word karma or reincarnation, she understood that

we were talking about reincarnation and in the end she herself said, "I'd

like to discuss more and learn more about reincarnation. Because it's not

part of our Jewish tradition, I'm not so familiar with the concept." But

actually, reincarnation is accepted in some sections of Judaism even now.

It's there in the Bible, and in early Christianity there were Christian

sects that accepted reincarnation. Only later did the church fathers decide

to proscribe reincarnation from the official church doctrine. So

reincarnation is not really foreign to Judaism or Christianity.

 

But again, the main thing is the heart. And if our response, if what we feel

in our heart goes into the heart of the audience, they'll feel better, and

they'll like us. In a sense, the words we speak may be secondary to the care

they feel from us, the support. But again, it also depends on the person,

how much the individual is troubled with philosophical questions of how God

could allow bad things to happen to good people. But sympathy and empathy

are important in any relationship and any interaction. And one thing I can

say about Srila Prabhupada is that he was very sympathetic to people's

material miseries. His concern wasn't just theoretical and abstract, that

people are suffering in the cycle of birth and death, so we must save them.

He actually felt for their daily suffering, and I was surprised myself.

 

We had arranged a program for Srila Prabhupada in Madras. One day when we

were driving in the car we passed a bus stand with a long line of people

waiting for the bus. Only a few of them could actually fit under the

shelter, and most of them were standing under the hot sun. When Srila

Prabhupada saw the people standing in the heat waiting for the bus, he

commented in a voice choked with compassion, "Oh, they have to stand in cue

so long?" He was almost crying, and he had tears in his eyes. He was really

feeling for the people having to stand for such a long time in the sun

waiting for the bus.

 

Of course, we don't mean to suggest that he wanted to start a campaign to

have more buses or to improve the bus stands. It just means that he felt for

the day-to-day sufferings of people, but he knew that the real solution was

Krishna consciousness. And therefore he translated his sympathy and empathy

into his efforts to spread Krishna consciousness.

 

And I usually do that too. I may start thinking of other solutions. And

frankly speaking, I do think of other solutions too, material solutions. But

when I think about them carefully, I always find that they won't really

work, and then I come back to Krishna consciousness.

 

One of the first European devotees in South Africa left South Africa to

become a screenwriter in Los Angeles. Eventually she worked with an Indian

film director named Mira Nair, who had made a film about homeless children

in Bombay. So before meeting the screenwriter, I thought to see the film. I

had lived in Bombay for years, and the film was accurate and true. The way

Mira Nair made the film was itself extraordinary. She went onto the streets

of Bombay and collected the homeless children. She listened to their

stories. Then she wrote the script based on their stories, putting together

various incidents. And then she used the same homeless children to play the

roles of the children in the film. She didn't teach them how to act; she

just taught them how to be natural in front the cameras and not to act. It

was really an amazing film, and a moving experience to watch it.

 

In the end I felt we have to do something, not just for the children in

Bombay, but for children in distress all over the world. I thought of

various material solutions, especially for the children in Bombay because I

had served there and knew people in welfare work there. But eventually I

realized that the only real solution would be if people became Krishna

conscious. So I translated all that feeling for the children into the will

to spread Krishna consciousness.

 

And not only do the children suffer--the prostitutes and others also suffer.

The film vividly portrayed how people take young girls and force them to act

as prostitutes. Sometimes the girls' families are totally destitute and so

desperate for money that they sell the girls to become prostitutes. It is so

unfortunate what happens to them. But eventually I realized the only real

solution is Krishna consciousness. And then I sent some letters to Bombay,

to friends involved in social work there. I sent a message to a man who had

helped Srila Prabhupada. Later he became involved in reforming the

prostitutes. I guess when I was younger and more fanatical I thought he was

just engaged in mundane welfare work, and we should all just spread Krishna

consciousness. But after the film I sent a message to suggest that if he

just added Krishna consciousness to what he was doing for the girls, the

whole effort would become perfect.

 

In Bombay I also knew a very qualified woman who worked in slum areas and

dealt with drug abuse, or substance abuse. When I was still in Bombay she

would arrange programs for us in the slums and we would go and speak and do

kirtana and distribute prasadam. So I wrote to her and encouraged her.

 

And if you really know what's going on in the world, it's bad. If we had any

hopes of good coming from materialistic leaders--I don't want to be too

harsh on them either--but my friend told me about an incident with some

social workers and "experts." She recently attended an international

conference on substance abuse in New Delhi with delegates from all over the

world. Each day they would present papers and discuss the problem of

substance abuse. But in the evenings, many of the delegates themselves would

indulge in hard drugs. And the next day they would return to the conference

to read their papers and discuss. (At least my friend includes spiritual

values in her papers.) Some of the delegates invited her to join them at

their parties, but she refused to indulge because she is a devotee. So her

colleagues would become angry with her. It was so funny. One night the

police busted many of the participants in the conference for substance

abuse! And the delegates who were caught soon appealed to her to save them

with some concocted story that they were doing research for her. (The police

in the end offered to clear them of charges for "a small price.")

 

What I'm saying is that feeling for people or animals is not wrong--like the

time we hit a squirrel on the way to a retreat and came back to aid it--and

that such feelings naturally impel us to want to help. We then can translate

such sentiments into helping people become Krishna conscious--if we're

actually convinced that that is the best way to help them, which personally

I am.

 

And in general--and I'll even go a step further here, and because you're all

mature devotees you've probably realized it anyway--we don't really deny any

human emotion in Krishna consciousness. I think a great example came when a

newspaper publisher in Mauritius asked Srila Prabhupada a question: "Arjuna

heard from God Himself, and Arjuna said he had understood the truth. Yet

when Arjuna heard that his son was killed, he completely lost his composure

and said, 'I am going to throw myself into the fire.'" So the publisher

asked Prabhupada, "Isn't it ridiculous that he learned from God directly and

then acted in such a contrary way?" And Prabhupada said, "No." Srila

Prabhupada explained that Krishna spoke the Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna to

convince him to fight, and that in the end Arjuna did fight. He did not act

against the will of the Lord. "Although in theory we may understand, na

hanyate hanyamane sarire, still, when our son dies we become affected. So

temporarily Arjuna might have been disturbed when his son was killed.

Everyone becomes. But he did not stop his work. He was affected for the time

being. That is natural. But finally he concluded, 'I shall fight.'" So he

did his duty after all. And that was his victory.

 

Now extrapolating from that incident to ourselves, I conclude that it's not

a disqualification to be affected if we lose a loved one. As Prabhupada

said, that is natural; anyone would be affected. But Arjuna's glory is that

he did his duty. Ultimately he obeyed the order of Krishna. So I think with

us too, we might feel things that human beings feel, but if we continue

chanting our rounds, following the principles, and offering our service,

that is our victory--not that we have to be devoid of human emotions.

 

Now before we conclude, there is a devotee here who was just across the

street from the World Trade Center when the attack took place. She witnessed

the terror. It's not just the people who were injured or killed and their

families and friends who were affected, but even the people who were just

there and saw it were affected profoundly. ...

 

Madhusudan Prabhu: I would like to hear what she has to say.

 

Giriraj Swami: Then I'll give a brief introduction. This is

Varsabhanavi-devi dasi. She works for Merrill Lynch in Johannesburg. Her

organization offered her a course in New York City to help her develop her

skills as a financial analyst, and the Merrill Lynch building is just across

the street from the World Trade Center. That's where she was, and she

watched it from there.

 

Varsabhanavi-devi dasi:

 

I remember just before the incident took place there were police sirens that

were unrelated to the World Trade Center attack. So I heard these sirens. We

were in the auditorium and the lecturer was speaking. We heard these sirens

and I looked at my watch and it was 8.50 am. When I heard the sirens I was

thinking, "I'm from South Africa where there is so much crime--hijackings,

murders, robberies, rapes. We hear this sound all the time." I laughed

because I was thinking that to the New Yorkers this must be something

unusual, because America is generally regarded as a safe place.

 

Within seconds after that thought we all heard a huge bang and the building

we were in just shook, literally shook. At that stage I was thinking that it

was an earth tremor or an earthquake--something like that. Then the lecturer

mentioned that this sounded exactly like the bombing of the World Trade

Center in 1993. We were stunned, but we still didn't know what was

happening.

 

Then a few of our tutors ran into the auditorium and said that a plane had

crashed into the World Trade Center. We all thought it was an accident. We

didn't realize it was a terrorist attack. So we went to the next classroom.

Many of my colleagues went to the window, and I also went. The World Trade

Center was within our vision and flames were coming out of the building. The

airplane was in the building already, and it was just horrific. In fact,

many of my colleagues were hysterical. Many were crying. Personally I was

just shocked, I was just stunned. When the flames were coming out of the

building I was thinking, "There are so many people suffering in there." A

year ago I had an accident with fire. I burnt part of my feet when hot oil

fell onto them. It was extremely painful. So I could only imagine what they

were going through in the building.

 

Then we saw people jumping out of the building. I remember one person in

particular. He wore pants, shirt and tie, and his tie was flapping. It was

really horrible. Actually many of them who had jumped out were trying to

stay afloat. They were flapping their arms. I was thinking, "Oh, Krishna,

please help them." We were witnessing this whole incident but we were

completely helpless. We couldn't help them or do anything. So I was praying,

"Please help them, Krishna."

 

About fifteen minutes later I saw the second airplane, and it was so

deliberate. I was thinking that this was evil when the second airplane flew

around the corner and just entered the second building. Everyone screamed.

Until then everybody thought it was an accident, but when the second

airplane came, then we were thinking that this is really no accident. And we

were next to the building, and we were high up, and I was thinking I could

die at any moment. There could be more planes around. I must start chanting.

Now is the time, now is the test. But I couldn't chant. I was numb. I walked

up and down the lecture room thinking I have to chant, but I couldn't.

 

There was one colleague of mine, Patrick. He is from Brazil. And he was

sitting down and praying. I really admired him. He had his hand on the table

and his head on his hand and he was just saying prayers. And I was thinking

whether he was a Jew or a Muslim or a Christian or whatever, but he was

praying at that time.

 

Then the building supervisor came up and told us, "I don't know what's

happening, but you are not safe up here. Better come down." At that stage we

were on the twenty-second floor. Everybody, although they were in shock, was

very orderly. No one panicked. Everyone kept their cool and we all walked

down the stairs.

 

When we got down there were people all over on the ground floor. Outside

there were huge crowds everywhere. Police vehicles, ambulances, fire

engines. Now when I think about it, those first fire engines--all those

firemen left their bodies. There was chaos outside. I was thinking, better

just stay inside and if I'm going to leave my body then I'll just stay here

and chant the holy names. Before doing that I thought of my parents. I

phoned my brother and told him what happened and that I was safe, I was

okay, and not to worry about me.

 

Everyone was dumbfound and aimless. Then I took my chanting beads and sat on

the floor and I was just chanting. It felt good. Then one of my colleagues

came up to me and said, "It's really not safe here. We should really get out

of here immediately." He took me out--I was going to stay put and just chant

there--and outside was complete chaos. The buildings were in flames, police

vehicles moving up and down, people just... I couldn't comprehend the

disaster. Actually before this incident, I can still recall the mood of New

York--it was very vibrant, happy and jolly. When this happened the entire

mood just turned around. Anyway, we were walking down the street. Hoards of

people were following.

 

About five minutes later one of the towers came crashing down. There was

smoke everywhere. We had just missed it. And I was just thinking that

Krishna worked through this colleague of mine to get me out of that

building. As we were walking down I didn't verbally chant but I was trying

to think of Krishna--to some extent. We walked about forty blocks down and

most people who were walking with us were very orderly. But nobody was

speaking. Everybody was silent.

 

Then we walked down into our hotel. We were sitting in the bar in the

entrance. There was a television so we watched, because we didn't really

know what had happened and who had done it. On the television we heard that

the Pentagon was also hit. Everyone was stunned. Many of the people there

were taking shelter of alcohol.

 

About fifteen minutes later a person who works for Morgan Stanley in the

South Tower--he was on the sixty-third floor and he managed to escape. When

he came there, he was really shaking. He was around my age. He was shaking.

He said, "I was there. I was right in the building." He was telling us his

story. When the first tower was hit, most of the people in the South Tower

started evacuating, but there was a message on the intercom that they should

return to their desks. He said that there was no way he was going to stay,

and something inside him told him to just keep on going. When he was walking

down the staircase he saw a fat lady, and she was having a heart attack.

There was another lady who was pregnant. I felt very upset and asked him

what happened to them. He said, "I don't know. I just kept on going.

Something inside said, 'Keep on going.' I don't know if they made it or

not."

 

Actually New York after that was just not the same. The whole vibrant mood

was lost. One or two days after the terrorist attack there were many bomb

threats. I don't know who it was--whether it was the same organization or

just pranksters. We were staying in mid-Manhattan and it was 10.30 pm. I was

taking rest. All of a sudden we heard the hotel siren and the hotel people

told us to evacuate. For me it was the last straw. I was thinking, "What

more?" It was very intense. I was in my nightwear. I was thinking this was

too much. So we had to walk down the stairs again and we were walking

outside. I felt so alone. I felt really alone. And I just had my beads, and

I was chanting. I was just chanting and crying a lot. At that stage I was

thinking, "It's just Krishna. It's just Krishna there." Srila Prabhupada

used to say that you should chant as though you're a helpless child. It's

the first time I experienced that. I had only the holy names--I didn't even

have proper clothing, I didn't have anything--just my japa beads and the

holy names.

 

Then we walked down. All the people in the area were walking, and many of

them were crying. I think it was too much for everyone to handle.

 

I also had a few nightmares regarding the whole incident. In one week I had

three nightmares. But one nightmare, in retrospect when I think of it,

taught me a lot. I don't know where I was, but there was a creature coming

towards me trying to kill me. I was trying to defend myself, as Draupadi

initially did. I was throwing objects at it and it just didn't work. The

creature was coming towards me stronger and stronger. Then I stopped

throwing things at it and just started screaming, "Krishna! Krishna!" and

this creature stopped and laughed. He said, "You do not know Krishna," and

walked away. When I turned I saw my spiritual master standing next to me.

Now when I think of it, it's true, I do not know Krishna, but I have my

spiritual master who knows Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.

 

>From the experience I learned a lot--to be more dependent on the Vaisnavas

and to take shelter of the holy names. I chant so mechanically. This

incident taught me to focus on the holy names and chant with feeling.

 

Hare Krishna.

 

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[We have edited the transcript for clarity and accuracy. --GS]

 

 

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