Chanting & hearing leads one to Goloka Vrndabana

[Guest guest]

Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that

of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance

and *of *the *eternal* [the *siddha-deha *and *its *rasa(s)*]

there is *no* *change*. This they have concluded by

studying the nature of both. (Gita 2.16)

 

Haribol

 

Some sahajiyas may say that a rasa begins at the time of siddha pranali, when

the guru basically assigns a role to the disciple, a new role which becomes

his svarupa. The problem with sahajiyaism is that this ignores very basic

philosophical principles as explained by the Lord in the verses of Chapter

TWO(!*!) of Bhagavad-gita, what to speak of other scriptures.

 

When the Lord says a soul cannot be created or changed, it refers to its

qualities, forms, rasas etc. A soul and its siddha deha(s) (and corresponding

rasas) are identical. There is no such thing as a soul apart from those

dehas and relationships etc, just as there is no such thing as Krishna apart

from His blue form, associates, rasas etc. Therefore, the introduction of a

new rasa into a soul is not a logical, what to speak of bona fide, idea.

 

The philosophy of devotional service is consistent with the statements of

sruti, smrti, and Purana etc. If a statement is not so consistent, then it is

a disturbance to society.

 

The sruti (Vedanta 4.1.1-2) states that at the time of liberation, all that

occurs is that the karma and ignorance are removed, and the soul exhibits its

own form.

 

The Purana, SB 2.10.xx, says the same thing: muktir hitvanyatha rupam

sva-rupena vyavasthitih "Liberation is the permanent situation of the form of

the living entity after he gives up the changeable gross and subtle material

bodies."

 

The smrti, Bhagavad-gita, also says the same thing: (Note the substitution of

soul for siddha deha is justifiable from a Vaishnava point of view-since a

spiritual entity and his spiritual body, qualities, relationships, etc are

identical)

 

12 Never was there a time when [My spiritual body] did not exist, nor [your

siddha-deha and its rasas], nor [those of] all these kings; nor in the future

shall any of [our siddha-dehas and their rasas] cease to be.

 

16 Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent

[the material body] there is no endurance and *of *the *eternal* [the

*siddha-deha *and *its *rasa(s)*] there is *no* *change*. This they have

concluded by studying the nature of both.

 

20 For the [siddha-deha and its rasa(s)] there is *neither* *birth* nor death

at any time. [The siddha-deha and its rasa(s) have] not come into being,

*does *not *come *into *being, and *will *not *come *into *being. [The

siddha-deha] is *unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval.

 

21 ..[the siddha-deha and its rasa(s)] is indestructible, eternal, unborn

and *immutable*...

 

24 [The siddha-deha and its rasa(s) are] unbreakable and insoluble, and can

be neither burned nor dried. [The siddha-deha and its rasa(s) are]

everlasting, present everywhere, *unchangeable*, immovable and *eternally

*the *same.

 

25 It is said that the [siddha-deha and its rasa(s)] is invisible,

inconceivable and *immutable*.

 

29 Some look on the [siddha-deha and its rasa(s)] as amazing, some describe

him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after

hearing about him, cannot understand [the siddha deha and its rasa(s)] at

all.

 

The application of these verses to the soul's siddha dehas and rasas is

natural, because the soul is nothing other than that (the visesa principle).

There is no God or soul apart from their specific properties.

 

Therefore, the above statement from CC must be seen in light of these

references.

The idea that sravana and kirtana give every soul (regardless of his

constitutional position) a spot in Goloka is just a variation on the sahajiya

idea, and it also glaringly contradicts the verses of Bhagavad-gita, Vedanta,

Srimad Bhagavatam. Therefore, it is fit to be discarded as subtle

sahajiyaism.

 

The above CC, when understood in terms of the Bhagavad-gita etc, says that by

hearing and chanting, some souls achieve Goloka and some achieve Vaikuntha.

In fact, the purport of Srila Prabhupada gives a broader description of

liberation (in Vaikuntha and Goloka) than might be construed from the verse

itself.

 

ys

Gerald Surya

 

In a message dated 7/26/99 12:43:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Nayana-ranjana (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes:

 

<<

You can attain Krsna's lotus feet only in Goloka Vrndabana because Krsna is

present there not in other Vaikuntha planets which is confirmed in the Cc:

Cc Madhya Lila 19.154

tabe yaya tad-upari `goloka-vrndavana'`krsna-carana'-kalpa-vrkse kare arohana

"Being situated in one's heart and being watered by sravana-kirtana, the

bhakti creeper grows more and more. In this way it attains the shelter of

the desire tree of the lotus feet of Krsna, who is eternally situated in the

planet known as Goloka Vrndavana, in the topmost region of the spiritual

sky.

(Note that it is said by sravana & kirtana not raganuga bhakti)

>>

[Guest guest]

> Therefore, the introduction of a

> new rasa into a soul is not a logical, what to speak of bona fide, idea.

 

You just don't seem to understand. You are repeating the same thing again,

which nobody is questioning.

 

> The idea that sravana and kirtana give every soul (regardless of his

> constitutional position) a spot in Goloka is just a variation on the

> sahajiya idea,

 

Who said every soul? Here the discussion is about the soul who comes in

contact (through hari-nama-sankirtan) with the original Supreme Personality

of Godhead, Lord Caitanya who appeared in this Kali yuga. Such a fortunate

living entity gets the association of Lord Caitanya in the spiritual world.

And Caitanya Mahaprabhu happens to be in Goloka, the highest planet in

Vaikuntha. Thus perfected living entity expands himself as a associate of

Lord Caitanya while simultaneously rendering service to his istadeva in his

respective planet. This means that his spiritual form in Navadvipa, Goloka

is also his constitutional position. Like for Sri Murari Gupta and many

others we can understand that he is present in the spiritual world both as

Hanuman & Murari Gupta and both can be considered his constitutional

position.

 

This is confirmed in Cc Madhya 7.129

 

kabhu na badhibe tomara visaya-taranga

punarapi ei thani pabe mora sanga"

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu further advised the brahmana Kurma, "If you follow

this instruction, your materialistic life at home will not obstruct your

spiritual advancement. Indeed, if you follow these regulative principles, we

will again meet here, or, rather, you will never lose My company."