Marriage without children

[Guest guest]

>Sorry, but I beg to disagree. Here's Chanakya again:

>

>Prabhupada did quote Canakya: "Putra hina grha shunyam." A home without a

>child is void (useless).

 

Thank you for replying. So basically you are taking "a home being void" or

"a home being useless" to be synonymous with "a marriage being abominable".

I'm unable to agree with such a comparison, as the meanings are clearly not

identical. Though a home without a son may be void, it does not necessarily

follow that such a marrriage is abominable. The logic employed is faulty.

 

>Also there is the practical matter of who will look after and protect the

>woman in her old age?

 

The answer to such a question would not change the fact of whether or not

Srila Prabhupada said "marriage without children is abominable" and

therefore is mostly irrelevant to the discussion. Who will take care of the

woman, who will perform the cremation of the man and woman, who will

continue the family lineage, all of these questions are not the question

that was asked, though certainly very interesting questions. Answers are

there for all of them (refer Gita 2.15 purport), but it is a different

topic. Just because some apparent material complication or difficulty

results does not estabish that the original statement is valid (that

marriage without children is abominable).

 

Furthermore it would be helpful if we clearly state whether the use of the

word abominable is used in the sense of "grossly improper" or "an

intolerable and difficult situation". The meaning of the sentence becomes

completely different depending on which usage is being employed.

 

In the sense of "grossly improper", it would imply that it is somewhat akin

to sinful conduct or at least a violation of Vedic principles.

 

Whereas in the case of "a difficult and intolerable situation" it refers

simply to material circumstances of happiness and distress, which should be

tolerated by devotees of Krishna.

 

The example of the desert, voidness, etc., employed by Chanakya is certainly

in reference to a difficult circumstance, not a violation of Vedic

principle. Thus we could conclude that devotees may "live in the desert"

with the strength of their higher spiritual practices of service to Krishna

and remain unaffected.

 

>Isn't being left alone in old age "abominable"?

 

No, that is your opinion without taking into consideration possible

circumstances. Being alone at the mercy of Krishna could be considered

blissful by some people. Equating being "left alone in one's old age" with

"marriage without children is abominable" is a tremendous stretch and

interpretation that it is almost humorous.

 

>Srila Prabhupada's quoting Chanakya, above, is as good as his saying that

>"marriage without children is abominable".

 

"As good as"? Again a tremendous stretch of interpretation. In otherwords

Srila Prabhupada has never said that marriage without children is

abominable, but he did say the following (which was already cited):

 

"If the husband and wife can voluntarily restrain by powerful advancement

of Krishna Consciousness. That is the best method. It is not necessary

that because one has got wife, therefore you must have sex life. The whole

scheme is to avoid sex life as far as possible. And if one can avoid it

completely then it is a great victory for him."

 

What is the meaning of "that is the best method"? Or how about "It is not

necessary that because one has got wife, therefore you must have sex life."

 

Srila Prabhupada's direct instruction is there that contradicts your

stretched interpretation of a maxim of Chanakya. Which to accept? Should we

go with the "its as good as if he had said it" or should we accept what he

did factually say?

 

>That he seems to contradict himself - and the many other quotes that I sent

>out about the importance of a child, and specifically a son, in this regard

>back up the Chankaya quote fully - can be understood as follows.

 

He does not contradict himself at all. He says "If the husband and wife can

voluntarily restrain by powerful advancement of Krishna Consciousness. That

is the best method." If they cannot restrain themselves, then they should

dovetail sex life in the service of the Lord with the aim of eventually

becoming free from such attraction. The linguistic root of the word putra in

no way contradicts such a statement. A son is important to deliver the

forefathers from hell, but one who takes to the service of Mukunda delivers

14 generations of forefathers by dint of his devotional service.

 

Renunciation and regulated sense enjoyment are not contradictory. One is

one's ultimate aim, and the other is the gradual process to attain that aim.

Sex life is regulated through progeny which leads to sacrifice and

purification in the form of raising a Krishna conscious child. But the

ultimate goal is to become free from such attraction by dint of one's

devotional absorption ("If the husband and wife can voluntarily restrain by

powerful advancement of Krishna Consciousness. That is the best method.").

 

>One point you seem to have overlooked, is that sex life according to

>religious principles is Krishna Himself! And the object of that "legal"

>sex is procreation, believe it or not! :-)

 

And even that legal sex life (which is Krishna) must eventually be renounced

in order to advance in Krishna consciousness. Srila Prabhupada has said

whether you steal a cucumber or a diamond you are still a thief (whether

regulated or unregulated sex life). Ultimately we must become free from sex

desire and renounce. Thus again the second half of Srila Prabhupada's above

cited statement, "The whole scheme is to avoid sex life as far as possible.

And if one can avoid it completely then it is a great victory for him."

makes that very clear.

 

>In conclusion, if this explaination doesn't satisfy you, then I leave the

>search for the quote from Srila Prabhupada to you, as I assume you have a

>set of his books! :-)

 

I suppose we will have to disagree on this point. I still fail to see any

quote from Srila Prabhupada where he says "marriage without children is

abominable", especially when the above cited letter says the opposite.