A FRIEND IN MAYA

[Guest guest]

Dear Nayana Ranjana Prabhu

PAMHO

AGTSP

>

>

> Krsna Katha is not meant for such persons.

 

why not he is also a devotee,without Krsna katha and Krsna Seva he has no

shelter

 

> Maya's kicks will bring him to his knees in due course of time. I have heard

> of a devotee who was having illicit sex inspite of spiritual master's

> warning him again & again. Ultimately he was forced to stop when he got

> AIDS.

 

Well there is many examples of illicit sex, so there is many to quote from,

but here we have someone that is trying.Just having illicit sex with his wife

does not garantie he will get AIDS obviously.But there are such examples,I

agree.

>

> A person can take the horse to the water to make him drink but it is upto

> the horse whether to drink the water or not. One can preach Krsna

> consciousness to a person in Maya if one's faith in KC is stronger then his

> faith in Maya and not vice versa.

 

Well he is telling me he might give up family life because he can handle

it,and just become a brahmacari,because he said when he was one he practised

strictly for 4 years of his KC.

>

> >It seems

> > that such association is just bad association, but "otherwise" he is

> > sincere in external preaching.

>

> What can he preach?

 

Well we have to give him credit for the many books he has distributed in 15

years of his KC,and trying to be KC.

 

Prabhupada said that one who has purity & practises

> himself, he can preach. Most probably he sees preaching & KC as a temporary

> way to escape & forget his material desires & sinful activities for some

> time. This is called 'escapism'. His so-called preaching is like the firing

> of blank bullets.

 

Well at least he has used it to escape temporarily from maya,now why not be

smart and encourage him to escape permanent from maya?I see such escapism as

bonafide.(where he fully escaped from maya,and not with one leg in maya's and

Krsna's camp)

 

>

> This proves that he is externally making a show of chanting, preaching etc.

> but deliberately & knowingly continuing with his sinful activities.

 

But he did not join like this so it is better to bring him back to the path of

bhakti.

 

Such a

> person is committing the most grievious seventh offense against the Holy

> Name and his association should be avoided at all costs what to speak of

> preaching to him.

 

I also sometimes thought like that in the past,but we distribute in the same

area every day there is no way I would not see him.He is making small steps of

improvement.I have faith Krsna will change him.

 

At the present moment he is more dangerous than an

> atheist.

 

Well it is a good point in terms of association.And well taken.Yesterday he

sold lots of books,and sincerly preached all day.So he is not unfavorabel, he

is favorabel, just his own mind sometimes becomes his worst enemy.Like

Bilvamangala Thakura had some serious problems in the beginning of his KC.We

have to be patient.See at least he is not in saffron, going to prostitutes in

Bombay as some socalled brahmacaries in the early eighties had problem

with(when they did their lifemembership collection).Two wrongs does not make

one right..However I must disagree with you...on this point.As I do have the

discrimination ability and some KC strength he does not influence me

negatively.

 

Such a person is called 'dharmadhvaji'- pretender or sahajiya -

> someone who takes devotional service cheaply.

 

That is his tendency,that is why he started to associate with Narayana

Maharaja for a bit ,till I preached him out of it.

 

Such association should be

> given up as recommended by Lord Caitanya, BVT and all previous acaryas.

 

I fully understand why you would do like this.However I preach to the fallen

also.And have faith in Krsna's complete power to change especially struggeling

devotees hearts.

 

> He should never be allowed to stay in the temple otherwise he will effect

> others with his sinning mentality.

 

Well his idea is to stay there and give up sinning,nothing wrong with that.

>

>

> At present he is knowingly breaking the reg. principles of KC what to talk

> of following brahmacari life. So most probably the book will be have zero or

> no value. It is just sense gratification that he says he wants to read the

> book. This anartha is called 'utsahamayi'. I will do that, I will do this

> but one has no determination. He can never change as long as he keeps

> justifying his wrong actions and dosen't accept that he is doing what he

> should not do.

 

You are being very hard,and not giving him any change of rectification.This is

a typical ISKCON disease.Like Harikesa Prabhu, if

he had been given a change to enter the grhastha ashrama without condemnation,

then he might have stayed.Of course there is many issues in his case also.But

my point is,we want to save people,not kill them by forcing them out.According

to the chopping idea we may get rid of the 3/4 of ISKCON.Sometimes the

innocent get thrown in the chopper too.

It has happened to me many times.What I mean to say there mey be false

accusations and we then mistreat devotees,and thus become involved in vaisnava

aparadha.

 

One can only start preaching to someone who accepts his

> mistake and not keep on justifying it. That is when Krsna started to preach

> to Arjuna.

 

Admitedly he is not surrender like Arjuna,but I won't pray to Yamaharajas dogs

to eat him up.

>

> > He is initiated and his guru is in good standing,but his guru is

> > aloof to help him.And I find this frustrating,very frustrating.

>

> Why do you find this frustrating? Just like if the guru acts impiously

> against Krsna & the Vaisnavas and is materially motivated, he can be given

> up by the disciple, similarly if the disciple breaks the promises taken at

> the time of the initiation, why should the guru keep on accepting the

> responsibility for his sins. It is a two-way mutual contract, not just one

> way. The guru promises to take us back to Godhead provided we follow his

> instructions.

 

Actually this idea of accepting to may disciples I find the problem in this

issue.Just accepting someone as disciple and not getting into his heart to

rectifie him,is simply neglect on behalf of such a guru.It is a lazy

mentality.But obviously he is also not revealing his mind to get the proper

doses of chastisement.So he is a maha rascal.

 

>

> By the way you can also make friends with so many other innocent people who

> are willing to listen to you and keep on praying for this friend (like you

> said) who will most probably have to learn by the hard way because he is not

> taking your good advice.

 

We do have to distinquish between the innocent the karmi in the street and a

devotee that has attemted for 15 years,to not make such a distinction is a

mistake.This is why in ISKCON sometimes we just make new devotees and say to

hell with the older devotees.This is no solution,but a lazy way to not face

the persons problems,Thus it is easy to use the philosophy in a

noncompasionate way,in the name of avoiding bad association.

>

> And plus you can always continue giving us the nectar of Krsna Katha as you

> usually do. Please consider us also your friends.

 

You are certainly a friend and I have seen you and your friends in Bombay

distribute many books there,so that is my real friends, I especially like

surrendered devotees in the bookdistribution mission.I took the time to write

down the Caitanya astakaliya lila ,with you in mind as you was especially

interested.I will try my best to contribute some nectar to this

conference,when I have time.The sankirtana busy season starts here from March

15th to June 15th.

Please offer a prayer to Radha RasiBihari I may never forget Thier Lordships

lotusfeet,and always remember Them.

>

YS

Payonidhi das