CONVERSATIONS IN MATHURA - KINDLY BLOCK SUCH MAILS

[Guest guest]

> Syamarani dasi: No. So, in Radharani, is prema-vicitya higher than

> divyonmada?

>

> Srila Narayana Maharaja: I cannot say this. But I can say that divyonmada

> and prema-vicitya in Vraja are more than in Dvaraka, and more than in

> Mathura - Radhika's prema-vicitya and divonmada are more than that of

> anyone else. That I can tell.

>

> Syamarani dasi: But when Radharani is in Uddhava-kyeri in divyonmada, is

> that higher, or is prema-vicitya in Vrindavana higher?

 

I request the moderator to please block these mails. They discuss such

esoteric topics which have been completely banned for us to hear by all the

previous acaryas.

 

Just a few examples:

 

HH BR Sridhar Maharaj in the book Follow the Angels:

 

Our master (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada) did not

allow us to read the books where higher lilas are described:

Govinda-lilamritam, Stava-kusumanjali, Ujjvala-nilamani. He did not allow us

to study and to discuss them. Rather he would be very much disturbed if he

heard that someone was interfering with with the higher lilas in those

books. He did not take it.

 

....That was barred:(SBSST said)" Don't try to come into details there. That

wil automatically come when there is time. Do not make it a public

discussion. Do not place it in the public eye."

 

Guru Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisidhhanta Sarasvati Thakura preached exclusively

this madhurya-rasa, but with great precaution. He used perhaps 90% of his

energy to point out the negative side, the imitation-"This is not

madhurya-rasa"- and clear away the sahajiya misconceptions. He had to spare,

in his words,'gallons of blood' to establish what is not madhurya-rasa.

 

Also SBSST said, "Madhurya-rasa should not be preached."

 

"Pujala raga-patha gaurava bhange. Try to keep Her (Radharani) and Her group

at a respectful distance, above your head. Don't rush towards that position.

It is not that cheap. On your head, over your head, don't be bold enough to

approach directly. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

 

"That is high, very high, and from below we are to honour that."

 

"Our guru's order is that it will offensive to attend Rasa-lila discussion,

so I had come down. This is my guru's order: to attend Rasa-lila explanation

is aparadha."

 

"Preach suddha-bhakti of Prahlada first. People are ripe in sahajiya,

imitation of devotion. Just try to make them understand, to enter into the

plane of bhakti. That is great; what to speak of Krsna-lila- that is far far

above."

 

"Pour water onto the root and the fruit will come by itself."

 

The following excerpt is from a room conversation with Srila

Prabhupada in Bombay, 1976 August 16 (from Bhaktivedanta Vedabase 4.11):

 

Prabhupada: [...] My Guru Maharaja wanted to publish Govinda-lilamrta. He

asked permission of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. So first of all Bhaktivinoda

Thakura, “I’ll tell you some day.” And when he reminded, he said, “Yes you

can print one copy. If you are so much anxious to print it, print one copy.

You’ll read and you will see that you have printed. Not for distribution.”

So we are printing all these books for understanding properly. Not that

“Here is Radha-kunda. Let us go.” Jump over like monkey. “Here is rasa-lila.

Immediately...”

 

>From Bhakti Vikasa Swami's notes on SBSST:

 

During the time of Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Sarasvati Thakura, who was

entrusted by Bhaktivinoda Thakura to print many Gaudiya Vaisnava books which

were not in print, wanted to print Govinda-lilamrta and Gita-Govinda, and

Gopi-Gita, but Bhaktivinoda Thakura rebuked him saying, "No more than two

copies are required, and you can keep them in the library. No one in this

world can understand these books. Print two: one for yourself that you may

be satisfied, and another one in case anyone in the future can understand."

So Sarasvati Thakura stopped the printing on Bhaktivinoda Thakura's order.

Bhaktivinoda Thakura said that it was better that the rasa sastra be taken

out from this world and destroyed rather than be exposed to those who are

not fit to understand it. Great damage has been done by the misuse of these

rasa sastras, by exposing them to people not fit to hear.

 

Sarasvati Thakura was so strict that Jotisekhara recalled that in the time

of Sarasvati Thakura in the Gaudiya Math they had never seen the

rasa-grantha (the books dealing with the intimate rasa pastimes of Radha and

Krsna, such as Gita-Govinda, Govinda-lilamrta, etc.) His rule was not to

read rasa-grantha. Even in the Caitanya-caritamrta there are some sections

which describe the feelings of rasa that Radharani is expressing for Krsna.

Sarasvati Thakura said to his disciples, "Don't read this section. It's not

for you. You are not at this stage!"

 

Conversation, 24 January, 1977: "My guru maharaja (Sarasvati Thakura) used

to say that, `When our members become sahajiyas, they will be more

dangerous.'Those who are outside and are sahajiyas, we know their

position, they are not following any correct siddhanta or any proper acarya.

So we know they are sahajiyas, and we avoid their association. But if

someone, in the name of being a follower of the proper acarya, if he's also

a sahajiya, if our own men become sahajiyas, in the guise of being bona fide

followers of a proper acarya, then they are more dangerous, because, in the

name of doing the right thing, they will be misleading people into doing the

wrong thing."

 

At the time of Rasa Yatra and Jhulan Yatra, Sarasvati Thakura didn't have

these in his temples, didn't have these festivals celebrated in his Mathas.

He said, "Let the devotees hear and try to understand Krsna. Let them not

try to enjoy this rasa-lila from the unrealized stage." So Rasa Yatra and

Jhulan Yatra were not celebrated. They did not have a swing in the temples

in the Gaudiya Math on Jhulan Yatra. Madhurya Rasa should not be preached.

__

 

Inspite of all these statements from the acaryas, so much free talk

is going on about these higher topics. Also translation and publishing of

such books is going on. Ujjvala-nilamani which is the one of the highest

among the rasa-sastras is being translated. Since Bhaktivinoda Thakura said:

"No one in this world can understand these books", I don't know for whom is

this book being translated. Bhaktivinoda Thakura did not let Srila

Bhaktisiddhanta print Govinda-lilamrita according to Prabhupada, and he

surely would never give permission to print a similar if not higher book

like Ujjvala Nilamani. Param Pujyapada Bhaktiprajnan Kesava Maharaj was so

strict in this regard that he would always discuss hardcore Vedanta (in

relation with bhakti) with his devotees and was quick to point out any

sahajiya contamination and stay far away from the discussion of such

elevated topics.

 

Atleast I personally want to stay away from such discussions and I request

that the repeated postings of such esoteric emails on Katha should be

blocked immediately, warning or without warning.

 

Your aspiring servant, BR Sadhu Swami