Fall of the Jiva & OOP

[Guest guest]

On 23 Feb 1999, Vraja Kumara wrote:

 

My understanding is that the soul has been bound literally

> > eternally (not figuratively) from the perspective of ordinary material

> > time. And from the perspective of one of the other two phases time there

> > is an actual fall. This view seems consistent with Bhaktivinode's

> > statements in Jaiva dharma that the issue involves understanding about cit

> > and acit time and with Ravindrasvarupa's BTG essay where he says that the>

> story of the fall spans two types of time.

>

>

> When the living entity 'falls' from the spiritual sky, he may spend what

> seems like an eternity in the material ocean of blood, bones, pus, stool,

> mucus and bile.

>

> So, as you pointed out, the key is the different times in different

> locations. As there is no past or future in Vaikuntha, even if we come

down> here for millions of lifetimes, still, when we return back there, it is

as> if we have never been away. Hence 'no fall'.

 

As far as i understand, we *have* been here in (acit-kala) literally eternally

(not just that it "seems like an eternity" as you say), yet when we achieve

liberation we see that we were always in Vaikuntha in terms of the spiritual

standard time (cit-kala).

 

Ravindrasvarupa's essay is at http://www.rsdtm.com

 

> In this way we both 'fall' (according to material 3-phase time) and don't

> fall (according to eternal-present spiritual time). True, or not?

 

Even in material time(acit-kala), we have always been here literally. It is

presumably in that "subtle, relatively eternal time" that we fall:

 

Rangachar's "Introduction to Pancaratra" reads (my additions in ):

"Strictly speaking three kinds of Time are detailed:

(i) 'effected or gross time which plays no part until after the creation of

the tattvas.' <i.e. material time>

(ii) 'causal or subtle time which though relatively eternal is also created by

Aniruddha.'

(iii) 'Higher time existing in pure creation.'.... <i.e. spiritual time>

 

...the fall of the jiva from its resplendent glory... precedes time and is

thus beginningless. The bondage of the soul is also presumed to be

beginningless."

 

The fall precedes gross material time and did not occur in pure spiritual

time. Therefore, it seems to have occurred in the subtle-causal-relatively

eternal time created by Aniruddha, based on the above passage.

 

Gerald Surya