Guest guest Posted February 10, 1999 Report Share Posted February 10, 1999 Do you have some evidence of this quotes being truth? ys, Sdd HARIBOL! \0/ /_\ > De: COM: (Bhakta) Ivar Verploegh (Antwerpen - B) <Ivar.Verploegh (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> > A: COM: Madan Gopal (das) LOK (Denver, CO - USA) <Madan.Gopal.LOK (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> > CC: COM: Brahmacarya <Brahmacarya (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: (Krsna) Katha <Katha (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Bhadra Balaram (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN) <Bhadra.Balaram.JPS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: (Bhakta) Dr. V. Govindaraju (Panvel - IN) <Dr.V.Govindaraju (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; H.G. Locanananda Prabhu <LFELDA (AT) aol (DOT) com>; Mrugesh Prabhu <mrugesh@merck_com>; Prasad prabhu <prasad (AT) fulcrum (DOT) ecc.engr.uky.edu> > Asunto: 4 rounds, 16 rounds or 64 rounds > Fecha: Martes 9 de Febrero de 1999 09:00 > > [Text 2085171 from COM] > > > So one NIRBANDHA stands for 64 rounds. That is the reason why BSST > > prescribed chanting of a minimum of 64 rounds everyday, which is > > accordance to the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in Caitanya > > Bhagavat. > > Actually Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura prescribed a minimum of 4 rounds > (one granthi) for those engaged in preaching. He used to say: "Just don't > let the beads fast." This is still the harinama initiation standard in the > Gaudiya Matha. He prescribed 16 or 64 rounds for all others. > > Srutakirti Prabhu quoted Srila Prabhupada where he said that he chanted 16 > rounds during his grihastha days. As far as the standard for preachers is > concerned, Harikesa Prabhu said some time ago: "Prabhupada chanted maximum > four rounds a day. Maximum. I know, because I used to be with him in the > middle of the night. I know what he was doing. Maximum four rounds. Not more > than 20 minutes. Maybe sometimes 30 minutes of chanting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 1999 Report Share Posted February 10, 1999 This is an excerpt from my book in the making which will hopefully be at soon. I hope it answers some of the questions, if not feel free to ask more? Srila Prabhupada Uvaca 61 May 1973, Los Angeles, Ca., Camp: ISKCON, New Dwarka It is easy to understand that Srila Prabhupada enjoyed chanting japa. He always stressed to us the importance of chanting our 16 rounds. He told me that as a householder he used a simple process for completing 16 rounds that we could apply. He said, "When I was a householder I would chant 4 rounds before each meal and 4 rounds before retiring in the evening. In this way 16 rounds could be chanted without difficulty." He laughed and said, "If you don't take prasadam before chanting your 4 rounds then you will be sure to get them chanted." In New Dwarka he said to me, "In the evening, if I get tired, I walk and chant." Looking at me he said, "If you are tired, then walk and chant like I do. Sometimes, if I am tired I pace back and forth in the room. Simply, in one room you can do everything. If you are tired, you can stand up and chant, like I do." It was very common to see Srila Prabhupada walking around in his quarters or sitting in his rocking chair, chanting rounds. Sometimes in the evening he would chant rounds while I was giving him massage in bed. Sometimes, he would say, "There, I'm finished." Once in New Dwarka I was in his sitting room cleaning around his desk. He was sitting behind his desk chanting japa. As he pulled down a counter bead he looked at me with a beautiful smile and said humorously, "There, I have finished my 16 rounds. Now I can do any damn thing I want." Sometimes devotees would ask Srila Prabhupada about following certain rules in regards to Ekadasi or following Catur mas. Srila Prabhupada responded, "My disciples, they cannot even chant 16 rounds and follow the principles. What is the use of these other rules and regulations. First, just do these things. Do the simple things that I ask you to do. Don't concern yourself with all these rituals. First, chant your 16 rounds and follow the principles." One day a brahmacari entered Srila Prabhupada's room and told him that he had fallen down with a woman. He told Srila Prabhupada that perhaps he should get married. Srila Prabhupada answered, "Marriage. Why do you think marriage is going to solve your difficulties? You should chant. Just chant Hare Krishna. Chant your 16 rounds." There were so many times that devotees went into Srila Prabhupada's room with a problem they were hoping he would solve with some particular arrangement. His solution was always the same. "Chant Hare Krishna, chant your 16 rounds." He developed the phrase, "Just do it" long before Nike. He once told a disciple, "If there is some difficulty, you chant loudly. If there is some agitation, chant out loud." One time it was brought to his attention that a senior devotee was not attending Mangal Arati or chanting rounds, at least with the other devotees. Srila Prabhupada said, "Do it to set the example for the other devotees. You, yourself are very advanced. You do not need to attend Mangal Arati but you should set the example for those that require it." Thank you Srila Prabhupada for being the Acarya. You always taught by example. You chanted rounds. You said three Gayatri mantras a day, rose early in the morning and put tilak on your transcendental body. You never asked any disciple to do something you were not doing yourself. You always practiced what you preached. You showed us practically how a pure devotee conducts himself. I have been in illusion since time immemorial but I pray that I am never deluded into thinking that this process of devotional service is only for the neophyte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 1999 Report Share Posted February 10, 1999 By the way if you want to read any other stories, some are relevant to chanting 16 rounds, you can get to the Srila Prabhupada Uvaca website at: http://users.aol.com/vrinda/ppduvaca/uvaca.htm Also, I would like to mention that in the two years I spent with Srila Prabhupada between 9/72 to 5/75 there was often evidence to me that he chanted well over 4 rounds a day and as I mentioned in one story he specifically indicated to me that he had finished his sixteen rounds. Also, I often saw him pulling down his counter beads. I was never bold enough to see how many rounds were getting done, nor was I concerned about how many he was doing. I was convinced that every breath he took was filled with the vibration of "Hare Krishna" I watched him chant on his beads in the early morning, on his morning walk, after breakfast, late in the afternoon, in the early evening and sometimes while sitting in bed during his evening massage. Your servant, Srutakirti dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 1999 Report Share Posted February 11, 1999 On 10 Feb 1999, Sridhari dd wrote: > Do you have some evidence of this quotes being truth? > > > Dear Mataji PAMHO AGTSP It is obvious in the past Harikesa Prabhu has said something else about Prabhupadas chanting,what ever reason he has for saying differently now is not important.He has said many things that where offensive to Srila Prabhupada and it is very sad for those of us that were hisdisciples,like myself.We have known him for 2o years and never once heard him say that in the past.After he is not so bitter anymore he may come back to ISKCON ,lets just please drop this painfull issue.The main thing is others saw Srila Prabhupada chant his 16 rounds or more. As the the acarya spreading the holy name all over the world,why should anyone believe he had less attraction for the holy name than a regular devotee that chants 16 rounds.Only a madman will believe this ,and only a madman wil suggest Srila Prabhupada did not chant 16 rounds. YS Payonidhi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 1999 Report Share Posted February 12, 1999 Hare Krishna. What does rounds matter to Srila Prabhupada ? Krishna is there with him constantly and his every breath is Hare Krishna. So why this nonsense business of subjecting an uttama adhikari on the platform of spontaneous loving service to the rigours of us struggling souls with hardly any taste for Harinama ? Srila Prabhupada was fully absorbed in Krishna consciousness. His walking, speaking, chanting all were hare krishna hare krishna !!!!! so let us stop this business !!!!!!! To subject the spiritual master to such scrutiny is terrible offence !!!!!! Hare Krishna. Jai Simman WWW: Payonidhi (Dasa) HKS (Boston MA - USA) <matsya (AT) com (DOT) org> COM: (Krsna) Katha <Katha (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Bhadra Balaram (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN) <Bhadra.Balaram.JPS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; H.G. Locanananda Prabhu <LFELDA (AT) aol (DOT) com>; COM: (Bhakta) Ivar Verploegh (Antwerpen - B) <Ivar.Verploegh (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Krsna-krpa (das) SDG (BI) (Alachua, FL - USA) <Krsna-krpa.SDG (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Madan Gopal (das) LOK (Denver, CO - USA) <Madan.Gopal.LOK (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; Mrugesh Prabhu <mrugesh@merck_com>; Prasad prabhu <prasad (AT) fulcrum (DOT) ecc.engr.uky.edu> Friday, February 12, 1999 10:26 AM RE: 4 rounds, 16 rounds or 64 rounds >[Text 2090326 from COM] > >On 10 Feb 1999, Sridhari dd wrote: > >> Do you have some evidence of this quotes being truth? >> >> >> >Dear Mataji >PAMHO >AGTSP >It is obvious in the past Harikesa Prabhu has said something else about >Prabhupadas chanting,what ever reason he has for saying differently now >is not important.He has said many things that where offensive to Srila >Prabhupada and it is very sad for those of us that were hisdisciples,like >myself.We have known him for 2o years and never once heard him say that in the >past.After he is not so bitter anymore he may come back to ISKCON >,lets just please drop this painfull issue.The main thing is others saw >Srila Prabhupada chant his 16 rounds or more. > As the the acarya spreading the holy name all over the world,why should >anyone believe he had less attraction for the holy name than a regular devotee >that chants 16 rounds.Only a madman will believe this ,and only a madman wil >suggest Srila Prabhupada did not chant 16 rounds. >YS >Payonidhi das > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 1999 Report Share Posted February 12, 1999 Questioning Srila Prabhupada's chanting of Hare Krishna is tantamount to saying that the gopis and radharani forgot Krishna for a split second !!!! it is simply not possible !!!!!!! R. Jai Simman COM: Sraddha (dd) HKS (Gothenburg - S) <Sraddha.HKS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> COM: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Bhadra Balaram (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN) <Bhadra.Balaram.JPS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; H.G. Locanananda Prabhu <LFELDA (AT) aol (DOT) com>; COM: Krsna-krpa (das) SDG (BI) (Alachua, FL - USA) <Krsna-krpa.SDG (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Madan Gopal (das) LOK (Denver, CO - USA) <Madan.Gopal.LOK (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; Mrugesh Prabhu <mrugesh@merck_com>; WWW: Payonidhi (Dasa) HKS (Boston MA - USA) <matsya (AT) com (DOT) org>; Prasad prabhu <prasad (AT) fulcrum (DOT) ecc.engr.uky.edu>; COM: (Krsna) Katha <Katha (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se> Friday, February 12, 1999 10:26 AM 4 rounds, 16 rounds or 64 rounds >[Text 2090676 from COM] > > <It is sad that Harikesa Prabhu has become so critical of Srila Prabhupada > <,it indicates to me it make take him a few lives to returne to devotional > <service. > > If chanting is devotional service, than he definitelly didn't stop >devotional service, since he >is still very enthusiastically chanting and preaching about Radha and >Krishna. As far as taking him a few life times to return to devotional >service, be careful, because you could find >yourself in the same situation soon, because you also have become very >critical of your >own spiritual master. > > Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 1999 Report Share Posted February 12, 1999 On 12 Feb 1999, Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy wrote: > Hare Krishna. > > What does rounds matter to Srila Prabhupada ? > > Krishna is there with him constantly and his every breath is Hare Krishna. > So why this nonsense business of subjecting an uttama adhikari on the > platform of spontaneous loving service to the rigours of us struggling souls > with hardly any taste for Harinama ? Srila Prabhupada was fully absorbed in > Krishna consciousness. His walking, speaking, chanting all were hare krishna > hare krishna !!!!! so let us stop this business !!!!!!! > To subject the spiritual master to such scrutiny is terrible offence !!!!!! > > Hare Krishna. > > Jai Simman > Dear Prabhu PAMHO AGTSP You are right that Srila Prabhupada was fully KC.He once said:" There was never a time I forgot krsna".However as an acarya he sets the example for others to follow,and there is no doubt that Srila Prabhupada was always absorbed in chanting Hare Krsna,and remembering Krsna,however it makes it unpalatebel when Harikesa made some comments to try to shake the faith in neophyte devotees by saying he only chanted 4 rounds or so. Then it is like he says see,srila Prabhupada was not so great so why don't you leave ISKCON with me as I am greater than Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada talked about how some disciples wants to "kill the guru" and take his position.It seems that was the case here,and as Srutakirti Prabhu pointed out he has seen Prabhupada chant his 16 rounds as has many other devotees.But trying to create doubt that Srila Prabhupada was chanting his rounds is fully offensive?What do you think??Srila Prabhupada needs to be the center in ISKCON,and as long as someone wants to be equal to or better than Srila Prabhupada there is going to be falldowns.Now we don't want ritvik initiation but humble devotees guiding junior devotees in their spiritual life as Gurus,but not all this artificial stuff,my guru is better than your guru.Right there shows they are both neophyte.We must become servants,the guru is the servant of his disciple,as he guides them in spiritual life,the ISKCON way is control and power and no change of hearts in KC ,this is where the Guru reform lays.I just read a posting of Locananda Prabhu and I was touched by his humbel attempt to be a guru.And I know that persons under the guidance of such a humble soul will make lots of advancement. It is not easy to be a Guru as you are required to be a pure devotee. But rupperstamping will not do as we are seeing now.It is a big subject.. Your servant Payonidhi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 1999 Report Share Posted February 13, 1999 On 13 Feb 1999, Govinda Nandini wrote: > Pamho. AGTSP. > > Dear Payonidhi Prabhu, > > Please in the future read your texts a few times before you send them. Then > best "freeze" them, and then read them again next day. Perhaps you will decide > to change them or not to send them at all. > > Although I have no intention to follow our former guru whatsoever, I think > your text is very one-sided and should never be written by anyone, especially > a former disciple. The situation might be much more complex than it seems and > whatever it is, it's better for all of us to avoid committing offences as much > as possible, or even at all cost. And just the fact that a person committs > offences is not a reason for us to offend that person. We might ourselves get > in troubles in our spiritual life. > > Also, imho, the moderator of the conference would do better not sending such > texts as Payonidhi's Prabhu comment on Sraddha's text to the conference. It > doesn't benefit anybody. > > ys.GNdd > > PS. Just for the record, I certainly don't agree with Sraddha's view, and also > think her text is a result of a sentimental approach. Dear Mataji PAMHO AGTSP I already responded to you privatly,why do you post the same letter publicly?However I will happily explain my views one more time as it is beneficial. I have seen over many years the way Harikesa did things, I did not approve of many things he did and so did many of his godbrothers also not. He has recently and repeatedly committed many offences to Srila Prabhupada ,by stating Srila Prabhupada was not as divine as we think in ISKCON.He has questioned Srila Prabhupada's statement on many things including the womens issue,where he totaly disagrees with Srila Prabhupada.Tokyo,January 30 1974 Srila Prabhupada gave a lecture about disagreeing with the spiritual master,and if any sincere person listens to this lecture it can leave no doubt,that Harikesa is envious of Srila Prabhupada.I really don't see why it is so difficult to see,unless one is sentimentally attached to him???Personally he has caused lots of havoc in my life,and listened to lies about me by some jealous persons that later left the movement.He threw out many senior men of ISKCON like Bhakti Doyal Swami,Vegavan Prabhu,Ajit and you name them.If there is still some devotees that think he is as good as God then I understand why they think like this.But is it not obvious he fell down from sannyasa ,almost got married to a hippy rajness girl.He always had some sentimental dealings with some female disciples,and that is against sastra.Actually SB warns a guru to not fall into the trap of flattering disciples and flattering women.I have been schocked how some sentimental russian ladies treated him like a messiah.One lady was crawling on all four to touch his feet, when he visited the NY temple in 1990.I know because I was serving him. In order to favor some certain disciples leading devotees in Sweden like Vegavan Prabhu was driven out of the temple. Please don't think he is a pure devotee,this is what I want devotees to understand. No pure devotee falls down with his own disciple and marries her,it is considered being with ones own daughter.For some female disciples of Harikesa it was hard,as they adored him and listened to his rock music. A combined rock star/guru symbol!By the way Srila Prabhupada forbade the selling of records and told devotees to sell his books instead.But though Harikesa knew this he liked to make music and have devotees sell his records,is that not material desires right there?? Your servant Payonidhi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 1999 Report Share Posted February 13, 1999 >Do you have some evidence of this quotes being truth? Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Re how much SP chanted on his beads. The best quote that I find that answers this doubt is Srila Prabhupada himself. I remember listening from his lectures where he would say 'just like we count 25 rounds minimum'. So the proof for that would be he himself. (it was nice to see how he speaks about his own standard not the regular of 16 rounds and later on corrects himself as he talk to the large audience of devotees.) Here it goes from the folio: Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1975 Just like we count twenty-five rounds minimum, so Ragunatha dasa Gosvami was also chanting by counting. Similarly, he was offering dandavat. You offer dandavat, the same way. That is also counting. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih. Sankhya-purvaka, keeping a strength, a numerical strength, just like we are advised at least sixteen rounds. --------- ys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 1999 Report Share Posted February 16, 1999 Jay Jai Simman prabhu. That was precise. Hari gopal dasa > ---------- > COM: (Bhakta) R. Jai Simman > (Singapore)[sMTP:R.Jai.Simman (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se] > Reply Katha (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se > Friday, February 12, 1999 8:43 AM > matsya (AT) com (DOT) org; COM: (Krsna) Katha > Re: 4 rounds, 16 rounds or 64 rounds > > [Text 2091203 from COM] > > Hare Krishna. > > What does rounds matter to Srila Prabhupada ? > > Krishna is there with him constantly and his every breath is Hare Krishna. > So why this nonsense business of subjecting an uttama adhikari on the > platform of spontaneous loving service to the rigours of us struggling > souls > with hardly any taste for Harinama ? Srila Prabhupada was fully absorbed > in > Krishna consciousness. His walking, speaking, chanting all were hare > krishna > hare krishna !!!!! so let us stop this business !!!!!!! > To subject the spiritual master to such scrutiny is terrible offence > !!!!!! > > Hare Krishna. > > Jai Simman > > WWW: Payonidhi (Dasa) HKS (Boston MA - USA) <matsya (AT) com (DOT) org> > COM: (Krsna) Katha <Katha (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP > (Baroda - IN) <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Bhadra Balaram (das) JPS > (Mayapur - IN) <Bhadra.Balaram.JPS (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; H.G. Locanananda Prabhu > <LFELDA (AT) aol (DOT) com>; COM: (Bhakta) Ivar Verploegh (Antwerpen - B) > <Ivar.Verploegh (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Krsna-krpa (das) SDG (BI) (Alachua, FL - > USA) <Krsna-krpa.SDG (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; COM: Madan Gopal (das) LOK (Denver, CO - > USA) <Madan.Gopal.LOK (AT) com (DOT) bbt.se>; Mrugesh Prabhu <mrugesh@merck_com>; > Prasad prabhu <prasad (AT) fulcrum (DOT) ecc.engr.uky.edu> > Friday, February 12, 1999 10:26 AM > RE: 4 rounds, 16 rounds or 64 rounds > > > >[Text 2090326 from COM] > > > >On 10 Feb 1999, Sridhari dd wrote: > > > >> Do you have some evidence of this quotes being truth? > >> > >> > >> > >Dear Mataji > >PAMHO > >AGTSP > >It is obvious in the past Harikesa Prabhu has said something else about > >Prabhupadas chanting,what ever reason he has for saying differently now > >is not important.He has said many things that where offensive to Srila > >Prabhupada and it is very sad for those of us that were hisdisciples,like > >myself.We have known him for 2o years and never once heard him say that > in > the > >past.After he is not so bitter anymore he may come back to ISKCON > >,lets just please drop this painfull issue.The main thing is others saw > >Srila Prabhupada chant his 16 rounds or more. > > As the the acarya spreading the holy name all over the world,why should > >anyone believe he had less attraction for the holy name than a regular > devotee > >that chants 16 rounds.Only a madman will believe this ,and only a madman > wil > >suggest Srila Prabhupada did not chant 16 rounds. > >YS > >Payonidhi das > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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