Srila Prabhupada on the origin of the jiva

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On 23 Mar 1999, Jahnu das wrote:

 

Personally I just take it from Srila

> Prabhupada. He seemed to favor that we fell from Krishnas

> pastime. That this is not in accordance with the followers of

> Ramanuja, Madhvacarya, Kundali, Satyanarayan (the

> grand-disciple), or the Babajis at Radhakund, doesn't concern me

> or worry me the least. I stick to Srila Prabhupada's version.

> Some things, because we cannot know them, we have to accept

> blindly from the authorities. If the authories differ on a

> certain subject we have to pick the authority we want to listen

> from. I have picked Srila Prabhupada.

 

One problem here is that all authorities agree, implying that Sri Vyasadeva

and his pure devotee Srila Prabhupada also agree: The English translations of

Vedanta sutra and its commentaries of Sri Shankaracharya, Shri Nimbarkacharya

(and his disciple Srinivasacharya), Ramanujacharya (in at least 3 of his four

Vedanta commentaries) and our own Baladeva Vidyabhusana are all consistent

with each other on Vedanta 2.1.35. Furthermore, the famed Madhva writer BNK

Sharma in his Brahma-sutras and its Principle Commentaries also indicates that

Shri Madhvacarya (in his multiple Vedanta commentaries) agrees with the above

acharyas (although Madhva adds a unique twist to it). (I am unaware of

Vallabha's views, and I doubt Baladeva Vidyabhhusana contradicts himself in

his summary of his own Vedanta commentary)

 

If anyone of these acharyas differed from another on this point, they or their

disciples would have raised hell against the other school, as they have about

other points of difference.

 

So if practically all Vaishnava sampradaya acharyas agree on a certain point

along with the chief opponent Sri Shankaracharya and even with our own

Baladeva Vidyabhusana, it stands to reason that the incarnation of Lord

Krishna, Srila Vyasadeva also taught the same.

 

I do not think Srila Prabhupada would ever contradict Srila Vyasadeva and all

the major Vedanta commentators. They all provide parallel explanations, so how

could anyone diverge from a point that all Vedantists agree upon? To introduce

a new idea, one needs to show proofs from The Bhagavad-Gita, Upanisads and

Vedanta sutra.

 

All the pro-fall quotes from Srila Prabhupada's books and elsewhere can

be *easily* seen as referring to a "fall" in higher dimensional time, an act

which is occurring perpetually not at a particular prehistoric date. In fact

Bhaktivinoda Thakura hints at this at the *very*beginning* of his discussion

of this issue: Specifically he warns about the potential for confusion about

the different types of time, which I believe is at the heart of the entire

Jiva Fall issue:

 

 

"The time and space as you feel in the material world are different from the

time and space of the chit world. The time of the mundane world is divided

into three periods, past, present and future; whereas the time in the

chit-world is ever present as undivided. All the events relating to chit are

conceived of as present. Whatever we describe is under the jurisdiction of

material time and space; so while we say - ' the jivas were created', ' the

jivas then were fastened by maya', 'the chit-world

was revealed', 'there is no function of maya in the constitution of jivas, but

that of chit,- then there is the influence of material time over our

statement; the sort of description is inevitable in this fastened condition of

ours. For this reason, in all our descriptions relating to jivas and chit, we

cannot get rid of the influence of the mundane time,- the past, the present

and the future come of themselves into them. While having a conception of the

inner meaning of such descriptions, the truly discriminating judges conceive

of the application of the ever present time.

 

"My darling, you should be very cautious while deliberating over these things

and feel the presence of chit, having thrown off the unavoidable

detestableness of words. All the Vaishnavas say that the jiva

souls have been fastened by maya for the forgetfulness of their own nature,

but they all know that though the jivas are eternal entities, they are of two

kinds, viz. eternally fastened and eternally free.

Such statements are due to the human intelligence being subject to errors and

omissions. But a sedate person forms a conception of the transcendental truth

by means of chit-samadhi. Our statements are material, whatever we speak about

is interspersed with the dirt of words, but you will feel what the truth is.

Argumentations have no footing here, for it is vain to apply them to

inscrutable truths. I know that you will not be able to realize this truth in

a moment. The more you culture about

chit affairs the more will be evident the difference of chit from matter. Your

body is material, all the functions of the body are material, but in reality,

you are not matter, you are atomic chit (sentiment)

entity. The more you know about yourself, the more will you feel your

essential nature to be superior to the material world. You will not be

benefited, if only, I tell you this or you hear it from me. The

more you rouse up your chit character by means of the culture of Harinama, the

better will you get a conception of the chit world. The speech and the mind,

both have their origin relating to matter; they

cannot touch the chit affairs by great exertions. The Sruti said: "From whom

(Brahman) words recede back with the mind without getting Him." I advise you

not to ask the decision about this of any one; feel it within yourself. I only

give you the hint."

 

Thus to say Srila Prabhupada said the jivas actually "fell" in linear material

time is to impose the "dirt of words" (soiled by material time) onto Srila

Prabhupada's words and then to teach that as Srila Prabhupada's position. That

would be inconsistent with Sri Bhaktivinoda's instruction. Rather we should

understand that there are different types of time and try to recognize which

type of time "the fall" occured in.

 

This Magazine of the Hare Krishna Movement (Back to Godhead) has a nice

article by Ravindra-svarupa dasa (an important GBC in America) (essay located

at http://rsdtm.com under "publications") which says: "Similarly, we think of

our rebellion against God as a distant, aboriginal event, one that took place

long ago and far away, in that world. In truth, that single act of rebellion

is perpetual; that very same aboriginal event is taking place right now. We

have only to look into our hearts to confirm this."

 

> It seems to me that the GBC

> resolution on the subject is in accordance with Srila

> Prabhupada's version.

>

 

I agree that the GBC resolution, as quoted by Vijay and Susarla, agrees with

Srila Prabhupada and all previous acharyas.

 

ys

Gerald Surya